The Resilient Recruiter

As we are gearing towards the post-covid environment, we need to keep up with technological and industrial trends to remain relevant. Have you heard of On-Demand Recruiting? Would you like to know about the “Tinderization” of the recruitment process? Listen in to this episode as my special guest, Evan Sohn, shares how their platform intends to disrupt the recruitment continuum using technology and AI platforms.

Evan is the Chairman and CEO of Recruiter.com which is a hiring platform for the world’s largest network of recruiters. They empower businesses to recruit specialized talents faster with virtual teams of recruiters, AI job matching, and video technology. Evan is an experienced entrepreneur and he is an executive or advisor to multiple companies. Typically disruptive technologies and industries such as online marketplaces, payments, instant messaging, data security and mobile computing.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [1:40] Why the need for the recruitment industry to change in a post-covid world.
• [7:13] Evan discusses how Recruitment.com is impacting recruitment with technology.
• [13:15] Disrupting the recruitment continuum and shifts we should make post-covid. 
• [19:45] How the video-first process can significantly change the recruitment industry.
• [32:10] Headhunting and technology: expediting the process.
• [38:16] Do technology platforms ‘dehumanize’ the recruitment process?
• [44:53] What is on-demand recruiting?
• [46:50] What are the trends and challenges coming up in order to get better as an industry?
• [53:00] The Sohn Conference Foundation

The “Tinderization” of Recruiting

Discussing the need for the recruitment industry to change in a post-covid world, what shift do we need to make?

Evan first talked about the recruitment continuum: post a job, collect resumes, review resumes, phone screen, interview, and hire. With the advancement of online technology, how did the recruitment process adapt? The job board got digitized. Resume collection and reviews have been automated using AI technology. Phone screen and interview is now done online via video screening and interviews. Even documentation is now done online. However, looking at the process, essentially the continuum is still the same.

He then mentioned how platforms like Tinder and Matched.com created an approach that can be applied to the recruitment industry, speeding up the process with better results. 

Here is how Evan put it: “I actually think that video first, is really gonna transform this whole industry. I’m gonna post up a job, I’m going to look at videos and there’s gonna be this transaction very much like the Tinderization of recruiting. I’m going to look at a resume, I’m going to look at a video of a candidate, if I’m interested in them, I’m gonna swipe left. They will get a notification that there’s a job, do they want to see it? If they are interested, fantastic I will move on from there. We have seen internally, video screening, shorten the entire end to end process” Hear how this method worked amazingly for Recruiter.com.

Can Too Much Technological Disruption “Dehumanize” the Recruitment Industry?

Looking at automated recruitment platforms online, we cannot rule out the possibility of eliminating the ‘human factor’ in the process. With aggregated resumes and talent pools available online on these platforms, a client can simply submit his requirements for a certain candidate and simply wait for potential candidates. 

Could this discourage them from speaking to a recruiter or recruitment specialist? Would too much technological disruption ‘dehumanize’ and negatively impact the industry? Here is what Evan thinks. “We are really an on-demand platform for recruiters. So what we are really doing now is we bring opportunities to recruiters, on-demand. The recruiters are paid, either by the hour, by project, by success, but our fastest growing area is really on-demand recruiters. We really believe our mandate - ‘recruit talent faster and better.” He then added, “I think the shift that we are gonna start to see is recruiters being treated not like a real estate broker… recruiters are not a real estate broker, they are an attorney. They should be treated as a doctor, they should be treated as a specialist… the human element of recruiting, is a professional, is a serious professional.” 

In our conversation, Evan acknowledged the critical role of the “human element” in recruitment and aims to transition to a point where recruiters are perceived as serious professionals with extensive expertise in understanding the needs of their clients and candidates. In creating a platform like recruitment.com, the objective is to give opportunities to small and independent recruiters and empower them.

The Sohn Conference Foundation

While building a career growing and advising businesses in the technology sector, Evan co-founded the Ira Sohn Conference Foundation in honor of his brother, a Wall Street professional who lost his battle with cancer at age 29. Now in 11 cities, 10 countries, and 5 continents, they have now raised more than 90 Million USD for pediatric oncology. If you also wish to make a serious impact on children, please refer to the link in the below section to know how you can help.

Evan Sohn Bio and Contact Info

Chairman and CEO of Recruiter.com. Evan is a veteran entrepreneur and visionary executive and expert in disruptive technologies in industries as far as wide as online marketplaces, payments, Wi-Fi and Instant Messaging data security, handheld development, and mobile computing.  Most recently the Vice President Sales, North America Financial Services for Poynt (acquired by GoDaddy in 2020), a silicon valley company building and deploying the world’s first open smart terminal. Through Evan’s efforts, Poynt went from $0 in revenue to over $30M in the 3 years that he was at Poynt.  Separately, Evan has been a dedicated and energetic advocate of a cure for pediatric cancer for almost 25 years. While building a career growing and advising businesses in the technology sector, Evan co-founded the Ira Sohn Conference Foundation in honor of his brother, a Wall Street professional who lost his battle with cancer at age 29. The Foundation has expanded its reach to include conferences in Australia, Canada, Hong Kong, India, London, San Francisco, San Paolo, Sydney, Tel Aviv and Toronto. To date, the Conferences have raised over $90million towards pediatric cancer and other childhood diseases.

• Evan on LinkedIn
• Evan on Twitter @esohn
• Recruiter.com platform link
• Recruiter.com Facebook Community link

People and Resources Mentioned

• The Sohn Conference website link

Connect with Mark Whitby

• Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call
• Mark on LinkedIn
• Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
• Mark on Facebook
• Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

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“The big hypocrisy of our industry is that we hire all these people for our clients yet we suck at hiring people for ourselves.” 

If you agree with this statement, then you’ll love the directness and honesty of my podcast guest Monte Merz.  Listen in as he shares his secrets to hiring recruitment rockstars - from the interview process, training, coaching and compensation. Hear why his firm has won multiple awards for being one of the best companies to work for in Denver and one of the fastest-growing companies in the United States.

