The Resilient Recruiter

If you’re tired of being treated as a “vendor” and want to forge true partnerships with your clients, this is an episode you won’t want to miss.

Many recruiters would like to shift from a transactional business model to a more consultative, value added one.  The challenge is that both the recruiter and the client are constrained by old patterns -- outdated ways of thinking and doing things.  They recognize their recruitment process is incredibly inefficient but they don’t know how else to do it.  

Listen in to my fascinating interview with Steven Street about how he’s disrupting the ways recruitment services are traditionally sold and delivered and creating joint-ventures with client companies to solve their talent acquisition challenges.

Since 2015, Steven has been the CEO of Cubed Talent Management - incorporating Cubed Recruitment, Indigo Healthcare Recruitment, and Cubed Academy.  Cubed Talent Management brings a new approach to strategic talent management for the engineering, FMCG, electronics, manufacturing and supply chain sectors. Steven started his recruiting career over 25 years ago.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [3:00] Steven shared his humble beginnings
• [10:18] What is Steven’s “person-to-person” principle?
• [20:30] How to establish a true partnership with your clients
• [29:05] An interesting discussion about repositioning in the recruitment sector
• [32:10] How to make ‘in-house’ an opportunity instead of a threat
• [42:30] Learn more about the joint-venture and gain-share business models
• [55:21] “Be an individual” - how this advice relevant to help your recruitment business

Person-to-Person Principle

How much value do you put in professionally building real relationships with stakeholders? Steven believes that collaboration, strategic alliances, and joint ventures with clients can be an effective strategy. Explaining his guiding principles when doing business, he explained: “I’ve got high standards as an individual, and one of my many guiding principles, what I recognized very early on, was not to be a function to function, a recruiter to the hirer, supplier to customer, nor be brand to brand. I link up to whoever it might be, the client, company, but for it to be person to person. Steven to Mark. Steven to whoever it might be.”

As he further expounded, when you strip away the person’s function and the person’s position, the core of that is a person were in all likelihood, “you have shared values, world views, commonality, family, what you think, what you believe, all of that.”

Steven’s authentic relationship with clients resulted in having partners for 20 to 25 years and some of them starting as customers to ending as business partners.

Radically Repositioning the Recruitment Sector

Steven sees the current sector as being somewhat ‘undignified’ in a sense and generally having a need to mature. When recruiters are cannibalizing over each other as they go out for opportunities and leaving clients somewhere in that melee, it can be perceived as something really unprofessional and self-centered. Instead of disrupting the way recruiters work using technology or other fundamentals, Steven pointed out that very valid inputs and some of them are below:

• Treat your client with respect and dignity - get in their shoes and feel what it is like in the receiving end of the experience.
• Be collaborative and open-minded.
• In line with the above, Steve shared a very good example on how to explain to clients more advantageous options versus just going ‘in-house.’
• Partnering with clients and the game-share model.
• Rethinking our relationship with clients.

To summarize, Steven stated “That’s what I mean about disrupting how we do things. It’s really nothing about the technology. It’s really nothing about the fundamentals in recruitment. It’s really about rethinking our relationship with our clients.”

Martin House Children's Hospice 

Hear about this amazing charity work and how this inspires Steven to have a sense of community and keeping himself grounded. You may refer to the link below to know more about this organization and how you can help out. 

Steven Street Bio and Contact Info

Got into recruitment on the ground floor - fortuitously, with Larry Gould's business Link Up in June 1993 - followed by a successful stint with Pertemps (which would have been my forever career - had I not launched Relay Recruitment in 1996; subsequently sold in 2011. Now working with an amazing handpicked team at Cubed Talent Management.

As stated on my LI profile: a human Swiss Army knife, problem solver, acquirer and nurturer of World Class talent, therapist, wine drinker, believer in a brighter future and, most importantly- lover of dogs. 🐶 Yorkshire born and bred - dragged up in Bradford.

A vociferous enemy of mediocrity, shabby service, average aspiration, poor standards and negativity.

My own personal mission is to launch a community enterprise supporting young people with Autism, Aspergers and other additional needs into dignified internships, work placements, work experience and ultimately, quality career pathways. 

• Steven on LinkedIn
• Cubed Talent Management website link
• Cubed Resourcing website link
• Cubed Resourcing on Facebook

People and Resources Mentioned

• Martin House - “Hospice care for children and young people” website link
• Darren Ledger on LinkedIn
• Plamen Ivanoff on LinkedIn
• Natasha Makhijani on LinkedIn

• Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call
• Mark on LinkedIn
• Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
• Mark on Facebook
• Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

• TRR #30 How to Open Doors and Build Relationships at C-Level, with Natasha Makhijani
• TRR#43 How to Transition From Contingency CV Supplier to Consultative Retained Recruiter, with Plamen Ivanoff 

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Can you imagine building a salesforce of 100+ staff in 5 months with a team of only 3 recruiters? In the 50th episode of the Resilient Recruiter, my very special guest Jennifer Poloni shares how having a unique approach and consistent planning process lead to the accomplishment of this gargantuan feat. 

Jennifer is the owner of the Cascadia Search Group. She started her career as a sales rep and then sales manager in pharma. After having kids she decided to join her husband in his recruiting agency which was originally part of Management Recruiters where she was a Pacesetter for 18 out of 20 years. 

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [1:25] Jennifer shares her background - shifting from a successful pharmaceutical career into recruiting.
• [3:40] Building a salesforce of 109 staff in five months - hear takeaways on how Jennifer’s team of three people pulled that off. Discussion key pointers: 
• • [8:00] Approach to candidate relations
  • [14:15] Keeping the team motivated
  • [15:33] Hiring and interviewing processes
  • [17:09] Challenges that the team had to overcome
• [26:25] Dealing with HR and best practices on how to engage with all key decision-makers.
• [28:30] When to walk away from the business.
• [29:22] Differentiation - Jennifer explains an AI tool that is a great differentiator in the industry.
• [32:20] Planning process tips as shared by an MRI Pacesetter (18 out of 20 years.)
• [39:30] Cold calling best practices.
• [43:10] Jennifer shares her challenges and proactive approach to deal with the current pandemic and the 2007/8 recession.

