The Resilient Recruiter

Fostering a workplace where everyone wants to work can translate to positive employer branding. This is a critical factor if you wish to build your recruitment business to scale.

Joe Curtis, my special guest, will tell us how they can launch and scale recruitment companies while building those as businesses that people want to work for. The first recruitment business Joe and his cofounders built, 3Search, launched in 2014, and currently employs 40 people. With the successful scaling of 3Search, Joe turned his attention to building the 11 Investments Group, now at 100 heads, with 6 recruitment companies within the group.

In this episode, Joe shared his insights on they are able to have 900+ 5-star Google Reviews across their group, which is phenomenal for a recruitment company. We also discussed the value of diversity and inclusivity, as well as his take on the work-from-home and hybrid setup which is a recently hot topic.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [02:27] Joe’s recruiter and investor journey: How he left Michael Page and started his boutique firm.
• [06:41] Strategies for investing in startups instead of growing capital for the original business. 
• [13:27] Turning mistakes into learning opportunities - Joe revealed their biggest learnings and how they use them to help new startups invest in their holding.
• [22:35] Having a shared vision and working well with co-founders.
• [31:00] What it takes to be recognized as a Great Place to Work.
• [38:49] Zooming in on inclusivity and behavior-based hiring.
• [47:45] Discussion on the hybrid and work-from-home setting.

Critical Components When Launching and Scaling Recruitment Businesses

Joe co-founded his first recruitment business, 3Search, in 2014 which currently employs 40 people. With the successful scaling of 3Search, Joe turned his attention to building the 11 Investments Group, now at 100 heads. I wanted to pick his brains on the core components needed to build and scale a recruitment business. 

From a strategic point of view, Joe tells the story of why they invested in startups.  “Because we didn't want a multi-discipline business. We wanted a group of specialists,” he continued, “we champion small business, we champion entrepreneurship. and growth of small companies. And we have a platform that enables significant ownership to the guys that come in and found the businesses with us. We know how to scale and grow a recruitment business today in 2023, and we bring in founders who know their market well.”

What does the roadmap look like when it comes to scaling a recruitment business? Joe explained how they use an investment model to adapt to the market. He also mentioned how important it is to be hands-on. You will also hear strategies for handling operational tasks such as accounting and marketing on a centralized approach. Most importantly, Joe also shared the mistakes and learnings that they had to take for the past 9 years and how they are leveraging them to help out recruitment businesses investing in their group.

Running a Recruitment Business with Multiple Co-Owners

Running a recruitment business with multiple co-owners can be challenging for several reasons such as decision-making, division of responsibilities, and communication. But what I think is most common is the lack of a shared vision. Leaders can have different ideas of what they're trying to accomplish. What advice would Joe give to recruitment business owners who are working with multiple or other partners? He discussed the following two key principles:

• Having an articulated vision in the short, medium, and long term.
• Constantly talk about what you are doing and building.

As Joe describes it, “And these days, you know, we don't spend an awful lot of time together as a three talking about stuff, making decisions. So if you're not careful, you can start planning the future. on your own and then one of the others is planning a slightly different future. And as you kind of, as time goes on, those plans get further and further and further apart. So it's important to keep talking about what we're building.”

Creating a Business That People Want to Work For

Recently featured in The Sunday Times, Best Places to Work 2023, 11investment’s efforts have been recognized among the top-rated employers. This is an amazing feat, especially in the recruitment industry. Joe and his partners recognized that “hiring people is going to be hard in the recruitment industry and keeping people was going to be hard in their doing what we're doing.” They took proactive steps to ensure that they retain their valuable talents.

Joe revealed the things that they are doing differently to foster an environment where people want to work. “This employer brand we're building is all based around us really striving to provide the best benefits package we possibly can as a holistic package for people. It's really important that we consider everybody's needs collectively rather than just paying as much commission as we possibly can or having an amazing holiday benefit or, yeah, we're trying to put everything together. So we do have an amazing commission structure, I believe. We do have a good holiday. We've got unlimited holidays… The goal is to provide the best environment we possibly can that enables everybody to flourish both professionally and personally.”

We also discussed topics relating to hybrid and work-from-home setups, as well as what it takes to become a B-Corp-certified company. 

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro 

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Joe Curtis Bio and Contact Info

Joe is a recruiter, founder of multiple businesses, and now a recruitment investor who is helping to build and scale recruitment businesses.

Joe is the Director & Co-Founder at 11 Investments Director & Co-Founder at Recruiter Labs Director at 3Search

11 Investments was named The Sunday Times' Top Place To Work for 16-34 year-olds in 2023.

• Joe on LinkedIn
• 11 Investments website link
• 3Search website link
• Recruiter Labs website link

People and Resources Mentioned

• Adrian Romani on LinkedIn
• Anne Swain on LinkedIn
• APSCo website link
• Hibob HR Tool link
• Malcolm Gladwell’s podcast episode discussion on working from home

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“Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) is a priority to the next generation of employees. Their expectation is to see leaders who look like them and to know organizations are committed to

DEI long-term — not only during times of social crisis.” The Future of Recruiting 2023 LinkedIn Report

Embracing diversity in the recruitment industry is a progressive move that not only brings commercial benefits. It is a long-term commitment that aligns with the values of the current and future employees. I am delighted to share this episode with a very special guest, Alexis Alvarez. 

Alexis is a diversity advocate and the founder of Career Rockstars, a boutique talent and diversity search firm that partners with lower and middle-market PE firms in the United States and Europe. In this episode, she shared how they became diversity recruitment specialists for lower and middle-market private equity firms, with diversity hires of 60-75%. 

Alexis has over 10 years of recruiting experience and is also a podcast host. Her show is called Take the Stage - Ladies Who Rock, conversations with rockstar women from the world of private equity.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [01:46] From the US to the Middle East and Europe -  hear Alexis’ recruitment career journey.
• [12:30] How Alexis started her Private Equity (PE) recruitment firm.
• [21:39] Why truly embracing diversity can be a key differentiator to a recruitment company.
• [26:00] A retrospect to Alexis’ biggest achievements as a recruitment business owner including key learnings.
• [29:07] Do you consider yourself the biggest challenge in your recruitment career? Listen as Alexis shares how she can relate. 
• [32:02] Discussion on how to dislodge self-limiting beliefs.
• [36:18] Career Rockstar’s critical success factor: Patience, Purpose, and Intention framework.
• [40:20] Launching “Take the Stage Ladies Who Rock” - adding value to the recruitment industry through podcasting. 
• [51:12] David vs Goliath - the story of how Alexis won a huge deal over Heidrick & Struggles.
• [56:40] Navigating the unseen challenges of working full-time as a mom and recruitment business owner.

Truly Embracing Diversity as a Key Differentiator

Career Rockstars’ unique selling point is its commitment to diversity and inclusion. Alexis has a remarkable  60 to 75% diversity placement rate in her company. They prioritize diversity in their searches. This approach attracts like-minded firms that are also committed to diversity. 

