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• Making decisions – Decisions aren't hard — it's the moments after that are. Whenever I make decisions, I don't think about now, I think about eventually. How will this feel then, maybe a year from now. When it's real, not raw. When the complications around the concern have cleared, and distance has done its job.
• Goal setting - 37 Signals does not set long-term goals. Jason (as the CEO) helps set the direction and they work in six-week sprints.
  • Think, "What am I optimizing for?"
  • 37 Signals does not have a board of directors or advisors.
• Is it more helpful to have a chip on your shoulder to prove someone wrong or to be motivated to prove your supporters right?
  • Both can be useful.
• Keys to a great partnership? Jason works with his co-founder, David Heinemeier Hansson (a previous guest on The Learning Leader Show).
  • Mutual admiration
  • Have complementary skills (Jason is design, DHH is engineering)
• A company is essentially two things: a group of people and a collection of decisions. How those people make these decisions is the art of running a business.
• Maxims:
  • Decide what you're going to do this week, not this year.
  • Whenever you can, swap "Let's think about it" for "Let's decide on it."
  • Momentum fuels motivation.
• Just ship it. You'll figure out what needs to be fixed as you go.
• Mark Zuckerberg is coming into his own... There are lots of reasons for it. One of them (maybe)? He's working out, in great shape, fighting MMA style, and surrounding himself around others who are doing the same.
• All leaders should have a writing practice. Hopefully, you don't feel the need to send it to a lawyer or a comms team before publishing it or sharing it with the people you're leading. Write like you talk. Write what's in your head. Think about what you want to say, and say it.
• You never know who is watching: Jeff Bezos sat in the front row for one of Jason's keynotes and was so impressed that he asked to invest in his company. When you have the guts to put your thoughts and beliefs out into the world, it can work as a magnetic effect to attract people to you. It's refreshing to hear Jason talk about one of the core qualities he loves most about Jeff: he is overwhelmingly optimistic. The world is built by optimists.
• You don't create culture. It happens. A company's culture is a 50-day moving average. It's what you've been collectively doing as a company over the last 50 days. How do you treat people? Who have you hired (or fired) and why?
• Company off-site events:
  • They do two per year (one in the United States, and one abroad).
  • Members of Jason's team meticulously design them.
  • One day of business followed by time for the team to hang out, do activities together, eat together, and bond.
• Does Jason have plans to sell 37 Signals? "No, that would be the demise of the company."

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Notes on this conversation with Cal Newport

