
Sign up to save your podcasts
Or


The Most Forbidden Technique is training an AI using interpretability techniques.
An AI produces a final output [X] via some method [M]. You can analyze [M] using technique [T], to learn what the AI is up to. You could train on that. Never do that.
You train on [X]. Only [X]. Never [M], never [T].
Why? Because [T] is how you figure out when the model is misbehaving.
If you train on [T], you are training the AI to obfuscate its thinking, and defeat [T]. You will rapidly lose your ability to know what is going on, in exactly the ways you most need to know what is going on.
Those bits of optimization pressure from [T] are precious. Use them wisely.
Table of Contents
---
Outline:
(00:57) New Paper Warns Against the Most Forbidden Technique
(06:52) Reward Hacking Is The Default
(09:25) Using CoT to Detect Reward Hacking Is Most Forbidden Technique
(11:49) Not Using the Most Forbidden Technique Is Harder Than It Looks
(14:10) It's You, It's Also the Incentives
(17:41) The Most Forbidden Technique Quickly Backfires
(18:58) Focus Only On What Matters
(19:33) Is There a Better Way?
(21:34) What Might We Do Next?
---
First published:
Source:
---
Narrated by TYPE III AUDIO.
---
Images from the article:
Apple Podcasts and Spotify do not show images in the episode description. Try Pocket Casts, or another podcast app.
By zvi5
22 ratings
The Most Forbidden Technique is training an AI using interpretability techniques.
An AI produces a final output [X] via some method [M]. You can analyze [M] using technique [T], to learn what the AI is up to. You could train on that. Never do that.
You train on [X]. Only [X]. Never [M], never [T].
Why? Because [T] is how you figure out when the model is misbehaving.
If you train on [T], you are training the AI to obfuscate its thinking, and defeat [T]. You will rapidly lose your ability to know what is going on, in exactly the ways you most need to know what is going on.
Those bits of optimization pressure from [T] are precious. Use them wisely.
Table of Contents
---
Outline:
(00:57) New Paper Warns Against the Most Forbidden Technique
(06:52) Reward Hacking Is The Default
(09:25) Using CoT to Detect Reward Hacking Is Most Forbidden Technique
(11:49) Not Using the Most Forbidden Technique Is Harder Than It Looks
(14:10) It's You, It's Also the Incentives
(17:41) The Most Forbidden Technique Quickly Backfires
(18:58) Focus Only On What Matters
(19:33) Is There a Better Way?
(21:34) What Might We Do Next?
---
First published:
Source:
---
Narrated by TYPE III AUDIO.
---
Images from the article:
Apple Podcasts and Spotify do not show images in the episode description. Try Pocket Casts, or another podcast app.

26,273 Listeners

2,452 Listeners

1,100 Listeners

108 Listeners

289 Listeners

89 Listeners

558 Listeners

5,551 Listeners

137 Listeners

12 Listeners

146 Listeners

147 Listeners

472 Listeners

0 Listeners

141 Listeners