Delivering on a Tall Order: Making 109 Placements in 5 Months with a Team of 3 Recruiters

How do you build a sales team of 109 people in five months with a team of only three recruiters? Jennifer explains in detail how they were able to pull it off. After sharing her story, there are the key takeaways that I heard:

• Nurturing the right connections and being there for the candidate - becoming a “good sounding board.”
• Team collaboration and dedication - delegating and dividing tasks and working closely to ensure tasks are completed.
• Planning and tracking - ensuring necessary tasks and logistics are taken care of efficiently.
• Keeping your team committed and motivated.

Successfully completing the tasks, they got a repeat order. Applying a similar process, Jennifer’s team was able to complete a hiring project of 20 representatives in just six weeks!

Plan, Plan, Plan and “Make Five More!”

Jennifer’s approach has been focused on relationship building, goal setting, and daily planning. This resulted in a very fulfilling and successful career. During her tenure at MRI, Jennifer was a Pacesetter for 18 out of 20 years and two of her team members were awarded “Rookie of the Year” in 2017 and 2018 under her leadership.  

Jennifer’s planning process plays a huge part in this success. She explains: “I personally believe that this job is not a 9 to 5 job especially when you’re a brand new recruiter. I feel like you have to plan, plan, plan, and then you have to make calls, calls, calls. Now, I realize newer people are out there and they feel like emails and text messages work. But I still feel that … the foundation is making those phone calls.  At the end of the day when you feel like, ‘Oh my gosh, I’m done,” MAKE FIVE MORE.” Why the emphasis on making more calls? She added, “I just think it works. And always, that last call of the day is always the best call.” 

Jennifer Poloni Bio and Contact Info

Jennifer started her career as a Pharma Sales Representative and moved up the ranks to a Sales Manager and has been an executive recruiter for 21 years. Since 1999, she has worked as a recruiter in marketing and market research for pharmaceutical and biotech companies. Jennifer also won several awards for top recruiter performance while being part of MRINetwork, and continue to remain a leader across the executive recruiting industry. She is the owner of Cascadia Search Group based in Washington and also a member of the Pinnacle Society, the premier consortium of Industry-Leading recruiters in North America. 

• Jennifer on LinkedIn
• Cascadia Search Group on LinkedIn
• Cascadia Search Group website link
• Cascadia Search Group on Facebook

People and Resources Mentioned

• Tyler Frisbie on LinkedIn
• Pinnacle Society website link
• Loxo AI website link

• Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call
• Mark on LinkedIn
• Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
• Mark on Facebook
• Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

• TRR #39 7 Years to 7 Figures: From Rookie Recruiter to Million Dollar Biller, with Tyler Frisbie 

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As we begin a new year, are we justified in feeling hopeful and cautiously optimistic about the market?  Where do we go from here as a recruitment industry?  What are the trends, challenges, threats and opportunities?  

To answer these questions, I invited Neil Carberry to share his perspective as the CEO of the Recruitment and Employment Confederation (REC). Neil’s role gives him a unique vantage point to provide insights on the recruitment industry especially on what the future looks like for recruiters. 

The REC (Recruitment and Employment Confederation) is the leading membership organization for recruitment/staffing firms and individual recruiters in the United Kingdom.  With a massive membership of around 3,300 companies and 10,000 individuals, the REC publishes industry analysis on a regular basis, including their Annual Recruitment Industry Trends Survey. This means that Neil’s insights are grounded in empirical research combined with anecdotal evidence based on hundreds of conversations with recruitment business owners.   

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [3:35] Neil shares his insights on where we are now as an industry and what the future looks like for recruiters in 2021.
• [10:28] A big challenge for our industry is making a VALUE based, rather than a price based, argument for what we do 
• [11:10] Recruitment industry trends; how recruiters can deliver more value as the labour market recovers.
• [14:45] Delivering more value - Neil shared a really good story on how one of their members added real value to an employer and its employees.
• [20:30] Current practices and innovations that are being driven in our industry.
• [25:30] Improving client relations: What advice would Neil give to REC members on helping our clients?
• [31:05] How we can recruiters rethink service offerings and stay relevant.
• [42:01] What’s the biggest challenge Neil faced recently in his career?
• [46:50] Both Mark and Neil love running - here’s why...
• [48:00] Battling with impostor syndrome and self-doubt.

“A Genuine Professional Service”

Discussing the real value that the industry brings to the economy, Neil highlights why recruitment is highly different from other sectors and industries and why we should be proud of what we do. He also mentioned a few aspects that also enables a recruitment business to provide a genuine professional service versus just being a transactional and price-driven type of business.  

• Helping the client to get it right (the wrong hire can cost a client/business hundreds of thousands of pounds)
• Recruitment plays a vital role in employees’ long term goals 
• Providing advice and having deep client relationships 
• Leading the way on diversity and inclusion.

As this is easier said than done, hear real-life examples shared by Neil on how this can happen and how it changes people’s lives. To conclude this part of our conversation, Neil said that “I think we should be really proud of what we do as an industry. I think it is easy to hide away or incorrectly compare recruitment to other sectors. We change lives.” 

Thoughts on Resilience, Challenges, and Kindness

When Neil and I discussed resilience, I had to ask Neil to talk about one of the biggest challenges he had to face in his career. Neil revealed, “You know when we talk about working at home? My experience in spring was not that. It was living at work. I know many, particularly recruitment business owners and operators who have felt the same. I think I had about 4 days off since March 12th.”

Neil added, “But I think the thing that I learned... is we all have a fuel tank and we need to remember that sometimes it’s pretty close to empty. So I think making sure taking time for self-care, even when it feels like there are 101 urgent things… Getting a sense of what’s important… Making sure that we’re carving out thinking time, actively throwing stuff off the back of the lorry that doesn’t need to be on the lorry … I think increasingly focusing on human relations as well because we are not seeing people everyday… We are, after all, human beings and kindness is the first thing we should start with. Kindness to ourselves, and kindness to each other.” Very valuable insights indeed!