Monte is the managing partner of High Country Group in Denver, Colorado. The group has 23 members of staff including 18 fee earners and is comprised of several different divisions: Energy Search, Executive Search, Tech Search and Staffing. Prior to launching the business in 2002, Monte spent 8 years working for some of the biggest recruiting firms in the world - from running a desk to becoming a Regional VP.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [4:09] Monte’s “accidental tourist” story of starting his recruitment career
• [11:00] How Monte was promoted and fired on the same day, leading him to start his own recruiting firm
• [15:35] What is the “leaky bucket theory”?
• [17:05] Why High Country had a terrible first year in business and the actions Monte took to turn things around.
• [25:03] Using a process that works - Monte’s “Funnel # Plus” model.
• [32:18] Hear Monte’s approach to job sustainability and compensation plan.
• [37:04] Monte’s firm has an exceptional “per desk average” with the majority of his recruiters billing over $300,000 per year. Hear how he recruits and keeps good people.
• [47:30] How to recognize a rockstar - hear the qualities you should look for.
• [50:47] Monte’s long-term vision for his firm.

How Monte Started 

Monte considers himself an accidental tourist when it comes to his recruitment career. A farm kid in Nebraska, he wanted to move to Colorado.  An interview for a recruitment job gave him the opportunity he was looking for.  He started running a desk and soon became a top biller in the region. What made him perform so well? The same qualities made him successful as a high-level college wrestler. His work ethic, ability to learn, leadership qualities, and having a logical approach when dealing with people. Hear his story of how he managed to get himself hired, promoted, and fired on the same day.

The “Leaky Bucket” Theory

How much do you spend on marketing for your recruitment firm? Monte believes that what makes his business successful is being really good at what they do, which is finding people. He then explained the “leaky bucket” theory:

“If you are just going out at full speed, like a, name the national, you know they’ve got 10 to 20 holes in their buckets where they are just constantly losing their clients by not delivering.  You are always gonna be losing a client but if you only have like, one or two holes in your bucket, you just do really good work, and you are doing direct source recruiting and referral-based recruiting and just doing it right, there is always gonna be a spot for that.” 

The Funnel-Pound-Plus Approach

Every recruiter and business owner has a business system that works for them. When hiring someone, his training is focused on keeping it short and would focus on his system or approach. Here is how Monte shared his funnel # + approach, summarized verbally:

• What to do (funnel)
• How much to do (#)
• How to not kill each other while you do it (plus)

During our conversation, he explains in detail how this system works and how he does the knowledge transfer to his new team members. When coaching and communicating with his recruiters, he has always been objective but solution-oriented. 

A Sustainable Compensation Plan

Monte shared a simple, yet very effective approach to compensation: 

“My comp plan is, I have a very aggressive comp plan. I figure that I want to pay people at such a high level that I’m never gonna lose somebody because somebody else offers them more.

If you are successful, you will never leave.  If you are not being successful after a year or so … I am not the “hire slow, fire fast” guy. I am a “hire slow, fire slow” person. You can’t get fired around here for not billing.  You can resign if you are not making the money you want.  You don’t get fired for not billing, you can only be fired for being an A-hole.”

And the key to success? “if you do enough interviews, enough send-outs, and enough job orders, you will be successful.”

How to Look for a Rockstar 

I am sure you would agree with Monte’s statement: “The big hypocrisy of our industry is that we hire all these people for people yet we suck in hiring people.” Monte’s average tenure is 18 years, and a big proportion of his people are in the “excellent” range. He shared some of his practices:

• Being upfront in the interview process
• Quality vs Quantity -  “I would rather have 18 to 20 rock stars than a hundred idiots”
• Hire 1 to get 1, instead of the usual practice of hiring 10 to get 2.

Listen to how he interviews potential team members.

Monte Merz Bio and Contact Info

Monte Merz is the Founder and Managing Partner of The High Country Search Group.  Originally from Nebraska, he moved to Denver in 1994 and got started in the Recruiting Industry at the tender age of 25.  Recruiting came pretty naturally and after three years of being the top Finance and Accounting biller for the national recruiting firm everyone knows, he chose to move into a management role with another national recruiting firm everyone knows.  Five years of management experience there resulted in explosive growth, unbelievable experience (good and bad), and a series of promotions that brought him responsibility for multiple offices and a Regional VP title…. as well as some internal intellectual conflict as to whether continuing down the path of the large National Recruiting firm model was really the best long term solution for him (or his teams).

In February of 2002, Monte managed to get himself promoted and subsequently fired for lack of enthusiasm for the aforementioned promotion, all in the same day… and The High Country Search Group was born.  Having sworn off management and being responsible for people for good, Monte embarked on a solo recruiting career he promised would expand no further than the breakfast nook in his kitchen.  

Fifteen years later, High Country has 23 employees, three Perm Groups, a Staffing Group, and multiple local and national awards for both “Fastest Growing” and “Best Company to Work For” and Monte has clearly failed on his promise to stay a simple little one-man shop.

How did this happen?  He kept his promise to stay simple, it just didn’t stay a one-man shop.  Simple rules, consistent execution, and almost zero turnovers lead to slow but steady growth and a local shop doing more than 10 Million Dollars in annual Revenue… and a 15-year overnight success story sort of just happened.

A farm kid from Nebraska, Monte was a 2-time All-American and 2-time Academic All-American Collegiate wrestler.  He was a Volunteer Graduate Assistant Wrestling Coach for the Iowa Hawkeyes, and in 2016 at age 46, clocked his first sub-3 hour marathon at the 2016 Boston Marathon.  Don’t be overly fooled by the country jargon, he’s about as laid back as it comes, but at the end of the day, he’s an incredibly competitive, process-driven, numbers guy.  And, if you give him a listen, you might just find some simple wisdom that resonates.

• Monte on LinkedIn
• High Country Search Group website link

People and Resources Mentioned

• Jordan Rayboy on LinkedIn

Connect with Mark Whitby

• Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call
• Mark on LinkedIn
• Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
• Mark on Facebook
• Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy

• TRR #46 How to Run a Million Dollar Recruiting Firm From Your RV, with Jordan Rayboy

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Like most recruiters, Norwood Staffing’s sales took a nosedive in March 2020.