What led Alexis to adopt this approach? She explained, “And I don't know why, maybe it's being, growing up in LA, you're in a really diverse setting... It was really like in 2020 when the world was falling apart. I'm seeing everything happen in the US. I just thought, what's happening, like, I could be doing more… I  just thought, okay, well, what can I do? And that's really when I decided to double down on increasing the number of diverse candidates that are in my pipeline, at least. And that's really how it started.”

Like me, you will also be inspired by Alexis’ passion and positive energy while sharing her story. How are you embracing diversity in your recruitment firm? Doing so is a progressive move that brings significant advantages. By fostering an inclusive culture and actively seeking diverse talent, recruitment companies create a more dynamic and forward-thinking business mindset.

Operating Under the Patience, Purpose, and Intention Framework

Alex shared her work framework involving patience, purpose, and intention. This is aligned with her business model and also a no-nonsense approach to coming up with solutions for her clients. Some valuable insights that Alexis shared are:

• Patience - this entails planning in advance and not over-complicating things. 
• Purpose - having clarity on purpose and the “why” of doing things will lead you to plan with intention.
• Intention - this is credibility through action.

This benefits Alexis both personally and professionally. She explains, “So not only with the clients that I work with and telling them how to help them and what they need to do and what patience in their context means and purpose and intention in their context means, but like with candidates who want to make a move, it's the same simple concepts that are applied, but just you're adapting them to different scenarios.”

Dislodging Self-Limiting Beliefs

A lot of us can relate to another key topic that Alexis and I discussed: overcoming self-doubt. When I asked her about the biggest challenges she had to face, she mentioned that her biggest obstacle is self-limiting beliefs. I admired how Alexis transparently laid out how she felt when she had to deal with insecurity, an impostor mindset, and self-doubts. We then discussed how she is able to greatly improve her confidence with the support of her husband. She also talked about the value of joining a coaching group. 

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro 

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Alexis Alvarez Bio and Contact Info

Career Rockstars Founder, recruitment expert, and diversity advocate, Alexis

Alvarez is a steward of capital...human capital. She delivers value-creating impact

working with L&MM PE firms who want to increase their diverse hires and broaden

their talent pools.

With 15 years of recruitment experience, Alexis knows that firms simply cannot hire

high-caliber diverse talent with a low-caliber, or non-existent, diversity strategy. She

understands that attracting, and retaining, diverse talent requires patience, purpose,

conscious effort, and intention. This approach, together with her positive energy and

ability to find and attract outstanding talent, make her a true talent partner.

Alexis’ commitment to diversity started as a child growing up in Los Angeles. As a

first-generation American, she was raised to embrace different cultures, races, and

religions, understanding from a very early age that being different was not a

weakness but a strength. That upbringing has served as a guiding principle

throughout her life: different is good and more often than not, great!

Prior to founding Career Rockstars, Alexis led recruitment efforts in the European

and Middle Eastern digital TV spaces, working with HBO Europe and StarzPlay Arabia. She holds an MBA from IE Business School in Madrid, Spain, and a BS in International Business from CSU Northridge. She is a lover of languages and considers herself a hard-core Godfather fan, and when not playing referee to her three young children, tries to squeeze in time for reading and sewing.

• Alexis on LinkedIn
• Career Rockstars website link
• Take the Stage Podcast link

People and Resources Mentioned

• The 2023 Future of Recruiting LinkedIn Report

• Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call
• Mark on LinkedIn
• Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
• Mark on Facebook
• Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

• TRR#154 How to Improve Equity, Diversity, and Inclusion in Your Recruitment Process, with Jo Major
• TRR#102 How Recruiters Can Promote Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion, with Chikere Igbokwe 
• TRR#57 Diversity as a Differentiator – How Recruiters Can Attract 70% More Diverse Talent, with Helen McGuire
• TRR#12 The Commercial Value of Diversity and Inclusion in Recruitment, with Raj Tulsiani

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"Selling without selling" refers to an approach or technique that focuses on building authentic relationships with potential customers and meeting their needs without resorting to pushy sales tactics. The goal is to create a positive and genuine interaction with prospects, building long-lasting relationships.

This can be easier said than done, that is why our special guest, Mike Silverstein of Direct Recruiters, Inc shares how he applies this to his practice and he has helped developed multi-million dollar billers. 

Mike is the Managing Partner of DRI's healthcare IT and life sciences practice. In 2014, Mike was inducted into the Pinnacle Society, which is the nation's premier consortium of top recruiters within the direct placement and search industry. In 2016, Mike was named one of the most influential millennials by Staffing Industry Analysts.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [04:28] How getting fired from his first job led … Mike got into recruitment.
• [08:16] Building a practice from scratch in the middle of a recession
• [17:15] Figuratively depositing in the emotional bank account - hear young Mike’s strategy for building relationships with senior executives in transition.
• [22:30] Mike reveals why you should “Never sell on the first call!”
• [31:20] Practices on leads tracking and follow-up.
• [33:19] Why you must hire team members to complement what you’re good at.
• [38:24] Lessons learned in trying to grow a team.
• [39:56] The one thing you cannot teach your team members.
• [43:41] Hiring, mentoring, and developing million dollar billers.

“Never Sell on the First Call!”

Mike revealed the best advice he got when he was just starting as a recruiter. 

He shared, “I learned that if you can resist the urge to sell on the first call … you're going to land in the friend or, you know, consultant bucket versus the person that five minutes into a call is asking for something. And if you can resist the urge to sell on the first call, you'll have carte blanche to ask for stuff for the rest of your relationship because you've established yourself in the right part of somebody's brain.”

I believe that this approach has contributed greatly to Mike’s success. Understanding the value of being genuine and authentic allowed him to gain respect from potential clients and other stakeholders. Mike shared how he applied these principles to grow a multi-million dollar practice.

Hiring, Mentoring, and Developing Million Dollar Billers

A fulfilling accomplishment in Mike’s career is how he hired and developed million dollar billers in their firm. Some of the talent he hired as rookies have gone on to become Partners. What are the key factors in build a team of high performers?

Here are some insights that Mike shared:

1. You cannot teach self-motivation: “I think one of the things I learned is you can't teach motivation. Like people have to be self-motivated. You can teach the skill, but you can't teach them motivation.” 
2. Build Relationships: Mike loves talking to people, whether it be candidates or senior executives, and would happily add value even if he is not pitching any business during the initial interactions. He described it as “depositing into the relationship bank”, which keeps him top-of-mind when there are positions that need to be filled.
3. Be Top-of-Funnel Driven: “I've had to learn the hard way that you can't be relying on any one customer or any one relationship. And so I am obsessed with top of the funnel,” Mike says. Being consistent in top-of-funnel activities like marketing and business development is key to consistent billing.

Complement Your Strengths with the Right Team Members

Another topic that resonated with me is our discussion on the value of hiring the right team members. A lot of solo recruiters and recruitment entrepreneurs tend to attemp to do everything on their own. But the most successful business owners I know are those who know how to delegate and hire team members that complement their strengths. 

