The Steep Stuff Podcast

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What happens when a mountain athlete chooses meaning over metrics? We sit down with ski mountaineer and mountain runner Michael Wirth for a rare, candid conversation about privacy, purpose, and why FKTs feel more honest than podiums. Michael traces his path from the Roaring Fork Valley to a brief stint in consulting, then into a life shaped by long tours, sketchy weather windows, and the strange pressure of being recognized for what you do in quiet places.

We dive into the gritty details of his November push on the Tonto Traverse—training alongside David, the tendon flare-up that arrived five days out, the decision to keep moving until it didn’t make sense, and the bittersweet satisfaction of seeing a partner set the record. Michael explains why FKTs pull him more than racing: logistics and judgment matter, terrain asks real questions, and the reward lives in moving across a landscape with speed and care. He also opens up about social media’s tradeoffs—how YouTube can tell richer stories than Instagram, why follower counts too often shape contracts, and how protecting your relationship with the mountains sometimes means posting less.

From scouting the North Cascades High Route and a scary black bear encounter to training blocks built on threshold, VO2 efforts, and the occasional treadmill sufferfest, Michael’s outlook is equal parts frank and thoughtful. He’s eyeing future ski objectives, possibly a renewed push on the High Route with friends, and a career path that might include climate tech or even farming—all while keeping the flame for big, meaningful days outside. If you care about the soul of mountain sport, the pull of place, and the balance between craft and commerce, this one hits home.

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The view from a razorback ridge can change your life—and your training. We invited Robin Vieira Brower, one of the few American women racing the Skyrunner World Series, to unpack how she built a season across Austria and Ireland, what “sea to sky” truly demands, and why skyrunning needs a bigger footprint in the U.S. Robin shares a refreshingly candid path from college soccer to technical mountain running, the exact workouts that paid off on steep grades, and the mindset shift required when weather cancels races the day before the start.

We dig into the nuts and bolts—heart rate based training, base-building through winter, and the intervals that translate directly to efficient climbing and controlled descending. Robin also opens up about running a creative studio while racing internationally, turning storytelling into a strength instead of a distraction. We compare skyrunning with Golden Trail and UTMB, talk through ISF standards that protect the sport’s identity, and spotlight the best U.S. gateways for “real sky” skills: Cirque Series venues, The Rut, Alyeska, and the Wasatch. Expect practical insights on gear, travel, and course selection, plus honest talk about representation and how to support more women on technical terrain.

If you’ve wondered how to break into skyrunning—or just want to understand why switchbacks are sometimes optional in Europe—this conversation delivers a clear map and plenty of motivation. Tap play, then tell us which course you’d race first. If you’re enjoying the show, follow Robin at @mindfullyrobin, subscribe, and leave a quick review to help more mountain athletes find us.

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A Tahoe childhood can shape an athlete for life—and Noah McMahan proves it. At 19, he’s a Gonzaga steeplechaser who keeps his easy runs on dirt, wins Broken Arrow 11K off a Hayward Field PR, and carries hard-earned lessons from the World Mountain Running Championships in Spain. We talk about the quiet confidence it takes to recover from injuries, the patience to build fitness through a long collegiate season, and the racecraft to navigate tight European singletrack when the start line explodes.

We dig into what it means to balance D1 expectations with trail ambitions: coach buy-in, smart training blocks, and the reality of fitting a “fourth season” into a college calendar. Noah opens up about recruitment from a small Nevada school, why team culture sold him on Gonzaga, and how a kinesiology major helps him stay healthy. He breaks down the Worlds course—road surge, singletrack congestion, switchback duels—and the two changes he’d make next time: more hill-specific work and earlier positioning to avoid bottlenecks.

Gear talk includes Nike Ultrafly on race day, a rotation that’s open to Saucony for daily miles, and curiosity about adding poles for steeper 23K goals. We share inspiration from Max King, Kilian Jornet, Jim Walmsley, Ruth Croft, and the next wave of hybrid athletes bridging track, road, and mountain disciplines. If you’re a young runner considering a future in trail running—or a fan who loves the sport’s evolving pathways—you’ll hear a clear blueprint for turning college structure into a sustainable pro trajectory.

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What happens when a Nordic engine meets Wasatch steeps and a taste for big objectives? We sit down with pro skier and trail runner Mali Noyes to trace the throughline from Sun Valley ski kid to freeride competitor to ultra podium threat, and the conversation is packed with sharp takeaways you can use right away.

Mali unpacks the modern mountain athlete’s toolkit: how backcountry ski touring builds unmatched muscular endurance, why Speedgoat rewards poles and patience at altitude, and how pacing transforms “survival” into a strong finish. We go inside freeride fundamentals—venue scouting, judging criteria, and the fast-and-fluid style that actually scores—then zoom out to the career reality where athletes must be storytellers, producers, and community builders. Mali shares how she approaches YouTube with authenticity over polish, using simple tools to bring people into the raw, decision-heavy world of snow, lines, and risk.