They were coming off a record year, having achieved growth of 504% in 2019. That trend looked set to continue and the business was booming at the beginning of 2020.  Suddenly in March, the Coronavirus hit and sales came crashing back down to earth. From averaging 60 recs in Q1, they went to zero jobs in Q2.

Yet in spite of a terrible Q2 and Q3, Norwood Staffing bounced back and went on to have a record year with revenue growth of 891%.  Listen into my interview with Norwood’s founder and president, Justin Satterfield as he explains the factors that contributed to their extraordinary come back.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [2:01] How Norwood Staffing dealt with the pandemic after a strong 2019.
• [8:30] Hiring more people while your revenue is decreasing - what was Justin thinking?
• [16:05] Justin reveals how he got 891% revenue growth during the pandemic.
• [23:04] Insightful idea on managing your team in a difficult time.
• [27:33] Physical conferences vs. virtual events - which would you prefer? 
• [36:46] What was Justin’s biggest challenge in growing his business?
• [43:05] Continuous growth: Norwood Staffing’s mid and long term plans.
• [48:52] Recruiting recruiters: 4 keys to attracting and retaining the best people
• [57:55] What’s Justin reading? Here are his latest book recommendations.

How Justin Grew Revenue by 891% During the Pandemic

In our last conversation beginning of the year 2020, Justin and I talked about how he built his company close to a million dollars in the first three years before the pandemic. Justin shared, “We were really coming out of a strong 2019, I was very excited about 2020. Twenty-nineteen was our first year to have a team… we grew 504% that year. So going into 2020 I’m pumped, right? This is just going to be an incredible year.” 

Then the coronavirus pandemic hit. This is how he described the impact “Rolling into Q1, we were averaging 60+ recs on the board, we were doing absolutely fantastic, really moving along. Then March came. A lot of people were like, ‘Oh, you’re in healthcare, I’m sure staffing is great in healthcare.’ No. No, it wasn’t.”  From averaging 60 recs, they went to zero jobs in Q2. 

How did Justin adapt to the challenge? It started with his mindset. “This is where real business leaders are defined. There is always an opportunity, no matter what the market is.” He considered the market at the time as a ‘great time to hire.’ He focused on the opportunity and built his team. Having grown by 504% in 2019, they achieved another record year in 2020 growing by 891%!

Be the Positive in Someone’s Day

One of the main contributors to Norwood Staffing’s incredible growth during the recession is the relationships they were able to build pre-pandemic. As it was really difficult to start new contracts last year, Justin’s approach was simple, “it was really just sticking to the folks that we already built relationships with and vetting that out. Really not much more to it.”

Referring to the relationships he build over the years, how did Justin keep in touch without seeming too “salesy” or just asking for business? Justin shared, “Picking up a phone and having a conversation. Everybody was having a tough time… be a human. Let’s have a conversation, be the positive in someone’s day.”

 

Hiring Process to Bring in the Best Recruiters

Recruiting & staffing firm owners know how difficult it can be to hire superstar recruiters for your own team. We discussed the high attrition rate that is common in our industry and how Justin focuses on hiring rockstars and retaining them for the long term.  Justin shared his best practices:

• Maintain a really good brand
• Pay your people well
• Treating people like adults
• Vet out the candidate’s personality and philosophy

Considering the finite talent pool of experienced top-performers, how is Justin able to build his team of superstars remotely? Listen to the full interview to learn Justin’s strategy!

Justin Satterfield Bio and Contact Info

Justin Satterfield has always been a huge people-person, and the notion that the good life is built with good relationships is the foundation of his personal philosophy and lifestyle. Whether he is spending time with a close friend or meeting someone in passing, he cherishes good conversation and revels in the opportunity to make a lasting memory. Justin was also the kid loading up his lunchbox with candy from home and selling it at school in the 3rd grade (great margins, thanks Mom!).

So, it is no surprise that he now works in an industry where his love for people and business is a happy marriage. Knowing his efforts impact the bottom line and coaching the talent he works with to attain the unattainable is what motivates him to bring his maverick personality to seek mastery in this ever-evolving industry.

After gaining valuable experience with a start-up staffing agency, he joined one of the largest firms in the nation where he climbed to the top 4% in the company across all industries in less than two years. He was a key contributor in taking a relatively new HIM staffing team from the start-up phase to the highest-grossing team in the company. Creating a new business with over 150 hospitals and 5 consulting groups across 27 states, he gained the experience, knowledge and reputation he needed to pursue his own dreams — Welcome to Norwood Staffing Solutions.

Founded in 2016, Norwood has remained privately owned with no investors, partnerships or financial backing. His bootstrapped company is quickly becoming a well-known competitor in the industry supporting a number of large health systems nationally with trusted sourcing and successful placements.

• Justin on LinkedIn
• Justin (at) NorwoodStaffing.com
• Justin’s company: Norwood Staffing

People and Resources Mentioned

• Abid Hamid on Linked
• James Cann on LinkedIn
• Shoe Dog: A Memoir by the Creator of NIKE
• The Happiness Hypothesis: Finding Modern Truth in Ancient Wisdom, Jonathan Haidt
• Rocket Fuel: The One Essential Combination That Will Get You More of What You Want from Your Business, Gino Wickman and Mark C. Winters
• Trillion Dollar Coach: The Leadership Playbook of Silicon Valley's Bill Campbell

Connect with Mark Whitby

• Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call
• Mark on LinkedIn
• Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
• Mark on Facebook
• Mark on Instagram: 

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy

• TRR #5 How Justin Satterfield Hit $1M Within 2 Years of Starting A Recruitment Agency
• TRR #48 Recruitment Entrepreneur: How to Start-Up and Scale an “Exit-able” Recruitment Business, with Abid Hamid

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Your recruiting clients are increasingly aware of the commercial benefits of recruiting a diverse workforce. That means they will soon expect and require their recruitment partners to be capable of delivering a diverse shortlist.