Mike shared how this has been a game-changer for him when he hired an experienced partner to complement his strengths and weaknesses. He said, “And if recruiting is a combination of art and science, I'm the artist and she's the scientist.”

If you are a solo practitioner, you might be missing out on opportunities by not building a team. If you're in a boat rowing by yourself,you can only go so fast and so far. But if you have a whole crew who are rowing in the same direction, man, you can really motor!

Our Sponsor

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro 

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Mike Silverstein Bio and Contact Info

Mike Silverstein is the Managing Partner of DRI's Healthcare IT Division and Life Sciences Practice. In 2014, Mike was inducted into The Pinnacle Society, the nation’s premier consortium of top recruiters within the direct placement and search industry. In 2016, Mike was named one of the most "" by Staffing Industry Analysts, the global advisor of staffing and workforce solutions.

Mike founded the Healthcare IT practice in 2008. Under his leadership, the Life Sciences Practice has expanded and the HIT practice area has grown significantly year-over-year. Additionally, in 2011, Mike helped found what is now DRI's Hospital IT group as a Managing Partner, which is concentrated largely on Hospital IT staffing and consulting. With a focus on recruiting from the Executive Level and C-Suite through individual contributor roles within healthcare software and services organizations nationwide, Mike's diverse background helps him to identify exceptional individuals from startup companies to Fortune 500 corporations. Mike’s consultative style along with his personable approach enables him to develop trusted relationships with clients and investors in order to deliver high-caliber talent capable of leading companies in competitive and fast-changing business environments. Mike Silverstein is known as one of the top healthcare IT recruiters and life sciences recruiters in the United States.

Mike graduated Cum Laude in Marketing and Entrepreneurship from Miami University, Oxford, Ohio. He is a Cleveland sports fan, and enjoys music, socializing with friends, and discussing politics.

• Mike on LinkedIn
• Direct Recruiters website link
• Direct Recruiters on Facebook
• Direct Recruiters on YouTube
• Direct Recruiters on Twitter

People and Resources Mentioned

• Pinnacle Society
• The book mentioned: The Five Dysfunctions of a Team 
• Kasey Kaiser on LinkedIn 
• Dan Charney on LinkedIn
• Fernando Espinosa on LinkedIn 
• Norman Volsky on LinkedIn 
• Chris Shoettelkotte on LinkedIn 
• Rich Rosen on LinkedIn 
• Crelate - recruiting software

• Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call
• Mark on LinkedIn
• Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
• Mark on Facebook
• Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

• TRR#182 Growth Mindset: How to Conquer Self Doubt and Become a Top Biller, with Fernando Espinosa
• How to Build a $6M+ Practice by Hiring and Training Top Performers, with Norman Volsky
• How to Create a Unique Value Proposition and Sell Retained Executive Search, with Chris Shoettelkotte
• Think Like a Big Biller: How to Get Repeat Business and Referrals, with Rich Rosen

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If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters.  “Support the podcast and leave a review here”.

The most successful recruiters and recruitment business owners are constantly learning and evolving. While average performers often think they know it all, the top 10% are never satisfied in their quest for continuous improvement.

Someone who has reinvented himself multiple times over his 30-year recruitment career is my special guest, Fernando Espinosa. 

I hope you enjoy this interview as much as I did. Fernando is an incredible recruiter who’s filled as many as 500 roles in one year - that’s more than a placement per day!  But the reason I most admire and respect Fernando is his humility. 

Fernando has navigated several economic recessions and business setbacks. In the process, he has overcome self-doubt and limiting beliefs numerous times throughout his career. His passion for personal growth and development stems from his sincere desire to become the best version of himself on a daily basis.

Fernando is the President and CEO of Top Notch Finders, Inc., a member of Sanford Rose Associates (SRA) Network. With over 3 decades of excellence in the field, Fernando’s firm recruits top-tier executives for manufacturing sites in Mexico, LATAM, and the United States. He also has expertise in executive roles across Europe, Asia, and the Americas.

Fernando’s been a member of The Pinnacle Society since 2007, a collective of the top 80 headhunters in North America. 

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [01:54] How Fernando got into the recruiting industry.
• [04:52] Placing 30 to 40 people per month and launching Top Notch Finders.
• [10:47] Making more than one placement a day - how Fernando did it before the internet!
• [15:43] Practice makes progress - Fernando shares how he became fluent in English.
• [18:21] Transitioning from a successful recruiter to becoming a recruitment business owner and returning as a solo recruiter.
• [22:00] Reflection on overcoming limiting beliefs.
• [34:00] Why and how you should avoid the “Lion Syndrome.”
• [35:45] Shifting from contingent to retained and engaged.
• [46:04] What makes Fernando one of the top recruiters in the US? Hear his incredible story of how he filled 500 positions in a year.
• [53:18] The biggest lessons Fernando has learned that make him a successful recruiter today.
• [55:07] Why Fernando invests in coaching and personal development despite his great successes.

Become a Successful Recruiter by Overcoming Self-Limiting Beliefs 

A key topic that really resonated with me in this conversation with Fernando is his mindset on limiting beliefs. 

He shared his story of resilience when the 2008-09 Global Financial Crisis hit their recruitment business: “We went from $6 million to about $500,000 in sales. So we had to let go of many people. It was a brutal experience. We felt like we were, we had imposter syndrome because we weren't what we thought we were.”

He had to part ways with his business partner and he had to start over by setting up his solo shop. This is how he described the situation: “I had to start all over again… And of course, also the limiting beliefs. When you have limiting beliefs and you don't know that you have limiting beliefs, that affects your ability to reinvent yourself, to create a better version of yourself. And I have tons of limiting beliefs, self-limiting beliefs.”

Can you relate to Fernando’s experience? Have you faced a setback so hard that it affected your mindset and you would not know where to start? You will likely be inspired by how Fernando overcame this hurdle by reinventing himself throughout the years and improving in many different ways.

Evolving from Contingency to Retained Recruiter - and Billing $700,000 in 8 Months with One Client

I have always advocated the value of the retained or engaged search model as a win-win solution for both clients and recruiters. That is why I was interested to hear how Fernando transitioned from 100% contingent to retained search. He shared mainly two key pointers in doing so:

• Understanding the dynamics of engaged and retained search processes.
• Overcoming the biggest obstacle in transitioning to a retained - his own beliefs.

Fernando shared his first retainer project and how he started to engage his clients in this new approach by working on positions that most competitors and talent acquisition teams are struggling to fill. He then asked for a low retainer - of one to two thousand dollars, just to get the commitment of the client. He then turned it into an incredible $700k billings in eight months!

At the time that this episode is published, Fernando is getting a 60% success rate in his retained search.

Continuously Reinventing Yourself in a 30-Year Recruiting Career 

My main takeaways from this episode are Fernado’s astounding humility and appetite for learning. As he mentioned, he has reinvented himself continuously in his 30-year recruitment career. We actually recently started working together as part of our coaching group. This is despite him already billing $1M+ yearly, having already extensive training from SRA, being a member of Pinnacle, and doing so many things right in his recruitment business.

