We Can Do Hard Things

We all have something inside us that knows exactly what we want. 

Katie Gavin joins us to talk about: 

How to identify that kernel of desire inside—and then have the courage to follow it; 

Why love addiction can feel like being stuck on a “treadmill in the cosmos”; and

the moment Katie called Glennon a Femme/Dom—and how it changed Glennon’s life forever. 

Katie Gavin’s album: What A Relief

About Katie: 

Katie Gavin is a musician and member of the pop band MUNA, and released her debut solo album What A Relief this past October 2024—an album about a deep desire for connection and the obstacles standing in the way of achieving that. Gavin’s explorations of desire and intimacy feel time-worn and necessary – songs that might teach a generation if not how to live, exactly, then at least how to look within oneself for guidance about how to move forward. Katie is currently in the studio with MUNA working on their forthcoming album.

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Glennon shares the new way she’s making peace with her body—not through individual “wellness,” but through community care and collective action. Together, we explore why it’s more important than ever that we show up—even if we’re scared or heartbroken—because the world needs our broken hearts. And we unearth a small miracle: by listening to our bodies, we can participate in life without abandoning ourselves. 

Join us now. 

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Music icons, queer trailblazers, and our heroes—Indigo Girls and Melissa Etheridge—share the wisdom, humor, and heart that have carried them through decades of music and community. We talk about faith, the power of music to heal and connect, their advice for queer kids, and the lessons they’re learning from young activists.

About Indigo Girls: 

Across four decades, 16 studio albums, and over 15 million records sold, the Grammy-winning Indigo Girls – Emily Saliers and Amy Ray – continue to blaze the trail for generations of Queer artists in the mainstream. 

Committed and uncompromising activists, Saliers and Ray work on issues like racial justice and reproductive rights, immigration reform, LGBTQ advocacy, education, death penalty reform, and Native American rights.

Indigo Girls was the first of six consecutive Gold and/or Platinum-certified albums.Their latest record, Look Long, is a stirring and eclectic collection of songs that finds the duo reunited in the studio with their strongest backing band to date. 

About Melissa: 

Melissa Etheridge stormed onto the American rock scene in 1988 with the release of her critically acclaimed self-titled debut album. Etheridge hit her commercial and artistic stride with her fourth album, Yes I Am. The collection featured the massive hits, "I'm the Only One" and "Come to My Window," a searing song of longing that brought Etheridge her second Grammy Award for Best Female Rock Performance. 

Known for her confessional lyrics and raspy, smoky vocals, Etheridge has remained one of America’s favorite female singers for more than two decades. 

In June of 2020, Etheridge launched The Etheridge Foundation to support groundbreaking scientific research into effective new treatments for opioid use disorder. 

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Glennon, Abby, and Amanda share the bittersweet moment they dropped Tish off at college—and how they’re navigating the lucky grief of parenting older kids.

If you, too, are in the middle of this landslide—learning how to hold on and let go as your kids grow up—this conversation is for you. 

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Natasha Rothwell is here today to teach us not only how to survive this time, but how to absolutely stay alive—and hold onto our wild, precious humanity—during this time. 

During this magical hour, we discuss:

- The paradox of being an introvert who loves people;

- How Natasha finds God in theater, laughter, and even pain;

- How understanding her neurodivergence set Natasha free; and

- How we can resist fascism by leaning into delight, sexuality, creativity, and nature.

This conversation will wake you up. Don’t miss it. 

About Natasha:

Natasha Rothwell is the creator, executive producer, and star of the critically acclaimed Hulu series How to Die Alone, which is currently streaming. She recently earned her second Emmy nomination for her standout performance as Belinda Lindsey in Season 3 of HBO’s The White Lotus, reprising the role that first made her a fan favorite in Season 1. Natasha is also known for work on HBO’s Insecure. In 2020, she founded her production company Big Hattie Productions to create, produce, and develop genre-bending projects that champion marginalized voices in subversive ways.

