The Resilient Recruiter

What separates top billers from everyone else in recruitment?

In this episode, DG Recruit co-founders Dandan Zhu and Grace Marlin reveal the strategies they’ve seen consistently drive high performance across the industry. Their rec-to-rec agency gives them unique insight into what elite recruiters do differently—and how you can replicate it.

Dandan and Grace share three core themes that make or break recruiters today:

Maintaining a deep, diverse client pipeline beyond a few accounts

Making strategic relationship investments with long-term ROI

Perfecting your MPC outreach to grab hiring managers' attention fast

With Dandan’s experience as a top-producing recruiter who achieved financial independence by 28 and Grace’s 6.5 years helping launch and elevate recruitment careers, this episode is packed with field-tested insights for scaling your billings and building long-term success in agency recruitment.

🎯 Episode Highlights:

[01:28] How Dandan and Grace began working together

[04:00] Market trends in the recruitment space

[06:40] What top billers do consistently

[15:06] Why “thinking big” leads to big returns

[20:37] The “Golden Loop” approach to BD and retention

[27:26] Blueprint for an effective MPC strategy

[33:30] Adapting to changing markets and technology

[37:22] Learning more through DG Recruit’s platforms

Why Top Billers Never Stop Building Client Pipelines

Many recruiters became complacent with just a few accounts. But when the market shifted, they were left scrambling. Top billers consistently build relationships using webinars, panels, and niche content.

Dandan emphasizes, “All the playbook is there—but who’s actually running the plays?” Grace adds that success often comes from “who’s willing to go one or two steps deeper” and invest months into client relationships before seeing ROI.

The ROI of Relationship-Driven BD

From rooftop events to curated gatherings like pottery painting, Grace and Dandan invest in creative, niche-specific client events. These efforts may take years to pay off, but they create stronger trust, brand awareness, and higher placement odds.

Grace points out how few recruiters take the time to do even a couple of things differently—and that’s the opportunity. This relationship-first approach results in client loyalty and referrals that competitors miss.

MPC Strategy: Sell Your Talent, Not Your Agency

Too many recruiters waste the first few seconds of outreach on introductions. Dandan’s advice? Lead with your candidate. Immediately.

Hiring managers don’t care about your agency—they care about solving urgent problems. Skip the small talk, craft a compelling candidate profile, and confidently deliver value. That’s how top recruiters cut through the noise.

👤 About Dandan Zhu

Dandan is the Founder of DG Recruit, a top rec-to-rec firm, and the Agency Recruitment Academy. She achieved financial independence by 28 and now helps senior producers and leaders scale their success. She’s also the author of Agency Recruitment 101 and host of the DG Recruit Podcast.

🔗 Connect with Dandan:
LinkedIn | Instagram | Twitter: @dandanzhudg

👤 About Grace Marlin

Grace is Co-Founder of DG Recruit and Recruiter Prep. She’s helped shape the careers of top-performing agency recruiters and is passionate about the autonomy and upside of agency life. She co-created an intro course to help new recruiters break in successfully.

🔗 Connect with Grace:
LinkedIn | DG Recruit website | DG Recruit Podcast | Facebook | YouTube

📚 Mentioned in This Episode:
Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion – Robert Cialdini

🎙️ Connect with Mark Whitby:
Free Strategy Call | LinkedIn | @RecruitmentCoach on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter: @MarkWhitby

Imagine building a recruitment firm where every placement creates a real positive impact. That’s exactly what Leo Hewett set out to do when he launched Core3—a finance & accounting recruitment agency built on purpose, ethics, and community.

After reaching Director level in corporate recruitment, Leo launched Core3 in 2022 with a clear mission: to build a B Corp-certified business that goes beyond profit. Since then, Core3 has won multiple awards including REC's Startup of the Year (2023) and Business Leader’s Business of the Year (2024).

In this episode, Leo shares his journey of launching Core3, building values-led teams, and navigating setbacks without compromising on culture or impact.

🎧 Episode Highlights:
[03:23] How Leo’s mom inspired him to give back through recruitment
[08:43] Why he launched Core3 after 10+ years in corporate recruitment
[15:30] What makes Core3 a purpose-led recruitment firm
[28:33] Why values-based businesses attract great talent
[30:39] Core3’s growth journey: milestones and challenges
[34:59] How to reactivate clients with authenticity
[37:15] ROI from building a personal LinkedIn brand
[40:41] Following up with voice notes after engagement
[43:10] Creating inner-circle communities that drive value
[51:50] Hiring experienced consultants the right way
[57:15] Overcoming scaling challenges: culture and cash flow
[1:05:31] Metrics Core3 tracks to measure what really matters

💡 Building a Purpose-Driven Recruitment Firm

Leo launched Core3 with an inheritance-funded buffer and a bold idea: to build a business where 3% of all revenue goes to charity—chosen by the client after each placement. Core3’s B Corp certification is a mark of accountability, ethics, and ESG leadership that attracts both clients and candidates who care about impact.

“The values aren’t just on the wall—you can feel them. Every placement has meaning,” Leo explains.

💬 Adding Value Through Inner-Circle Communities

Core3 created non-sales-driven communities to bring like-minded finance leaders together. What started with The Conscious Finance Podcast evolved into in-person roundtables. These events:

Build trust and deepen relationships

Position Core3 as thought leaders

Offer exclusive peer networking

Create sustained engagement and loyalty

📈 Scaling a Business with Heart—Overcoming Culture & Cash Flow Challenges

Leo shares the two major hurdles he faced while scaling:

Culture – Early-stage ambiguity made it hard to embed values. He solved it by:

Setting clear expectations

Involving the team

Hiring value-aligned people

Cash Flow – Despite success, geopolitical disruption led to a 6-month loss. His team responded by:

Increasing visibility and accountability

Shifting from input KPIs to meaningful output metrics

Implementing OKRs to drive performance

Collaborating across departments to course-correct

Core3 navigated this rough patch without losing a single team member.