This is how he concluded our conversation:

“I believe that it is very critical to develop the best version of yourself on a daily basis. When you settle with the version of yourself, you automatically put a stop to your growing and your developing. I always believe that I don't have all the answers… I always know that there are people with different perspectives, different ideas, and different thought processes that I can learn from and that I can enrich myself. And I'm willing to do that. I'm willing to listen to an expert recruiting coach that has been very successful helping other recruiting owners.”

Our Sponsor

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro 

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Fernando Espinosa Bio and Contact Info

Fernando has more than three decades of search experience in search. Since 1994 involved in assisting clients from North America, Europe, and Asia to solve a variety of dedicated search, recruiting, outplacement, employee engagement and retention, cultural sensitivity, and other human-resource-related issues in their Mexico, Latin America, and US/Mexico border region operations.

He is the first credentialed member of The Pinnacle Society from Mexico. Membership in The Pinnacle Society is limited to 75 of the highest-performing recruiters in North America. Membership is attained only by meeting an exceptionally high standard of recruiting production and after a thorough review and approval process by its Board of Directors. Member of the Board of Directors for NAPS (National Association of Personnel Services). District Director for the US West Coast.

• Fernando on LinkedIn
• Top Notch Finders website link
• Top Notch Finders on Facebook
• Top Notch Finders on YouTube
• Sanford Rose website link

People and Resources Mentioned

• The Pinnacle Society
• Karen Schmidt on LinkedIn
• Jeff Kaye on LinkedIn

• Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call
• Mark on LinkedIn
• Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
• Mark on Facebook
• Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

Sales is the lifeblood of every business. It’s almost impossible to scale your recruitment company without a consistent flow of new business. Yet many recruitment agencies are lacking an effective and repeatable sales process.

My next guest, Alex Elliott, has designed an effective client acquisition system that yields consistent, predictable results. It enables him and his team to focus their efforts on the right things, optimize the customer experience, and make data-driven decisions to drive revenue growth and business success.

However, designing and executing an effective business development system is easier said than done! In this episode, Alex reveals how they designed their client acquisition funnel around four core sales processes.

Alex also shared best practices and tips on how to consistently share value-adding LinkedIn posts, and how to structure your business for scale.

This is Alex’s second time on the show. The last time was way back in December 2019, before the pandemic. He shared the story of co-founding Liquid Personnel with Jonathan Coxon and how they scaled to a 100M revenue business and became the number one market leader in their space before exiting via a sale to Private Equity. 

Alex is now an investor and Strategic Advisor with Strive, headquartered in Manchester. Strive provides Go To Market professionals for disruptive VC-backed tech startups and scaleups across EMEA and the US.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [03:46] The three steps to consistently post good LinkedIn content. 
• [10:30] How to structure an effective LinkedIn post using the AIDA formula.
• [14:18] Mark and Alex share perspectives on LinkedIn posts’ return on effort.
• [19:15] Why Alex invested in Strive Recruitment.
• [23:30] Alex discusses how they structure their business for scale. 
• [36:15] The four core sales processes to design an effective client acquisition system.
• [44:53] How to use Sales KPIs the right way to get better results.
• [55:18] Core marketing channels that Alex’s team focuses on.

Consistently Sharing Value-Adding Linked Content with a Strong Opening Hook

Posting on LinkedIn consistently can build your professional brand, expand your network, attract top talent, engage with your audience, and promote your organization. If you are a recruitment business leader, you should set an example for your team.

Alex shared his thought process on why he consistently posts:

 “I think because I've gone into the SaaS space … one of the things I noticed early on sort of going into that industry, a lot of the leaders, the sales leaders, the go-to-market leaders, and also just the CEOs within that space take personal responsibility for building their own brand. Which in turn has a huge, potentially huge positive impact on the business's brand. So I think I saw that and I was kind of motivated to see whether we could do the same.”

Alex revealed his three steps to be consistent in creating good LinkedIn posts:

1. Decide to make posting on LinkedIn a habit.
2. Create a workflow. For example Alex writes all his LinkedIn content for the week on Sunday afternoon.
3. Bank your ideas. Alex has a note on his phone where he captures ideas throughout the week. Then when he sits down to create content, he can bang out multiple high-quality posts quite quickly.

He elaborated on how he formulates his content using the AIDA (attention, interest, desire, action) principle. We also talked about our perspectives on the return on effort on LinkedIn posting.

How to Structure Your Recruitment Agency for Scale with Career Pathways

“We have multiple career pathways… If you want to scale a recruitment business, you can’t just keep adding heads and heads and heads. You have to build some of the infrastructure which is going to support that growth. One of those things is career pathways.” 

I am 100% aligned with Alex regarding the importance of creating a well defined career path for your team members. For Strive - it is about ensuring that a framework or path is in place for their new joiners. Specifically, they design these paths to ensure that they work on their team’s strengths, rather than the usual progression of biller to manager. 

Alex shared the career path layout for their team members covering delivery, business development, account management, technical, and management routes. We also discussed how the 360, 270, or 180 models fit their organization.

How to Design an Effective Sales Strategy and Funnel

Another topic that I love in this conversation is how Strive have designed their client acquisition and sales funnel. Focusing on business development and marketing is an absolute must for building a sustainable and resilient recruitment business. Doing this minimizes the chance of getting into a feast and famine rollercoaster that many in the industry are experiencing.

You will find value in Elliott’s explanation of the four core sales processes:

1. Territory Management
2. Call Management
3. Opportunity Management
4. Account Management

Alex also generously shared the platforms or media that they mostly focus on for their business development campaigns.

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here:  https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Alex Elliott Bio and Contact Info

Alex is an Investor and Strategic Director at Strive. Following the sale of his recruitment firm, Liquid Personnel, in 2016 (PE sale), he has now joined the Strive Board of Directors to help scale the business and support our international expansion. A Quote Alex lives by is "Excellence is achieved by mastery of the fundamentals".

• Alex on LinkedIn
• Strive website link
• Strive on Facebook
• Strive on Instagram

People and Resources Mentioned

• Adam Richardson (Strive co-Founder) on LinkedIn 
• Harrison Scott (Strive co-Founder) on LinkedIn
• Cracking the Sales Management Code by Jason Jordan

• Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call
• Mark on LinkedIn
• Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
• Mark on Facebook
• Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

• TRR#2 Setting Up A Recruitment Business For Scale with Jonathan Coxon and Alex Elliott

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Is it possible to exit a small, boutique search practice where the owner is one of the primary billers? My special guest, Stephan Aschenbrenner, has found a way of making it possible. 

Stephan is the CEO of EO Executives, a franchise network with offices throughout Europe. In 2011, he joined EO executives to build out their German territory. And after four years, they became one of Germany's top 50 executive search and selection firms. Stefan became the managing director of EO International Group in 2016 and became the owner in 2019.

