How can the American church evolve to be more courageous, inclusive, and authentic in the decades to come? In the second installment of our Future Church Series, Mike Erre and Tim Stafford talk with longtime friends Kristen Howerton and Andy Lara about the current state of the church in America and what needs to change for it to thrive in the future.

Kristen—a clinical psychologist, writer, and founder of "Rage Against the Minivan"—shares how motherhood, mental health, and social justice shaped her faith journey and her critique of modern evangelicalism. She opens up about the limits of aesthetic Christianity, the damage caused by politicized faith, and why she started Orange County’s wildly popular Beer and Hymns gatherings as an inclusive alternative to traditional church.

Andy, co-founder of the Vox Podcast and an experienced podcast and media producer, reflects on the rapidly evolving landscape of church communities born from decentralized platforms like podcasting, and how church models need to abandon image obsessions and redefine leadership, success, and storytelling to truly reflect the imago Dei.

Key Takeaways: • Political Entanglement and Church Decline – Kristen critiques the evangelical church’s alliance with political ideologies and how it’s alienated the very people Jesus calls us to serve. • Inclusive Church Experiences – Why affirming, justice-centered, and spiritually rich spaces are critical to the future of the church's witness and survival. • Beer and Hymns as Sacred Resistance – Kristen details how a bar sing-along became a sacred space and blueprint for what post-church community could look like. • Revisiting the Power of Podcasting – Andy reflects on how podcast-centered communities like Vox offer a model for spiritual belonging in a digital-first world. • Image-Obsessed Christianity – How performative church culture, celebrity pastors, and aesthetic branding distort the gospel and marginalize real people. • The Gift of Exile – Why stepping outside of the traditional church model may be the path back to Jesus’ true mission.

Guest Highlights: Kristen Howerton — Psychologist, writer, and podcast host of “Selfie.” Founder of "Rage Against the Minivan" and co-creator of Orange County’s Beer and Hymns. Andy Lara — Vox Podcast co-founder, media producer, disability advocate, and creative consultant behind impactful digital church communities and podcasts.

Resources Mentioned: • Selfie Podcast – selfiepodcast.com • Rage Against the Minivan – rageagainsttheminivan.com • Red Letter Christians – redletterchristians.org • Preachers in Sneakers – Instagram • “Beer and Hymns” National Chapters – [Google Search or local chapter pages]

Join the movement of questioning, rediscovering, and reforming the church. Subscribe, leave a review, and share this episode with someone curious about the future of faith.

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How the American church can face a rapidly changing culture by reclaiming its missionary identity, simplifying institutional models, and empowering the next generation of leaders. In this special edition kicking off a three-part mini-series for the 200th episode of the Voxology Podcast, Mike Erre and Tim Stafford revisit some of their favorite past guests to explore one timely question: What is the future of Christianity and the church in America?

This episode features thought-provoking conversations with pastor and author Rick McKinley and biblical scholar Bonnie Lewis, offering contrasting perspectives from Portland to the greater deconstructed margins.

Key Takeaways: • The Church as a Missionary Movement – Why American churches must stop existing for self-preservation and start embodying the mission of Jesus in a post-Christian culture. • Permission & Imagination – Gen X leaders must give way to innovative younger voices and support new forms of church that don’t rely on traditional models of buildings, salaries, or Sunday-centric programs. • Reclaiming Deep Ecclesiology – The church isn't a preaching event or a building—it's a Spirit-filled alternative community of justice, simplicity, and love in a hostile world. • Preparing for Harvest and Hostility – Why the future belongs to churches that can thrive under cultural resistance and economic challenges, including the potential loss of tax-exempt status. • Thriving on the Margins – What Bonnie Lewis sees as the emerging future: diverse, justice-oriented, healing communities that move beyond white evangelicalism and toward a multi-voiced church.

Guest Highlights: • Rick McKinley – Pastor of Imago Dei Church in Portland and author of "Faith for This Moment." Rick brings decades of pastoral insight and urges a drastic shift toward empowering bivocational leadership and simplifying church to spark real kingdom impact. • Bonnie Lewis – Bible translator and author who champions honest, inclusive conversations on faith and spirituality. Bonnie celebrates hopeful dialogue in a polarizing era and envisions the future church as more representative, just, and relationally safe.