Merely claiming to be a champion of D&I isn’t enough -- clients want to see evidence that you have a process in place to deliver diverse talent. The recruiters who are able to demonstrate this capability will differentiate themselves in the marketplace and steal a march on their competitors.

To discuss how recruiters can achieve this, I invited entrepreneur Helen McGuire to join me on The Resilient Recruiter podcast.

Helen is the CEO and Co-Founder of Diversely.io, an end-to-end hiring platform that uses tech to reduce bias in the hiring process for businesses. As an award-winning entrepreneur in the diversity space, she founded the first women’s careers platform in the Middle East – Hopscotch – in 2016, which grew to a worldwide community of over 80,000 working with businesses like Facebook, Mastercard and Nestle, and expanding to Singapore in 2018.

Helen began her career in London, achieving her dream role at BBC Radio 1 in her early twenties producing award-winning shows for the likes of John Peel, Mary Anne Hobbs and Gilles Peterson. Concurrently, Helen presented her own monthly radio programme - Join The-Dots - airing in over 15 countries globally, DJ’d and wrote for top music publications and travelled the world interviewing artists. Helen was the first female resident DJ at Club 360 in Dubai and still occasionally DJ’s to this day.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [2:00] Helen shares how they were awarded HRM Asia’s Top 3 Tech Start-Ups 2020.
• [4:15] How to check your diversity score online.
• [6:00] Approaching the diversity space from a technology perspective.
• [12:08] Unconscious bias - why should we care? 
• [14:51] Sourcing - how to attract more candidates by changing your language
• [19:24] How Helen turned a massive idea into a product.
• [25:06] Helen shares the process of getting funding for her business 
• [32:18] Helen reveals by far the biggest challenge that she had to overcome.
• [40:15] Juggling your tasks - starting a business and having a work-life balance.

Approaching the Diversity Space - from a Technology Point of View

Working in the diversity space for about six years, Helen shared what drove her passion. When she had her first baby in 2014, she very quickly realized that a lot of women (colleagues, friends) were frustrated and had to end their career - for the reason that employers could not think a little more outside the box and offer flexible working schedules to their tenured female staff members. 

This moved her to create an award-winning women's careers platform - Hopscotch. The initial aim was to find women more flexibility in their careers but ended up being helpful to women of all professions. Growing rapidly, the platform gained around 80,000 in their network! With this initiative, Helen had three realizations:

• Diversity around women - not everybody was open to thinking about things differently
• The impact of unconscious bias - not only women are affected
• Despite the reach, she felt that she is only making a very minimal impact

This lead Helen to look for a deeper and wide-ranging solution to address the above problem.

Diversity in Sourcing - Adapting your Language

Here is something really interesting. Did you know that during sourcing, changing your language can attract 70% more diverse candidates and twice as many candidates with the skillset that you’re looking for?

Here is how Helen explained it: “Think about it from a day to day perspective. If you are speaking to your grandma, if you are speaking to a child, if you are speaking to your boss, if you are speaking to your friends, you don’t use the same language right? You don’t talk to them in exactly the same way. You use language that they understand, that helps you to have a conversation with them, that helps you to have something in common with them. The same is true when you’re sourcing.”

Listen to what else she said to support this fantastic concept and how to adapt your language to your potential candidates.

Helen McGuire Bio and Contact Info

Helen McGuire is the CEO and Co-Founder of Diversely.io, an end-to-end hiring platform that uses tech to reduce bias in the hiring process for businesses. To scale the impact of her work Helen joined the renowned tech start-up accelerator programme, Antler, in January 2020 and the idea for Diversely was born. Joining forces with her Diversely co-founder and CPO, Hayley Bakker, in April of the same year, the vision for the company is to reduce workplace bias for all those from under-represented groups - not just women – by creating a scalable, global solution through the use of AI-driven tech. The company successfully completed its pre-seed round in November of 2020 and has a five-strong team working to deliver online solutions for its clients in beta, with a full launch expected in Q2 2021. Helen’s focus is on the marketing, content and sales side of the business and she regularly speaks globally on the topics of diversity, equality and inclusion.

Helen is also a mother of three young children - Clementine (6), Arlo (4) and Iris (2) and lives with her husband, Justin, and their English bulldog, Percy, in Singapore. She is a passionate speaker, writer and photographer, a proud part-time vegan and loves fashion, horses and travel.

• Helen on LinkedIn
• Diversely website link

People and Resources Mentioned

• Justine McGuire on LinkedIn
• Nikki Dallas on LinkedIn
• Hayley Bakker on LinkedIn
• Jonathan Coxon on LinkedIn
• Alex Elliot on LinkedIn
• Antler website link

Connect with Mark Whitby

• Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call
• Mark on LinkedIn
• Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
• Mark on Facebook
• Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy

• TRR #42 Childhood Friends Who Are Building a Global Recruitment Empire with Offices in 10 Countries, with Dan Matthews and Justin McGuire
• TRR # 2 Setting Up A Recruitment Business For Scale with Jonathan Coxon and Alex Elliot

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If you’ve ever faced major challenges, disappointments or setbacks in your recruitment career, you’ll really relate to and enjoy my interview with Will Bourne.

Will is the founder of Rekall Consulting, a recruiting firm based in Birmingham specializing in talent acquisition outsourcing for startup and scaleup technology companies. He is a former competitive martial artist, he has been in the recruiting industry for 10 years and recently launched his own business. He’s the author of a new book, “The Fight for Your Life.”

In this conversation, Will is totally open and honest about his struggle with mental health issues. Although it’s slowly getting better, the recruitment industry's competitive culture hasn’t always been conducive to mental health and wellbeing.  To hear more about this very important topic, listen in as Will reveals how the biggest fight of his life wasn’t in the dojo or in the ring - it was with depression and anxiety.  He hopes that by sharing his personal experience, it might help at least one person.  Maybe that person is you?