Stephan’s goal is to help executive search professionals to build and scale a partner-led executive search firm and achieve annual billings of 2-4 million. The idea is to build a sustainable business that could be sold to a successor with a significant equity value.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [03:52] Stephan discusses the challenges and solutions to sustainably scale small boutique executive search firms.
• [10:40] How Stephan’s retail background relates to growing recruitment businesses through partnership and franchising.
• [14:05] Helping franchise partners to grow - Stephan shares the tools they provide.
• [18:50] Leverage Level - enabling partners to maximize their time and productivity by providing assistants.
• [21:45] Team Level - spreading business relationships within the partner’s team.
• [26:30] Developing others - billing while building teams.
• [33:50] Fostering a culture of training and coaching.
• [43:33] Finding and retaining the right partners in a franchise setup.
• [49:50] Building the equity value of a search firm.
• [54:43] Why 12 is the magic number?
• [57:32] Leveraging technology platforms.

Enhancing Small Boutique Firms' Growth through the Power of Franchising

Scaling an executive search firm is very challenging. Stephan described from his own experience how it can be disappointing to invest time and an immense amount of funding to train and onboard new consultants who will end up leaving your business.

As Stephan shared, “You're always putting the money from the strong builders and investing in the newcomers. And then the other thing is that's what we learned in the UK especially…the better the people are, the sooner they just go for a higher paycheck. So it always was a kind of high turnover. We spent so much time training the people and the people said, ‘thank you for the training. This was probably the best training I ever got. But sorry, now I go to London, for a bigger paycheck.’ So it was a constant turnover in the company.”

I think this is the experience for many owners who want to grow - the frustration and difficulty can cause many to give up pursuing their dreams of building their businesses. In our coaching program called Apex, we have dedicated business owners who are looking to scale their recruitment business between 5-25 people. We know the difficulty of achieving a strong successful company - but it is absolutely doable!

Stephan shared another solution - that is through a partner-led franchise business model. This business model is where they find committed recruitment entrepreneurs who are senior executives themselves, train them, and give them the processes to run a successful search firm. 

The value they provide, as discussed by Stephan throughout this episode is helping recruitment-business owners to:

• Grow their team without the risk of investing in expensive fee earners.
• Grow their team while remaining to be a strong fee earner at the same time.
• Help them attract high-fee earners who will stay with them for 5-10 years.
• Have additional revenue streams.
• Prepare the business for succession planning.

Why Business Leaders Should Embrace Coaching

Stephan and I discussed the value of business owners and leaders embracing coaching. That is, being coachable and becoming coaches themselves. Stephan says, “Coaching is one of our favorite themes in EO… I am a certified business coach now… We are now training all of our leaders in this coaching habit as well.”

If you are a recruitment business owner, I most certainly believe that coaching is a top priority. It is a skill that can be developed and improved, and can certainly be a game–changer for your business.

Leveraging Technology to Support Partners

On top of training, EO also provides technology platforms to its partners. Stephan shared about Executive Intro (their white label version of i-intro), a technology platform that allows their partners to differentiate their service and win retained searches. They also provide CRM and ATS platforms for all their partners, allowing them and all their partners to work on the same systems and leverage each other’s networks to make more placements.

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Recruitment Entrepreneur is the world’s leading Private Equity firm specializing in the international recruitment industry. If you’ve dreamed of starting, scaling, and selling your recruitment business, this is your chance. James Caan and his team at Recruitment Entrepreneur are actively seeking ambitious recruiters in who they can invest. They provide everything you need to grow a successful recruitment business including funding, financial expertise, coaching and mentoring, operational strategy, back-office support, marketing, and talent attraction solutions. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Start a conversation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/vc

Stephan Aschenbrenner Bio and Contact Info

Stephan used to work in large international companies as an employed executive. He loved all the benefits and the “security” such firms could provide him. Then the dot-com bubble burst, the world went into recession, and he and his wife found themselves unemployed at the same time.

This was the time he decided to change his career and Stephan started his first company. In the following 10 years, Stephan and his team helped more than 2.000 entrepreneurs to find their right business idea and actually get started. During the financial crisis of 2009 he started EO Executives in Germany and within 4 years had built it into one of the TOP 50 Executive Search Firms in Germany.

In 2016 he became CEO of EO International and in 2019 he became the owner of the EO Group. Stephan is a certified business coach and during the Covid Crisis, he became a partner in the biggest business coaching network worldwide.

• Stephan on LinkedIn
• EO Executive website link
• EO Executive on Facebook

People and Resources Mentioned

• i-intro website link

• Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call
• Mark on LinkedIn
• Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
• Mark on Facebook
• Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

• TRR#91 How to Start, Scale, and Sell Your Recruitment Business in 7 Years, with Karla Reffold
• TRR#123 How a Recruitment Business Launched, Scaled, and Sold for $12,000,000 in 5 Years, with James Caan
• TRR#111 Enjoy Exponential Growth: How to Scale and Sell a Recruitment Firm for €32 million, with Tom Hopkinson

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

Billing $6M+ in 2022 is no small feat, and my special guest, Norman Volsky revealed how his team of 10 was able to achieve a phenomenal per-desk average. Norman shared valuable insights on building your team and attracting high-potential recruiters, using an internship program to establish a talent pipeline, and how to approach the challenging role of a billing manager.

Norman is a managing partner at DRI. Since 2011, he's led the digital health practice at DRI and has built a 10-person team billing $6M+ in revenue in 2022. The Pinnacle Society welcomed Norm as a member in 2021. And interestingly, in 2022, DRI managing partners merged with Kay Bassman and Sanford Rose Associates to form Starfish Partners. 

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [01:30] Norman shares why he started his podcast.
• [03:35] How Norman got into recruiting through an internship.
• [07:40] Factors leading to becoming a successful billing manager.
• [16:54] How DRi way of working is different from most recruitment firms.
• [23:15] Why finding top clients matters as much as finding top candidates.
• [30:59] Avoid the “something better than nothing” mentality.
• [32:20] How an internship setup fits a recruiting business.
• [38:14] Topic on internal recruitment: how to attract recruiters with the highest potential.
• [44:40] Sharing the success of their internship program.
• [46:49] Becoming the best example for your team and focusing on the other party’s best interest.
• [54:26] Networking into companies - calling a level up to get referred down.
• [58:04] How Norman juggles his billings while supporting his team - 3 focus areas. 
• [01:04:30] Norman shares their flat team structure.

How to Adopt the Internship Model to Build Recruitment Teams

It may be a rare practice in the recruitment industry, but it’s worth exploring how an internship program could benefit your business. Norman shared the story of how he got into recruitment - from starting as an intern with no salary to becoming a Managing Partner. As the first intern in the history of DRI, his firsthand experience shows that an internship is effective in finding recruiters with the highest potential. 

He revealed how they are using this model in building their team, which has proven to be very successful. Norman’s team of 10 is billing more than $6m, which is phenomenal per desk average. He shared their thought process in implementing their internship program:

“I was the first and only unpaid intern, but it ended up working out well, so no hard feelings. But our paid internship program is purely in our opinion an opportunity for us to get some talented. individuals exposed to recruiting and for them to get a couple of months of experience and to know whether it's for them. I think a lot of recruiting, it's a great career for a lot of people, but it's not for everyone. It is a lot of rejection. It is a lot of hard work. It is a lot of betting on yourself. Some people want more security than that. Some people want a little bit more of a defined career path as opposed to a lot of ambiguity. So for the right people... It's an amazing career and we want people exposed to that.” 