👤 About Leo Hewett

Leo is the Founder of Core3, a purpose-led, award-winning recruitment firm specializing in Finance & Accounting. He believes business should be a force for good—and Core3 leads the way by pledging 3% of revenue to community and environmental causes.

🔗 Connect with Leo & Core3:
Leo on LinkedIn | Core3 Website | Conscious Finance Podcast
Instagram | Facebook | X | YouTube

📚 Mentioned:
Start With Why by Simon Sinek

🎙️ Connect with Mark Whitby:
Free Strategy Call | LinkedIn | @RecruitmentCoach on Instagram
Twitter: @MarkWhitby | Facebook

👍 Like the episode? Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter and leave a review to help more recruiters discover the show!

What if your next training session became the highlight of your recruiters' week rather than just another calendar obligation? We explore how innovative recruitment leaders transform traditional onboarding into engaging experiences that drive performance and retention.

In this episode, a tenured recruiter and recruitment business owner shares his experience in training hundreds of recruiters in this career. For David, “training and developing people is fun!”

David Bloxham is the CEO of GCS Recruitment. With over 30 years of experience, David is passionate about connecting innovative technology companies with the expert talent they need to drive their businesses forward. 

In 2017, he led a successful management buyout (MBO) with nGAGE Talent, further solidifying his leadership in the industry. Under his guidance, GCS Recruitment has expanded globally with a team of 100 consultants and 7 offices including London, Reading, Amsterdam, Berlin, Dublin, Orlando and Philadelphia.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [02:12] How did David get started in recruiting?
• [04:30] Has productivity in recruitment remaining relatively constant over time?
• [13:08] Effective and efficient team structure to increase productivity.
• [20:23] Hiring and developing hundreds of people over the years, what key training elements David wishes to share?
• [36:05] David and his team use tools and technology for reports and gamifying objectives.
• [40:27] Core focus of recruiters despite technological advances: telephone first and networking.
• [49:31] Discussion on David’s Management Buyout (MBO) experience and learnings.
• [56:53] Should your recruitment firm get an investment from a Private Equity?

Below are some of the takeaways he shared on this topic:

• Passion for Teaching – He genuinely enjoys training people, seeing them "get it," and watching their progress. His enthusiasm makes training engaging and impactful.
• Gamification and Fun—He introduces friendly competitions, small challenges (like mentioning random topics in calls), and a team environment that keeps training lively and engaging.
• Hands-On Learning – He believes in learning by doing, allowing trainees to make calls early, experience rejection, and develop resilience.
• Focus on Fundamentals – Despite industry changes, he emphasizes that the core of recruitment remains the same: connecting clients and candidates.
• Creating a Supportive Environment – He fosters a collaborative setting where trainees can share wins, struggles, and experiences.
• Emphasizing Resilience – He prepares recruiters for the challenges of the job, especially handling rejection and navigating modern recruitment complexities.
• Adapting Training to Modern Challenges – He acknowledges changes in recruitment (e.g., difficulty reaching candidates, compliance hurdles) and tailors training to address these new realities.

David Bloxham Bio and Contact Info

David Bloxham is a seasoned recruitment professional and the CEO of GCS Recruitment. With over 30 years of experience, David has a passion for connecting innovative technology companies with the expert talent they need to drive their businesses forward. In 2017, he led a successful management buyout (MBO) with nGAGE Talent, further solidifying his leadership in the industry. Under his guidance, GCS Recruitment has grown significantly on a global scale, helping clients to "Employ the Future to Create it." David's expertise in the recruitment industry and his dedication to fostering strong client relationships have made him a respected figure in the field.

• David on LinkedIn
• GCS Tech Talent website link
• GCS Connect Leaders podcast
• nGAGE talent website link

People and Resources Mentioned

• LinkedIn Recruiter
• Lusha
• Crunchbase
• Daxtra
• PowerBI

Connect with Mark Whitby

• Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call
• Mark on LinkedIn
• Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
• Mark on Facebook
• Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters.

The journey from top-performing recruiter to successful business leader requires a significant mindset shift. Melanie DeBeer, Director of Full Circle Selection shares how she built a thriving recruitment business that doesn't rely solely on her personal billings. With over 25 years in the industry, Melanie reveals the pivotal moment when she realized that to scale her business, she needed to step back from day-to-day operations and empower her team.

"The challenge for me was letting go," Melanie admits. "I love every component of recruitment. But I had to make a decision. I can't juggle all of these balls and my business is not going to grow and upscale if I'm doing everything myself."

This candid conversation explores how Melanie transitioned from being fully immersed in the business to working strategically on it, creating a recruitment firm that continues to thrive even when she's not directly involved in every aspect of operations.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [02:16] How Mark and Melanie go way back in the coaching field, and how she got into the recruitment space.
• [09:49] Going back to basics and avoiding shortcuts: Highlight of Melanie’s career before starting her own business.
• [14:55] How leadership and structure contributed to Melanie’s success factors as a recruiter.
• [22:31] Discussion on the most impactful metrics to look at.
• [26:53] Why you should not be afraid to increase your average fee percentage.
• [31:34] Melanie’s journey of starting her recruitment business.
• [39:25] The milestones of growing the team and how Melanie overcame the biggest challenges.
• [47:32] Transitioning to a mindset of working on the business instead of ‘in the business.’
• [57:54] Approach and best practices to onboard the right people.