Resources Mentioned: • Faith for This Moment by Rick McKinley • Imago Dei Church – https://www.imagodeicommunity.com • The Vulgar Bible by Bonnie Lewis – https://www.bonnielewis.com/thevulgarbible • Episode 200 Series – Stay tuned for upcoming episodes featuring Kristen Howerton, Andy Lara, and Skye Jethani

Have thoughts on the future of Christianity in America? We’d love to hear from you. Email your reflections to [email protected] or connect with us on social media.

Don’t miss what’s next—subscribe, leave a review, and follow Voxology to stay rooted in the ongoing conversation.

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Peeling back layers of modern Christianity’s most pressing questions, Mike Erre, Tim Stafford, and Bonnie journey into a spirited and vulnerable mailbag episode that challenges traditional assumptions around social justice, obedience, desire, and discipleship. Through listener questions and current events, the team engages in an honest—and often humorous—debate about what it really means to deny oneself, how cultural experience shapes theology, and why "just quoting a Bible verse" isn’t often sufficient in addressing global and personal stories of oppression or pain.

This episode particularly dives deep into the tension between desire and surrender, how systems of theology can unintentionally cause harm, and whether the church is meant to care solely for its own—or extend justice and mercy beyond its walls. Using voices from early Christian history to current church controversies, the Voxology crew explores messy, complicated—but vitally important—themes of love, privilege, repentance, justice, and formation.

Key Takeaways: • The Limitations of “Sufficient Scripture” – Why relying solely on scripture without lived experience can ignore systems of privilege and harm, especially in conversations about social justice. • Is Denying Ourselves Always Righteous? – Discussion around "death to self" and how it’s often misused to silence or suppress identity, particularly among the marginalized. • Desire, Identity & the LGBTQ+ Conversation – Exploring how not all desires are equal in cultural weight or consequence, especially for those whose desires are tied to aspects of identity that have been historically rejected by the church. • Justice Within and Beyond the Church – Why early Christians were radical for not just supporting their own poor, but also caring for their Roman neighbors—and what that means for the church today. • Weaponizing Obedience – How well-intentioned calls to faithfulness can often reinforce harmful systems, and the need to rethink the language we use around sin, sacrifice, and obedience in pastoral contexts.

Resources Mentioned: • Rodney Stark – The Rise of Christianity • 1 Peter 2:12 – “Live such good lives among the pagans…” • Julian the Apostate’s Letters – Historical evidence of Rome’s reaction to Christian charity • Dallas Willard's Teachings – Especially regarding “joyful non-compliance” • John Coe (Talbot School of Theology) – On sin management and relational spirituality

Join the conversation and help reshape Christian community for a more just and Christ-centered world. If you’ve ever wrestled with obedience, struggled with your desires, or questioned the church’s response to injustice—this one is for you.

Don’t forget to email your questions to [email protected] or join us in the conversation on Facebook or Instagram.

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Why does questioning your beliefs sometimes feel like a risk? What if the fear of being punished by God for struggling with doubt or shifting perspectives isn’t from God at all? Mike Erre reunites with preacher and Bible scholar Bonnie Lewis for a deep dive into the tensions we face when navigating grace, obedience, and identity in Jesus. Using stories from Scripture—like the woman with the alabaster jar and Zacchaeus—and their own vulnerable questions, they explore Jesus’s radically inclusive posture and how it challenges both conservative and progressive assumptions about sin, justice, and what it means to repent.

This conversation invites listeners into the beautiful but complicated reality that Jesus does more than simply include—he calls, renames, invites, and reorients. Together, they wrestle with questions of personal and communal repentance, whether God punishes us for doubt, and how Jesus's grace meets us before transformation but continually invites us into deeper maturity and freedom.