• (Obsess over quality). Jewel obsessed over the quality of her work so much that she turned down a 1m dollar offer (even while living out of her car) because she needed time to make her work excellent. Obsess over the quality of what you produce, even if this means missing opportunities in the short term. Leverage the value of these results to gain more and more freedom in your efforts over the long term.
• Benjamin Franklin – He hired David Hall to create time freedom. He needed time to think, time to experiment. He gave up money in the short term to gain time freedom to create something for the future. There's no guarantee that it would pay off, but we all should think about how we can make investments that our future self would thank us for.
• Have fewer concurrent active projects. Instead of focusing on 10 things, focus on 2 or 3. Make it public. Share with your team. Be known as a leader who focuses on a few important objectives instead of 10 of them.
• Match your space to your work – Be in nature, Lin-Manuel Miranda wrote Hamilton in the Morris-Jumel Mansion, the oldest surviving house in Manhattan (served as headquarters for George Washington during the Battle of Harlem Heights, and home of Aaron Burr when he was Vice President), Neil Gaiman built a spartan, 8 sided writing shed that sits on low stilts and offers views on all sides of endless trees.
• Do Fewer Things:
  • Limit Daily Goals – Cal learned this from his doctoral adviser at MIT. She was incredulous about Cal's attempts to switch back and forth between multiple academic papers. She preferred to get lost in a single project at a time. Cal was convinced that the slowness of working on just one important thing per day would hold him back.
  • Work at a Natural Pace
    • Don't rush your most important work. Allow it instead to unfold along a sustainable timeline, with variations in intensity over different timescales, and, when possible, executed in settings conducive to brilliance.
    • Slow productivity emphatically rejects the performative rewards of unwavering urgency. Grand achievement is built on the steady accumulation of modest results over time, and you should give your efforts the breathing room and respect required to make them part of a life well lived, not an obstacle to it.
  • Obsess over Quality
    • By focusing intensely on the small number of activities that matter most to our jobs, you can find both the motivation and justification for slowness.
    • Improve your taste. It's in the uneasy distance between our taste and our ability that improvement happens – aka in our drive to meet our own high standards.
    • To combat the potential paralysis of perfectionism, think about giving yourself enough time to produce something great, but not unlimited time–focus on creating something good enough to catch the attention of people whose taste you care about but relieve yourself of the need to forge a masterpiece.
    • Gather with people who share similar professional ambitions. When you combine the opinions of multiple practitioners, more possibilities and nuance emerge, and there's a focusing effect that comes from performing for a crowd.
• It's easy to mistake "do fewer things" for "accomplish fewer things" – but this understanding is backward. We work roughly the same number of hours each week regardless of the size of our task lists. Having more commitments simply increases the hours lost to overhead tax – the coordinating activities, such as meetings and email, needed to manage what's on your plate.
  • The pandemic "zoom apocalypse," in which many knowledge workers found themselves in Zoom meeting all day long, was caused in part by reaching a state in which overhead tax crowded out almost any time to actually complete tasks.
  • Doing fewer things, in other words, makes us better at our jobs–not only psychologically but also economically and creatively.
• The Overhead Tax – A key property of overhead tax is that it tends to expand to fill as much time as it's provided. So long as a project is something that you've committed to, and it's not yet complete, it will tend to generate a continual tax in the form of check-in meetings, impromptu email conversations, and plain old mental space.
• Knowledge workers have no agreed-upon definition of what "productivity" actually means–incredibly unusual compared to other areas of our economy.
  • Lacking a precise definition they defaulted to a crude approximation: pseudo-productivity – using visible activity as a proxy for useful professional accomplishment.
• Cal argues that the current burnout crisis is due, in part, to the combination of pseudo-productivity with more recent advances in mobile computing and digital communication that made unlimited work available at all times in all places. The result was an impossible internal tug of war, where there was always more to do, and never any hope of catching up. Busy exhaustion itself became your primary signal of usefulness.
• Slow productivity doesn't ask that you extinguish ambition. Humans derive great satisfaction from being good at what they do and producing useful things.
• Cal revisits the popular narrative of Jane Austen's writing career; a closer look at her life reveals a powerful case study for a slower approach. Busy Jane Austen was neither happy nor producing memorable work, while unburdened Jane Austen, writing contently at a quiet cottage, after her family decided to withdraw from a busy social calendar, transformed English literature.
• The goal of Slow Productivity is to propose an entirely new way for you, your small business, or your large employer to think about what it means to get things done; to rescue knowledge work from its increasingly untenable freneticism, and rebuild it to enable you to create things you're proud of without grinding yourself down along the way; and to offer a more humane and sustainable way to integrate professional efforts into a life well lived.