We dig into UTMB ambitions, comparing CCC’s runnable rhythm with the power-hike nature of Speedgoat, and why the Wasatch is a near-perfect training ground for European profiles. Mali is candid about nerve pain and the grind of messy injuries, emphasizing critical PT, hip and core rebuilding, and data that supports intuition—heart rate, lactate, HRV, and truly easy recovery days. The capstone is The Shooting Gallery: skiing all 93 steep Wasatch lines in 47 days. It’s a masterclass in logistics, avalanche judgment, partner management, and mental endurance, stacking over 300,000 feet of vert while staying sharp enough to make clean choices day after day.

If you care about mountain performance, women’s representation in snowsports, or the craft of turning adventures into stories that matter, this one will stick with you. Subscribe, share this episode with a training partner, and leave a quick review to help more mountain athletes find the show.

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The road from an Okinawan family dojo to the rocky spine of the Northeast isn’t as long as it looks. Meet trail runner and former Muay Thai athlete Niko Teller, a blue-collar UPS driver who turns daily mileage, discipline, and gritty terrain into real speed. We dig into how martial arts forged his mindset, why hips are the hidden engine for climbing and descending, and how he built technical downhill confidence on the Appalachian Trail, in the Catskills, and across the White Mountains.

We break down the Northeast short-trail scene—from Chocorua to the Baldface Scramble—and why these 20 to 30K courses deliver as much vert and skill demand as some ultras. Nico explains how he trains when the “mountains” are 400 feet high, stacking hill repeats, AT long runs, and gravel bike cross-training to stay durable. Then we go deep on his JFK 50 game plan: smooth execution on the AT, a mid-race shoe swap into road foam, and a 6:30–6:40 towpath pace target backed by a simple fueling strategy of 90 grams of carbs per hour with Neversecond gels and mostly water in cool temps.

We also unpack the hard lessons from Run Rabbit Run 100 in Steamboat—cold, hail, and a cranky Achilles—and how finishing on a tough day built more confidence than any PR. Niko shares why jiu-jitsu keeps him humble, how coaching with Fastquatch helps working athletes find balance, and what’s next: Black Canyon 100K speed, a Cocodona waitlist gamble, and winter goals on the track with a sharper mile and 5K.

If you love Northeast trail running, JFK 50 strategy, technical downhill tips, or blue-collar training that actually fits a busy life, this conversation will feel like a map you can use tomorrow. Subscribe, drop a review, and share with a friend who’s eyeing a fast towpath split or their first White Mountain scramble.

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A road racer with big engine and bigger grit, Makena Morley decided to test the mountains—and then turned a curious experiment into a statement season. We go all the way back to Maui and Montana, through a high-pressure collegiate career at Colorado, and into the realities of turning pro during Covid. Then the pivot: why ASICS’ support opened the door to trails, how Bozeman and Montana State became her training backbone, and what it took to blend threshold speed with the chaos of technical terrain.

Makena breaks down the moment Kodiak nearly unraveled—a missed turn, minutes lost, and a mental reset from chasing time to hunting the win. She explains how trail pacing lives in effort, not pace; how VKs mimic the misery of a 5K at altitude; and why nutrition and hydration need to be tighter once you’re racing beyond marathon duration. We talk SIS gels, Skratch Superfuel, cramp control, and keeping heart rate near low threshold to ride the up-down rhythm without detonating. She also shares self-coaching insights: writing four-month blocks, moving workouts when the body says no, and using heart rate as a guardrail rather than a governor.

Looking forward, we map a smart, exciting calendar: half marathons to sharpen, runnable 50Ks like Canyons to leverage road speed, and a technical progression toward OCC in Chamonix. Golden Trail and Cirque Series sit on the radar as skill-building playgrounds, tempered by timing and travel. The theme running through it all is joy—how switching surfaces revived hunger, built durability, and made big goals feel possible again.

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The plan was simple: go test the 100K waters. The reality was a masterclass in pacing, hydration, and what happens when marathon instincts meet an eight-hour mountain day. Chad Hall brings candor and clarity to his Kodiak debrief—why he went out hard, where the wheels came loose around Snow Summit, and how he’ll rebuild for another shot. From there, we widen the lens: short trail versus ultras, why 50K deserves more respect in the U.S., and how cycling’s strength engine can transform uphill running without sacrificing leg speed on descents.

We trade notes on altitude strategy for Pikes Peak, the balance between sea-level power and high-elevation adaptation, and practical ways to integrate strength—heavy lifts, bike blocks, or ski mountaineering—when schemo isn’t an option. Chad traces his arc from triathlon to domestic elite cycling to trails, and explains how coaching, long mountain days, and flat-speed workouts all fit inside a program designed to resist fatigue and stay smooth on technical terrain.

Then we go deeper. We push on the professionalization of trail running, UTMB-style event culture, and the line between authentic partnership and hollow consumerism. Chad is honest about sponsorship: only promote what you’d buy, center the mountains, and protect the community’s soul. We also challenge the hype cycles of social media and the attention economy, where presentation can outrun performance and algorithms shrink our view of the world. Finally, we wrestle with AI and work—what jobs mean, where meaning comes from, and how a conscious buyer base can reshape the outdoor industry for the better.