NB - a “lorry” is a truck, for those listening outside the UK :)

Neil Carberry Bio and Contact Info

Neil Carberry was appointed as Chief Executive of the Recruitment and Employment Confederation in June 2018 has been managing director at the Confederation of British Industry.  In 1999, Neil began his career in recruitment working for executive search firm Fraser Watson before doing a post-graduate degree in Human Resources at the London School of Economics and joining the CBI in 2004. He is a member of the council of the conciliation service ACAS and of the Low Pay Commission where he helps guide pay policy in the UK. He is also the chair of a small primary academy trust in Oxfordshire.

• Neil on LinkedIn
• Recruitment & Employment Confederation website
• Neil on Twitter @RECNeil

• Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call
• Mark on LinkedIn
• Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
• Mark on Facebook
• Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

• TRR #3 The 4 Qualities of The World’s Top Recruitment Leaders, with Doug Bugie

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If you had the chance to speak with a highly experienced and successful investor about scaling your recruitment businesses, what questions would you ask? 

In this episode of The Resilient Recruiter, I had the opportunity to interview Abid Hamid, the Group CEO of Recruitment Entrepreneur - one of the most successful investors in start-ups and scaling recruitment businesses. Since 2014, they’ve invested in over 30 talented founders, enabling those founders to launch and scale successful business ventures. The group has annual revenues of £45m and is growing at 140% per annum.

From his vantage point, Abid has tremendous insight into why a small minority of recruitment businesses are able to scale successfully and outperform the market.  I asked him, “What are you looking for in a founder that then determines whether or not you will invest in them?” Hear his response to this question and all the other insightful answers to topics covering scaling your recruitment business, embracing the new normal and reality, people management, and adapting to technology. 

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [4:49] How has the pandemic affected Recruitment Entrepreneur's portfolio companies?
• [8:00] The new reality: hours contract versus an output contract - would you consider this setup?
• [11:40] Three examples of businesses that displayed outstanding resilience during the pandemic and what we can learn from them.
• [18:35] As an investor, what are the qualities Recruitment Entrepreneur is looking for in a founder that determines whether or not he will invest in them?
• [23:15] Deal breakers - what factors would lead Recruitment Entrepreneur to decide not to invest in a start-up or scaling recruitment business?
• [26:17] An investor’s insight: What challenges and opportunities await recruiters in 2021 and beyond?
• [33:50] Abid’s philosophy on people management and business success
• [44:00] How to onboard, train and manage remote recruiters - Abid’s advice on mastering recruitment one building block at a time.

Embracing the New Reality

Having multiple business portfolios, Abid has a great vantage point on how companies should embrace the new reality after the pandemic. One of the changes he is advocating for is looking at an output contract rather than the hour’s contract. He explained, “I think leadership should change its concept that nine to five is what people do. The hours contract, 40-hour contract, 30-hour contract, I think it’s a thing of the past. What you should have is an output contract.” Although this may appear counter with the way businesses have been running in the last 20 years, he laid out valid points on why this makes sense. Would you consider an output-driven contract versus an hour’s contract setup?

“Who makes the cut?”

In the last four years, Recruitment Entrepreneur has invested in 30 founders running 22 different businesses.  However, that’s a small percentage of the enquiries they receive.  In the last 12 months alone, they received 700 business plans from aspiring entrepreneurs and did deals with less than 1% of them.

I asked: “What are you looking for in a founder that then determines whether or not you will invest in them?”

Abid told me “Number one, it’s the individual. Why are you sitting here? What have you got in your head that you want to create?” Abid used the analogy of building your dream house and how it translates into a founder’s vision for building a business. Abid then described their process for screening a potential business partner. 

People Management - a very Delicate Balance

As obvious as it sounds, people management is a critical part of business success. Abid actually described it as “a very delicate balance of allowing your people to flourish within certain parameters.” He also elaborated on leadership and how to mentor and guide people. Some great examples that he gave are:

1. An experienced leader is someone who made a lot of mistakes. The balance is managing your people so that they can avoid the mistakes that you can probably see but they can’t. 
2. Being clear with your new-joiner on their plan from day one.
3. Allowing your people to have a clear vision of your business. Involve your people in the objectives that you as a leader are trying to achieve. Vision leads to strategy, strategy leads to actions.

Abid Hamid Bio and Contact Info

Abid is trained as a lawyer, worked in corporate banking, and has been in the recruitment sector for the last 20 years mainly in management and leadership roles. He had worked globally within the recruitment sector and a highly experienced business leader with a wealth of experience in various industry sectors and difficult geographies around the world. Abid had held various board positions from start-up to FTSE 250 Listed company and is currently Chairman and NED for 19 companies.

• Abid on LinkedIn
• Recruitment Entrepreneur website link
• Recruitment Entrepreneur on LinkedIn
• Recruitment Entrepreneur on Facebook
• Recruitment Entrepreneur on Instagram
• Recruitment Entrepreneur on Twitter @RecEntrepreneur

People and Resources Mentioned

• Doug Bugie on LinkedIn
• Armed Forces Covenant website link

• Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call
• Mark on LinkedIn
• Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
• Mark on Facebook
• Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

• TRR #3 The 4 Qualities of The World’s Top Recruitment Leaders, with Doug Bugie

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If you have ambitions to scale your recruiting and staffing business, then developing your company culture needs to be one of your top priorities.

On The Resilient Recruiter podcast, I’ve interviewed many founders of fast-growing recruitment companies and they all agree on the importance of creating the right culture.  But what does that really mean and how do we achieve it?

“Nine out of ten companies do not have a strong functional culture.” 

My special guest, Bretton Putter of CultureGene explains what makes a company culture strong and functional and why it should matter to you as a recruitment business owner. Brett also explains how to address a degrading company culture environment, especially in this challenging time of the pandemic where most employees are forced to work remotely.

Brett is an expert on company culture development. He is the founder and CEO of CultureGene, a Culture Leadership Platform helping high-growth companies build strong, functional cultures. 