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [1:20] Will’s amazing story - from quitting school to starting a technology recruitment business.
• [12:30] Competitive martial arts and its crossover with recruiting.
• [26:14] Will opens up about mental health - from being a successful top-biller to having a mental breakdown and then rebuilding his physical and mental health.
• [30:36] Will talks about his book, “The Fight for Your Life”
• [38:00] How modifying your self-talk and being aware of the words you use habitually can help your mental health.
• [45:00] Will discusses his work with the mental health charity, Mind.org.
• [47:09] Is the recruiting industry’s culture prone to mental health issues?
• [52:10] Will’s business model and hitting his 12-month goal within 90 days

From Leaving School Early to Succeeding in Recruitment

Interesting is an understatement to discuss Will’s story on how he got to his current recruitment career path. Will left school early, feeling that the traditional education system wasn’t for him. His first job was washing cars. Motivated by his brother, he went back to college and completed his high-school education and enrolled in university. At the time that he was also competing in martial arts - he still felt that university life was not for him and left after a year.

He then landed a job at a bank, from a telesales position to being promoted to a management role. He then left a very secure position with the bank to pursue a recruitment career, starting back at the bottom as a candidate sourcer.  Was all the risk he took to walk away from everything and re-start his career worth it at that point? What were the mistakes he made and what did he learn from them? 

A Healthy Discussion on Mental Health

“I never really gave mental health a second thought… it wasn’t even on my radar. One of the biggest things I’ve learned is that nobody’s safe from it… mental health is still one of the most sensitive things that you can try and protect.”

Recalling his experience, Will shares the three separate life events that knocked him sideways and in combination contributed to his mental health crisis.  Firstly, the breakdown of a relationship.  Secondly,  a big setback financially.  Finally, the death of his stepdad, which was completely unexpected. All of it just culminated and he fell into a deep depression. He also added, “I didn’t understand it for quite a while. Everybody was saying to me, ‘just snap out of it’, ‘what’s wrong with you...’ I didn’t know what was going on and I went to speak to the doctor, I filled out a questionnaire which was like 10 questions. And after that questionnaire, it was a case of ‘anxiety depression.’” Back then, Will felt that there was not much great mental health care available. This is why he believes it is important to talk about this topic and make it a lot more accessible and have people talk about it openly. This moved Will to write a book, “The Fight for Your Life”. Hear Will talk about how he came about writing this book and see the link below on where you can get it.

Mind Charity

Will supports the mental health charity, Mind. He does consultation and supports helping organizations through seminars in creating a better mental health environment in the workplace. Will said, “I learned a lot from that. What you get back from volunteering, I can’t recommend enough to anybody listening, if you got time and if you got the mental capacity to volunteer on something, what you get out of it is insurmountable.”

If you want to know more about this organization, you may refer to the link in the below section.

Will Bourne Bio and Contact Info

Will started his journey in recruitment after an injury put a stop to his developing career in competitive martial arts. Since then Will has been a top biller, top-performing team manager, has launched as a funded startup, been the MD of one of the UK's biggest fintech recruitment companies and more recently Will has decided to do the startup journey all over again, this time with his own money, during a pandemic. Not to mention during the above process having a mental breakdown, being diagnosed and medicated for anxiety depression but ultimately bouncing back to the man you hear speaking today. Depression anxiety and medication-free, and missing some of his ribs...

• Will on LinkedIn
• Rekall Consulting website link
• Rekall Consulting on Facebook
• Rekall Consulting on Youtube
• Rekall Consulting on Instagram

People and Resources Mentioned

• The Fight For Your Life (The Fight Mentality Series Book 1)
• Mind Charity website link

Connect with Mark Whitby

• Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call
• Mark on LinkedIn
• Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
• Mark on Facebook
• Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

 

The classic contingency recruitment model is outdated and wide open for disruption.

Not only is the traditional multi-agency approach to recruitment grossly inefficient but it’s often a deeply unsatisfying experience for all parties, including the recruiter, the client and the candidates.

This is especially true for fast-growing technology companies who are scaling rapidly and running into challenges with talent acquisition.

In this episode, my special guest Doeke Geertsma explains how he identified a gap in the tech recruiting space and created an innovative solution to meet the demands of this market.

Doeke is the founder and CEO of WeAreKeen, based in Amsterdam with clients throughout Europe. WeAreKeen provides RPO services for fast-scaling technology companies. Specifically, they provide highly skilled tech recruiters who are embedded within the client’s team on a subscription basis.

Episode Outline and Highlights

[3:30] Doeke explains WeAreKeen’s business model and how it started.
[9:23] An existing market-gap that led to launching a ‘talent-embedded acquisition’ business model.
[17:11] Hear about Keen Academy and how it creates a talent pool of tech recruiters for WeAreKeen.
[23:39] Doeke shares the roadblocks and challenges when launching his business.
[32:20] WeAreKeen’ strategy for adding value to the tech recruiter community and investing for the long term.
[42:30] A walkthrough WeAreKeen’s approach on business development.
[50:30] Discussion on sales touchpoints and continuous nurturing of relationships.
[54:16] Doeke’s biggest learning - what would be done differently if given a second chance?

When the NBA shut down due to the Coronavirus on March 11, 2020, Joe Rice knew immediately that his hospitality search firm, Joseph David International, would soon be in serious trouble. He also knew that he wasn’t going down without a fight!

In this episode, listen into my conversation with Joe as he describes how they immediately pivoted to a brand new market sector and finished out the year on their best-ever quarterly performance. 

Joe’s story is highly relevant and relatable, and he doesn’t hold back. Listen in to discover his biggest lessons and takeaways that can be applied by any recruitment business owner who aspires to build (or rebuild) a 7-figure firm.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [3:05] Joe shares his first experience in the Pinnacle Society and his ‘intense’ encounter with Jordan Rayboy.
• [6:10] A critical and timely pivot - listen to how Joe dealt with the pandemic.
• [12:30] Joe shared the steps he took when re-starting his business and our discussion about building your database.
• [20:20] Shifting from solo full desk production to assuming the CEO role - Joe’s shares his transition.
• [22:40] “Barbaric, caveman-like recruiting” and going back to the fundamentals of good old-fashioned hard work.
• [29:30] Operating in faith, listen to Joe’s encouraging realizations when his company underwent trying times.
• [38:55] The mindset and mentality of a top producer.
• [44:36] What 2021 looks like for JDI.
• [48:41] Joe talks about the MogulRecruiter platform.