Key Takeaways: • Jesus’s Inclusivity Had a Purpose – His scandalous association with outcasts wasn’t just for relational comfort; it was a powerful, theological act toward renewing Israel’s vocation to embody God’s love and justice. • Repentance Is Not Sin Management – Jesus’s call to repentance isn’t about obeying a moral checklist but reorienting our lives around grace, belonging, and God’s deeper purposes for flourishing. • Grace Comes First, Always – Bonnie and Mike unpack how God blesses before we "get it right," yet still gently draws us towards a fuller experience of Shalom. • When Grace Feels Like Punishment – An honest discussion about internalized religious trauma, including Bonnie’s story of grief after loss and wrestling with old beliefs around God’s retribution. • The Danger of Mislabeling Repentance – Labeling people groups as needing to "repent" misplaces the call Jesus made—a communal restoration that points to healing, not exclusion.

Guest Highlight: Bonnie Lewis – A longtime friend of Voxology and advocate for fresh, thoughtful theology, Bonnie brings years of scriptural study, teaching, and real-life vulnerability to this conversation. She challenges cultural-and-church assumptions with grace, humor, and authenticity.

Resources Mentioned: • The Lost World of the Torah by John H. Walton – Link • Exclusion and Embrace by Miroslav Volf – Link • Dallas Willard and Grace-Filled Discipleship – Reflections on living into the “A” already given by God • Scripture References: Luke 7, Luke 19, Ephesians 4, Romans 12, The Gospels (broad skimming on Jesus’s inclusivity and calls to repentance)

Open-hearted, intellectually honest, and spiritually nourishing, this episode invites listeners to walk the tension between grace and transformation—and to stay curious about what Jesus is doing in the cracks between certainty and mystery.

We’d love to hear what resonated with you! Join the conversation by emailing us at [email protected] or interacting on Facebook and Instagram. Don’t forget to subscribe, leave a review, and share this episode with someone who needs a fresh take on Jesus’s grace.

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A raw and honest reflection for those who feel caught between theological tribes, yearning for a deeper, more authentic faith. Mike Erre and Tim Stafford launch a new conversational series responding to what it means to feel spiritually homeless in today's polarized Christian landscape. With candid vulnerability, they explore disillusionment with both progressive and conservative church cultures, and ask: Is it possible to center on Jesus without selling out to one side?

This isn't cleaned-up theology with neatly drawn boundaries—it's a space of wandering, questioning, and rebuilding. If you're exhausted by toxic church politics, doctrinal quarrels on social media, and weaponized theology, this episode offers a breath of fresh (and sometimes messy) air.

Key Takeaways: • Feeling Spiritually Homeless – How social media and church rhetoric are creating deep disillusionment for believers who don’t fully align with conservative or progressive categories. • Christianity Without a Tribe – Naming the middle space between polarized camps and asking what it looks like to pursue Jesus without a political or doctrinal allegiance. • Weaponized Theology – The hosts critique how theology is used more to divide and condemn than to heal and restore, particularly around issues like female leadership and LGBTQ+ inclusion. • Both/And Faith – Mike reflects on the tension of holding both conservative and progressive convictions about sin, grace, masculinity, sexuality, and the authority of the Bible. • Radical Inclusion and Subversive Exclusivity – Looking to the early Church for a model that embraced all people while challenging societal norms and oppressive empires.

Resources Mentioned: • Acts of the Apostles – Early Church as a model for inclusion and radical discipleship • Voxology Podcast Episode #61 – “Stages of Spiritual Maturity” (referenced as foundational to this conversation) • “Resident Aliens” by Hauerwas & Willimon – Reference for Christian community as an alternative to culture

Join the movement toward being a home for the spiritually homeless. This episode is the start of a powerful new arc centering on Jesus—his life, teachings, and what it means to follow him in our complex world.

Help shape the community by sending your thoughts, questions, and experiences to [email protected].

Subscribe, leave a review, and follow Voxology on your favorite podcast platform and social spaces. You can also watch us on VOXOLOGY TV, grab some merch at our Etsy store, or support us on Patreon.

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As always, we encourage and would love discussion as we pursue. Feel free to email in questions to [email protected], and to engage the conversation on Facebook and Instagram.

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How do we navigate a term so widely misunderstood it often creates barriers instead of bridges? Mike Erre and Tim Stafford tackle this multi-layered question with humor, honesty, and depth in a lively conversation about whether we should keep or discard the term “Christian”—and what’s truly at the center of the Jesus movement.