If you enjoy conversations that braid training insights with bigger questions about culture and purpose, this one will stick. Follow Chad on Instagram at @chadoflife, hit play, and then tell us: are you team short trail, team ultra, or somewhere in between? Subscribe, share with a friend, and leave a review to help more curious runners find the show.

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A broken back, a fractured knee, and nearly a year off running—then podiums at Pikes Peak Ascent, Kodiak, and Moab. That’s the arc Alicia Vargo takes us through, sharing how a brutal dog attack in 2024 unraveled her season and how skate skiing, patience, and stubborn belief stitched it back together. We start with her fresh Moab Trail Half podium and the course’s split personality—slickrock step-ups, sandy slogs, and off-road pavement—before moving into the training mindset that keeps her sharp late in the year.

From there, we head home to Breckenridge. Alicia talks altitude as the quiet performance lever, the surprising strength of the local community, and why winter skimo and skate skiing are the perfect mix to preserve fitness without the pounding. Then we go deep on her recovery: delayed diagnoses, crutches, months of uncertainty, and the tentative first races at Broken Arrow that proved her body could hold. She opens up about Sierre-Zinal’s balcony trail, heat shock, and the crowded chaos of European starts where elbows fly and gels get trampled.

We zoom out to the sport’s big questions. Should women have separate starts or days? Alicia weighs the trade-offs—clear competition and spotlight versus thin fields and lost atmosphere. She revisits the early Nike Trail years, shifting to Hoka, and why the sport once nudged athletes toward ultras due to a lack of short trail opportunities. Now, with Golden Trail, Broken Arrow, and the Rut, short trail finally looks like the welcoming on-ramp for D1 talent and the most TV-ready version of mountain running.

We also talk storytelling. What Coca-Dona got right with long-form livestreams. Why commentators who race—like Dani Moreno—can translate chaos into context. And why Alicia’s skeptical about the Olympics reshaping trail into a TV-friendly shadow of itself, much like skimo’s shift. Through it all, her message is grounded and energizing: protect the mountain identity, invest in women’s race formats, tell better stories, and give athletes the room to come back strong.

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The sport we love is growing up, and that’s a good thing—if we build it right. I’m joined by athlete and agent Nick Cornell of Trailhead Athlete Management to dig into what “professional” actually looks like in trail running: livable contracts, smarter bonuses, real anti-doping, and a path that lets athletes focus on performance without losing the grassroots soul that makes this community special.

Nick shares how he went from thru-hiking the Triple Crown to winning Montana 50Ks and managing athletes who train 20 hours a week while juggling logistics, content, deliverables, and travel. We unpack what brands want beyond results—genuine people with presence—and why short trail deserves more investment alongside ultras. We also talk hard numbers: why most pros still sit in the low five figures, how a league minimum could change that, and where healthcare and PT stipends fit in. If you’ve wondered whether rumors of huge salaries are real, or how to negotiate your first deal, Nick gives grounded, practical insight.

We go deep on legitimacy and the World Mountain and Trail Championships—federations offering team camps and big bonuses, the realities of kit rules, and why national team results should be bonused just like track. From out-of-competition testing to non-endemic sponsors—cars, banks, tourism boards, food brands—we explore the funding models that could unlock full-time careers without sidelining local races. The takeaway is hopeful: keep the watermelon at aid stations and the big stages on the calendar. With smarter structure, everyone wins.

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A brand doesn’t become real the day the website goes live—it becomes real the day someone beats it up on a mountain and still reaches for it the next morning. That’s the heart of our conversation with Dust founder Zach Colby, who walked away from politics to build a running brand rooted in the Mountain West: trails, dirt, big days, and gear that doesn’t need babysitting.

We trace the idea back to Boulder, where Zach saw a clear gap. The urban-run-club look had its champions, but the West’s mix of gravel, alpine, and singletrack culture felt underserved. Dust answers with simple, durable pieces that carry a Western soul—led by the mechanic shirt, a breathable button-down designed to race, ride, and recover. Zach breaks down the less glamorous side too: hunting for the right factory, negotiating MOQs, iterating fabric weights across time zones, and learning that a great sample is earned, not ordered.

From there, we get into launch mechanics and marketing without the fluff. Boxes stacked in an apartment, a Shopify backend, word-of-mouth over ads, and photography that actually reflects how people move outside. We talk about the Dust Bus—a retired sheriff’s van now turned rolling pop-up—and why in-person events, beer miles, and race weekends matter more than impressions. Zach also shares what’s next: a women’s line with a dedicated designer, tech-forward shorts and tights, and an interest in a lightweight, no-nonsense running belt that disappears on the run.

If you care about trail running, niche outdoor brands, or the craft behind gear that holds up mile after mile, this one will hit. Tap play, then tell us what piece you wish more brands would build. And if you’re vibing with the show, subscribe, share with a trail friend, and leave a quick review—it helps more runners find us.

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