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [1:25] What is company culture and why it is important for growth companies?
• [3:35] Codifying the culture development process - what it means.
• [8:28] Why invest time to be intentional on your culture versus just having one by default?
• [13:30] “There is no right or wrong culture, it is either strong and functional or weak and dysfunctional” What makes a culture functional?
• [21:55] Hear the initial steps you should take when starting the culture development journey.
• [32:55] Why it is impossible to hire based on “culture fit” and why you should hire for values instead.
• [35:49] How to address degrading company culture in a remote environment.
• [42:20] Brett talks about one of the most challenging experiences he has to overcome.
• [48:30] Brett tells the story of having lunch with Nelson Mandela.

“The way we do things right here”

Our conversation started off with how Brett would define “company culture.” He gave a straightforward response, “My definition, or the definition I like of company culture, is the way we do things around here. Which is like an all-encompassing thing, but that is deliberate. Because company culture really is the DNA of your organization and it drives everything.” 

Brett also raised very two important points when talking about its importance. 

1. Where we are and how our company is adapting around this time of the pandemic is really driven by our culture.
2. The most important thing we have to think about is that your company culture is degrading over time in most cases.

Listen to the whole conversation as Brett and I drill down further on these key points.

Invest Time to Design Your Culture

If you are a small startup, you might have hesitations about investing time to design and codify your culture. Why does it make sense to not just settle for a default culture and way of working and be proactive in designing your company culture? After doing deep-dive interviews with 50+ leaders who took it upon themselves to build a functional culture, Brett mentioned a number of solid benefits. Some of the payoffs that were mentioned are:

• Quoting David Cummings, “Company culture is the one sustainable competitive advantage that you have complete control over.”
• The glue to your team is your company culture - without it, you will not get the right behaviors.
• It helps you attract better talent.
• Among other things, having a functional culture can help your company out-position others that do not.

The CEO Must Get It

Taking the culture-building journey starts with the most important step: the CEO must get it. Culture starts from the top and trickles down below. Brett discussed the critical parts of creating a functional and strong culture:

• Define your values. This involves understanding two things:
• • What the actual current culture is?
  • What is the aspirational culture?
• Define the expected behaviours against your values. This involves being really clear with how the members should interpret these values.

Listen to how Brett illustrates the above critical points as well as their practical application.

Bretton Putter Bio and Contact Info

Prior to founding CultureGene Brett ran an international executive search firm working with high-growth tech companies to expand their senior executive teams in Europe and the US. His first book Culture Decks Decoded was published in 2018 and his second book, Own Your Culture: How to Define, Embed and Manage your Company Culture was published in September 2020. He writes a popular blog on culture-driven companies and is a sought-after speaker.  

• Brett on LinkedIn
• Brett on Twitter @BrettonPutter
• CultureGene website link: https://www.culturegene.ai/
• CultureGene on Facebook

People and Resources Mentioned

• Own Your Culture, by Bretton Putter
• Culture Decks Decoded, by Bretton Putter
• Delivering Happiness, by Tony Hsieh
• Edgar Schein on LinkedIn
• David Cummings company culture blog page

• Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call: www.recruitmentcoach.com/strategy-session/
• Mark on LinkedIn
• Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
• Mark on Facebook
• Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

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Imagine having total freedom to run your recruitment business from anywhere. Instead of postponing your dreams of travel and adventure until retirement, what if you could create the ultimate lifestyle business and live life on your terms?

That’s what Jordan Rayboy set out to do in 2006 when he launched his search firm, Rayboy Insider Search. When he went out on his own, Jordan had a non-compete agreement with a 200-mile radius. He got around it by getting an RV and running his business from the road.

Since then he’s billed millions in placement fees by leveraging technology and managing a virtual team way before Covid-19 forced the world to embrace remote working.

In this episode, Jordan shares his inspiring and practical advice on planning, productivity, and the importance of having a peer group. Plus how he manages a remote team working across different time zones.

Jordan’s a popular speaker at recruiting conferences and has been interviewed many times. What’s unique and special about this interview is that Jordan speaks publicly for the first time since the pandemic started about his own struggles with mental health in 2020.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [2:43] Jordan speaks up about mental health and shares his recent struggles
• [19:14] What inspired Jordan to get an RV and take his business on the road?
• [27:26] The power of the peer group 
• [35:20] How Jordan leverages virtual teams to maximize production
• [41:20] Jordan’s insights from having managing remote teams since 2007
• [45:45] Power Planning - hear how a million-dollar biller plans their day

Mental Health During the Pandemic

Recruiting can be stressful at the best of times.  During the pandemic, most people’s stress levels have gone through the roof. It’s no wonder there’s been a rise in anxiety and depression around the world.  In this interview, Jordan shares his own struggles with mental health coinciding with the onset of the pandemic.

Jordan’s courage in speaking openly about his dark times is remarkable.  “I’ve been struggling lately. It's not that I've been struggling in billing… I have just been struggling on the mental health part. Probably just reading way too much bad news, believing all the fear that I’ve been feeding into my mind” said Jordan.

He said he was willing to proceed with the podcast in case by sharing his story it could help others who are going through tough times to know they’re not alone.  Fortunately, things are slowly starting to get better.

Jordan shared, “I kinda feel like I'm turning a corner. Just in the past couple of days, I talked to my good buddy Monte Merz … I was talking about some of these things and he asked if I want to be part of their touchdown club. It’s like you got a point every day for working out... and you get a point every day if you don’t drink or smoke. And so the goal is to get seven points a week… I just started yesterday after I talked to him. I got out on my bike, didn’t drink anything yesterday, woke up at 5am this morning, got on my trainer bike inside… and I’m doing it, I got 3 points on the board. Just like that, I already feel more empowered because I am making better choices.”

If there are takeaways from our conversation on the subject of mental health, here they are:

• Self-awareness and having the courage to admit if you are not OK.
• Talk it out with a family member, friend, or someone you trust.
• News cleanse - stay away from dwelling too much on negative news.
• Read or listen to inspirational materials (Jordan shared a life-changing book we both read).
• Do not be afraid or embarrassed to speak to your doctor and seek professional help.

