The Steep Stuff Podcast

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Ever wonder what goes through an elite athlete's mind when injury threatens to derail everything they've trained for? In this captivating conversation with mountain running legend Allie Mack, we discover how the most challenging moments often lead to unexpected triumphs.

Fresh off qualifying for her eighth USA Mountain Running Team at the Sunapee Scramble, Allie reveals she almost didn't make it to the starting line. Battling hip pain that left her in tears the night before, she made a last-minute decision to race - then proceeded to lead almost wire-to-wire on a brutally technical course featuring thigh-high water crossings, slick mud, and massive rocks.

What's remarkable isn't just the physical performance but the mental approach that made it possible. Rather than pressuring herself, Allie reframed the race as "just a nine-mile run" - her favorite distance on any given day. This shift in perspective allowed her to find joy in the moment and perform with rare freedom.

At 34, Allie dismisses any notion that she's past her prime. "I think I'm as fast as I was in 2014," she reflects, "but now with added knowledge and strength." Drawing inspiration from veterans like Joe Gray and Max King, she's convinced her best performances may still lie ahead as she targets the vertical team qualification at Broken Arrow.

The conversation turns to what might be America's strongest-ever women's mountain running squad, with Allie eager to build deeper team bonds before Worlds. Her insights on balancing individual competition with national pride offer a fascinating glimpse into elite sports psychology.

Ready to be inspired by an athlete who continues to redefine what's possible? Join us for this heartfelt, candid conversation about perseverance, perspective, and finding joy in the journey.

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Crossing the finish line as U.S. Mountain Running Champion wasn't even on Anna Gibson's radar a week before the race. Fresh off a grueling marathon at Zagama on the other side of the world, with jet lag in her system and soreness in her quads, victory seemed improbable. Yet sometimes the greatest achievements come when pressure evaporates.

"If you had told me this was going to be the outcome the week before Sunapee, I would have probably laughed at you," Anna reveals with genuine surprise still in her voice. What unfolds in our conversation is a masterclass in mental fortitude and race strategy. Gibson walks us through her journey from feeling "mentally foggy" during the first lap to making the decisive move that earned her the championship title, passing established stars Allie McLaughlin and Lauren Gregory with a surge that neither could match.

What makes Anna's approach truly refreshing is her commitment to versatility. While many elite runners focus solely on mileage, Gibson embraces cross-training on her gravel bike and approaches racing with an adventurous spirit. "You don't have to specialize a hundred percent in running to be good at running," she emphasizes, offering a philosophy that challenges conventional wisdom. This balanced approach extends beyond physical training—her mental strategy of removing unnecessary pressure by doing Zagama first created the freedom that allowed her championship performance to emerge naturally.

Looking ahead to Broken Arrow and the prospect of making both U.S. teams for the World Championships, Anna shares how her victory has transformed her mindset. With one goal already accomplished, she can approach the next challenge with joy rather than pressure. Whether you're fascinated by elite race strategy, seeking training insights, or simply love stories of unexpected triumph, this conversation delivers inspiration that extends far beyond the trail. Listen and discover how sometimes our greatest performances emerge when we stop fighting pressure and simply let ourselves flow.

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Mountain running has a new force to reckon with. Fresh off his silver medal performance at the 2025 USATF Mountain Running Championships, Mason Copey joins James Lauriello to break down the race that earned him a coveted spot on Team USA for the upcoming World Championships.

What makes this conversation particularly fascinating is the clear evolution of an athlete coming into his own. Mason candidly shares how just two years ago on the same course, he "could not stay on my feet" during descents, losing multiple positions every time the trail pointed downhill. Through dedicated technical training and strategic racing, he's transformed this weakness into a strength that now puts fear into his competitors.

The championship race itself unfolded on a course rendered nearly unrecognizable by torrential rain. "You would take steps and your foot would disappear underneath mud," Mason explains, painting a vivid picture of the chaotic conditions that created a truly unpredictable battle. His minute-by-minute breakdown of the final moments—complete with tactical decisions, cramping calves, and the roar of spectators—puts you right in the middle of the action.

Beyond the race itself, this conversation delves into training methodology that worked, including the surprising impact of cycling and marathon preparation on mountain running performance. Mason also looks ahead to Team USA's prospects at Worlds, offering genuine excitement about the squad's potential to compete for medals against the best mountain runners on the planet.

Whether you're a competitive trail runner looking for training insights or simply enjoy compelling stories of athletic achievement against challenging conditions, this episode delivers a masterclass in what it takes to perform at the highest level of mountain running. Don't miss Mason's journey from falling on every descent to standing on the national championship podium.

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Ever wonder what happens when elite Nordic skiers turn their attention to mountain running? The answer might surprise you.

David Norris, fresh off his victory as the 2025 US Mountain Running Champion at the Son of Peace Scramble, joins us to break down his remarkable journey from Alaska's cross-country ski trails to the podium of one of America's most prestigious mountain races. 