The Importance of Going Back to Basics

Before launching her recruitment business, Melanie was an achieving recruiter. Her 25 years of recruitment experience is a colourful collage of peak performance and highlights, and she is very much willing to share her early influences and success factors. 

One mindset that resonates with me is how she values the importance of returning to basics. Going back to basics is crucial for Melanie because it helps her avoid the pitfalls of taking shortcuts, which can negatively impact the quality of her work. Even as an experienced recruiter, she acknowledges that revisiting fundamental principles—such as thoroughly qualifying candidates and job specs—leads to greater success. She ensures a more strategic and sustainable path forward by stepping back, reassessing, and refining her approach, reinforcing the importance of “quality over quantity.”

Melanie also emphasized the following factors that contributed to her success as a recruiter:

• Continuous Learning & Training
• Strong Leadership & Guidance
• Leveraging Strengths
• Structured & Strategic Approach
• Face-to-Face Client Engagement
• Working Smarter, Not Harder 

Focusing on the Most Impactful Metrics and KPIs 

In running your recruitment business, what metrics do you prioritize? Melanie shared the most impactful metrics that they focus on. Below are the takeaways:

• Qualified Specs & Candidate Quality—Before submission, she assesses the qualifications of job specs and candidates, ensuring higher placement success.
• Referrals to Placements Ratio – She tracks how many candidate referrals (submissions) lead to placements, optimizing the process to improve efficiency.
• Number of Placements Per Month – This metric helps monitor overall productivity and revenue generation.
• Placement Fees & Average Placement Value—She focuses on increasing placement fees to ensure higher earnings per deal instead of simply increasing volume. 
• CVs Sent to Referrals Ratio – Tracking how many CVs are needed to secure a referral (candidate submission) helps refine sourcing and qualification strategies.
• Interview Conversion Rate (Referrals to Interviews) – She evaluates how many referred candidates secure interviews, ensuring quality over quantity in submissions.

We also covered why you should not be afraid of increasing your average fee percentage. When done right, doing so will bring advantages and a better perception of your clients.

Working on the Business versus Working In the Business

You'll also enjoy hearing how Melanie has successfully made the shift from being fully in the business to working strategically on the business. This means she's building a business that is not overly reliant on her billings and doesn't require her micro-managing in every little area for things to get done. It was difficult for her at first, because she loves what she does, and even when building a team, there is this tendency for her to get involved in everything. 

What helped her reframe her mindset is by trusting to what her team is capable of. Melanie said, “We talk about teamwork, makes the dream work. So I think there's also that element where I know that I can leave it in their hands. I know that they're going to deliver and they're competent. So again, they've got the skill, they've got the will and I know I can leave it in their hands. We've spoken about what they want to achieve. We know their long-term goals fit in with my long-term goals and they've got the skill. So I could step back a bit more.’

This resulted in Malanie having more breathing space and time to think of more strategies in running their business.

Melanie De Beer Bio and Contact Info 

Melanie Donnelly is an experienced recruitment specialist and Talent Acquisition Coordinator with over 25 years in the finance and engineering sectors. Leading Fullcircle Selection, Melanie excels in aligning top talent with companies' needs, particularly in South Africa. Her client-focused approach and expertise in staff retention and recruitment process improvement have helped her build trusted partnerships and exclusive collaborations. With a strong foundation in sales and client relationship management, Melanie continues to drive impactful hiring outcomes and enhance workforce quality across industries.

• Melanie on LinkedIn
• Fullcircle Selection website link

People and Resources Mentioned

• Dan Martell - Buy Back Your Time 

• Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call
• Mark on LinkedIn 
• Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
• Mark on Facebook
• Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters.

Would you be apprehensive about adding a recruitment bot in your hiring process at the risk of losing the ‘human’ factor? Our special guest, Betsy Robinson, explains how they utilize AI trends and other tech stacks to enhance their client and candidate experience.

Betsy Robinson is the Founder & CEO of Tier4 Group, a woman-owned, diversity-certified talent acquisition firm headquartered in Atlanta. 

The company specializes in connecting exceptional talent with top-tier employers for technology and executive roles, combining advanced recruitment automation with a personalized approach. 

Under her leadership, Tier4 Group has achieved remarkable recognition, including six consecutive years on the Inc. 5000 list of fastest-growing companies (2019-2024) and five appearances on the Atlanta Pacesetters list.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [03:03] Recruiting out of college - beginning of Betsy’s 20-year recruitment journey.
• [07:05] How she ventured out alone - discussing high points and challenges.
• [18:31] Fostering a culture of feedback and how it elevates the quality of output.
• [24:19] Incorporating recruitment automation, technology, and AI.
• [33:35] Would you include a digital recruiter in hiring your process?
• [41:15] Betsy reveals their tech stack and AI trends.
• [47:28] The value of using note-taking AI tools.
• [51:52] Creating a culture of strong team collaboration.

Incorporating a Digital Recruiter in the Hiring Process

Would you consider incorporating a recruitment ‘bot’ in your hiring process? A lot of recruitment business owners might be apprehensive about doing so, as it poses the risk of diminishing the ‘human touch’ in the process. 

On the other hand, Betsy's team is leveraging a "digital employee," specifically a digital recruiter, to enhance their hiring process. This AI-powered recruiter can call and chat with candidates, helping to screen large volumes of applicants more efficiently while maintaining a personalized experience. Unlike traditional chatbots or automated emails, this digital recruiter has a live voice and engages in real conversations, making it feel more human-like.