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• Never Miss a Day – In the summer, going into Paul's freshman year of high school, he was at a lacrosse camp at Loyola University… At the end of the morning session, an all-time coaching legend, Tony Seaman spoke to the group. He told them he could guarantee that they could earn a college scholarship. All they had to do? "Take 100 shots per day. Here's the catch. You can never miss a day. No excuses." What are your 100 shots a day?
• Goal Setting – Most people don't set goals because the act alone is both a major and personal step in the direction of commitment, and it invites hope, fear, and the possibility of regret.
  • Focus on what you can control – John Wooden was 5'10. Below average for a basketball player. He was really good at "understanding the things at which he had no control and things over which I had some control."
  • Let Go of Outcomes – Archery master Awa Kenzo told his students to pay no attention to the target. Success and failure come from the same place, so that's where the archer should point all of their attention: not on the outcome, but the effort.
• Therapy– Dr. Lindsey Hoskins once said that when we hurt someone we love, it's because we fear disconnection from that someone. We hope that by lashing out, they'll show us love, and as a result, we'll feel safer in the relationship."
• The Difference Between Self-Promotion and Passion - "I'm not going to convince you to like what I do. I'm going to show you how much I love what I do."
• You won't achieve ambitious goals if you don't set ambitious goals.
• The legendary Michael Ovitz shotgun pitch to Coca-Cola. He and his team outworked the competition, flew in a day early, practiced in the actual room the pitch would take place, bought new suits, and over-delivered during the pitch meeting. Their competitors took the meeting for granted, flew in the morning of, and didn't perform. Michael and his team won the $300m contract and earned the business for years to come.
• A true champion is intensely focused on the things they can control.
• Being coachable is rare—it's being curious, eager, self-aware, and ambitious.
• Discover and harness your unique learning style. What might appear as an inability or perceived disadvantage could be your greatest asset in mastering your chosen field. For example, Paul grew up with a learning difference called Auditory Processing Disorder.
• The only way to learn from failures is to feel it, study them, make adjustments, a new commitment, and put it behind you.
• The Voice No One Else Hears – Performance psychologist Jim Loehr has worked with some of the top athletes in the world. He has them wear a microphone during a competition, and he asks them to honestly articulate what the voice in their head says and thinks. Whatever the circumstances, Loehr said he asks, "Is this how I would speak to someone I deeply care about? Or, if I were speaking to someone I deeply cared about, what would I say?"
  • "I've been here before."
  • "I've taken 35,000 shots."
  • Rebound... Bounce back.
• Paul loves the "up and down" statistic in golf. It refers to a golfer recovering from a bad shot and still making a par on the hole. In life, it's all about how you choose to respond.
• Paul's Brother, Mike - "One of my favorite chapters in this book is about planting "little acorns." (p.174) Had it not been for the biggest acorn in the family, who left his job to build the PLL with me... well, I'd just be a retired athlete, continuing the pursuit of my next professional life. Thank you for everything, Mike."

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• The 5 Journal Prompts - What am I grateful for? Where am I winning? What will I let go of today? What does my ideal day look like? What needs to be said at the end?
• Avoid the old person flaw – Sometimes you meet an old person and they spend hours in conversation living in the past. Don't ever believe that your best days are behind you. Have a "never peak" mindset with an upward trajectory… Always.
• Go see people in person - In Italy they say, "We are not friends until we've eaten together."
• Release the energy vampires – "We feel guilt when we no longer want to associate with old friends and colleagues who haven't changed. The price, and marker, of growth." - Naval Ravikant
• Stop salting your food before you taste it.
• Happiness is an inside job.
• See Solitude as the new status symbol.
• A sweaty workout is never a silly idea.
• Ask Yourself the 10,000 Dinner Question: That's how many dinners you can expect to share with your chosen mate. Does that thought thrill you, or give you the shivers? If the latter, you may not have found the one.
• Be a Perfect Moment Maker: Focus on making magical memories with those we care about so we feel rich when we're old.
• Never be a prisoner of your past. Become the architect of your future. You will never be the same.
• "Your "I CAN" is more important than your IQ."
• "Everything is created twice, first in the mind and then in reality."
• "You can't make someone feel good about themselves until you feel good about yourself."
• "Investing in yourself is the best investment you will ever make. it will not only improve your life, it will improve the lives of all those around you."
• Start a mastermind alliance… For years, every Friday at 6am, Robin met with his mastermind partner at a coffee shop where they'd chat for 2 hours.
• "Success occurs in the privacy of the soul." - Rick Rubin – Success is about YOUR definition, not whatever society says it should be. It's about understanding your purpose, your values, and the critical behaviors to match those values. The cool part about it, is you get to define it. That isn't easy work, but it's worth it.
• Ski instructors aren't rich, "but we have a rich life."