Would you consider creating an internship program for your recruitment business? This could help you build your team, create a solid talent pipeline, and even boost your branding as an employer.

Juggling the Tasks as a Billing Manager 

Norman functions as a Managing Partner and a billing manager - which I believe is the toughest job in recruiting. You're managing your own workload, your own client base, and doing deals. And at the same time, you're also training, coaching, mentoring, managing your team, and trying to get that balance right is challenging. Norman walked me through how he is able to cover these tasks with great success. Here are the takeaways:

• It is really important to start with why and focus on your own motivation.
• Learn from the best, and surround yourself with the best people.
• Build your team smartly, think outside the box, and be different from other hiring companies.
• Practice what you preach, lead from the front.
• Overcoming impostor syndrome with the right mindset.

As Norman puts it, “I think hiring the right people makes your life a lot easier. So that definitely stacks the deck in your favor. I think the other thing is you've got to practice what you preach. You got to lead from the front. You got to show a work ethic and the standard of excellence and the importance of quality. And if you lead by example, you know, people want to rise to that standard. I think that's really, really important. “

The Three Focus Areas When Scaling Your Business

Norman also revealed the three focus areas which are key to his team’s success. You will hear him discuss the importance of finding top clients and why it matters as much as finding top candidates. He also shared how to attract the right talent when it comes to internal recruitment and the value of delivering the best training, coaching, and mentoring. Lastly, we talked about being strategic when allocating assignments to your team members and ensuring that you are making great matches for your clients.

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Recruitment Entrepreneur is the world’s leading Private Equity firm specializing in the international recruitment industry. If you’ve dreamed of starting, scaling, and selling your recruitment business, this is your chance. James Caan and his team at Recruitment Entrepreneur are actively seeking ambitious recruiters in who they can invest. They provide everything you need to grow a successful recruitment business including funding, financial expertise, coaching and mentoring, operational strategy, back-office support, marketing, and talent attraction solutions. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Start a conversation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/vc

Norman Volsky Bio and Contact Info

Norman is a Managing Partner at DRI (2011-Present). Norm built the Digital Health team at DRI beginning in 2017 and his 10-person team has scaled it to over $6M in revenue in 2022. The Pinnacle Society welcomed Norm as a member in 2021. Along w/ the rest of the DRI Managing Partners, DRI merged w/ Kaye Bassman and Sanford Rose Associates in 2022 to form Starfish Partners. Norm spoke at the SRA Conference in 2022 (the topic was Best Practices working w/ Venture Capital backed companies) and will be speaking on the Pinnacle Society Panel at NAPS in 2023.

• Norman on LinkedIn
• Direct Recruiters Inc. website link
• Listen to the Digital Health Heavy Weights Podcast
• The Pinnacle Society website link

People and Resources Mentioned

• Mike Silverstein on LinkedIn

• Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call
• Mark on LinkedIn
• Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
• Mark on Facebook
• Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

Top billers typically have one or more “cornerstone clients.” 

These key accounts are ones you can build your business on because they use you exclusively and give you lots of repeat business. My special guest, Katherine Jerald, is someone who’s mastered the art of client development. 

Katherine is the founder of Elray Search, a firm that is committed to solving the biggest talent needs of middle-market clients in the aerospace, satellite, and defense firm. She’s also a member of the Pinnacle Society. 

What’s fascinating about Katherine’s story is that she’s a second-generation recruiter. She remembers the first day her father opened a recruiting firm. She actually got to skip school at the age of 12 to help set up the office computers. 

Katherine later rejoined her father's search firm, FPC Portland in 2015 as an executive recruiter, and opened an FPC office in Lake Oswego, Washington. During her tenure within the FPC franchise network, Katherine was the five-time winner of FPC's “Top Recruiter” Award.

In this episode, Katherine shares the skillset and mindset that enabled her to become a top producer and successful business owner. She reveals some killer strategies for winning and developing clients, plus how she transitioned from contingency to 100% engaged search.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [02:06] How Katherine’s father influenced her career path as a recruiter and owner.
• [06:13] Was it easier or harder working in a family recruitment business?
• [11:30] Success factors to becoming a five-time top recruiter in the FPC network. (client-side development, grind, and hustle)
• [16:48] Strategies for identifying, breaking into, and caring for the correct accounts.
• [21:14] Pitching a relationship instead of a transaction in a recruitment call.
• [25:16] Katherine shares her process for developing client relationships.
• [32:12] How commitment plays a big part in Katherine’s success.
• [33:24] Transitioning from being a top recruiter to launching her own firm - Katherine shares her story.
• [37:29] Discussion and thought process on engaged versus contingent search.
• [45:49] Creating your “irresistible offer” - most recruiters don’t understand this!
• [49:55] Hiring and building your business - how Katherine started growing her team.
• [58:06] Katherine reveals her selling style.

How to Become a Top Recruiter: Hustle, Grind and Focus on Client Development

During her tenure at FPC, Katherine was the five-time winner of FPC’s top recruiter award. What’s her secret?

According to Katherine, “The baseline is you gotta hustle and you gotta grind. And most people do not want to work that hard.” But of course, that can't be all there is to it because I also have seen recruiters work really hard but still not get the same results that Katherine does. 

She then revealed the differentiator: “I would say it's been really connecting and developing the client side.” Katherine is aware of the importance of client development.  She shared her strategies for finding the right account, landing that business, and caring for the relationship. This strategy leads to her getting referrals which leads to more businesses and clients. 

Katherine also gave tips on how to pitch without being too salesy, how to establish relationships during a recruitment call instead of being purely transactional, and her process for developing those accounts.

Transitioning From Contingency to an Engaged Search

The most exciting part of Katherine’s story is how she recently launched her own recruitment firm, Elray Search. They officially launched on April 1 of this year, and in their first quarter they’ve taken off like a rocket ship, which is fitting since they specialize in aerospace and defence.

One of the key shifts that Katherine made when she started on her own is that she hasn’t accepted any contingent searches since their launch. How does she pitch this engaged search to her clients? Here’s some of her verbiage:

• “We ask for ten grand to kick things off.”
• “What you can expect from me is weekly update calls. We do a video chat, we'll record them so I can share them with my team as well.”
• “Hey, I'm gonna do your first interview for you. Just tell me what questions you want me to ask. You can watch it on video when you're on the airplane.”
• “If you're not happy with what we're doing after three weeks, I'll give you your ten grand back.” 

Katherine added, “Guess how many have asked for it (the $10k deposit) back? Zero!”

Katherine also discussed how she started to build her team - having just hired their third member very recently, and how it helped her be free from the 360 model.

Pitching it the Right Way

I love Katherine’s mindset when it comes to pitching: “So the whole like the premise is, nobody likes a hard sell anymore. And this is totally contradictory to what we, you know, how it was taught 20 years ago, where you're trying to say, ‘Hey, can I accept on your behalf?’ That doesn't work anymore.”