Betsy Robinson Bio and Contact Info

Betsy Robinson is the Founder & CEO of Tier4 Group. Headquartered in Atlanta, Tier4 Group is a woman-owned and diversity-certified talent acquisition firm specializing in connecting exceptional talent with top-tier employers seeking to fill technology and executive roles. By combining advanced recruitment automation with a personalized approach, Tier4 strives to identify the best fit for both the customer and the candidate.

Tier4 Group has been recognized for six consecutive years (2019-2024) as one of the fastest-growing companies in the nation on the prestigious Inc. 5000 list, as well as being named for a 5th time in 2024 to the Atlanta Pacesetters list of the fastest growing privately-held companies in GA. Additionally, the company is a four-time Bulldog 100 Honoree. The Bulldog 100 recognizes the 100 fastest-growing businesses owned or operated by UGA Alumni. 

Betsy was named LGBTQ Businessperson of the Year in Georgia in 2023 and recognized to the inaugural Inc Magazine 30 Under 30-ish list in 2023. She was also named to the Atlanta Business Chronicle’s 40 Under 40 Class of 2019. Betsy holds a B.B.A. from the University of Georgia’s Terry College of Business. She is an active volunteer with Women in Technology (WIT), currently serving on the Board of Directors. Betsy has also served on the Board of Directors for the Technology Association of Georgia’s Diversity & Inclusion Society, as well as the Business Advisory Board for ITT Technical Institute. 

Outside of work, Betsy is active in outreach within the community as a volunteer supporting several non-profits. Her most important jobs are as a wife and mom. On weekends, you can find her cheering on her son on the soccer field, boating on the lake, or cheering loudly in the stands for the Atlanta sports team as well as the Georgia Bulldogs.

• Betsy on LinkedIn
• Tier4 Group website link
• Retained Executive Search (a division of Tier4) website link
• WIT (Women in Technology) website link

Connect with Mark Whitby

• Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call
• Mark on LinkedIn, 
• Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
• Mark on Facebook
• Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters.

A 25-year recruiting veteran! Our special guest, Jeff Cox, shares his journey and insights on how he made two transitions to up his recruitment game: From placing junior to senior roles and switching from contingent to retainer model.

These shifts can be challenging, and so it takes the right mindset and preparation for your to have the power to transition. Jeff shared how he did it!

Jeff specializes in assisting biotech and pharmaceutical companies in building transformative leadership teams. 

As a member of the prestigious Pinnacle Society, Jeff is one of the top-producing recruiters in the country. But he believes success in this industry is less about the money and more about the people we impact and the life-changing projects we advance.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [02:50] How did Jeff end up in the recruiting industry after aspiring to become an actor?
• [06:52] Acting as Jeff’s cornerstone in his recruitment approach.
• [10:42] Success factors contributing to consistent improvement when starting your desk.
• [18:34] Why being nervous all the time is not necessarily a bad thing.
• [20:11] Jeff shares his experience working with his father and siblings in the business.
• [24:48] Transition to placing senior directors, VPs, and C-level executives.
• [42:36] Insights on the current market and team dynamics and how it can be challenging for [retained searches.
• [48:34] Switching from contingent to retained search - the power of walking away.
• [54:35] Going back to the basics amid a big reset in 2025.

What Success Looked Like

What would Jeff consider a success factor in his success as a recruitment business owner? For him, it is no magic ingredient.

“It's just showing up every day and being, you know, you know, like my dad says. We used to say, “Dad, I don't know what to do.” You know, pick up the phone. That's what you do. “Dad, I don't have enough job orders.” Pick up the phone. If you work every day, it works out.”

Jeff emphasized the value of being consistent and showing up every day as a key factor in his longevity and success in the recruiting field. He also shared how his background as an actor helped him learn a lot about being human - which is a key ingredient when building relationships with clients and candidates. 

“I mean, I think that's the foundation, of why I'm a good recruiter. Because, you know, the most important thing to do as an actor is to listen. To listen and to live in the moment, you know, not, not to let things get ahead of yourself… I guess also the ability, you know, when you play a lot of different characters, you have to be able to jump into other people's skin. You have to be able to understand.”

On top of the above, he also had the foundation of working in his father’s recruitment firm. This led him to eventually build his desk and the rest is history.

Transitioning to Place Executive Senior Roles

Jeff initially worked in lower-level positions such as associates and clinical chemists. When he started his firm, he made two key decisions that positively impacted his revenue.

1. Making a strategic decision to focus on higher-level positions such as directors, VPs, and C-level executives.
2. Moving from Contingency to Retained search model.

The first item above is not an easy transition. Jeff decided to no longer accept managerial placements but rather focus on executive-level positions. Here are the two takeaways: 

Making a Conscious, Strategic Shift – He decided to position himself exclusively for senior director-level and above roles. This meant actively telling the market, "No, I don't work at that level; I only recruit senior executives." By consistently reinforcing this message, he established himself as a specialist in executive recruitment.

Leveraging Long-Term Relationships – Over time, the professionals he had placed in junior roles advanced in their careers, moving into managerial and director positions. He capitalized on these relationships, using his existing network to transition into higher-level placements.

He also had the same mindset when he switched from a contingent to a retained search model. He shared that for him to have the ability to make strong choices such as this decision to switch, he had to ensure that he kept his housekeeping in order. “I made a strategic choice to live within my means. And when I made. When I made these choices, I was like, okay, you've got enough. You've got enough Runway where you can do it.”

Why Going Back to the Basics is Essential in This Market

A key topic that resonates with me is how Jeff deals with the current market difficulty in the pharmaceutical and biotech industries.  