Growing up in Fairbanks and now based in Alaska, Norris reveals the specific training adjustments that transformed him from a powerful climber with limited running economy into a complete mountain athlete. His collaboration with coach David Roche represents a fascinating case study in how targeted interventions—weekly track workouts, consistent strides, and year-round running—can rapidly elevate performance even for established athletes.

The conversation takes us through the championship race itself, where Norris demonstrates the tactical intelligence that complements his physical prowess. Despite losing a shoe in mud during the first lap, he patiently moved through the field, particularly dominating the technical sections that played to his considerable strengths. His description of the final charge down the mountain, "sprinting the whole way" to hold off a stacked field, puts listeners right in the middle of the action.

Norris also candidly discusses his upcoming challenges, including the nutrition issues that have plagued his longer efforts and his strategy for making both the 50K and mountain running world teams. Most fascinating is his insight into why Nordic skiers consistently excel in mountain running—their enormous aerobic engines, technical proficiency, and strength create a perfect foundation for trail dominance.

Ready to gain insights from one of mountain running's brightest stars? Listen now and discover how cross-training, targeted workouts, and patience can transform your own running journey.

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Lauren Gregory takes us deep into her journey at the 2025 US Mountain Running Championship at Sunapee Scramble, where she secured second place and earned a coveted spot on Team USA. Just a week removed from this performance, Lauren shares the intimate details of a race that demanded everything from her physically and mentally.

The conversation reveals the fascinating chess match that unfolded over 80 intense minutes of mountain racing. Lauren explains how she strategically played to her strengths on technical descents while navigating the relentless pressure from competitors Allie McLaughlin and Anna Dalton. Each athlete brought distinct capabilities to the course, creating a constantly shifting battle that Lauren describes as both exhausting and exhilarating: "I think probably all three of us at one point thought we were for sure going to win."

This championship holds special significance for Lauren as her first trail race following an injury and represents a carefully planned step toward her ultimate season goals. Unlike her previous national team qualification during college years, this achievement marks a deliberate career milestone. "This time it's like this is planned out. This is strategic," Lauren explains, highlighting how making Team USA now carries deeper meaning as she builds toward the World Championships as an "A race."

The conversation also touches on recovery challenges, the unique physical demands of mountain racing, and the extraordinary strength of the women's team representing the United States internationally. For anyone fascinated by elite trail running, race strategy, or the mental aspects of competition at the highest level, this episode offers rare insights from an athlete performing at the pinnacle of the sport.

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The path to international mountain running stardom isn't paved – it's steep, muddy, technical, and tests athletes to their absolute limits. Taylor Stack knows this firsthand after his breakthrough performance at the 2025 US Mountain Running Championship Son of Peace Scramble, where he secured third place and a coveted spot on Team USA.

What makes Stack's performance remarkable isn't just the result – it's how tantalizingly close he came to winning it all. Leading the race during critical sections and finishing just 10 seconds behind the winner, Stack executed a nearly perfect tactical race. Unlike previous competitions where he'd gone out too aggressively, he deliberately conserved energy during the first lap to unleash his potential on the second brutal climb. This strategic patience paid dividends as he moved through the field and eventually took the lead.

The race conditions presented their own character-testing challenges. Two inches of rain had fallen the day before, transforming sections of the course into treacherous, slippery terrain. Adding another layer of difficulty, Stack experienced mysterious vision problems during the final technical descent – a moment that may have cost him the victory but showcased his mental fortitude as he maintained composure to secure his Team USA position. The elite men's field maintained a blistering pace throughout, with gradient-adjusted miles around four minutes, demonstrating the world-class caliber of American mountain running.

Stack's performance signals his arrival among America's mountain running elite and sets him up for an exciting season ahead. With his primary goal accomplished, he's now contemplating how to approach upcoming races like Broken Arrow Skyrace, weighing the benefits of competing in multiple events versus focusing on specific distances. Whatever path he chooses, his trajectory in the sport looks incredibly promising as he prepares to represent the United States at the World Championships in the Pyrenees this September.

Ready to elevate your own mountain running experience? Our podcast sponsor Ultimate Direction just released their new RaceVest 6 liter and UltraVest 12 liter in stunning new colorways. Grab yours at ultimatedirection.com using code "steep stuff pod" for 25% off!

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Andie Cornish takes us on a breathtaking journey from the iconic peaks of Jackson Hole to the competitive world of mountain running. Growing up just minutes from world-class terrain shaped Andie into the dual-sport athlete she is today—excelling both as a ski mountaineer tackling serious Teton objectives and as an elite trail runner with impressive results at races like Broken Arrow.