This episode opens with a heartfelt apology to a listener for accidentally spoiling a blockbuster movie (Endgame, anyone?), then dives headfirst into a candid discussion sparked by a listener letter questioning whether the cultural baggage of the word “Christian” makes it worth abandoning entirely.

Along the way, Mike and Tim explore the usefulness (or futility) of labels, the profound difference between identifying as “Christian” versus “follower of Jesus,” and why our language must reflect our mission when engaging others inside and outside the church. They also take on listener feedback about gatekeeping, biblical double standards, and how to face the complexity of Scripture without despairing.

Key Takeaways: • Defining What's Central – Why focusing on “Christianity” as a label often distracts from the centrality of Jesus and his movement. • The Baggage of the Word “Christian” – How culture, politics, and consumerism have distorted its meaning, and why that might be worth letting go. • Double Standards and Interpretive Humility – Reflecting on whether we place unequal weight on reinterpreting scripture in areas of sex and science. • Reading the Bible Without Overwhelm – Practical guidance for anyone feeling unqualified or confused about their ability to engage meaningful biblical study. • Love Over Labels – Why embodying love trumps right belief when our expression of faith shapes how others understand Jesus.

Resources Mentioned: • BibleProject – https://bibleproject.com • N.T. Wright’s "For Everyone" series – N.T. Wright Books • Craig Keener’s Bible Background Commentary – Zondervan Academic

Call to Action: Join the conversation and share your thoughts on what it means to follow Jesus today. Subscribe for more episodes, leave us a review on your favorite podcast platform, and follow Voxology Podcast on social media.

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As always, we encourage and would love discussion as we pursue. Feel free to email in questions to [email protected], and to engage the conversation on Facebook and Instagram.

We're on YouTube (if you're into that kinda thing): VOXOLOGY TV.

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Music in this episode by Timothy John Stafford

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Can you still call it Christianity if you don’t believe Jesus physically rose from the dead? This episode of the Exile Series tackles one of the most crucial and controversial questions facing the church today: what still counts as “Christian” when key beliefs are dismantled?

Mike and Tim unpack an explosive New York Times interview with Union Seminary President Serene Jones, who claims one can believe in resurrection without believing that Jesus physically rose. This kicks off a deep dive into gatekeeping, core doctrine, theological mystery, and where—if anywhere—we draw lines. They explore Paul’s declaration of “first importance” in 1 Corinthians 15, the implications of a metaphorical resurrection, and the struggle to balance love, inclusion, and truth without erasing the essence of Jesus’s identity and mission.

Whether you’re rebuilding your faith, deconstructing from harmful religious narratives, or curious about where theological boundaries should lie, this conversation offers honesty, nuance, and plenty of wrestling room.

Key Takeaways: • What If Jesus Didn’t Physically Rise? – The implications of denying the bodily resurrection while holding onto Christian identity. • Gatekeeping & Grace – When it’s necessary to define boundaries, what we’re protecting, and how we do it without creating elitism or exclusion. • A Centered-Set Faith – Why Mike and Tim believe in moving toward Jesus as the identifiable center rather than drawing rigid lines around secondary beliefs. • The Resurrection as the Defining Claim – How Paul’s first-century view in 1 Corinthians 15 re-centers the core of the gospel—and why it’s still relevant. • Belief, Language, and Labels – Why self-identifying as “Christian” may not mean what we think it does if we remove its historical and theological basis.

Resources Mentioned: • 1 Corinthians 15 – Paul’s statement on the gospel of first importance • Interview with Serene Jones – New York Times opinion by Nicholas Kristof • Set Theory & Centered-Set Church Model – Learn more about centered vs. bounded faith [episode link] • Voxology Facebook Group – Join the conversation and share your thoughts on gatekeeping and resurrection

Join us as we dive deep into reconstructing faith with honesty, clarity, and compassion. Got thoughts or pushback? We welcome your questions via email and encourage you to engage with us online.

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How can Christians seriously engage with science, sexuality, and the violence in the scriptures while remaining faithful to the authority of the Bible? In this insightful and honest conversation, Mike Erre is joined by Old Testament scholar Tremper Longman III to discuss the hermeneutical frameworks required to address some of Christianity’s most pressing—and often divisive—topics. Drawing from his new book, Confronting Old Testament Controversies, Tremper unpacks the complexities of evolution, interpretation, LGBTQ+ inclusion, biblical violence, and how the ancient text still speaks to our modern context. This episode is both an academic and pastoral invitation to wrestle openly and faithfully with the Bible’s hardest questions.