“I think the pharmaceutical and biotech industry has had a rough year and there's this balancing act that I'm going through in my brain. Do I go back to contingency when times are tough? Like, like what do you know? What do I do?” 

If you can relate to how Jeff felt, I am sure you will appreciate his strong sense of accountability and self-awareness. 

“And I, and I have found that I'm not, I'm not doing my job as well as I should. So it's now for me it's a time to get back to the basics. And I think that's what 2025 is. It's getting back to doing the job properly, you know, and, and you know, and I fault myself because I should have known this, but sometimes you don't see it, but really like sitting here now, it's just getting back to the basics. So I'm excited and that's exciting to me. It's like the realization is I gotta go back to the basics. I gotta start hammering out the phone calls and it's exciting.”

Such an admirable mindset! 

Jeff Cox Bio & Contact Info

With over 25 years of experience in pharmaceutical recruitment, Jeff has built a career connecting top talent with leading companies. The journey began in 1995 with a first placement made in just 16 days—a milestone that set the stage for decades of success.

Starting with roles such as Clinical Research Associates, Analytical Chemists, and Regulatory Affairs Associates, Jeff steadily progressed to placing Managers, Senior Managers, Associate Directors, and Directors. Today, the focus is on VP-level and executive placements, a natural evolution earned through years of dedication and expertise.

More than just a recruiter, Jeff is a builder—helping biotech and pharmaceutical companies strengthen their leadership teams with experienced professionals who have climbed the ranks step by step. At this level, recruitment goes beyond compensation; it’s about aligning the right people with the right projects to drive innovation and impact.

• Jeff on LinkedIn
• CKR Associates website link
• Pinnacle Society website link

People and Resources Mentioned

• Katherine Jerald on LinkedIn
• Getting to Yes: Negotiating Agreement Without Giving In, R.Fisher

• Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call
• Mark on LinkedIn
• Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
• Mark on Facebook
• Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters.

Imagine this: being so meticulous in your candidate screening process invites an unexpected face-to-face investigation from Federal Agents. That is what our special guest, Lee Ann Howard, had to go through when starting as a recruiter in her early 20s. The secret to her 'suspicious' expertise? Simply asking the right questions and listening carefully to candidates.

Lee Ann is the visionary Founder of Howard & O'Brien Executive Search. With a keen eye for identifying top talent in senior management roles and a specialization in HR, finance, and sales and marketing functions, Lee Ann stands as a beacon of excellence in the realm of executive search.

You will surely enjoy Lee Ann’s insights on how to build a continuous pipeline of senior management roles for your clients and what it takes to have long-lasting strategic client relationships.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• 01:18 How Lee Ann left broadcasting to get into recruitment. 
• 05:05 What made Lee Ann stand out in her early years; Her astonishing story of why she had to be investigated by the government because of her recruitment activities.
• 12:05 Emphasizing learning and development.
• 20:04 From corporate to executive search - Lee Ann shares her transition. 
• 27:15 Discussion on the board recruiting business model of Howard & O’Brien.
• 45:48 Lee Ann explains their Conversation with the Board program.
• 48:38 Discussion on their Reverse Placement program.
• 51:17 How to cultivate long-term strategic client relationships.
• 57:30 Making it a family business - how Lee Ann’s children eventually joined her in the business.

Unexpected Government Investigation for Doing a Thorough Job

Lee Ann shared an astonishing story about being investigated by federal agents because of their extensive knowledge of security-cleared roles and positions. 

“I ended up getting investigated by the government because they thought I was a spy because I knew too much … I literally got visited. I was visited by the government. It was unbelievable because I was sitting in my office and the receptionist came back and they said, there's somebody here from the government to see you. And I'm like, I've paid my taxes because that's the only thing I thought I could possibly do wrong. And I got taken into a conference room and they said, we believe you know too much about what's happening. And I'm like, no, I'm not a spy. I don't work for Russia.”

This made her realize that she was probably doing something right if she was getting information that other people were not getting in their industry. Indeed she was! Asking the right questions, and being meticulous in her job, contributed highly in her success as a recruiter and later on as a recruitment business owner. Some of the takeaways on Lee Ann’s success factors are as follows:

• Instinctive Recruiting Ability
• Curiosity and Continuous Learning 
• Strong Relationship Building
• Commitment to Hard Work
• Personalized Approach 
• Client and Candidate Engagement
• Being Not Focused on Sales, But on Relationships 

Which of the above success factors resonate most with you as a recruiter or business owner?

Board Recruiting, Conversation with the Board, and Reverse Placement Programs

Lee Ann also discussed key strategies that they implement in Howard & O’Brien with the focus of providing a continuous stream of C-level talents to their clients. The three main programs she discussed are Board Recruiting, Conversation with the Board, and Reverse Placement. Below are the key concepts of the programs:

Board Recruiting

Board recruiting is the process of identifying and placing individuals in board positions for organizations. Unlike traditional executive search, it involves adding responsibilities rather than replacing someone. The process includes:

• Engaging with CEOs, board chairs, or governance committees to define the board’s needs.
• Creating a strategic long-term plan for board composition.
• Ensuring cultural fit and alignment with the company’s strategic direction.

Conversation with the Board

This is a program aimed at increasing diversity and exposing more candidates—particularly women—to board opportunities. It was developed as a way to help executives, who may not see themselves as board material, realize their potential for board service. It involves:

• Facilitating networking opportunities between potential board members and current board leaders.
• Encouraging companies to consider non-traditional candidates who bring valuable perspectives.