The Power of the Peer Group

According to Jordan, you need to surround yourself with the right peer group -- people who will have a positive influence on you and push you to get outside your comfort zone.  He said, “It is kind of easy when you are all by yourself to lower your standards and allow yourself to say, ‘hey I am comfortable I have everything I need’… It is really easy to settle into that comfort zone.”

Jordan concluded, “The power of the peer group - if you are struggling, surround yourself with other badasses who are living a higher quality of life. If you want to get stronger, work out in the gym with someone stronger than you. When I was getting faster and fitter on my bike because I was getting on group rides with people who are faster and fitter than me. You run with a higher level peer group, it is going to force you to grow.” Very well-said indeed.

Planning and Success

Jordan is an advocate for what he terms “Power Planning.” Part of his success in getting his business mobile while managing a virtual team in different time zones is attributed to how he plans and his focus in executing such plans. 

“Force yourself to execute on your plans, and see the results.  That success will reinforce the habit.”

Jordan Rayboy Bio and Contact Info

Jordan Rayboy believes life is short, so play hard! He began recruiting in 2000 after his sophomore year of college. Six years later, he struck out on his own, forming Rayboy Insider Search. Being an impatient type-A recruiter, Jordan long ago abandoned the deferred life plan (slave, save, retire). By building an effective virtual team & leveraging technology, Jordan has run his search firm since 2006 while traveling in a tour-bus RV with his wife Jeska. They’ve raised three dogs along the way, which prepared them (kinda) for traveling with their two young children – Ryder and Hunter. They’ve covered the majority of the US and Canada during their adventure while living their dream every day (as long as the RV works).  

Jordan is a 3-time Regional AE of the Year and 3 time national top-10 AE at MRI.

• Jordan on LinkedIn
• Jordan on Twitter @jordanrayboy
• Rayboy Insider Search  website link: https://rayboyis.com/
• Rayboy IS on Facebook
• Rayboy IS on Instagram
• Rayboy IS on Youtube
• A cause Jordan supports: Operation Underground Railroad - saves children from human trafficking. https://ourrescue.org/

People and Resources Mentioned

• Jeremy Sisemore on LinkedIn
• Joe Rice on LinkedIn
• Monte Merz on LinkedIn
• Atomic Habits by James Clear
• Untethered Soul by Michael Singer
• The 4-Hour Workweek by Tim Ferris
• The Pinnacle Society website link: https://pinnaclesociety.org/

• Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call: www.recruitmentcoach.com/strategy-session/
• Mark on LinkedIn
• Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
• Mark on Facebook
• Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

• TRR #35 Inner Grit: The Traits of a Big Biller, with Jeremy Sisemore

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The only constant in this world is change. This certainly applies to the recruitment business - in order to succeed, you must continually evolve. How have you adapted your recruiting practice to recent changes in the market? 

In this episode, you’ll hear how Cameron Boyd and his firm are adapting to this challenging new environment by doing things differently.  They have introduced a flat fee structure to bring greater objectivity to the executive search process.  They’re also challenging the status quo with regard to recruiter compensation by getting rid of their commission scheme.  Listen in as Cameron explains why he believes the new model aligns the interests of the individual, the firm and the clients they serve.

Cameron is a partner at Smith and Wilkinson and is a 15-year veteran of the executive search industry. Cameron serves financial services companies in the eastern United States and has completed over 250 key leadership searches. As his firm’s second-largest shareholder, Cameron has been instrumental in growing the revenue by over 600% over the last ten years.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [3:30] Shifting from contingency transactional model to a real client partnership on a retained basis - hear how Cameron achieved this transformation.
• [9:45] The theme of objectivity and fee structure - how to sell your candidates in a way that is beneficial to your client.
• [16:52] From contingency to retained shift - Cameron reveals details on the transition. 
• [19:34] Money-back guarantee? Hear how this approach can work to protect your brand.
• [24:37] Listen to Cameron’s biggest challenge in his recruitment career and how he treats this as an opportunity.
• [30:37] Doing things differently in this challenging new environment - how to win new businesses.
• [35:11] Taking away the commission? A very interesting but unusual approach to compensation.
• [45:25] What advice would you give to someone shifting from contingency to retained? Hear Cameron’s thoughts.
• [53:00] Discussion about exercising, running, and managing mental health.

Objectivity and a Flat Fee Structure

In order to serve your clients’ best interests, Cameron firmly believes that objectivity plays a significant part. This is how he explains his concept of objectivity:

“By nature, when one candidate has a fee or different fee or no fee attached to his head than this candidate, then all objectivity goes out the window regardless of how hard we all try. Regardless of how hard the headhunter or client tries to keep in mind who is the best candidate, if one’s gonna cost you 50 grand higher or one’s gonna cost you 25 or zero to higher, you are going to take that into your calculation. So out of the window goes the idea that we are all in the same team trying to figure out who is the best fit for this role.”

In line with his concept of objectivity, Cameron believes that a flat fee structure works best: “A fee structure that allows for the headhunter to be paid regardless of who is hired, his interest is on the same side as the client.” 

Turning a Challenge into an Opportunity

The Coronavirus pandemic has brought about unprecedented challenges for most recruitment business owners, including Cameron who said, “this is my second recession.” But rather than thinking of the recession as a challenge, Cameron chooses to regard it as an opportunity.  He explains, “recessions give you time to think more strategically, contemplate where you want to grow or practice, what talent you should further cultivate.”  

However, Cameron acknowledges that he’s in a very fortunate position in that he’s been financially prudent during the good years.  His advice to young recruiters: “Save your money. I think it allows you to make a more objective view of the search. If you are not living or dying by the next commission check, you are gonna be more objective with your clients.”

Staying Sharp and Avoiding Complacency

The more successful you become, the more challenging it becomes to avoid becoming complacent.  He offers three specific tips that have helped him to stay sharp and may work for you as well.  Firstly, focus on the why.  Cameron says he “keeps a family picture of my wife and my boys” on his desk. Second, seek out opportunities to push yourself outside your comfort zone. Finally, don’t get too comfortable and rely on repeat business from your established client base.  Instead, continue to make marketing calls to the organizations who do not know you.