For more conversations about neurodivergence, check out:

82. Hannah Gadsby: How to Communicate Better

220. Why So Many Women Don’t Know They are Autistic with Katherine May

294. What ADHD Feels Like with Jaklin Levine-Pritzker

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Each of us has something we’re pretending not to know—an inner voice that whispers: We’re in trouble.

Join us for a raw conversation with Jen Hatmaker on: 

About Jen:

Jen Hatmaker is a bestselling author, award-winning podcaster, and fierce advocate for women living in freedom and agency. With 14 books—including four New York Times bestsellers—she reaches millions with her signature mix of humor, vulnerability, and wisdom. Her newest book, AWAKE: A Memoir, is out now, and chronicles her raw, real-time journey through the shocking end of her 26-year marriage and surprising reinvention. She lives in a creaky old farmhouse, loves 90s country, and drinks Almond Joy creamer like it’s a personality trait.

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Pod Squad! Starting tomorrow, you'll be able to WATCH all of our We Can Do Hard Things conversations on YouTube! 

To make sure you don’t miss tomorrow’s FIRST video show, click over to the We Can Do Hard Things Show YouTube channel and subscribe now: youtube.com/@WeCanDoHardThingsShow

After you subscribe, click the bell button so you don’t miss new video episodes—dropping every Tuesday and Thursday! And of course, you’ll still find the audio version wherever you listen.

SEE you on You Tube! 

G, A and A

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You’ve been asking for 4 years, and the day is finally here! You can now WATCH all We Can Do Hard Things conversations on YouTube!!!  

Click over to the We Can Do Hard Things Show YouTube channel and subscribe here now:  https://www.youtube.com/@WeCanDoHardThingsShow After you subscribe, click the bell button so you don’t miss new video episodes (every Tuesday and Thursday)!

In this FIRST EVER VIDEO EPISODE OF WE CAN DO HARD THINGS—Glennon, Abby and Amanda get extra honest about how they’re holding on to joy, rage, and hope during this American moment. They discuss their breakdowns and breakthroughs, their nationwide tour, and they share their vision of the Freedom Fleet— a united movement that not only organizes and strategizes—but dances and laughs and loves its way toward freedom. 

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443. Liz Gilbert on Loving Without Losing Yourself 

Glennon and Liz Gilbert go deeper into Liz’s relationship with Rayya, into the tender, messy, miraculous place where caring for someone else pushes hard against caring for yourself. They talk about the quiet traps of codependency, the heartbreak of giving away your power, and the transformative freedom that comes when you turn to a higher voice for guidance.

Listen to the first part of our conversation here.

About Elizabeth:

Elizabeth Gilbert is the author of nine previous works of fiction and nonfiction, which collectively have sold more than 25 million copies worldwide, spent more than 250 weeks on the New York Times bestseller list, and been translated into more than fifty languages.  She has been a finalist for the National Book Award, the National Book Critics Circle Award, and the PEN/Hemingway Award. With more than 20 million views of her TED Talk and 2.7 million followers on her social media accounts, she continues to be one of the most beloved and influential writers of our age..

Her new memoir: ALL THE WAY TO THE RIVER: Love, Loss, and Liberation is available now.

442. Elizabeth Gilbert on Losing the Love of Her Life 

Elizabeth Gilbert comes to Glennon’s home to talk about her love with Rayya Elias—the joy, the devastation, and the truth-telling that came after. Liz opens up about the brutal reality of addiction—Rayya’s drug addiction and her own love addiction—and how their secret lives collided. This is a conversation about intimacy, betrayal, codependency, survival, and recovery. And it’s about how even the hardest truths, once spoken, can set us free.

About Elizabeth:

Elizabeth Gilbert is the author of nine previous works of fiction and nonfiction, which collectively have sold more than 25 million copies worldwide, spent more than 250 weeks on the New York Times bestseller list, and been translated into more than fifty languages.  She has been a finalist for the National Book Award, the National Book Critics Circle Award, and the PEN/Hemingway Award. With more than 20 million views of her TED Talk and 2.7 million followers on her social media accounts, she continues to be one of the most beloved and influential writers of our age..

Her new memoir: ALL THE WAY TO THE RIVER: Love, Loss, and Liberation is available now.