Key Takeaways: • Scripture and Hermeneutics Matter Deeply – Misusing or misunderstanding the Old Testament through poor hermeneutics has led to destructive interpretations, from colonialism to political idolatry. • Why the Old Testament Still Matters – Tremper explains why dismissing the Old Testament creates theological gaps and ends up distorting the portrait of God found in the New Testament. • Is the Bible Anti-Science? – A deep dive into how Genesis was never meant to teach science and why a theologically responsible reading of evolution can affirm God’s creative providence. • Violence in the Bible Isn't a Problem to Erase – Tremper critiques both conservative and progressive attempts to soften or explain away divine violence, and instead frames it as essential to God’s battle against evil. • Sexuality and the Limits of Interpretation – Why Tremper argues that reinterpreting biblical texts on same-sex relationships departs from historical consensus, and how love and truth must work together. • Living in the Tension of Phase Four – Tremper outlines his “five-phase model” of God's warrior motif, highlighting how the church today lives in a nonviolent, spiritual resistance aligned with Christ’s first coming while awaiting the final victory described in Revelation.

Guest Highlights: Tremper Longman III – Renowned Old Testament scholar, retired professor at Westmont College, and author of over 30 books. His latest work, Confronting Old Testament Controversies, challenges believers to tackle real issues with theological conviction, historical awareness, and spiritual humility.

Resources Mentioned: • Confronting Old Testament Controversies by Tremper Longman III – Amazon • The BioLogos Foundation – biologos.org • Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy – [Link] • “God Is a Warrior” by Tremper Longman III and Daniel G. Reid – [Link] • Greg Boyd's "The Crucifixion of the Warrior God" – [Link] • Tim Keller on Politics and the Church – [Link] • Miroslav Volf Quote from Free of Charge – [Link]

Ready to dig beneath the surface and question with courage? Subscribe to Voxology and join us as we reclaim the beauty and challenge of following Jesus in a complicated world.

As always, we encourage and welcome discussion as we pursue truth together. Email us your questions at [email protected], and join the conversation on Facebook and Instagram.

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As always, we encourage and would love discussion as we pursue. Feel free to email in questions to [email protected], and to engage the conversation on Facebook and Instagram.

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Music in this episode by Timothy John Stafford

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Discover how gay Christians committed to a traditional biblical sexual ethic are faithfully navigating identity, theology, celibacy, and spiritual friendship in Part 2 of the Revoice series. Mike Erre speaks with Dr. Johanna Finnegan—MIT PhD, philosopher, and follower of Jesus—whose journey of faith, sexuality, and discipleship offers a deeply personal and thought-provoking perspective. Johanna’s story unfolds with raw honesty, intellectual rigor, and unwavering commitment to living a life shaped by Christ.

In this powerful and deeply reflective episode, Johanna shares how she came to faith in Jesus after growing up in a largely secular household, how being gay shaped her youth and adulthood, and what it means to submit her sexuality to Christ while finding joy, meaning, and even romantic love in ways that defy simple categories.

Key Takeaways: • Facing the Tension Between Faith and Sexuality – Johanna discusses discovering she was gay at a young age and how that reality collided with traditional Christian teachings, leading to deep depression and eventual spiritual awakening. • Encountering Authentic Discipleship – Her transformation was fueled by the love, witness, and persistence of Jesus-following friends who embodied both grace and truth. • Reframing the Goal – Why orientation change isn't the aim of the Christian life; Christlikeness is. • Gay and Celibate, Yet Flourishing – Johanna unpacks the hard but life-giving reality of choosing celibacy, the “better treasure” of following Jesus, and how friendship and community became essential spiritual lifelines. • Marriage, Mystery, and Surrender – The unexpected love story that unfolded with her husband, Tim, showing that obedience doesn’t always mean perpetual loneliness or a denial of God’s goodness. • Responding to Conservative and Progressive Critics – Why language like “gay Christian” need not threaten biblical fidelity, and how faithful celibacy is often misunderstood from both ends of the spectrum. • Why Revoice Matters – Understanding the emergence of the spiritual friendship and Revoice movements as third-way communities that affirm traditional Christian teaching while offering love, visibility, and hope to LGBTQ+ believers.