A Difficult but Necessary Pivot

Joe started his recruitment career around 2005 and with a core focus on the hospitality industry. With the implementation of lockdowns and mobility restrictions, hospitality is one of the most impacted industries during the pandemic. How was Joe able to deal with this sudden change?

He started “I didn’t go full time recruiting until ‘06 but it was all hospitality then… I worked for hospitality from that point, until last year. That is all I ever did.” A critical moment hit him around February 2020 when he attended a conference called ALIS (American Lodging Investment Summit) and CEO Chris Cahill of Accor Hotel connected with him. In a call, he was told by Chris,  “Joe, I can’t believe nobody’s paying attention to this thing… the coronavirus… Joe, it’s unreal to me, nobody is paying attention. The hotel industry is not paying attention. No one. And it’s coming, it is coming I promise.” This got Joe asking around and realized not many people he knew at that time was aware of what was coming. 

This realization helped to prepare Joe and his team. A point came when he dropped everything in hospitality and pivoted to healthcare. His actions were timely and it proved valuable when clients from the hotel industry started telling them that their services were no longer needed.

“Barbaric, Caveman-like Recruiting” and Going Back to the Fundamentals

Joe and I had a discussion about the definition of ‘hard work’ in a recruiter’s field. Transitioning from hiring hospitality professionals to hiring healthcare professionals, what Joe realized is the importance of hard work and going back to the fundamentals. This is how he revealed his realizations, “I get to have a very stark contrast when I did jump back into full desk eventually. This business hasn’t really changed that much. It’s eerie, that it is one of the few businesses that has not really innovated much. They tried to innovate, but they really haven't. And the way that we made this turn, was good old-fashioned hard work. There was nothing scientific or magical beyond getting the data and at that point, it was phone calls, email, and activity.”

Joe added, “It was just, barbaric, caveman-like recruiting.”

A typical day for Joe was making 70 phone calls to try to get business and sending out email campaigns.  A lot may have forgotten the fundamentals of recruitment - persistence, hustle and grind. Hear how this approach worked out for Joe.

A Change in Paradigm and Valuable Learnings

Undergoing trying times during this pandemic, hear Joe reveal his valuable learnings and realizations. Some of them are:

• The importance of persistence and hard work
• Having the awareness of how blessed you really are. 
• The importance of a team.

Trust me, you will want to hear it from Joe. His firsthand experience is definitely relatable to a lot of recruiters who have been adversely affected by the pandemic.

Joe Rice Bio and Contact Info

Joe is a Managing Partner and Founder of Joseph David International (JDI), twice recognized by Forbes as one of the best executive recruiting firms in America. He is also a partner in MogulRecruiter, a technology platform that provides recruiting, booking and talent solutions for service leaders. His recruiting career started in 2005 with Snelling Hospitality with a specialty in executive search, consulting, talent acquisition, and organizational leadership.

• Joe on LinkedIn
• Joseph David International (JDI) website link 
• JDI on Facebook
• JDI on Twitter @JDIsearch
• JDI on Instagram
• MogulRecruiter website link

People and Resources Mentioned

• Michael Talarico on LinkedIn
• Jordan Rayboy on Linkedin
• Jeremy Sisemore on LinkedIn
• Interseller - email campaign tool website link
• Pinnacle Society website link
• Good To Great: Why Some Companies Make the Leap... and Others Don't by Jim Collins

Connect with Mark Whitby

• Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call
• Mark on LinkedIn
• Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
• Mark on Facebook
• Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy

• TRR#46 How to Run a Million Dollar Recruiting Firm From Your RV, with Jordan Rayboy
• TRR#35 Inner Grit: The Traits of a Big Biller, with Jeremy Sisemore

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

The classic contingency recruitment model is outdated and wide open for disruption. 

Not only is the traditional multi-agency approach to recruitment grossly inefficient but it’s often a deeply unsatisfying experience for all parties, including the recruiter, the client and the candidates.  

This is especially true for fast-growing technology companies who are scaling rapidly and running into challenges with talent acquisition.

In this episode, my special guest Doeke Geertsma explains how he identified a gap in the tech recruiting space and created an innovative solution to meet the demands of this market.

Doeke is the founder and CEO of WeAreKeen, based in Amsterdam with clients throughout Europe. WeAreKeen provides RPO services for fast-scaling technology companies. Specifically, they provide highly skilled tech recruiters who are embedded within the client’s team on a subscription basis.  

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [3:30] Doeke explains WeAreKeen’s business model and how it started.
• [9:23] An existing market-gap that led to launching a ‘talent-embedded acquisition’ business model.
• [17:11] Hear about Keen Academy and how it creates a talent pool of tech recruiters for WeAreKeen.
• [23:39] Doeke shares the roadblocks and challenges when launching his business. 
• [32:20] WeAreKeen’ strategy for adding value to the tech recruiter community and investing for the long term.
• [42:30] A walkthrough WeAreKeen’s approach to business development.
• [50:30] Discussion on sales touchpoints and continuous nurturing of relationships. 
• [54:16] Doeke’s biggest learning - what would be done differently if given a second chance?

WeAreKeen’s Embedded Talent Acquisition Business Model

When offered an opportunity to work in Berlin, Doeke saw the increasing demand for tech recruiters. He saw a trend - tech companies picking up funding and embarking on a massive growth program only to run into major challenges.  As Doeke stated, “And you see them struggling and the result of the struggle is always the same. They started looking for people, they weren’t there. They will start hooking up agencies, of course, there were agencies, but that didn’t solve the issue because then they start working with let’s say 5 or 10 different agencies and then the amount of work will not necessarily decrease.” This observation inspired Doeke to launch his own business to solve this specific challenge he heard over and over from founders of tech companies.