Reverse Placement Programs

This is a specialized career development service for executives looking to join boards. It is either funded by companies or individuals and serves as a way for leaders to continue their professional growth. It provides:

• Guidance on positioning oneself for board roles.
• Strategic networking with board leaders.

These programs put Lee Ann’s team in a strategic position, providing them a long-term relationship-building with existing clients. 

Cultivating Long-Term Strategic Relationships

On this topic, Lee Ann summarized what can make you stand out with the following experience she had: “What makes you different is what you're trying to do. And I think it's the little things. There was a marketing person that I was interviewing for a job and she knew I'd just gotten a new puppy and she sent me this little assortment of stuff for my puppy. Now I still remember that because, I mean, she listened to what I was saying. It, you know, she probably spent $20 on it. But what an impact.”

It is indeed the little things you do. Some of the best practices that Lee Ann and her team have been doing over the years are as follows:

Long-Term Value Over Transactions – They prioritize relationships rather than quick sales, consistently providing valuable insights, industry articles, and strategic advice.

Community Engagement – Each team member is involved in community initiatives, reinforcing their reputation as good corporate stewards and deepening trust with clients.

Personalized Touchpoints – They maintain relationships through handwritten thank-you notes, customized gifts (e.g., olive oil or cherry salsa), and small but meaningful gestures that make an impact.

Being Helpful Beyond Business – They go beyond recruitment by assisting clients in unexpected ways, like recommending a plumber and reinforcing their role as trusted advisors.

Their approach is centered on authenticity, generosity, and a long-term mindset, setting them apart from competitors. As Lee Ann concluded, “It is putting yourself second and putting others first.”

Lee Ann Howard Bio & Contact Info

As Founder and Chief Executive Officer of Howard & O’Brien, Lee Ann Howard brings with her a passion for understanding people and dedication to following their journey in executive leadership. In her 25 years of connecting high-caliber candidates with her clients, she has solidified her reputation in driving quantifiable success for million and billion-dollar companies across North America. 

Lee Ann leads a Women-Owned Business and carries this spirit into diversity, inclusion, and equitable placement strategies. 

Lee Ann founded Conversations with the Board® in 2001 and continues to lead workshops for those who serve or have the desire to serve boards. She is currently on the board of the American Heart Association as Leadership Development Co-chair and past Board Chair as well as Case Western Reserve University (CWRU) Family Business Center Advisory Committee. She has served on the boards of MetroHealth Foundation Board - Membership Committee Chair; the John Carroll University Entrepreneur Association - Executive Committee; In Counsel with Women - Membership Chair, The Gathering Place, Women’s Community Foundation, and Business Volunteers Unlimited (BVU).

Lee Ann is especially passionate about and involved in the shared impact of individuals in greater Cleveland. Over the course of her career, she has received the National Association of Women Business Owners Top Ten Award in Northeast Ohio, the Athena Award, and the Medical Mutual Pillar Award for Community Service.

• Lee Ann on LinkedIn
• Howard & O’Brien website link
• Howard & O’Brien on LinkedIn

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• Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
• Mark on Facebook
• Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

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In this episode, we are joined by Rickard Fritjofsson. He’s the founder and CEO of a successful multi-brand recruitment company, Worldwiders, that has placed over 5,000 people in 40 countries.

Rickard discussed key elements of their company culture, influenced by sports principles, including clear career paths and collaborative goal-setting. As a recruitment business owner, it will also resonate with you how he addressed challenges such as downsizing due to market fluctuations which is a great business case of how being resilient will allow you to turn around unfavorable situations into learnings and advantages.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [03:48] How Rickard got into recruitment and how his role as the coach of Norway’s national Bandy team influences his leadership.
• [08:11] Why Rickard focuses on international jobs as his niche.
• [13:34] Growing from 0 to $5m in six years - discussion of Nordic Jobs Worldwide’s early days.
• [21:56] Trigger to decide on when to make the next hire in your recruitment firm.
• [23:35] Discussion about the business model and the management of portfolios.
• [26:46] Key success factors when rapidly growing their team.
• [36:42] Prioritizing career development of team members via progression and support projects.
• [45:30] Learnings that forced them to downsize and restructure.

Targeting International Jobs as a Niche

A unique selling proposition of Rickard and his team is their focus on international jobs as a niche. “So I did some research and figured out that no company in the world, even if the recruitment industry is big, is doing the niche of language recruitment of Nordics… So we were the first to step into that niche in 2016. So Norwegian, Swedish Danish, and Finnish were the specialization, and the business developed there. And we decided also to build it organically, like stone by stone.” 

Being observant of industry needs, Rickard came up with an impactful solution and built their business from there. He shared their three main objectives when launching their recruitment business: build a company organically, scale the business, and be the best in what they do. So far, Rickard and his team are on track to achieving these three main goals since starting their business in 2016.

Key Success Factors Contributing to Rapid Growth

An astonishing feat that Rickard and his team have accomplished is the rapid sustainable growth of their company since its inception. He grew the company from 0 to $5m in just six years. They have placed over 5000 people in 40 countries and they have 400+ clients worldwide. What would Rickard consider as a success factor contributing to this growth? Here are some takeaways:

• Core Values-Driven Culture – Embedding Courage, Trust, and Results into daily operations and decision-making.
• Clear Career Progression – Offering fast internal growth opportunities, and motivating employees to excel.
• Decisive Expansion Strategy – Rapidly opening offices in Barcelona and Lisbon, executing growth plans with confidence.
• Market-Aligned Scaling – Capitalizing on post-2022 industry demand to scale efficiently.
• Performance-Driven Mindset – Fostering a "best in the world" mentality, akin to elite sports teams (due to his background in Bandy)
• Client Partnership Approach – Positioning as strategic advisors rather than just service providers.
• Culture of Celebration – Recognizing achievements through company-wide events, awards, and gatherings.