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The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk

Episode #579: David Perell - Setting The Standard, Cultivating Your Taste, Pursuing Excellence, Becoming a Sloganeer, Always Working/Never Working, & Lessons From a Mysterious Billionaire

Notes:

• Set the standard – "It's your job to have the highest quality standards of anybody you work with. Every day, you'll face pressure to lower them. Don't do it. If you can set a high standard and simply maintain it, you'll do very well for yourself."
• Have a high-quality bar. Do three things:
  • Define it: Clearly state the standards. (read The 11 Laws of Showrunning)
  • Maintain it: This is hard to do.
  • Raise it: Keep pushing.
• You need to define what quality looks like. Set the true north.
• David worked with a coach to establish his core values. And he was going to narrow it down to five and the coach said, "Nope, it's just one. It's the one that everything in your life orbits around... It's The Pursuit of Excellence.
• The biggest piece of low-hanging fruit for leaders is getting funnier:
  • Nobody trains themselves to get funnier though. It's strangely taboo. That's why it's such an opportunity.
  • "Laughter is the sound of comprehension." Say something memorable. Humor is memorable.
• A good way to think... Deconstruct something funny. David spends a lot of time understanding why Theo Von is so funny.
• The key to excellent storytelling: a moment of change. Conflict and suspense carry stories.
• Robert Caro writing the LBJ books... "What would I see if I was there." He moved to where LBJ lived to see what it was like to be there.
• How to cultivate taste:
  • Make a list of things you love/hate.
  • Look for things you love (but aren't supposed to), and things you hate (but are supposed to love).
  • Make things. Don't be a passive consumer. Be a connoisseur. Be discerning about what you consume.
  • Amor Tolles - History is bad for knowing what's good now.
    • Consume old things.
  • Museums - Pay attention to what elicits a reaction. Why is it a 10? Why is it a 1? What do you love? What do you hate? Why?
• Archegos is David's favorite Greek word, and it gets to the heart of good leadership.
  • Four meanings: Author, founder, pioneer, leader
  • America's founding fathers are the canonical example
• Lessons from a mysterious billionaire mentor:
  • David asks very specific questions, listens, and takes lots of notes.
  • When meeting with a mentor, show up with energy and specific questions. They are tired of hearing the boring generic questions. Be specific.
  • The mentor talks 98% of the time and David just types what he says. He now has 18,000 words worth of notes. Some lessons:
    • CEOs are Sloganeers: CEOs shouldn't write strategy memos. They should drive slogans.
      • Three lines. Three words each. (Bezos: Focus on the Customer)
    • CEOs should tell the same stories over and over again, refining their pitch like a comedian.
      • Gauging reactions
      • Asking questions
      • Listening to push-back
      • Seeing what makes people's eyes light up
        • Your message is only landing once people start making fun of you.
• Good goal in life: Always working, never working
  • Story from Patrick O'Shaughnessy. He was asked how much time he spent preparing. Initially, he said, "not much." Then he thought for a while, and said, "I'm preparing all the time. My whole life is preparing to ask these questions."

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The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk

• Create surplus value - What can we do to give more than we take? "The key is to figure out what you can do that others can't or are unwilling to do. Hard work is a talent. Curiosity is a talent. Patience and empathy are talents."
  • "Helping others makes me feel strong."
• Scott's recent experience with Ketamine Therapy - "It clarified my thinking. It's helped me stop keeping score. It also made me grateful for my wife. Did you ever get a gift when you were a kid that you weren't expecting and you couldn't afford it? Something you never imagined having." I got a $45 Banh skateboard from my mom's boyfriend Terry. It was a moment of sheer surprise and joy. My wife kept popping in my head and I kept thinking, god I get to hang out with this person, get to have kids with them, get to build a life with her. It was this overwhelming feeling of wonderful joy and surprise. It was very clarifying and rewarding for me."
• "You Gotta Ask" - Scott met his wife at the Raleigh Hotel pool in Miami. He saw her from a distance and promised himself that he wouldn't leave the pool without introducing himself to her first. In order to do anything of significance in your life, you must take an uncomfortable risk." Scott is married to Beata Galloway, a real estate developer born in Germany. Together, they have two sons. One of them has the middle name, Raleigh.
• Why Crying is Important - "It informs what's important to you."
• Why Scott uses crude humor - It's used to connect with people. And people are either afraid or not able to do it.
• When Scott was 13… One of his mom's boyfriends handed him two crisp 100-dollar bills after he asked him about stocks. Terry (his mom's boyfriend) told him "Go buy some stock at one of those fancy brokers in the village." Once there, Scott met a mentor named Cy Gordner who helped him learn about the markets.
• Show up when it matters — Michael Bloomberg's policy. "If a friend gets a promotion, there is no need to call. You'll get dinner with them at some point. But if a friend gets fired, I have dinner with them that night in a public place where everybody can see me. Because I remember when I got fired from Solomon Brothers — I can tell you every person that called me. That meant something. When I was made partner? I have no recollection of that whatsoever."
• Last year Scott had 340 inbound speaking requests. He accepted 30 of them. His average rate is $112,000 per speech.
• "The stimulus that attracted my attention with the most urgency was money, not as a means of establishing economic security, but to feed my addiction: affirmation from others."
• The role of Luck - Being born in America in the 1960s and two (most importantly) Scott's mom. Though she was raised in a household with little affection, she couldn't control herself with her son. "For me, affection was the difference between hoping someone thought I was wonderful or worthy and knowing it." (Emotional)
• Scott is a dynamic communicator: A turn of phrase is a way of expressing something, in writing or speech, that stands out in some particular way.
• One of the key indicators of long-term success is the "willingness to endure rejection." Whether this is walking up to a stranger at the Raleigh hotel, a cold-calling sales job, or asking people to be on your podcast.
• How to build wealth? Focus (mastery, find your talent), Stoicism (this is about saving more than you spend), Time ( 21 years with your money in low-cost index funds, you will earn 8 times your money), Diversification (Your kevlar). Once you earn some money, assume you are not Steve Ballmer or Mark Zuckerberg. Use a variety of investment vehicles. Going all on one company or asset class is not the optimal choice for most of us.