For Katherine, it is all about attraction rather than promotion. By asking the right questions, she is able to nudge a candidate to start talking and building a relationship, which eventually leads to successful placements. Katherine added, “I tell them, ‘Hey, I'm never gonna try to talk you into something. At the end of the day, you're always gonna do what's best for you and your family, and everybody should understand that. And if they don't, they don't have the right intentions’.”

Katherine shared so many golden nuggets, but that little script was my absolute favourite. Could the same approach be effective for you and your recruiters?

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Recruitment Entrepreneur is the world’s leading Private Equity firm specializing in the international recruitment industry. If you’ve dreamed of starting, scaling, and selling your recruitment business, this is your chance. James Caan and his team at Recruitment Entrepreneur are actively seeking ambitious recruiters in who they can invest. They provide everything you need to grow a successful recruitment business including funding, financial expertise, coaching and mentoring, operational strategy, back-office support, marketing, and talent attraction solutions. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Start a conversation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/vc

Katherine Jerald Bio and Contact Info

Katherine is a second-generation recruiter. She remembered the first day her father opened a recruiting firm; she got to skip school at the age of 12 to set up office computers. 

She received her bachelor’s in business from the University of Oregon in 2004 and her MBA in finance from Washington State University in 2015. 

She rejoined her father’s search firm, FPC Portland, in 2015 as an executive recruiter and opened an FPC office in Lake Chelan, Washington. She specializes in defense, satellite, and aerospace technologies. During her tenure at FPC, she was the five-time winner of FPC’s Top Recruiter award. 

In 2022, Katherine launched Elray Search, LLC, a firm that is committed to solving the biggest talent needs of middle market clients in the aerospace, satellite, and defense firm. 

Katherine is a member of the Pinnacle Society. 

She was a 2022 Pinnacle Conference Speaker and a 2022 Whitman Partners Conference Speaker. She is also an active member of SSPI (Space & Satellite Professionals International) and Leading Ladies of Aerospace. 

• Katherine on LinkedIn
• Elray Search website link
• Elray Search on LinkedIn
• The Pinnacle Society website link

People and Resources Mentioned

• Seven Ways to Get New Clients Fast Ebook
• $100M Offers: How To Make Offers So Good People Feel Stupid Saying No, by Alex Hormozi
• Crelate
• Jon Bartos on LinkedIn
• Josh Braun on LinkedIn
• Allan Fisher on LinkedIn
• Wes Ashworth on LinkedIn

• Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call
• Mark on LinkedIn
• Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
• Mark on Facebook
• Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

• TRR#166 How to Bill $1,000,000 For Ten Years Straight and Grow a Successful Team, with Allan Fisher
• TRR#132 How to Break Out of a Slump and Bill an Amazing $420k in 5 Months, with Wes Ashworth

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

Starting a recruitment agency is hard. Being a great recruiter is no guarantee you’ll be a successful business owner. There are thousands of competent, hard working recruiters who struggle when they go out on their own.

That’s why my next guest, Mike Williams, is so remarkable. In his first 12 months, he billed $900,000. He’s now up to $1,200,000 since he started the business 15 months ago. 

Mike is the founder and President of Carnegie Partners, based in Charlotte, North Carolina. He’s a manufacturing and engineering recruitment specialist. I’m honored to count Mike among our clients here at Recruitment Coach.

You’ll enjoy hearing Mike’s journey because he reveals some of the secrets to his success while being honest about the moments of self-doubt that we can all relate to.

One of the things Mike has mastered is creating original content on LinkedIn as a key part of his business development strategy. In this interview, Mike shares how to generate content ideas and posts consistently on LinkedIn. Plus we discuss the importance of posting videos to engage with your target audience. 

Mike has an impressive track record as a top producer. In his first 5 years in agency recruitment, he won "Perm Rookie of the Year" plus President’s Club 5 years in a row. He then founded Carnegie Search in February 2022. 

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [01:15] How Mike got into recruiting and started his own business.
• [06:30] Why recruitment leaders must create a defined career path for their team members.
• [08:35] Mike’s thoughts on how to retain your top recruiters.
• [11:37] From top recruiter to successful recruitment entrepreneur: two key success factors in hitting the ground running. 
• [16:06] Building relationships by meeting clients in person and visiting manufacturing companies.
• [25:22] How digital marketing, social media, and LinkedIn played a critical role in Mike’s success.
• [28:33] Mike shares his LinkedIn strategy - how it helped him win business and the barriers he had to overcome.
• [35:35] How to overcome fear when posting content online.
• [41:24] How to generate ideas and create content consistently.
• [49:05] Why you should consider posting videos on Linkedin.
• [51:18] Mike revealed the roadblocks he encountered and his big learnings to date.

Hitting the Ground Running - Making a Successful Transition from a Recruiter to a Recruitment Business Owner

How was Mike able to hit the ground running so fast in his transition from a top recruiter to a recruitment business owner? “I think the biggest thing was a little more strategic, which was the niche that we defined … and the geographical area where I decided to do it.” 

Mike’s approach was very analytical, studying the industry trends and looking at the cities with the highest growth. This research even influenced where they decided to live. He explained, “I knew that I liked working locally and meeting the companies and the candidates in person because I felt like it gave just a leg up on the rapport and relationship building.” I think this was a smart move. When I was a recruiter running a desk, we always insisted on visiting our clients in person. Aside from building rapport, as Mike also mentioned, meeting up with clients is a “good litmus test of how serious they are about working with you.”

Posting on LinkedIn to Build Your Brand and Develop New Business

Mike is good at cold calling and routinely makes cold calls to both clients and candidates. However, he also leverages LinkedIn as a key component of his business development strategy.

Mike is a firm believer that you can win clients through LinkedIn. You will hear an amazing story about how Mike received an inbound enquiry from a VP of HR at a billion-dollar company because of a story he posted on LinkedIn. That senior executive became a client and gave Mike a lot of repeat business, which might never have happened without that LinkedIn post. 

Mike also shared how consistent posting helps build a “continued relationship” with potential leads that you may have a cold called before. Here are things that you will find insightful in this section of the episode:

• Why consistent posting can win your clients in the long run.
• Overcoming fear and imposter syndrome when posting LinkedIn content.
• How to generate ideas for your LinkedIn content. 

Why You Need to Post Videos on LinkedIn

What I also admire about Mike’s LinkedIn strategy is how he is not shying away from posting videos. What is his thought process in creating video content? He shared two things:

1. There are “certain topics that don't lend themselves all that well to just text form” and can be best shared with a video.
2. Building digital rapport. Mike puts it this way, “Well, I want to get people to get to know me. So if you want to get people to get to know you, do you think that they're gonna get to know you and feel like they know you better from something that you write or from seeing you talk and looking at you visually? Obviously, visually is better.”

When was the last time that you created and posted a video on LinkedIn? If you want differentiation, increased engagement, and to demonstrate expertise, posting a video is something you can start. In our coaching group, sharing ideas and best practices for posting video content is a recurring discussion topic.