Rickard said,  “From day one, when we started the business, we also put up core values and they are still active in the company. We also have three keywords: courage, trust, and result. So it's like having the courage to climb Mount Everest and call it taking strategic risks, putting the trust in the people we are hiring, and from that getting the results”

Overcoming Challenges - From Scaling to Downsizing

Rickard has also been very generous in sharing their resilience mindset when overcoming challenges. The last two years have been challenging: from scaling from 0-90 employees to downsizing to 60 again and cutting costs to meet the market situation is a scenario that Rickard is not used to. 

However, you will hear in our conversation his resilient recruiter mindset and how getting out of his comfort zone makes him a strong CEO who can turn around unfavorable situations. He was specific in action points that they are doing differently such as implementation of stricter financial controls and a return to foundational recruitment practices, with plans to scale responsibly with improved processes. 

If you are a recruitment entrepreneur and leader, you will surely be able to relate to what he shared in his experience. Have you navigated a similar scenario as a leader before?

Rickard Fritjofsson  Bio & Contact Info

Rickard Fritjofsson is a Swedish citizen living in Norway for the past 15 years, with an apartment in Málaga, Spain that allows him to enjoy both northern and southern European lifestyles. He is the founder of Worldwiders, a multi-brand recruitment company specializing in Language Recruitment, IT, and Executive Search, serving 400+ clients across 40+ countries. Passionate about the blend of sports and business. Former bandy player, now the national coach for Team Norway, leading them to a World Cup bronze medal.

• Rickard on LinkedIn
• Worldwiders website link
• Nordic Job Worldwide website link
• Asian Job Worldwide website link
• IT Jobs Worldwide website link
• Multilingual Jobs Worldwide website link

• Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call
• Mark on LinkedIn
• Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
• Mark on Facebook
• Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

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Not everyone is born to become a recruiter, but this may be the case for our special guest, Rachel Filby. When her father convinced her to pursue a career in recruitment, she never hesitated and firmly believed that it was one of the best decisions of her life. In her first year with Michael Page, she became a top biller, and she now runs her own recruitment agency, RF Recruitment.

In this episode, you will hear about the very specific success factors that led to her becoming a top performer and how she successfully transitioned to becoming a consistently successful solopreneur.

Rachel has 20 years of recruitment experience, initially working for one of the largest recruitment agencies in the world. 

In the Financial Times Survey 2024, Rachel Filby was recognized as one of the top 150 recruiters in the UK. 

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [01:09] How Rachel got into recruiting and how she became the number one biller at Michael Page.
• [11:21] Five success factors in becoming a top billing perm recruiter in the UK in her first year.
• [19:33] Thought process that motivates Rachel’s sense of urgency.
• [25:22] Discussion on rapid career trajectory and development as a leader.
• [32:00] Launching RF Recruitment agency during COVID and while integrating family life.
• [40:55] Rachel reveals her typical day-to-day process (past-present-future approach).
• [48:13] Best practices on lead generation and business development.
• [1:00:55] Rapid fire questions - business model, tech stack, etc.

Five Success Factors of Becoming the Top Biller in Her First Year as a Recruiter

Rachel initially wanted a career in media, but her father recommended that she take recruitment as a career path. At 21, she started her career with Michael Page and became a top biller in her first year!  Although she primarily attributes her success to the great training she received from Michael Page, I found five success factors that could resonate well with many aspiring recruiters who also plan to become future recruitment business owners:

• Commitment to Training and Preparation: Rachel took her training seriously, treating it with the level of commitment often reserved for seasoned professionals. 
• Strong Work Ethic and Dedication: Her willingness to work long hours and focus on her tasks set her apart. 
• Genuine Passion for People: Her empathy and listening skills allowed her to build meaningful relationships and understand individuals' unique needs, making her a trusted advisor during critical moments in their careers.
• Focus on High Activity Levels and KPIs: Rachel consistently met or exceeded her KPIs, which ensured a steady pipeline of candidates and opportunities.
• Sense of Urgency and Speed: Rachel’s natural inclination for urgency enabled her to act swiftly on opportunities. 

Together, these factors, along with the right mindset and strategy, propelled Rachel to outstanding success in her first year as a recruiter. This also led to a strong career trajectory, with her getting an early promotion as a manager.

Using the Past-Present-Future Approach in Day-to-Day Business

As a recruitment solopreneur, it can be challenging for Rachel to handle the end-to-end process of her business due to capacity challenges. This is also on top of her duty as a mother, as she places high value on taking care of her kids. I wanted to know her day-to-day process and how she can sustain her momentum in successfully running her business with consistent billing and client acquisition.

She explained, “I kind of separate my, my thought process and on my business in kind of three areas. So it's past, present, and future.”

She elaborated that the “past” means protecting the money she made or existing relationships. This entails a lot of aftercare and ensuring that relationships are continuously maintained.

The “present” is explained as “Then I have kind of the present, which is jobs I'm currently recruiting, candidates I'm currently working with. That's my kind of here-and-now. So, you know, I guess there's a bit of a sweet spot of how many jobs, you know, you have that you can do a really good job on within the time that you have. And you don't really want too many more than that or too many less than that.”

The “future” refers to business development and lead generation to secure the source of the next job.

Do you also apply the same approach to your business?