During our conversation, Andie reveals how Nordic skiing methodology revolutionized her approach to training. Rather than following traditional running dogma, she embraces a more holistic perspective measuring effort in hours and vertical gain instead of just miles. This cross-disciplinary approach incorporating substantial mountain biking and ski mountaineering has kept her injury-free and mentally fresh while developing unique strengths for mountain challenges. "I think it's dumb when people say cross-training," Andie explains. "It's just training—everything goes together and time on feet is time on feet."

What truly distinguishes Andie's story is her remarkable resilience facing a recent diagnosis of Median Arcuate Ligament Syndrome (MALS)—a rare condition affecting blood flow during downhill running. Rather than allowing this setback to derail her athletic pursuits, she's brilliantly pivoted to focus exclusively on uphill races like the Broken Arrow VK and Pikes Peak Ascent. This adaptation has unexpectedly elevated her climbing performance to new heights: "I'm in the best uphill shape I've ever been in, breaking my records beyond anything." Andie's journey reminds us that sometimes our greatest challenges lead to discovering our true strengths.

Whether you're fascinated by the lifestyle of mountain towns, curious about training across multiple disciplines, or seeking inspiration for overcoming obstacles in your own athletic journey, this conversation offers valuable insights from someone who embodies the authentic spirit of mountain sports. Follow Andie's upcoming season as she tackles iconic vertical challenges in North America and Switzerland!

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Jackson Cole, one of the most compelling figures in skyrunning, returns to the Steep Stuff Podcast for a raw, insightful conversation about his mountain running journey. Currently based in Missoula, Montana, Jackson opens up about training alongside elite ultrarunners Adam Peterman and Jeff McGavro – a dynamic that pushes his fitness while maintaining the pure essence of mountain running he values so deeply.

The conversation takes us through Jackson's recent foray into the ultra world at Canyons 100K, where he led portions of the race before ultimately dropping due to Achilles issues. With refreshing candor, he reflects on the stark differences between skyrunning and ultrarunning: "It really does solidify the idea that they're two different sports." His experience highlights how specialized the mountain athlete must become to excel in either discipline.

Meet the Minotaur in Canada emerges as a focal point for Jackson's 2024 season, marking his fourth attempt at a race he once won and clearly loves. His passion for proper mountain running shines through as he describes the Canadian mountain running community as "kind and hardcore at the same time." Beyond racing, Jackson shares details of his ambitious plan to attempt the North Cascades High Route – a multi-day, technical journey involving glacial travel and scrambling that represents the intersection of mountaineering and mountain running.

Perhaps most compelling is Jackson's thoughtful perspective on the controversial Grand Teton FKT situation that rocked the trail running world. As someone who had planned his own attempt, his insider knowledge offers valuable context about mountain ethics, public perception, and the future of mountain records. Throughout the episode, Jackson's blue-collar approach to mountain running – "I just want to drink beer and train" – reminds us why he remains one of the most relatable and respected athletes in the sport.

Ready to follow Jackson's mountain adventures? Find him on Instagram @jaycolee and follow along as he represents New Zealand at the Mountain Running World Championships and pursues his unique vision of what mountain running can be.

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The countdown to America's most competitive mountain running showdown has begun. In this episode, host James Lauriello sits down with race director Tom Hooper and co-host Nick Tusa to dissect the upcoming Sunapee Scramble – the USATF Mountain Classic Championships that will determine who represents Team USA at the World Mountain Running Championships.

This race promises unparalleled drama as athletes tackle a brutally demanding 9.2-mile course with over 3,200 feet of elevation gain. The uniquely designed two-loop format mimics the world championship course in Spain, featuring both service road climbs and highly technical descents through what locals call "the glades" – described as "really steep, really fast, really mushy." It's a course that demands complete athletes, or as Hooper puts it, "Swiss army knives" of mountain running.

The conversation dives deep into the compelling storylines shaping both fields. On the men's side, all eyes are on the brewing rivalry between defending champion Dan Kurtz and rising star Mason Copey, who recently outpaced Kurtz on Mount Sanitas. Meanwhile, the women's race presents a fascinating battle between established elites like Ali Ostrander, Rachel Tomajczyk, and Lauren Gregory against emerging talents such as Sophie Wright and Flannery Davis Love. With only four men's spots and three women's spots available for Worlds (plus Grayson Murphy's automatic qualification), several American stars will inevitably be left heartbroken.

What makes this selection race particularly significant is the extraordinary depth of talent – many competitors boast sub-14 minute 5K and sub-30 minute 10K credentials – paired with the technical challenges that will expose any weaknesses in descending ability. The trio offers detailed analysis and bold predictions about who will triumph on this unforgiving New Hampshire terrain.

Curious about which rising stars might have their career-defining breakthrough? Which established veterans might miss the world team? Or how the unusually wet, cold conditions might reshape the competitive landscape? Tune in for expert insights into what promises to be the most competitive selection race ever assembled on American soil.

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