Guest Highlight: Johanna Finnegan – PhD in Philosophy (MIT), co-laborer with the Revoice and Spiritual Friendship movements, and a compelling voice speaking courageously about the lived experience of gay Christians pursuing holiness, community, and authenticity.

Resources Mentioned: • Revoice Conference – revoice.us • Philip Yancey – Disappointment with God • Wesley Hill – Washed and Waiting • Bridges Across the Divide (dialogue project) • Johanna's website – johannafinnegan.com

Join the growing community of listeners wrestling with how to faithfully embody the mission of Jesus in complex and often misunderstood spaces. Subscribe to the Voxology Podcast, leave us a review, and follow us on social media to continue the conversation.

As always, we encourage and would love discussion as we pursue. Feel free to email in questions to [email protected], and to engage the conversation on Facebook and Instagram.

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Follow us on Instagram: @voxologypodcast and like us on Facebook Follow Mike on Twitter: @mikeerre

Music in this episode by Timothy John Stafford Instagram & Twitter: @GoneTimothy



As always, we encourage and would love discussion as we pursue. Feel free to email in questions to [email protected], and to engage the conversation on Facebook and Instagram.

We're on YouTube (if you're into that kinda thing): VOXOLOGY TV.

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Music in this episode by Timothy John Stafford

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Why the modern megachurch model is failing—and what should rise in its place. Mike Erre and Tim Stafford tackle one of their most candid, raw conversations yet around the toxicity of platform-centric Christianity, the pitfalls of megachurch culture, and the tension between organizational leadership and spiritual shepherding. Drawing from personal experience, listener questions, and real-world examples, they explore the deep systemic issues that plague celebrity-driven church models, while proposing a more biblical and communal way forward.

They also introduce Malaika Sisay, a third-year student at The Ohio State University, whose powerful story of growing up at the intersection of a Muslim household, a white evangelical school, and a Black Pentecostal church sheds new light on how we must reimagine diversity and inclusion in Christian spaces.

Key Takeaways: • The Megachurch Crisis – Why celebrity pastors, organizational culture, and brand obsession are hurting the church’s mission and credibility. • Leadership vs. Shepherding – The danger of confusing business success metrics with spiritual leadership and care. • Platform as Poison – Why platform-centered ministry easily breeds narcissism, exclusion, and spiritual burnout. • Embracing Multiplicity – The biblical imperative to elevate and empower other voices and avoid single-leader charisma traps. • Honest Reflections – Mike and Tim share their own experiences with being both the threatened and the threat within large church structures, and how their views have evolved. • The Power of Presence, Not Performance – Encouraging a return to worship that’s Spirit-led rather than emotionally manipulative or production-driven.

Guest Highlight: Malaika Sisay – A student from OSU with a deeply impactful story of navigating cultural, religious, and racial dynamics as the daughter of Muslim immigrants. Malaika reflects on growing up attending a conservative white Christian school, a West African Pentecostal church, and a mosque—sharing powerful lessons on identity, belonging, and the diverse witness of Jesus.

Resources Mentioned: • 1 Corinthians – Paul's rebuke of personality cults in the early church. • Alan Hirsch – Missional church advocate who challenges attractional models of ministry. • Dallas Willard – Teachings on joyful non-compliance and spiritual disciplines. • Tony Campolo – Stories of obedience and finding God in simple faithfulness. • Podcast with Malaika Sisay – Follow her on Instagram @malaikasesay

Explore with us how we can rediscover the church’s truest calling—equipping people to be Jesus in the world, not just attend a show.

Let us know your thoughts and continue the dialogue! Email us at [email protected] and join the conversation on Facebook and Instagram.

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Music by Timothy John Stafford – Instagram & Twitter: @GoneTimothy



As always, we encourage and would love discussion as we pursue. Feel free to email in questions to [email protected], and to engage the conversation on Facebook and Instagram.

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Music in this episode by Timothy John Stafford

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