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Recruitment Entrepreneur is the world’s leading Private Equity firm specializing in the international recruitment industry. If you’ve dreamed of starting, scaling, and selling your recruitment business, this is your chance. James Caan and his team at Recruitment Entrepreneur are actively seeking ambitious recruiters in who they can invest. They provide everything you need to grow a successful recruitment business including funding, financial expertise, coaching and mentoring, operational strategy, back-office support, marketing, and talent attraction solutions. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Start a conversation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/vc

Mike Williams Bio and Contact Info

A former top biller for a publicly traded recruitment firm, Mike successfully built a direct hire practice from scratch, earning Rookie of the Year and Presidents Club honors. He was a perennial top 5 producer nationwide, competing in a group of hundreds of recruiters each year.  

An avid networker, passionate career counselor, religious Wall Street Journal reader, and overall headhunting evangelist, Mike has spent years building the skillsets to successfully attract top talent.    

Mike founded Carnegie Partners with the vision of a search firm that would have the following differentiators. A Democratized Structure – An employee-owned company where everyone is eligible for equity partnership. A Culture of Success: Core Values of Continuous Self Improvement and a Determination to Succeed.  World Class Service: A client-centric approach that aims to fully understand our clients and bring their stories to our candidates.

• Mike on LinkedIn
• Carnegie Partners website link

People and Resources Mentioned

• 25 Best Performing LinkedIn Posts
• Rich Rosen on LinkedIn

• Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call
• Mark on LinkedIn
• Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
• Mark on Facebook
• Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

• TRR#67 Think Like a Big Biller: How to Get Repeat Business and Referrals, with Rich Rosen

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

What are the factors that drive short-term results while ensuring the long term success of your recruitment business?

If you have ambitions to grow your recruitment agency, you’ll enjoy my conversation with Kevin Burch the CEO and co-founder of Questpro Consultants. Since they opened in 1996, Questpro has grown to a team of 35 people providing four service offerings: temp, retained/contingency, executive search, and college graduate placement. 

In this episode, Kevin shares three of the secrets that have contributed to sustainable growth for the long run:

1. Fostering a culture of achievement and empathy
2. Diversifying revenue streams
3. The mindset of embracing technology and staying relevant

QuestPro, a staffing and recruiting firm based in Dallas, Texas specializing in the insurance and risk management industry nationwide.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [03:02] Kevin shares his perspective on collaborating, sharing ideas, and being in a community with competitors.
• [08:20] How Kevin got into recruiting.
• [12:42] Staff retention - How QuestPro’s staff tenure is way above average.
• [21:28] Getting rid of toxic people to protect your business culture.
• [27:09] The role that caring and empathy play in your business.
• [34:37] How Questpro diversifies its revenue streams. 
• [42:16] Giving back to the insurance industry with their QGrad Division
• [50:56] Embracing technology to evolve and stay at the forefront.

Protecting Your Business Culture From Toxic People

Over the last 25 years, Kevin has built a team of 35 people which is already an achievement on its own. But the thing that stood out to me is how he is able to retain these talents. He has 3 or 4 people with a tenure of 20 years, several more in the 10-15 range, and some between 5-10 years. Out of his 35 team members, only 11 are under the 2-year tenure. If there is a key factor contributing to this phenomenal achievement, it is Questpro’s working culture. Kevin shared how they celebrate little things and big things, initiate fun contests, and reward and recognize performers. These engagement activities in Questpro are actually initiatives from the top management. For Kevin, the culture that they have is a culture not only of achievement but also of caring and empathy.

Kevin also discussed the importance of protecting their culture by letting go of toxic members that can disrupt team dynamics. He shared their story where they had to let go of large producers for the greater good of the group. Despite being a small company at the time, he was willing to let go of a big revenue contributor for the well-being of others. You will hear how making this move led to their company hitting their best revenues the following year that they made that decision.

Diversify Your Revenue Streams

Kevin has a tremendous experience with permanent, retained, contingency, and contract staffing. He shared a very interesting mix in his business that includes 50-50 on temp and permanent (direct hire). They have four service offerings, namely:

Questpro – Contingency and Retained Search

QTemps – Temporary and Temp-to-Hire Contract Staffing as well as Payroll Services

QGrads – Internships, Entry-Level, and College Graduate Placement

QExecs – Executive Placement through Seasoned Contract Executives

As Kevin said, “The theory that if you are a temp company you surely can’t be a permanent staffing partner, or you can’t be a retained partner is not true.”  They even offer a “Grad Division” which helps keep the industry they serve full of fresh talent. 

For recruitment business owners, the idea of diversifying your revenue stream is critical for success.  If you are currently doing only direct hire or perm placements, for example, consider adding recurring revenue streams such as temporary, contract, or interim.

Keep on Learning and Embracing Technology

Another takeaway from this episode is how Kevin and his team embrace technology. Being a recruiter for more than two decades, Kevin finds the last few years have been interesting and they have seen a big flip in how business is done. We discussed how they are staying at the forefront of their market, such as:

• Using videos when interacting with clients and candidates
• Best practices for using text messaging effectively in their search process
• Discussion of available tech tools and platforms that they use in their business

For Kevin, re-learning and embracing technology is an advantage that contributes to his longevity in the industry.

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

Recruitment Entrepreneur is the world’s leading Private Equity firm specializing in the international recruitment industry. If you’ve dreamed of starting, scaling, and selling your recruitment business, this is your chance. James Caan and his team at Recruitment Entrepreneur are actively seeking ambitious recruiters in who they can invest. They provide everything you need to grow a successful recruitment business including funding, financial expertise, coaching and mentoring, operational strategy, back-office support, marketing, and talent attraction solutions. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Start a conversation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/vc

Kevin Burch Bio and Contact Info

Kevin co-founded Questpro Consultants in August 1996. Kevin went from the next great sportscaster and play-by-play man to sitting behind a desk and dialing for dollars! Now 25 Years later, he can safely say that it is the best decision he ever made. From coast to coast, Kevin and his team match top-notch insurance talent with the absolute best Insurance Carriers, Brokers, TPA, and more.

When he’s not playing KOAR (King of All Recruiters), Kevin is at home with his lovely wife, Lauren, and three sons, that continue to challenge and keep him young: Parker, Owen, and Taylor. Kevin is also addicted and frustrated all at once by golf but loves the game.

• Kevin on LinkedIn
• Questpro website link
• Questpro on Facebook
• Questpro on YouTube
• Questpro on Twitter @Questpro_

People and Resources Mentioned

• Gail Audibert on LinkedIn
• Simon Lafosse on LinkedIn
• Bullhorn
• TextUs
• Hinterview

• Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call
• Mark on LinkedIn
• Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
• Mark on Facebook
• Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

• TRR#116 How Treating People Well Delivers 30% Annual Revenue Growth for 15 Years, with Simon La Fosse
• TRR#153 Meet The Recruiter Who Survived And Thrived Through Four Recessions, with Gail Audibert
• TRR #171 4 Essential Skills that All Recruitment Business Owners Need to Be Successful, with Chris DiNaso

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