From a high-level perspective, WeAreKeen’s business model can be summarized as:

• Adding extra specialized capacity to the client’s recruitment team 
• Subscription type business model: projects would run within 6-18 months
• They specialize in tech recruiters - meeting the demands of clients scaling very rapidly

Hear in detail Doeke’s strategy on adding value and meeting client’s end-to-end recruitment needs - from designing recruitment strategies, branding, and hiring plans.

Adding Value to the Tech-Recruiter Community 

Despite the pandemic, Doeke’s company was able to further add value to the tech recruitment community through webinar series, snackable contents, and masterclasses which are mostly offered for free. This continuous platform for learning and education aims to reach tech professionals and recruiters. Although there is no immediate drastic monetary value, this helps WeAreKeen to establish brand equity and massively elevates their standing and reputation in the market place. 

Doeke believes that being authentic is most important in providing this type of service. As he said, “I really am a strong believer in the networking thing and being transparent and adding value… I think what to me is really important, it might sound a bit cliche, but there is a certain type of authenticity about it I think that people feel and like.” 

He also added, “This may not give us the most growth in the short term, but in the long term I am a firm believer that this will bring us out on top basically because we like what we do and… we are in it to do an amazing job. If we see an opportunity to add value besides closing a deal then we’ll do it anyway because it will bring us more in the long run, right?”

Sheltersuit

Doeke is an avid supporter of Sheltersuit, a non-profit that designs and manufactures multifunctional products that provide immediate shelter to people experiencing homelessness. If you wish to donate and support, you may refer to the link below.

Doeke Geertsma Bio and Contact Info

Before starting as an entrepreneur Doeke had been active in the staffing industry for more than a decade with several international leadership roles. In his last position, Doeke helped set-up a new entity in Germany. It was in this role Doeke fell in love with Berlin and the technology scene. This was also the place where the business idea for WeAreKeen came to be. Providing RPO services to fast scaling technology companies and addressing the gap for well-trained tech recruiters.

• Doeke on LinkedIn
• WeAreKeen website link
• WeAreKeen on Facebook
• WeAreKeen on Instagram
• WeAreKeen on Youtube

People and Resources Mentioned

• Sheltersuit website link
• Adriaan Kolff on LinkedIn

Connect with Mark Whitby

• Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call
• Mark on LinkedIn
• Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
• Mark on Facebook
• Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

Do you want to build a recruitment business that operates without your day to day involvement and maybe even sell it someday?

If so, you’ll really enjoy my interview with Joel Slenning.  

Joel is the President of Innova People, a healthcare and IT staffing agency based in Oregon. Prior to that, Joel was the founder and CEO of Icon Medical Network, a locum tenens provider which he scaled to £16,000,000 before selling in 2019. 

Most recruitment firms are “lifestyle” businesses run by owner-operators. Few recruitment businesses ever grow beyond 5-10 people, and fewer still give the owner the potential for an exit. There is a simple reason for that - scaling up your staffing and recruiting is extremely challenging.

In this episode, Joel breaks down exactly how he was able to rapidly scale his recruitment business and gives detailed advice on how to structure the firm, bring the right people on board at the right time, and set them up for success.  

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [4:30] Starting a recruitment firm during the recession - hear Joel’s journey of “going out on his own in the worst market possible” 
• [9:35] What Joel is trying to achieve - and why
• [12:30] Joel describes the “scary” first 12 months of starting the business 
• [16:30] How hiring a virtual assistant can help you increase productivity
• [18:35] When to make your first or second hire - listen to Joel’s revenue-based “12 months” rule and other hiring principles when scaling
• [27:22] How to use metrics to make sure everyone is on the right track
• [36:10] Reality Check: So you want to scale your recruiting business? Here’s what you should expect… 
• [44:55] The importance of closely tracking your ‘first-time interviews”
• [47:10] Key roles and responsibilities you have to bring in so you can free up yourself and scale your business

Building a Recruitment Firm During the Recession

Joel is not only a successful recruiter, but he is also a successful firm founder who built a scalable business model. It started around about the time of the last big recession. Not the best time to start a firm, and as he said, “For some reason, I had this crazy notion that I needed to go out on my own in the worst market possible.”

Some of the business philosophies he mentioned are the following:

• Lay the foundation - have specific values for your company.
• Surround your recruiters with tools to make their job easier for them to focus on deal-making.
• Surround your talents with other talented people.
• Replicate this business model to different disciplines in healthcare.

Setting the Metrics for Successful Hires

When I asked Joel about the hiring metrics that he used to allow him to know that they’ve hired someone on the right track, he admitted that it was not easy at first and they also made mistakes. As Joel puts it, “Early on, we totally screwed it up, you know, 10 times over.” One question he had to solve was, how can you measure the contribution of someone who is not making placements? He realized key metrics - key components of the business that were being done. Some of the key pointers that Joel shared when setting the metrics are as follows:

• Set a number of calls/emails a day
• Set a number of people that they can connect with
• Set a number of jobs that they can pitch (hear the why and the how of this metric)

On the above, an excellent example that Joel stated was setting a minimum of 45 outbound calls a day, resulting in at least 2 to 3 connections where they are pitching, typically resulting in 1 submission. Setting the metric is just the beginning, hear the rest from Joel on the specifics on how this system is being applied and the results it produced.

Joel Slenning Bio and Contact Info

Joel is a talent acquisition expert, talent strategist, tech investor, and tech startup guru based in Portland, Oregon. With a recruitment career spanning for more than 20 years, Joel has always been a consistent top performer and an award-winning billing manager. He is the president of INNOVA People, a Human Resources Solutions agency that utilizes AI platforms to solve complex HR problems mainly focused on healthcare and information technology.

• Joel on LinkedIn
• Email address: [email protected]
• Innova People website link
• Innova People on Facebook

People and Resources Mentioned

• Jordan Rayboy on LinkedIn

Connect with Mark Whitby

• Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call
• Mark on LinkedIn
• Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
• Mark on Facebook
• Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy

• TRR#46 How to Run a Million Dollar Recruiting Firm From Your RV, with Jordan Rayboy

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

Recruiters, are you prepared for the threats and opportunities that will affect our industry as we enter the early stages of a fourth industrial revolution, characterized by the rise of robots and Artificial Intelligence?  