Cameron Boyd Bio and Contact Info

Cameron Boyd is a 15-year veteran of the executive search industry.  Cameron spent the first 5 years of his search career with a franchise office of Sanford Rose Associates, recruiting attorneys for in-house legal departments and for local, regional, and national law firms.  In 2010 he joined his current firm, now called Smith & Wilkinson, which at the time was a franchise of the MRI network.  While affiliated with MRI, Cameron was the 2011 International Rookie Account Executive of the Year, a 5-time Top 50 Account Executive, a 2016 Top 10 Account Executive, and perennial Pacesetter.  Cameron’s search practice is focused on serving financial services companies in the eastern US, primarily at the C-suite and Officer level.  In his 10+ years with Smith & Wilkinson, he has completed over 250 key leadership searches in technology, operations, finance, lending, marketing, HR, wealth management, and risk management.  Cameron has also personally led or played a key role in, 17 highly visible President/CEO searches.  As the firm’s 2nd largest shareholder, he has been instrumental in the six-fold revenue growth that the company has enjoyed over the past decade and is a passionate supporter of their charitable giving initiatives.  Cameron is a member of the Pinnacle Society, the premier consortium of industry-leading recruitment professionals and a graduate of Hartwick College in Oneonta, New York.  He has personally volunteered with the local United Way as a member of its Organizational Development and Human Resources Committee and volunteered as a Meals on Wheels driver during the COVID pandemic. Cameron and his family live in coastal Maine and enjoy hiking, boating, and travel.

• Cameron on LinkedIn
• Smith and Wilkinson website link: https://www.smithandwilkinson.com/
• Full Plates - A cause Cameron dearly support: https://www.fullplates.org/

People and Resources Mentioned

• The Pinnacle Society website link
• Rich Rosen on LinkedIn
• Paul Hallam on LinkedIn
• Nathan Francis on LinkedIn

• Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call: www.recruitmentcoach.com/strategy-session/
• Mark on LinkedIn
• Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
• Mark on Facebook
• Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

• TRR #6  Habits of a Million-Dollar Biller, with Rich Rosen
• TRR #31 Protecting Your Team’s Mental Health While Scaling Your Search Business, with Paul Hallam

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Imagine this - you’ve worked really hard to deliver talent for your client’s urgent requirement. It was a tough spec but you found the perfect candidate. You managed to contact them, get them interested in the job, conduct a full screening interview, and submit the candidate's CV. Sadly your client changed their mind. They would not be hiring the candidate you’ve introduced, therefore no placement fee unfortunately. But after some time, you discovered that they’ve actually hired the candidate. Sound familiar?

Yes, backdoor hires can be frustrating to you as a recruiter or a recruitment business owner. Today’s episode actually deals with this dilemma as our special guest, Barry Cullen, offers very practical advice and solutions to prevent, detect, and recover losses resulting from fee disputes and backdoor hires.

Barry is the Founder and Director of introPROTECT, a London based law firm who are experts in backdoor hire and fee disputes. Barry has a unique and interesting background. Prior to training as a solicitor, he started his career as a recruiter.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [0:55] Barry’s unique background and “history of failures” leading him to where he is now.
• [14:25] From a solicitor’s perspective - the pandemic’s impact on recruiters with clients who can’t or won’t pay their invoices.
• [21:26] Prevention is better than cure - 7 tips on how to prevent backdoor hires.
• [28:39] Sending your MPC (Most Placeable Candidate) email - what to avoid and what to include.  
• [31:47] Barry’s take on multi-agency disputes and the right to represent.
• [41:20] Dealing with how the word “introduction” is commonly misunderstood in recruitment.
• [52:54] Barry explains the IntroPROTECT solution
• [54:50] In case of a business falling out with a client, what should you do first before taking the legal route?
• [1:01:40] If you are looking to do business internationally, what are the things you should consider from a legal perspective in case of a fee dispute? 

Law Practice and Recruitment

What do law practitioners and recruiters have in common?

“I came to realize actually, that being a litigator which is what I do, is basically recruitment,” Barry’s realization came about when he transitioned from being a recruiter to becoming a solicitor. He further explained, “If you are a recruiter you’ve got a candidate. If you are a litigator you’ve got a case. They are fairly similar things, right? I’m having to convince the other side, no matter how good my case is, I’ve got to convince the other side that my case is better than theirs. So a recruiter, even if their candidate is the best candidate they have for the job, they have to convince the client that they have the best person for them. So that’s very similar.”

Of course, having multiple stakeholders, putting deals together, trying to influence people’s perception, and managing expectations are some of the things that make recruiters similar to law professionals. Barry’s experience as a recruiter enables him to marry his law expertise with the needs of his clients who are recruiters and recruitment business owners.

What can you do to Prevent Backdoor Hires?

Backdoor hires can happen. But there are some things within our control to protect our clients, ourselves, and our recruitment business. Here are some practical tips from Barry:

1. Have your terms of business in place and have it well-drafted. 
2. Go through these terms with your client and ensure that they have explicitly agreed. 
3. Place references to your terms (ie. placing a handy URL to the terms)
4. Do good recruitment. Don’t just send a CV out to 50,000 hiring managers.
5. When identifying a candidate, make sure you are identifying the right people.
6. Follow up and follow through.
7. Get a good audit trail of everything you do.

Sending Out an MPC Email? Don’t Send a Spec CV.

For a lot of recruiters, sending out an MPC email is one of the most challenging arenas in getting their fee paid. What should you do to avoid this situation? As you’ve read in the subtitle, do not send a specific CV. Instead, you may want to consider Barry’s advice: “If you happen to send a CV to a hiring manager and somebody in that company ultimately hires that person, it is much harder to show that you should get paid and that can be an issue...Take the time to craft the summary. Here is a very brief summary of why this candidate is worth working with. Not enough to identify who they are, but enough to wet the whistle.”

Essentially a summary or teaser of the candidate’s key achievements and selling point should be sufficient. And if the client is interested, then they come back and have a conversation before you send the CV. Barry added, “The really nice thing about that as well, is if that summary is going out with your terms attach, and the hiring manager then responding to you ‘Yes please send me the CV’, your terms will probably have a provision in there that requesting CVs from the agency is deemed an acceptance provision.”

Barry Cullen Bio and Contact Info

Barry is a solicitor, specialist in recruitment, and the founder of introPROTECT, UK's leading experts on recruitment fee disputes. With over 19 years in the recruitment industry - now as a solicitor and previously at the coal face as a recruiter and agency owner, Barry has a complete understanding of the industry, its key players, and the pressures affecting them. Barry’s personal specialism is avoiding or resolving litigation by the education of opponents so that they pay or brokerage of deals to ensure the best outcome for our recruitment clients. Preventing and successfully resolving backdoor hire, rebate, and other introduction fee disputes is where Barry really thrives. Whether advising in the background, brokering a deal directly with end clients, or enforcing through the courts, Barry’s focus is on getting the best overall outcome for clients, whether by way of payment, guaranteed future business, or both.

• IntroPROTECT website link: http://www.introprotect.com/
• IntroPROTECT on LinkedIn
• Barry on LinkedIn

• Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call: www.recruitmentcoach.com/strategy-session/
• Mark on LinkedIn
• Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
• Mark on Facebook
• Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

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When times are tough, many recruiters go into desperation mode. They drop their rates and work on every order they can get.  Even before the pandemic, the norm in our industry has been a transactional, “CV supplier” style service in competition with multiple agencies.  It’s an incredibly frustrating and demoralizing place to be.

So how do you change your business model to retained recruitment?  How can you charge a premium and persuade clients to pay you up-front?  How do you work exclusively or even win MSP (Managed Service Provider) contracts?    

Well, it involves differentiating your service and shifting customer perception.  That shift actually begins within your own mindset.  In today’s episode, my guest Plamen Ivanoff, recommends that you start by dropping the word  ‘recruiter’ from your job title!

Plamen is the Chairman of the Executive Search and Selection firm, GrassGreener Group™, and Co-Founder of technology company, i-intro®. The i-intro® process helps Recruitment

and Search firm owners successfully transition their businesses from the typical “CV supplier” transactional contingency recruitment to the more meaningful, retained recruitment and MSP (Managed Service Provider), consultative models.  To date they have helped over 200 recruitment and search firms to generate £100 million in retained fees.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [3:19] Plamen shares his journey in the recruitment industry.
• [8:09] How Plamen went from pure contingent to 100% retained
• [17:24] Customer perception and differentiation - finding your unique value proposition.
• [22:08] Instead of “New Normal”, how to focus on the  “New Excellent” during this pandemic
• [31:20] Why it will never be the same after the coronavirus crisis and what it means to your recruitment business
• [42:24] What is the good news for recruitment micro-businesses?
• [51:45] Selling points of “risk reversal” - does a 12-month replacement guarantee make business sense?
• [1:00:08] Why you should drop the word “recruiter” from your job title, and what to call yourself instead.

Customer Perception and Why Differentiation Matters 

The recruitment industry is fiercely competitive at the best of times.  During an economic downturn, the competition is even more intense. One major element affected is price pressure. Without differentiation and unique customer perception, there is a possibility that clients would rather go to where they get the lowest price.  This can lead to the gradual erosion of placement fees. Plamen quoted REC’s (Recruitment and Employment Confederation UK) statistics which shows that last year’s market benchmark on fees is 14.7%. He believes that this year’s statistics will come down lower. He emphasized the relevance of having a unique value proposition. As Plamen said: 

“I believe this year’s statistics will drop down even further because of exactly the point that you make. Recruiters don’t have the option to compete on anything else because the perception is already set for the client… So some companies are going to market saying ‘I’ll take 12%, I’ll take 10%, just give me the job because I’ve got mouths to feed otherwise I will have to sack these recruiters...’  All of this is happening as we speak now. So this pressure on fees will be considerable. So [if] you provide a recruitment service that is a “me-too” recruitment service like everybody else, you are very likely to be feeling the pressure of fees. But if you take your service out of the “me-too” recruitment, and create what I call “me-only” recruitment, it is above and beyond.”

Five Stages of Behavioral Shifts in Times of Crisis

Plamen also shared five stages of behavioral shifts by business owners which is more than relevant during this economic crisis. Below is the summary:

1. Overreaction / Fear - panic, business hibernating, putting people in furlough
2. People looking for a new base or new normal - people starting to have more interaction online and start to adjust to the new normal.
3. Hoping for good news - people start to look for good news and how they will position themselves to new opportunities
4. Slow Recovery - more opportunities are starting to come in and early adapters build up relationships with clients.
5. The Late Majority Arrival - those who just waited on what will just happen will pay the price. Positioning yourself to the forefront, being agile, and flexible is the key to do better.

Navigating in these difficult times can be challenging for both large and small recruitment businesses. But as Plamen said, those that are more agile, early adapters, will have more chances of success.

Drop the Word Recruiter From Your Title

Plamen emphasized during our conversation the importance of being consultative to your clients rather than just being transactional. As he said, “Drop the ‘recruiter’ from your title. You need to become a talent acquisition management consultant. Management consultants are associated with improvement and value add.”

Plamen Ivanoff Bio and Contact Info

Plamen Ivanoff is the Executive Chairman and Co-Founder of the Executive Search and Selection firm, GrassGreener Group™, and i-intro®. The i-intro® process helps Recruitment

and Search firm owners successfully transition their businesses from the typical “CV supplier” transactional contingency recruitment to the more meaningful, retained recruitment and MSP (Managed Service Provider), consultative models.

i-intro® enables recruiters to deliver to their clients an unparalleled new employee retention rate of over 96% in the first year while reducing commercial downtime and

overall cost-to-hire for employers. At the time of writing, over 1000 recruiters and 200 firms around the world have transformed their business with i-intro®, winning in excess of £100 million in retained fees.