Best Practices on Lead Generation and Business Development

When discussing the “future” principle, I wanted to pick Rachel’s brains on her approach to business development and lead generation as well as how much time she spends in this aspect of her business. Below are some takeaways:

1. Proactive and Low-Pressure Engagement

Rachel consistently monitors her niche market, staying updated on who’s hiring and when they might need her services. She engages early in the recruitment process with no expectation of immediately winning the job, allowing her to build rapport without pressuring the client.

2. Intentional Targeting and Tailored Communication

Her outreach is bespoke and personal—whether it’s a phone call, LinkedIn message, or email—avoiding generic marketing materials in favor of tailored communication that resonates with potential clients.

3. Prioritizing Connection Through Calls

Despite the prevalence of digital communication, Rachel emphasizes the power of phone calls as the foundation of strong client relationships. She supplements this with follow-ups via voicemail, email, and LinkedIn to ensure she remains on their radar.

Rachel Filby Bio & Contact Info

Rachel Filby has 20 years of recruitment experience working initially for one of the largest recruitment agencies in the world and now runs her recruitment agency specializing in Facilities Management Recruitment. Rachel Filby is recognized as one of the top 150 recruiters in the UK in the Financial Times Survey 2024. 

• Rachel on LinkedIn
• RF Recruit website link

People and Resources Mentioned 

• Firefish 

• Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call
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• Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
• Mark on Facebook
• Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

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Mary Morton reveals how converting scientific research into strategic relationships revolutionized her recruitment approach. A biology major turned pharmaceutical recruiter, she leverages investor presentations and company pipelines to identify opportunities before her competitors. 

This research-driven strategy and building deep client trust helped her agency thrive from its 2008 recession launch through today's market challenges.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [04:50] How Mary accidentally got into recruitment.
• [08:30] Critical foundations contributing to recruitment career longevity.
• [17:26] Building relationships and walking the talk: Mary’s ingredients to success.
• [29:37] Mary is a science nerd and how she uses this quality to connect with clients.
• [39:43] How preparation and research in advance make it easy for May to connect with decision-makers for potential clients.
• [42:21] Adding value in your niche as a recruitment organization.
• [45:20] Quick fire questions.
• [49:27] Why Mary launched her podcast, MSLead Chronicles.
• [53:27] Mary shared one of the biggest roadblocks she had to overcome.

Critical Foundations in Billing $10M 

Mary's 30+ years of experience demonstrates how becoming an industry expert enables proactive rather than reactive recruiting. Her biology degree and pharmaceutical specialization became powerful advantages in building a $10M+ billing desk. Her longevity in the industry and accomplishments in the pharmaceutical niche can be attributed to several foundational elements:

• Curiosity and Science-Driven Approach: She emphasized the importance of being a "nerd" about the industry you work in, highlighting her drive to learn everything about the pharmaceutical space.
• People-Centric Focus: While being a people person is essential, Mary combined this quality with deep industry expertise and strategic focus to excel in recruitment, a role that requires more than interpersonal skills.
• Relentless Drive and Discipline: Mary's strong work ethic and determination were inspired by her father, a Marine Corps officer with a 31-year career. His values of accountability, responsibility, and perseverance deeply influenced her approach to work.

These factors, combined with her adaptability, niche specialization, and focus on continuous learning, have solidified her position as a leader in the recruitment industry.

How to Add Value to Your Niche as a Recruitment Organization

“Well, if they're already niched, I think they owe it to themselves as well as to the candidates and clients that they're serving to be an expert in the space that they're niched in or that they claim to be niched in. You know, I think that's where the value comes it.” This statement summarizes Mary’s mindset on adding value to your industry niche as a recruitment organization.

By investing in niche-specific knowledge and preparation, recruitment organizations can elevate their effectiveness and differentiate themselves in competitive markets. It also brings about the following benefits that Mary elaborated on in our discussion:

• Enhanced Expertise and Credibility
• Anticipation of Objections
• Improved Candidate and Client Engagement
• Higher Placement Success Rates
• Efficiency in Communication
• Tailored Solutions
• Long-Term Industry Impact

One way Mary builds her credibility in her relevant niche (in addition to her longevity) is by hosting a podcast.

Comprehensive Information Gathering as Competitive Advantage 

Mary's approach to information gathering goes far beyond standard job requirements. This thorough preparation becomes a key differentiator in her market. She can easily engage with potential clients' primary decision-makers, which results in optimum connection rates.

She shared the essential elements of her process:

1. Detailed initial client conversations beyond job descriptions
2. Documentation of potential objections and prepared responses
3. Collection of scientific/technical information candidates might question
4. Market feedback about the company's reputation
5. Preparation of selling points and challenge responses

These strategies directly contributed to Mary's ability to build a sustainable business that has thrived through multiple market downturns while maintaining premium fees averaging $50,000.

Mary Morton Bio & Contact Info

Mary began her recruiting career 30 years ago this coming March. For the last 25 years in the pharmaceutical industry. She owns SEMbio, a niche recruiting firm in field-based medical affairs, that she founded in 2008 with her longtime colleague and business partner, Nicole Evans. She has been a member of the Pinnacle Society for 7 years and runs a 360 desk that is primarily focused on account management, with personal billings above $10M over the last 15 years. (I only have billing records going back to 2011!)

• Sembio website link
• MSLead Chronicles Podcast on YouTube

People and Resources Mentioned 

• Nicole Evans on LinkedIn
• Chad Fellers on LinkedIn
• Pinnacle Society
• PCRecruiter 
• Ring Central
• Hinterview 
• Swordfish

• Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call
• Mark on LinkedIn, 
• Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
• Mark on Facebook
• Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

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