As the trend towards automation gathers pace, there will be seismic shifts in the global labor market.  Many jobs will disappear completely while entirely new types of jobs will be created.  

How will these changes affect you as a recruiter or recruitment business owner?  

To help answer this question, I asked Jeff Wald, best-selling author of The End of Jobs: The Rise of On-Demand Workers and Agile Corporations, to share his insights with listeners of my podcast.

Jeff is an angel investor and startup advisor, having built and sold multiple technology companies.  He was the founder of WorkMarket, an enterprise software platform that enables companies to manage their freelancers which he sold to ADP in 2018. He is also the founder of Spinback which he sold to salesforce.com. Jeff frequently speaks at conferences and in media on the future of work.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [1:48] How Jeff got into the field of the work market and on-demand labour.
• [4:11] Jeff shares the first business failure that bankrupted him. Listen to his learnings from this experience.
• [11:25] Hear an insightful discussion on the future of work and the fourth industrial revolution.
• [18:24] Post-pandemic near and long term effects.
• [25:56] Jeff elaborates more on the fourth industrial revolution - will tech eventually replace the majority of workforce functions? Hear the numbers.
• [38:00] Economic and social dislocation and its impact on the fourth industrial revolution.
• [40:15] The future of On-Demand Labour.
• [45:00] Jeff reveals why he wrote his bestselling book, the End of Jobs: The Rise of On-Demand Workers and Agile Corporations.
• [53:00] How Jeff’s Tony-Award winning production fits into his career.

A Firm Believer of the Growth Mindset

In our conversation, Jeff shared one of the most significant backstories in his career: a business failure that bankrupted him to his last dollar. As you listen to the details, you will also feel Jeff’s frustration. Despite having beautiful concepts and business plans, the fallout was caused by stakeholders not getting along. It was really difficult to see the learnings while you are in the midst of the storm. As he said, “I’m a huge believer in the growth mindset… this is a learning experience, it’s tough to see when you’re in it… Everybody was saying, ‘oh you’re gonna look back at this and think it’s so great’ and I was like, ‘Ah, shut up! I don’t want to hear that.’ Because you don’t want to hear it at the time but it is certainly true.”

A lot of recruiters and recruitment business owners might have experienced the same since last year because of the challenges brought about by the pandemic. If Jeff could give any advice to struggling recruiters, what would it be? Below are the highlights:

• Failure is critical to learning. Jeff said, “If you’re gonna do three startups and one of them has to fail and bankrupt you, have it be the first.”
• Be data-driven but remember that not everything is not within your control.
• The biggest variable that will determine your success is you. Your ability to push through and be resilient is the most important variable.
• There are times that the most intelligent thing to do is to fold it up.

The Future of the Work Market

Given the current situation and that we are in the early stages of what many are calling ‘fourth industrial revolution (robots and AI)’, what predictions can Jeff make about the future of work? He gave really interesting and insightful inputs. “I will say this, history tends to rhyme…” is how he started his response. A valid point he raised: it is best to look at how we reacted to the first three industrial revolutions to see how society might react to the fourth revolution. 

For the past three industrial revolutions (mechanization, electrification, computerization) this is what was seen:

• In the beginning, people started to “freak out” and were fearful of losing jobs
• In the middle, job losses, economic and social disruptions occur, but at the same time, lower cost of production and greater output happens as well as an increase in the number of jobs.
• In the end, there are more jobs, higher standards of living, and people that work fewer hours.

Jeff concludes, “And so as we look at the fourth… I am confident that there will be many differences in this industrial revolution. It will happen quicker, it will be more global, productivity increases might actually be greater, I am very confident that we will see higher standards of living, more jobs, and people working fewer hours.” 

Jeff Wald Bio and Contact Info

Jeff is a serial entrepreneur,  Board Member, Best Selling Author, Keynote speaker and investor.  Jeff’s most recent company, Work Market, an enterprise software platform that enables companies to manage freelancers was acquired by ADP in 2018. Jeff has founded several other technology companies, including Spinback, a social sharing platform (eventually purchased by salesforce.com). He began his career in finance, serving as Managing Director at activist hedge fund Barington Capital Group, a Vice President at venture capital firm GlenRock and various roles in the M&A Group at JP Morgan. 

Jeff has served on numerous public and private Boards of Directors including Steel Connect (NASDAQ: STCN), Costar Technologies (OTC: CSTI) and venture-backed TransfrVR.   Jeff serves as an adviser to several companies and entities including the X-Prize’s Rapid Reskilling Initiative.

Jeff is the author of the #1 Amazon Best Seller, The End of Jobs: The Rise of On-Demand Workers and Agile Corporations and The Birthday Rules: A Fun and Flexible Framework for Raising Children in a Technology Enabled World. 

Jeff frequently speaks at conferences and in media on startups and the future of work. He was named several times as one of the 100 Most Influential People in Staffing by the Staffing Industry Analysts.  He is a producer of the Tony Award-winning Best Musical, A Gentleman’s Guide to Love and Murder and the full-length feature film, Inez & Doug & Kira, which won Best Picture at several film festivals.

Jeff formerly served as an officer in the Auxiliary Unit of the New York Police Department.  Jeff holds an MBA from Harvard University and an MS and BS from Cornell University

• Jeff on LinkedIn
• Jeff’s website link
• Jeff on Twitter @jeffreywald
• WorkMarket website link

People and Resources Mentioned

• The End of Jobs, by Jeff Wald
• Abid Hamid on LinkedIn
• James Caan on LinkedIn

Connect with Mark Whitby

• Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call
• Mark on LinkedIn
• Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
• Mark on Facebook
• Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy

• TRR#48 Recruitment Entrepreneur: How to Start-Up and Scale an “Exit-able” Recruitment Business, with Abid Hamid

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter