show notes

Are you trying to use AI to speed up your sales cycle, only to find it's making your prospects' experience worse? The key is using technology to your advantage, not against you.

In this episode, I'm joined by Doug Foley, an expert in sales enablement and AI integration. He shares his insights on leveraging AI tools to build more meaningful client relationships and enhance your sales process from start to finish.

Meet Doug Foley

·  Douglas J. Foley is a strategic advisor, accomplished author, and the founder and CEO of Foley Media AI, where he architects AI-driven revenue engines for CEOs, high-growth companies, and Fortune 100 organizations. 

·  Leveraging frameworks such as his Customer Loyalty Framework and AI Sales Engine™, Doug delivers predictable, measurable growth and transformative EBITDA results. 

·  His practical, results-focused methodologies help senior leaders confidently scale and optimize their businesses.

Why AI Matters in Enterprise Sales

·  Doug shares his journey, outlining the frequent gaps he’s seen in sales enablement and how AI, when implemented strategically, can fill those voids. 

·  Many organizations only use AI for surface-level tasks like faster email writing or market research.

·  Doug urges sellers and business owners to expand beyond this "tunnel vision" and embrace AI as a tool for relationship-building and holistic sales strategy.

Practical Steps for Implementing AI

·  When leaders are training sales teams on using AI tools, Doug suggests showing them how to map out the buyer’s journey and integrate AI at key touchpoints such as post-meeting follow-ups. 

·  He stresses the importance of system-based thinking in deploying AI and highlights the significant gains in productivity and customer experience that even small changes can deliver.

Tips for Sales Leaders and Reps

·  For busy sales managers, Doug suggests starting small: introduce an "AI-first" mentality in team meetings and encourage reps to share how AI helps overcome everyday roadblocks. 

·  He emphasizes celebrating early AI wins to build momentum and foster an innovative culture.

Advanced AI Strategies

·  Here’s actionable advice for reps targeting enterprise accounts: Use AI-powered research for deeper stakeholder mapping, create hyper-relevant outreach campaigns, and build a memorable, white-glove experience for clients. 

·  Doug shares that impactful AI usage means slowing down to get ultra-targeted, which leads to better results and stronger deal pipelines.

“The biggest mistake most people make is they look at it from strictly efficiency...but they don’t look at it more holistically as how can I build a bigger, better relationship and use AI.” - Doug Foley.

Resources

·  Reach Doug Foley at Foley Media AI or on social platforms as @DouglasJFoley.

·  If you like more guidance with improving your sales skills, join my Sales Mastermind Class.

·  Thinking about starting a podcast yourself? Learn more about Blue Mango Studios. 

Sponsorship Offers

1.    This episode is brought to you in part by Hubspot.

With HubSpot sales hubs, your data tools and teams join a single platform to close deals and turn prospects into pipelines. Try it for yourself at hubspot.com/sales.

2.  This episode is brought to you in part by LinkedIn.

Are you tired of prospective clients not responding to your emails? Sign up for a free 60-day trial of LinkedIn Sales Navigator at linkedin.com/tse.

3.  This episode is brought to you in part by the TSE Sales Foundation.

Improve your connection on LinkedIn and land three or five appointments with our LinkedIn prospecting course. Go to the salesevangelist.com/linkedin.

Credits

As one of our podcast listeners, we value your opinion and always want to improve the quality of our show. Complete our two-minute survey here: thesalesevangelist.com/survey. We’d love for you to join us for our next episodes by tuning in on Apple Podcast, Google Podcast, Stitcher, or Spotify. Audio provided by Free SFX, Soundstripe, and Bensound. Other songs used in the episodes are as follows: The Organ Grinder written by Bradley Jay Hill, performed by Bright Seed, and Produced by Brightseed and Hill.

Today's buyers are more informed than ever, thanks to AI. Yet, they remain wary of sellers who rely on it too heavily, creating a unique challenge: How can you leverage technology to enhance your sales process without losing the authentic, personal connection that closes deals?

To answer that question, I'm joined by Daren Fields, a sales expert and author of the Apex 8 framework. He shares his sales methodology to help you start winning enterprise deals in the AI era. 

Meet Daren Fields      

Darren Fields is an experienced sales leader, author, and innovator in the world of enterprise and edge software sales.   

Drawing from years of hands-on selling and sales leadership, Darren has developed practical frameworks to help sales professionals stand out in today’s AI-driven landscape. 

He is the creator of the Apex8 Framework, a methodology designed to help sellers build trust quickly, leverage AI effectively, and guide buyers through today’s complex decision-making processes.

Current Challenge in Modern Sales

AI has transformed the buying landscape, making prospects more informed about their product decisions. This has made it harder for sellers to move deals forward, as AI technology can now deliver basic information.  

Daren wants sellers to think of buyers like a media interviewer who’s filled with fast information. This allows them to match the buyer’s pace and depth by using the Apex8 sales framework and prevent losing deals. 

The Apex 8 Framework: The Eight Steps

The framework has a core idea of using conscious competence to help sellers remain deliberately skillful and self-aware. The goal of sellers is to help guide buyers' thinking into a mutual success by actively discovering their true problem and validating solutions in real time. Sellers follow these eight steps:

o  Discovery – Go beyond basic questioning. Research the prospect thoroughly using AI before the call so you can dive straight into real business problems.

o  Prototyping – Collaborate live (e.g., whiteboarding with AI tools), showing problem-solving skills and flexibility, turning the call into a collaborative session rather than a static demo.

o  Validation – Actively check if you’re on the right track with the buyer; confirm you’re addressing the real problem and adjust as needed.

o  Rehearsal – Practice and refine presentations/demos; this is emphasized as an “art form.”

o  Presentation/Demo – Deliver tailored solutions based on previous steps, not generic pitches.

o  Finalization – If prior steps were done right, closing the deal becomes more natural and less adversarial.

o  Debrief – Analyze every outcome (win or lose) in a safe, blame-free environment to identify improvements and share insights across teams.

o  Handoff – Ensure smooth transition to delivery/customer experience teams with thorough context so clients never feel lost after the sale.

Embrace the Human-AI Partnership

AI is a leveler—it helps both you and your competition.

Don’t try to replace human interaction with AI; find a balance where technology enables you to be a more innovative, trusted advisor.

“Everybody wants to skip through the loss and move on to the next thing. The best teacher in life is failure. The losses teach you way more than the wins.” - Daren Fields. 

Resources

To learn more about Daren or get his book, go to apex8book.com

If you like more guidance with improving your sales skills, join my Sales Mastermind Class.

Thinking about starting a podcast yourself? Learn more about Blue Mango Studios. 

Sponsorship Offers

1.    This episode is brought to you in part by Hubspot.

With HubSpot sales hubs, your data tools and teams join a single platform to close deals and turn prospects into pipelines. Try it for yourself at hubspot.com/sales.

2.  This episode is brought to you in part by LinkedIn.

Are you tired of prospective clients not responding to your emails? Sign up for a free 60-day trial of LinkedIn Sales Navigator at linkedin.com/tse.

3.  This episode is brought to you in part by the TSE Sales Foundation.

Improve your connection on LinkedIn and land three or five appointments with our LinkedIn prospecting course. Go to the salesevangelist.com/linkedin.

Credits

As one of our podcast listeners, we value your opinion and always want to improve the quality of our show. Complete our two-minute survey here: thesalesevangelist.com/survey. We’d love for you to join us for our next episodes by tuning in on Apple Podcast, Google Podcast, Stitcher, or Spotify. Audio provided by Free SFX, Soundstripe, and Bensound. Other songs used in the episodes are as follows: The Organ Grinder written by Bradley Jay Hill, performed by Bright Seed, and Produced by Brightseed and Hill.

After three to four follow-up emails, you start feeling like you're just an annoying fly to your prospects. Honestly, you're probably just buzzing their inboxes, especially if you're only sending simple "just checking in" messages. In this episode, I'll show you how to send follow-up emails that actually grab your prospects' attention.

Quick Stat

• Here's an interesting stat: It takes six to twelve interactions for prospects to respond and follow through on closing a deal. 
• This doesn’t mean you have to send six to twelve cold calls or follow-up emails. 
• You should probably stop sending those generic follow-up emails—they don't work. 
• The act of reconnecting with a prospect is following up, so you don't have to tell them what you're doing.

Use the MEDDIC Sales Methodology

• Go back to your discovery call or your initial conversation to remember why your prospect needed a change in their business. 
• When you talk to them again or send them a message, try something like this: "You mentioned you were using a product that wasn't working. Here's how my solution can help you."
• Check out episode 1923, and I share more details about the MEDDIC sales methodology. 

Other Ways to Follow Up

• Instead of writing a regular follow-up email, consider using data or information that isn’t directly tied to the deal you're trying to close. I tell a story of how I did this with an old prospect on a social media platform.
• Also, try to use more than one method of communication—this will help you stay in touch with them. I'll offer some creative ways to follow up on social media.
• Always bring something to the table that will help the prospect or identify an issue they may be having in their company. No matter what platform you’re using, this will help with engagement from them.

“The fact that you reach out to them is following up. They are going to remember you, and you don’t have to tell them what you’re doing.” — Donald C. Kelly.

Resources

• If you like more guidance with improving your sales skills, join my Sales Mastermind Class.
• Thinking about starting a podcast yourself? Learn more about BlueMango Studios. 

Sponsorship Offers

1. This episode is brought to you in part by Hubspot.

With HubSpot sales hubs, your data tools and teams join a single platform to close deals and turn prospects into pipelines. Try it for yourself at hubspot.com/sales.

2.  This episode is brought to you in part by LinkedIn.

Are you tired of prospective clients not responding to your emails? Sign up for a free 60-day trial of LinkedIn Sales Navigator at linkedin.com/tse.

3.  This episode is brought to you in part by the TSE Sales Foundation.

Improve your connection on LinkedIn and land three or five appointments with our LinkedIn prospecting course. Go to the salesevangelist.com/linkedin.

Credits

As one of our podcast listeners, we value your opinion and always want to improve the quality of our show. Complete our two-minute survey here: thesalesevangelist.com/survey. We’d love for you to join us for our next episodes by tuning in on Apple Podcast, Google Podcast, Stitcher, or Spotify. Audio provided by Free SFX, Soundstripe, and Bensound. Other songs used in the episodes are as follows: The Organ Grinder written by Bradley Jay Hill, performed by Bright Seed, and Produced by Brightseed and Hill.

It’s in the data! Reps who used some form of sales methodology are 33% more likely to hit their quota than those who don’t.

But which one is the best one to use? Join me in this episode where I break down MEDDIC vs. BANT sales methodologies to help you decide which one is the best option for you. I’ll tell you what they are and provide examples of when you should use them.

What Is the BANT Sales Methodology? 

• BANT is a simple sales process that most sales rep often learn early in their careers. It stands for:
• Budget
• Authority
• Need
• Timing
• When you use this sales methodology, you determine the client’s budget, if the person you’re talking to is a decision maker, what the need or pain you’re trying to solve, and how soon they’re trying to fix it.
• Also, I like to adapt this method to better suit the client's needs and make it more understandable throughout the process.

What Is the MEDDIC Sales Methodology?

• This has nothing to do with medicine, even though sales reps in the medical field can use it to their advantage. Here’s what MEDDIC stands for:
• Metrics
• Economic buyer
• Decision criteria
• Decision process
• Identifying a pain point
• Champion 
• I provide an example of selling a software product that’s competing with QuickBooks, and I’m trying to persuade you to use my services instead. This helps you understand each component of the MEDDIC sales methodology.
• Also, I share details on MEDDPICC (which adds Competition) and MEDDPIIC (which adds paper processing). 

Which Sales Methodology Is the Best One?

• Here’s the short answer: neither. It will all depend on your client and the type of deal you’re going for. 
• For example, you’ll use BANT in a situation where the deal is less than $2,500. This is because it’s simple.
• Usually, it goes over this amount, then you may use the MEDDIC sales methodology. It will all depend on the situation. 

“There is no one way to do this. Some of you may be using different sales methods. The point is that you need to use something!” - Donald C. Kelly. 

Resources

• If you like more guidance with improving your sales skills, join my Sales Mastermind Class.
• Thinking about starting a podcast yourself? Learn more about BlueMango Studios. 

Sponsorship Offers

1. This episode is brought to you in part by Hubspot.

With HubSpot sales hubs, your data tools and teams join a single platform to close deals and turn prospects into pipelines. Try it for yourself at hubspot.com/sales.

2.  This episode is brought to you in part by LinkedIn.

Are you tired of prospective clients not responding to your emails? Sign up for a free 60-day trial of LinkedIn Sales Navigator at linkedin.com/tse.

3.  This episode is brought to you in part by the TSE Sales Foundation.

Improve your connection on LinkedIn and land three or five appointments with our LinkedIn prospecting course. Go to the salesevangelist.com/linkedin.

Credits

As one of our podcast listeners, we value your opinion and always want to improve the quality of our show. Complete our two-minute survey here: thesalesevangelist.com/survey. We’d love for you to join us for our next episodes by tuning in on Apple Podcast, Google Podcast, Stitcher, or Spotify. Audio provided by Free SFX, Soundstripe, and Bensound. Other songs used in the episodes are as follows: The Organ Grinder written by Bradley Jay Hill, performed by Bright Seed, and Produced by Brightseed and Hill.

Today, Dr. Noah St. John is here to challenge everything you thought you knew about why some people thrive and others get stuck. If you want to level up your success in any area of your life, the first thing you must do is to change your mindset. Dr. Noah is going to show you how to conquer the "head trash" that holds us back, break through income plateaus, and unlock results.

Meet Dr. Noah St. John

• Dr. Noah has been teaching clients for 30 years and is credited with helping them add a collective $3 billion in revenue. 
• He is known as the "Done with Head Trash" guy and is a leader of the movement to help people get past their self-imposed limitations. 
• He has written 25 books on the subject and has helped individuals and organizations ranging from 100 to 10,000.

Inner Game vs. Outer Game: The 80% Rule

• Dr. Noah argues that success is at least 80% about your "inner game". The inner game is everything happening in your mind, including the beliefs and stories you tell yourself. 
• While "outer game" activities like making calls and sending emails are important, Dr. Noah emphasizes that mindset is the true bottleneck for most people.

Clearing Out the "Head Trash"

• Dr. Noah defines "head trash" as the internal voice that says, "I can't because...". This self-limiting dialogue is what prevents sales professionals and entrepreneurs from reaching their full potential. 
• He explains that by identifying and clearing this mental clutter, you can stop proving your own limitations right.

From $4 Million to $20 Million: A Real-Life Example

• Dr. Noah shares a powerful case study about a client whose company was stuck at $4 million in revenue for four years. 
• After hiring Dr. Noah, they focused on the inner game, and in less than 18 months, the company's revenue skyrocketed to over $20 million. This success was a direct result of addressing the team's mindset, not just their outer game tactics.

Practical Steps to Break Free

• Want to get off the "hamster wheel"? Dr. Noah gives steps to take right away.
• Get Clear on Your Goals: You must be specific about what you want to achieve, whether it's more money or a better relationship.
• Identify Your Limitations: Pinpoint the reasons you think you can't reach your goals, like not having enough time, money, or confidence.
• Take Action (Even Without Confidence): The myth that confidence comes first is dismantled here. Dr. Noah stresses that you build confidence by taking action, even if you don't feel ready.

Advice for Sales Leaders

• For those who lead teams, Dr. Noah suggests bringing in outside help to create a mindset shift. 
• He offers resources, including his online course, and invites leaders to book him to train their teams. 
• By focusing on mindset training and goal-setting exercises, leaders can unlock next-level results and help their teams become unstoppable.

“If you take action even if you don’t believe, confidence will come. Most people wait for confidence, but it’s action that really unlocks it.” - Dr. Noah St. John.

Resources

• Done With Head Trash Course: donewithheadtrash.com — Dr. Noah’s self-paced program to transform limiting beliefs.
• Main Website for Programs/Resources: noahstjohn.com — Books, courses, and tools for entrepreneurs and sales professionals.
• To Book Dr. Noah for Speaking/Training: booknoah.com.
• If you like more guidance with improving your sales skills, join my Sales Mastermind Class.
• Thinking about starting a podcast yourself? Learn more about Blue Mango Studios. 

Sponsorship Offers

1. This episode is brought to you in part by Hubspot.

With HubSpot sales hubs, your data tools and teams join a single platform to close deals and turn prospects into pipelines. Try it for yourself at hubspot.com/sales.

2.  This episode is brought to you in part by LinkedIn.

Are you tired of prospective clients not responding to your emails? Sign up for a free 60-day trial of LinkedIn Sales Navigator at linkedin.com/tse.

3.  This episode is brought to you in part by the TSE Sales Foundation.

Improve your connection on LinkedIn and land three or five appointments with our LinkedIn prospecting course. Go to the salesevangelist.com/linkedin.

Credits

As one of our podcast listeners, we value your opinion and always want to improve the quality of our show. Complete our two-minute survey here: thesalesevangelist.com/survey. We’d love for you to join us for our next episodes by tuning in on Apple Podcast, Google Podcast, Stitcher, or Spotify. Audio provided by Free SFX, Soundstripe, and Bensound. Other songs used in the episodes are as follows: The Organ Grinder written by Bradley Jay Hill, performed by Bright Seed, and Produced by Brightseed and Hill.

Is traditional sales outreach becoming less effective? And if so, what replaces it?

In today's episode, I chat with Jean-Philippe Schepens van Thiel, founder of AxonJay, about how real-time data, predictive behavior, and AI-generated signals are fundamentally changing how we approach sales. If you’ve ever felt like your messaging is falling flat or that your timing is always off, this conversation is your blueprint for modernizing outreach.

Meet Jean-Philippe Schepens van Thiel

Jean-Philippe is the founder and CEO of AxonJay AI, a company helping B2B sellers harness the power of predictive signals to find the right opportunities at the right time. With over 15 years in data-driven sales and marketing, including a successful exit to Dun & Bradstreet, JP is now on a mission to help sales teams break through the noise and win deals with precision.

Sales Outreach at an Inflection Point

Buyers are bombarded by thousands of messages a week, most of which they delete without reading. Jean-Philippe believes we’ve hit a critical point in the evolution of sales, where volume no longer wins relevance and timing does. Instead of relying on old data and gut instinct, modern sales teams need to know when to reach out, what to say, and why it matters to the buyer right now.

Build Your Sales Cocktail

Jean-Philippe compares outreach success to making the perfect cocktail: timing, targeting, and content must all be in balance. One missing or outdated ingredient ruins the mix. Using AI, his company translates billions of daily data points into actionable signals then helps reps validate and fine-tune their approach using real-time context.

Let AI Enhance, Not Replace, the Human Element

Contrary to fear-mongering about AI replacing jobs, JP argues that AI will actually make sales more human. With technology handling research and signal aggregation, salespeople can focus on high-value conversations, empathy, and relationship-building.

“It’s not about more data. It’s about the right data.”

“Outreach isn’t dead—but it’s evolved.”

“You need the right message at the right time.”

“I want you to come to me with stuff proving.”

Lessons from the Field

• Stop using last year’s data to make today’s decisions.
• Think beyond single signals and build context with a cocktail of signals.
• Use AI to filter your target list down to the 10% who are ready now.
• Personalize messaging with current, relevant activity not guesses.
• Combine automation with human feedback to improve results over time.

Resources

• Learn more at Axonjay.ai
• Connect with Jean-Philippe via email ([email protected]) or through the website
• Improve your outreach and sales game join our Sales Mastermind Class
• Thinking of launching a podcast? Check out Blue Mango Studios

Sponsorship Offers

1. This episode is brought to you in part by Hubspot.

With HubSpot sales hubs, your data tools and teams join a single platform to close deals and turn prospects into pipelines. Try it for yourself at hubspot.com/sales.

2.  This episode is brought to you in part by LinkedIn.

Are you tired of prospective clients not responding to your emails? Sign up for a free 60-day trial of LinkedIn Sales Navigator at linkedin.com/tse.

3.  This episode is brought to you in part by the TSE Sales Foundation.

Improve your connection on LinkedIn and land three or five appointments with our LinkedIn prospecting course. Go to the salesevangelist.com/linkedin.

Credits

As one of our podcast listeners, we value your opinion and always want to improve the quality of our show. Complete our two-minute survey here: thesalesevangelist.com/survey. We’d love for you to join us for our next episodes by tuning in on Apple Podcast, Google Podcast, Stitcher, or Spotify. Audio provided by Free SFX, Soundstripe, and Bensound. Other songs used in the episodes are as follows: The Organ Grinder written by Bradley Jay Hill, performed by Bright Seed, and Produced by Brightseed and Hill.

Is it possible to get your entire sales team to work together and crush goals one after another? Consider all the benefits your organization would gain if this were to actually happen.

To make this dream a reality, listen to my chat with Justin Balik, co-founder of Wealth InsurED, in this episode. He shares three sales tactics that brought his company from half a million to three million in 90 days.

Meet Justin Balik 

• Justin has been a force in financial services since graduating from the University of Miami in 2012. He quickly rose from agent to a top 10 manager among 10,000+ peers. 
• Now, he and his wife own a business revolutionizing IUL sales training, producing high-end agents with unparalleled speed and results in the industry. 
• He has helped tens of thousands with insurance and retirement, specializing recently in tax minimization for high-net-worth clients.

Specialize Your Sales Roles 

• Most sales teams have reps doing everything: prospecting, appointment-setting, closing, and follow-up. 
• Justin broke the process into specialized roles—so each person focused only on their highest-value work. This helped free up the top closers, who were freed from low-value, time-consuming tasks. 
• The result: higher efficiency, faster pipeline movement, and more revenue. 
• Ask yourself: where is your team doing $10/hour work instead of $10,000/hour work?

Go After High-Ticket Clients 

• Instead of focusing on high-volume, low-value sales, Justin’s team intentionally shifted to larger, more valuable deals. 
• They targeted higher-level clients who not only respected the process, but were easier to work with—and produced exponentially greater revenue per deal. 
• Justin’s advice: Identify and pursue the upper echelon of your market, and don’t let assumptions about “difficulty” of big deals hold you back. The truth? Sometimes, bigger clients are actually easier.

Deliver Intensive, Practical Training 

• Justin condensed over a decade’s worth of his sales knowledge into a proprietary, one-week, 40-hour training program for new reps. 
• This training ensures each team member is truly equipped—not just motivated—with everything needed to sell at a high level. It’s practical, measured, and outcome-focused.

Bonus Mindset Tip 

• Justin emphasized the importance of personal growth alongside tactical skills. 
• Your self-image must outpace the rejection that comes with aggressive activity, or you’ll burn out before you break through.

“You can’t succeed in sales if you’re not constantly working on yourself.” Justin Balik.

Resources

Grab these books mentioned in the episode: 10x Is Easier Than 2x, Who Not How, and The Science of Scaling by Dan Sullivan & Dr. Benjamin Hardy. Follow Justin on Instagram. 

If you like more guidance with improving your sales skills, join my Sales Mastermind Class. Thinking about starting a podcast yourself? Learn more about Blue Mango Studios. 

Sponsorship Offers

1. This episode is brought to you in part by Hubspot.

With HubSpot sales hubs, your data tools and teams join a single platform to close deals and turn prospects into pipelines. Try it for yourself at hubspot.com/sales.

2. This episode is brought to you in part by LinkedIn.

Are you tired of prospective clients not responding to your emails? Sign up for a free 60-day trial of LinkedIn Sales Navigator at linkedin.com/tse.

3. This episode is brought to you in part by the TSE Sales Foundation.

Improve your connection on LinkedIn and land three or five appointments with our LinkedIn prospecting course. Go to the salesevangelist.com/linkedin.

Credits

As one of our podcast listeners, we value your opinion and always want to improve the quality of our show. Complete our two-minute survey here: thesalesevangelist.com/survey. We’d love for you to join us for our next episodes by tuning in on Apple Podcast, Google Podcast, Stitcher, or Spotify. Audio provided by Free SFX, Soundstripe, and Bensound. Other songs used in the episodes are as follows: The Organ Grinder written by Bradley Jay Hill, performed by Bright Seed, and Produced by Brightseed and Hill.

There’s a theory that if a seller focuses on a buyer’s inner feelings, then they’ll be more effective in closing a deal. This will require you to put your therapist cap on to tap into the customer’s emotions.

My guests, Jack Frimson and Zac Thompson, sales professionals and co-authors of Selling Is Therapy, share their techniques from their latest book. Listen to learn more about how you can start selling like a therapist to close more deals.

Meet Jack Frimson & Zac Thompson

• Jack and Zac are seasoned sales professionals and co-founders of an agency specializing in helping clients book more high-quality appointments. 
• Together, they have worked with hundreds of clients, developing practical, actionable strategies to make sales conversations more empathetic, effective, and rewarding for everyone involved. 

 Why the Therapist Approach?

• Salespeople often default to outdated, aggressive tactics that leave both parties feeling slimy.
• Drawing inspiration from therapy, Jack and Zac discovered that the best sellers act less like “persuaders” and more like thoughtful guides, catalyzing customer self-discovery.

Permission-Based Questions & “Softening the Blow”

• Simply asking before posing tough or blunt questions disarms prospects, making conversations feel safer and more genuine.
• This approach helps navigate tough topics, such as budget or decision-making authority, without sounding confrontational.

Levels of Listening

• Great salespeople distinguish themselves by noticing what isn’t said—body language, hesitations, or changes in tone.
• Calling out the “elephant in the room” (with empathy) opens space for honesty and trust.

The “Test Close”

• Instead of forcing meetings or pushing agendas, the “test close” invites prospects to design the most valuable meeting for themselves (“What would make a call next week worthwhile for you?”).
• This boosts the chances of attended and effective appointments—and prospects are more invested because they helped build the agenda.

The IKEA Curve

• When prospects participate in creating the solution (“If you could design your perfect platform/campaign/vendor, what would it look like?”), They feel a greater sense of ownership and buy-in.
• This technique is especially effective in competitive sales situations and discovery calls.

Low-Stakes Practice & Continuous Experimentation

• Jack and Zac encourage sellers to experiment with these tactics in everyday settings, like at a coffee shop, to build confidence before using them in sales calls.

Letting Go of Attachment

• The healthiest sales approach is one where you’re unattached to the outcome—focused instead on helping, not convincing.
• If you’re struggling with this, evaluate your alignment with the product, company, and your belief in the impact you deliver.

"Softening the blow is when we seek permission before we ask one of those big, big questions." - Jack Frimson.

"You always want to be calling out the elephant in the room. Another chapter of the book talks about the levels of listening.  It shares how salespeople tend to miss the things that aren't being said." - Zac Thompson. 

Resources

Grab a copy of their book on Amazon.

Follow and reach out to Jack and Zac on LinkedIn. If you like more guidance with improving your sales skills, join my Sales Mastermind Class. Thinking about starting a podcast yourself? Learn more about Blue Mango Studios. 

Sponsorship Offers

1. This episode is brought to you in part by Hubspot.

With HubSpot sales hubs, your data tools and teams join a single platform to close deals and turn prospects into pipelines. Try it for yourself at hubspot.com/sales.

2.  This episode is brought to you in part by LinkedIn.

Are you tired of prospective clients not responding to your emails? Sign up for a free 60-day trial of LinkedIn Sales Navigator at linkedin.com/tse.

3.  This episode is brought to you in part by the TSE Sales Foundation.

Improve your connection on LinkedIn and land three or five appointments with our LinkedIn prospecting course. Go to the salesevangelist.com/linkedin.

Credits

As one of our podcast listeners, we value your opinion and always want to improve the quality of our show. Complete our two-minute survey here: thesalesevangelist.com/survey. We’d love for you to join us for our next episodes by tuning in on Apple Podcast, Google Podcast, Stitcher, or Spotify. Audio provided by Free SFX, Soundstripe, and Bensound. Other songs used in the episodes are as follows: The Organ Grinder written by Bradley Jay Hill, performed by Bright Seed, and Produced by Brightseed and Hill.

You’re posting content on LinkedIn but is it actually bringing in sales leads? In this rerun episode, I sit down with Tom Abbott, LinkedIn strategist and international sales expert, to talk about how you can create content that doesn’t just get likes but fills your pipeline. If you’re tired of playing the social media game with no ROI, this episode is your blueprint.

Meet Tom Abbott

Tom is the founder of SOCO Sales Training and one of the top voices when it comes to using LinkedIn for B2B sales. He’s trained thousands of sales professionals around the world, and in this conversation, he pulls back the curtain on what’s working on LinkedIn right now. Whether you're brand new to the platform or looking to sharpen your edge, Tom delivers actionable insights that can lead directly to revenue.

Turn LinkedIn Into a Lead Machine

• Tom explains why most sellers get LinkedIn wrong and what to do instead. It’s not about being overly polished or promotional. It’s about being intentional, authentic, and consistent.

Speak to your audience’s pain points

• Don’t just talk about your product. Talk about the problems your prospects are actively trying to solve.

Use a simple post structure

• Tom breaks down the 3-part framework: hook, value, and CTA. Get attention, deliver insight, and give them something to do next.

Stay visible without being spammy

• Consistency beats perfection. Tom shares how often to post, what formats are working best, and how to balance content types.

Connect, don’t just broadcast

• The magic happens in the comments and DMs. If you’re not engaging with your audience, you’re missing the point.

"LinkedIn is a sales tool not just a résumé. Use it that way, and it will change your business." – Tom Abbott

Resources

Follow Tom Abbott on LinkedIn to see examples of his post structure in action. Check out SOCO Sales Training if you want to take your team’s LinkedIn strategy to the next level. Need help building your sales content strategy? Join my Sales Mastermind Class. Visit thesalesevangelist.com for templates, tools, and more episodes to sharpen your selling skills

Sponsorship Offers

1. This episode is brought to you in part by Hubspot.

With HubSpot sales hubs, your data tools and teams join a single platform to close deals and turn prospects into pipelines. Try it for yourself at hubspot.com/sales.

2.  This episode is brought to you in part by LinkedIn.

Are you tired of prospective clients not responding to your emails? Sign up for a free 60-day trial of LinkedIn Sales Navigator at linkedin.com/tse.

3.  This episode is brought to you in part by the TSE Sales Foundation.

Improve your connection on LinkedIn and land three or five appointments with our LinkedIn prospecting course. Go to the salesevangelist.com/linkedin.

Credits

As one of our podcast listeners, we value your opinion and always want to improve the quality of our show. Complete our two-minute survey here: thesalesevangelist.com/survey. We’d love for you to join us for our next episodes by tuning in on Apple Podcast, Google Podcast, Stitcher, or Spotify. Audio provided by Free SFX, Soundstripe, and Bensound. Other songs used in the episodes are as follows: The Organ Grinder written by Bradley Jay Hill, performed by Bright Seed, and Produced by Brightseed and Hill.