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The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk

• The ASK approach - Choose curiosity, make it a safe space to tell the truth, pose quality questions (that's a question that helps you learn something), LISTEN (check if you heard them right, rephrase), then reflect and connect - FOLLOW UP. Make sure the other person feels that you've listened to and heard them.
  • 1) Choose Curiosity to awaken your interest in new discoveries.
    • What can I learn from this person?
  • 2) Make it Safe for people to tell you hard things
    • Find the right context. Be vulnerable. Radiate Resilience.
  • 3) Pose Quality Questions so you can uncover what's most important
    • Questions that help you learn something. What do you really think?
  • 4) Listen to Learn, to hear what someone is really trying to tell you.
    • Request reactions... What holes are in my perspective?
  • 5) Reflect and Reconnect, so you take the right action based on what you've heard.
    • Update my thinking. Sifting through what we heard. What can I take away of value?
• What are the best questions to ask in an interview for a job:
  • As the interviewee, ask them what concerns they have about you? They're going to talk about these when you're not in the room. You might as well talk about them together when you're in there…
  • As the interviewer: Fast forward 1 year. There are two scenarios. 1, you crushed it. 2, You didn't. Tell the story of what happened in each of those scenarios…
• What did Jeff learn from his work as a magician?
  • Magic trains you to hold your cards close to your chest, that's what makes the illusion work…He dreamed (still does) of someone asking him, so what do you think Jeff? He's held back so much because he wanted people to ask him what he thought… It's like he needed permission.
• When pollsters asked Americans, "If you could have any superpower you wanted, what would you pick?" Two answers tied for the number 1 spot. Reading other people's minds and time travel.
  • Asking helps you read people's minds.
• Key learning from Chris Argyris:
  • How smart people fail to learn... They don't ask.
• A child asks 25-50 questions per hour. An adult. A tiny fraction of that. Curiosity goes away as we age if we're not intentional about it.
• "We're all stuck inside our own certainty loops."
• Leadership hiring must-haves...
  • Alignment with the mission
  • Core values
  • Track record
  • A learner
• Learning design – How to make your next leadership retreat as impactful as possible? ASK the participants to help you co-create the event.
• We often miss out on goals, opportunities, and relationships because we don't know how to ask the right question, in the right way. Yet this critical strength can be learned, and transform your career, organization, and relationships.
• Career and Life advice: You don't have to have it all figured out. WHO matters more than WHAT.

Full show notes at www.LearningLeader.com

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My guest: Scott Belsky co-founded Behance in 2006 and served as its CEO for six years. Behance was acquired by Adobe in 2012. Since then he has had a variety of roles with the company and is currently Adobe's Chief Strategy Officer, and EVP of Design & Emerging Products. He's also the author of two best-selling books, The Messy Middle and Making Ideas Happen. Scott holds a bachelor's degree from Cornell University and an MBA from Harvard Business School.