• Plamen on LinkedIn
• i-intro website link
• The Wired Recruiter website link
• i-intro on Facebook
• i-intro on Twitter @iintro_
• i-intro on Youtube
• i-intro on Instagram
• Free i-intro consultation

Plamen’s e-Books

• Death of Contingency Recruitment - request here.
• Redundant? How to Future Proof Your Recruitment Business - request here.
• The Rewired Recruiter - How to Reinvent Yourself for a Rapidly Changing Industry - request here.

People and Resources Mentioned

• The Shift: The Future of Work is Already Here by Lynda Gratton 
• The Retained Recruiter Academy - Leveraging Content Marketing by Mark Whitby - request the video here.

• Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call: www.recruitmentcoach.com/strategy-session/
• Mark on LinkedIn
• Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
• Mark on Facebook
• Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

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“Our mums were best friends...” When Dan Matthews and Justin McGuire played together as children, nobody could have predicted that they would one day build a global recruitment company with offices in Amsterdam, Brisbane, Dubai, Hong Kong, Los Angeles, London, New York, Perth and Singapore.

What makes this story even more remarkable is that as they grew up, Dan and Justin lost touch with one another but both ended up working in recruitment.  By a remarkable coincidence, they both ended up recruiting in the same industry -- advertising, creative, marketing, communications and ultimately they both ended up starting their own businesses, independently of each other. Years later, living in different parts of the world, they reconnected and realized there were incredible synergies to be had by merging their business to become a truly global organization.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [1:15] Dan and Justin share their origin story - from being childhood friends to merging their recruitment businesses to form DMCG Global.
• [11:35] The pandemic’s impact on DMCG; how they have adapted their business model to future proof the business and accelerate growth.
• [17:33] The Licensee model - how Dan and Justin are giving recruiters a turn-key business opportunity to become franchisees and partners of DMCG Global.
• [24:25] The frustrations and challenges of growing a recruitment company that ultimately inspired Dan and Justin to create their new business model
• [33:10] On mental health -- Dan and Justin share their own struggles with anxiety and burnout; how Justin “hit the wall.”
• [41:50] How Justin has billed close to $1m this year despite a challenging market.
• [50:00] Diversity and Inclusion as a differentiator; the technology platform that enables clients and recruiters to source, select and hire diverse talent.

A Radical Remodelling

Dan explained how DMCG Global is reinventing their business to encourage peer autonomy, reduce cost and increase revenue. Instead of “employees” they have “partners” -- self-employed recruiters who are effectively running their own business with the benefit of being part of a global brand.  Partners are provided with the technology, systems, back-office support and a dedicated marketing team. Plus ongoing mentoring and a peer community/support network.  centralized support team including digital marketing and back-office functions, and providing a  The support team enables the partners to focus only on recruitment - further motivated by an increased commission structure where they keep 60 - 80% of their billings. 

The rationale behind this change? Dan explained: “Under the new scheme, even if someone isn’t billing that much due to the pandemic, they still take home enough to get by. But at the top end, the 80% margin, that’s a lot of money. And we worked it out, our team in London and New York were making double or three times as much as they would have made on the original model.”

Justin added, “The goal really is… we are building budding entrepreneurs. And this is a great way of them still feeling part of a family. But also being able to take away the maximum out of their earning as well. It just seems to tick all the boxes. And also, we wanted to create something that was a point of difference for our consultants ” 

Definitely an exciting and interesting model, this has been very successful for DMCG so far. 

Dealing with Anxiety and Burnout

When talking about the greatest adversity that they have ever faced, Justin shared that recent circumstances in this period of the pandemic has caused him to feel burnout and anxiety. He admitted that this is not something that he had experienced previously. As Justin said, “Looking back at it, I think it's just a series of small things that started to build up over time.” 

How did he get through this feeling of burnout? He mentioned activities that give him a sense of normalcy and continuity. “Making sure the teams are motivated...Making sure my family was safe, secure, and happy…” He eventually felt things were going back to normal. To be open about this is truly admirable. A lot of people are going through the same situation.

If you are a recruitment business owner or recruiter, becoming aware of this feeling of overwhelm is a good starting point. As Dan also pointed out, “As a business owner... the last six months, 9 months, has been a very challenging period for everyone on the recruitment, or anyone all over the world right now. People are dealing with it in their own way. Justin has been great in actually noticing it, recognizing that, and actually dealing with it. And now coming to the other side and talking about it, that is admirable.”

DMCG Global Background and Contact Info

DMCG Global is a new recruitment agency created by the Founders of Daniel Marks, MCG&Co & SEVENTWENTY. It has 10 global offices in Brisbane, Dubai, Hong Kong, London, Singapore, New York, Amsterdam, Perth, Sydney, and Los Angeles. DMCG has global recruitment specialists for the advertising, creative, marketing, communications and technology industries.

Co-founder Justin McGuire and Dan Matthews used to be childhood friends. 

Dan has twenty years of experience in Marketing, Advertising, Creative & Digital recruitment and has worked extensively throughout the UK, Europe, USA and Globally to deliver solutions to a broad array of leading blue-chip brands, consultancies and creative agencies.  

Justin began his professional career in London at the start of the digital boom, working in client servicing for a communications agency. He joined a headhunting firm based in London, setting up and leading the advertising and media business. Justin was then approached by a leading multi-national recruitment company and invited to relocate to Dubai. Following a thoroughly enjoyable and rewarding two years, his experience in the communication industry combined with recruitment, training, and market knowledge, positioned him to set-up his own enterprise. MCG&Co (now DMCG Global) was born in Dubai in 2010 with a single vision: to connect the best businesses with the brightest talent in the marketing, communications and digital space

• DMCG Global website link: www.dmcgglobal.com
• Diversely website link: www.diversely.io
• DMCG Global on LinkedIn
• DMCG Global on Facebook
• Justin McGuire on LinkedIn
• Dan Matthews on LinkedIn

People and Resources Mentioned

• Mentioned Justin’s LinkedIn post about mental health.

• Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call: www.recruitmentcoach.com/strategy-session/
• Mark on LinkedIn
• Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
• Mark on Facebook
• Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

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