• Hiking > Beach - You're only able to recollect experiences with enough friction to add texture to time as it passes. time spent doing the unexpected and/or being challenged is time with texture. Ultimately, in our dying breath, the more experiences in our lives with texture, the more of our lives we will actually remember and the longer we will feel we have lived.
  • What adds texture to time? A challenge.
• Feeling unrushed - Feeling unrushed (so simple, yet so hard) is indeed such a luxury; one I still fail to achieve.
• Persona-Led Growth - People are more likely to share what people say than what companies say. Modern "PR strategy" should amplify the voice of actual builders, embrace personality rather than dull it out, and aspire for more real-time updates vs. major moments.
• How to raise kids to become great adults?
  • "model hard work"
  • Say, "This is the hard work." Manufacture hardship.
  • Regulate emotions. Big feelings, little bodies.
• Why Scott enjoys working at Adobe... He's a mission-driven entrepreneur. Progress begets progress.
• Prototype = Show, not tell.
  • A prototype is worth a hundred meetings, and almost all meetings that aren't grounded with a prototype are a waste of time (or worse). A prototype immediately surfaces gaps in logic or business concerns. It is the fastest way to drive alignment.
  • "A prototype prompts decisiveness"
  • "It's a hot knife through the butter of bureaucracy."
• Why Scott writes a Substack newsletter:
  • "I want to be part of the creator platform."
  • Writing clarifies thinking
  • It's important to stay close to the action. Writing works as a forcing function to do that.
• Scott has benefited greatly from running every day. It's important to push yourself mentally and physically. "There's no option to stop."
• What's the most important element of leadership? "Empathy. It's a shortcut for overcoming challenges."
• "You're either part of the living or part of the dying." Scott's aunt Arlis Aron. Fought stage 4 cancer for 15 years. She always focused on living, her garden, breakfast, and traveling. "Decide if you want to live less or live more."
  • "Every day is a standalone canvas."

Our new book, The Score That Matters, is out TODAY (March 26, 2024). Here's the link: https://amzn.to/4citmTL

Thank you for your support!

Full show notes at www.LearningLeader.com

The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk

Ryan Hawk is the creator and host of The Learning Leader Show, a top-rated business podcast that focuses on learning from the most effective leaders in the world. He speaks regularly to Fortune 500 companies; works with teams and players in the NFL, NBA, MLB, and NCAA; and facilitates Leadership Circles to offer structured guidance and collaborative feedback to new and experienced leaders. Ryan has also built an online leadership school called The Learning Leader Academy. He is the author of Welcome to Management and The Pursuit of Excellence, lauded by Forbes magazine as "the best leadership book of 2020" and "the most dynamic leadership book of 2022," respectively.

Brook Cupps has been a high school basketball coach for more than 20 years, earning several Coach of the Year awards. His teams have won numerous conference, district, and regional championships, as well as Centerville High School's first-ever basketball state championship in 2021. In addition, he has spent the last eight years coaching grassroots basketball on the AAU circuits and helped guide the North Coast (Ohio) Blue Chips to national championships in 2014 and 2019. He publishes weekly essays on leadership and coaching on his site, Blue Collar Grit, and is the author of Surrender the Outcome.

• People love to keep score. Managers keep score of a range of business metrics: market share, revenue, profit margin, and growth rate. In our personal lives, social media has us keeping score by likes and followers.
• These external scores are outcome-driven and serve as proof of our success—money, fame, material possessions, wins—but this constant chase for more validation often leaves us feeling exhausted and empty.
• Offering both descriptive and prescriptive advice and anecdotes, The Score That Matters will help you unlock true fulfillment and happiness by discovering your purpose, identifying your values, creating critical behaviors, and living them faithfully every day in all aspects of your life.

Warren Buffett once said, "The big question about how people behave is whether they've got an Inner Scorecard or an Outer Scorecard. It helps if you can be satisfied with an Inner Scorecard."

And that's what The Score That Matters Is All About…

The inner scoreboard is about eliminating comparison with others and living in alignment with what's most important to you: your values and the behaviors to match those values.

If you want to stop comparing yourself to others, establish YOUR core values, and live in alignment with them (and I believe you should), then I think our book, The Score That Matters, will be useful for you.

In addition to that, our book, The Score That Matters, will help you

• Build trust with the important people in your lives (your family and the team you're leading at work)

• It will help you focus on your eulogy virtues instead of your resume virtues

• And we write about how you can build transformational relationships that will ultimately change your life for the better.

When I interviewed economics professor and best-selling author Tyler Cowen, I asked him why he chose to write his most recent book with someone else (after he previously had written his books by himself). He said, "If you have an opportunity to work with someone who is awesome and brilliant and who will cooperate with you, you should always do that. Drop everything and do that." Before this, I never thought I would write with someone else. It's too personal. However, I took Tyler Cowen's advice and I am so glad I did. Working on a book with one of your mentors is the ultimate tool for learning. I got to have long-form conversations (both in writing and in person) from someone who has figured out some of life's most challenging issues. When you meet Brook Cupps, you'll notice that he's incredibly comfortable in his own skin. He has ZERO need to get approval from anyone outside of his closest friends. He has his values, lives his values, and that's it. I think we would all be better off if we did that. In this book, you'll get the unique perspective of a teacher and a student. Brook plays the role of the teacher, and me the student. We wrote almost all of the book together and mixed in some parts labeled BC and RH when it was from each of our unique perspectives. After a lifetime of figuring these things out and 3 years working together to get the ideas out of our heads onto the page, our book, The Score That Matters is now available for you to read. If you've gotten any value from The Learning Leader Show over the past 9 years, I hope you decide to buy this book. I think it could change your life. Go to Amazon now and buy it. If you've already bought yourself a copy, go back to Amazon and buy another one or two for the people in your life you care about most. Start a book club, tell your friends, read this with your colleagues at work. Not only do I think it could change your life, but all of your friends too. Thank you for your support!

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The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk

574: Guy Kawasaki - Leadership Lessons From Steve Jobs, Learning How To Sell, Becoming a Chief Evangelist, and The 'Think Different' Philosophy

• "Feeling gratitude and not expressing it is like wrapping a present and not giving it." – William Arthur Ward
• In 1977, Guy enrolled in the UCLA Anderson School of Management, where he earned an MBA. While there, Guy also worked at a jewelry company, Nova Stylings. He said, "The jewelry business is a very, very tough business, tougher than the computer business... I learned a very valuable lesson: how to sell."
  • It's helpful to know that we are all in sales every day. Whether you think you're in sales or not… You are. You're selling yourself, your ideas, projects, products. It's useful to learn how to sell.
• Melanie Perkins, CEO of Canva (which is an amazing product and company)... "She's Steve Jobs with heart and soul. They are on a relentless pursuit of perfection."
• Guy's counting dots story… It started in 6th grade. A teacher pushed him to go to a private school. That led to him getting into Stanford. This is where he met Mike Boich, who ended up hiring him at Apple. Then getting asked to go on the TEDx stage with Jane Goodall… Guy has made the most of the good fortune in his life…
• Steve Jobs/Change Your Mind: Guy launched his tech career at Apple as the company's "chief evangelist," marketing the original Macintosh computer.
  • When Jobs first introduced the iPhone in 2007, it was a closed system — no one outside of Apple could create an app for it. Software developers had to use a Safari plugin to make their app work on the phone, as they weren't able to access the iPhone's system directly in order to ensure the phone's security. Just one year later, however, Jobs made a complete "180-degree reversal," The founder opened the iPhone system to the public after realizing how much more the device could offer customers with apps written by anyone with a good idea. "I learned the very valuable lesson that when you're doing something wrong when you're doing something sub-optimally, it's a sign of intelligence to change your mind."
• Throughout our conversation, Guy talks about being an evangelist, and the definition of that is to "bring the good news."
• Default to yes. Make yourself indispensable.
• Learn to say, "I'm sorry," and "I don't know."
• Guy shares a story about a disagreement he had with Steve Jobs and how that cost him millions of dollars… But he learned an important lesson from Steve that has impacted him ever since.