Where Do We Go From Here?

*Trigger warning: This episode contains references to sexual assault.

Comedian John Crist made his return to public comedic work last week with an "apology" video. We talk about the allegations levelled against him by five women in November 2019 after which Netflix canceled his special and WaterBrook & Multnomah canceled his book.

We discuss:

How does Purity Culture influence the way we talk about sexual abuse?

What is an abuse of power?

What does a sincere apology look like and how can we make amends when we've done wrong?

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If you wonder what progressive sexual ethics can look like, Matthias Roberts is here to open up the conversation. He speaks to us as a therapist and an author, but he's also a gay man who grew up in the trenches of evangelical purity culture. This episode is also a great starting point if you want to better understand your LGBTQ+ friends and relatives.

In Ask Us Anything, Jess & Devi talk about The "Purity" Hoax, and address the question: Was Jim and Elisabeth Elliot's love story real?

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Matthias Roberts is author of Beyond Shame: Creating a Healthy Sex Life on Your Own Terms (Fortress, 2020) and host of Queerology: A Podcast on Belief and Being which was named as one of the "12 Best LGBTQ+ Podcasts of 2020" by O: The Oprah Magazine and the #1 Podcast to Listen to on National Coming Out Day by Radio.com. He holds two master's degrees, one in theology and culture and one in counseling psychology from The Seattle School of Theology and Psychology. In his psychotherapy practice, Matthias specializes in helping LGBTQ+ teens and adults live confident and fulfilling lives. He writes and speaks often about the intersections between gender, sexuality, mental health, and theology.

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Are you tired of viewing the men and women in your life as potential mates or potential sexual temptations? In our sex-crazed world, is the church any different when it comes to male female relationships? Listen in to hear why men and women can be friends, supporters, and partners in building the world.

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Bronwyn Lea has been active for twenty years in vocational ministry, encourage, teach, and mobilize Christians of all ages. A graduate of law school and seminary, she ministers in her local church and also heads up Propel Sophia, the Christian living wisdom resource for Propel Women. Bronwyn is the author of Beyond Awkward Side Hugs: Living as Christian Brothers and Sisters in a Sex-Crazed World.

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Jessica and Devi are taking a 2 week break from releasing regular podcast episodes. We'll be back with more before you know it!

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Pastor Curtis Allen joined Covenant Life Church in Gaithersberg, Maryland as a young Black man and after he joined the majority white church, he discovered the dating culture to be...different. From the overuse of the "guard her heart" mantra to rooms divided in half with all men on one side and all women on the other side. It was a world saturated in the I Kissed Dating Goodbye courtship methodology.

This conversation was recorded years before the murders of Ahmaud Arbery, Breonna Taylor, and George Floyd and the fresh wave of #blacklivesmatter protests we've seen around the world in the past weeks. But Pastor Curtis Allen's words to us about his experience as a Black man in a majority white church will give us all something to think about. From the ushers who wouldn't give him a program to the weight of having to assimilate, Pastor Allen speaks honestly words that all of us need to hear.

This interview is a departure from our usual format. The audio you hear in this episode is Josh Harris interviewing Pastor Curtis Allen for the documentary I Survived I Kissed Dating Goodbye, a film made by our co-host Jessica Van Der Wyngaard.

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This conversation is for you if you've been single longer than you expected to be or know someone who wrestles with prolonged singelness. Katelyn Beaty gives us a candid glimpse into her journey from Wheaton to New York City, and the way her internal landscape changed from shame to freedom. Katelyn Beaty is author of A Woman's Place: A Christian Vision for Your Calling in the Office, the Home, and the World, and has written on issues of gender, politics, and the church for The New York Times, The Atlantic, The New Yorker, The Washington Post, and more. She previously served as the youngest and first female managing editor of Christianity Today magazine and currently serves as an acquisitions editor with Brazos Press. She lives in New York City and, in non-pandemic times, enjoys karaoke, birdwatching, and travel. Connect with Katelyn on Twitter and find out more at KatelynBeaty.com. Continue the conversation with us on Twitter & Instagram Get episodes of The Jess & Devi Show for $1 or $3USD/month Episode show notes here

Have you ever wanted to sit down with your mom or dad to talk about your life as a teenager? Jess went there. She and her mother, Caren, talk about what life in purity culture was like as a parent - what were the pressures on parents? What's it like to have your daughter publicly talking about your parenting?

This is a warm but feisty mother daughter conversation that opens up the way parents and children can misunderstand and miscommunicate and why grace is the most relevant ingredient for family relationships.

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Today Lore Ferguson Wilbert is here to re-educate us on platonic touch. Listen in to hear why hugs, back scratches, and welcome platonic touch are a necessary part of being human.

Jess and Devi also get into how touch meant something to them both the good and the bad and what they've done in seasons of their lives when there weren't people around to touch.

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Lore Ferguson Wilbert is a writer, thinker, learner, and author of the book, Handle With Care. She writes for She Reads Truth, Christianity Today, Lifeway, and more, as well as her own site, Sayable. You can find her on Twitter and Instagram. She has a husband named Nate, a puppy named Harper Nelle, and too many books to read in one lifetime.

Ravi Zacharias died on May 19, 2020, and amidst the flood of social media posts saying #thankyouRavi by Christian celebrities like Tim Tebow and ministry leaders like Louie Giglio, there have been the quiet reminders of Zacharias' alleged harassment of a woman in Canada.

This is a meaty episode - not for the theologically faint of heart - as Jess and Devi talk about the Myth of the Christian Hero. Why do we need these famous Christians to be "perfect"? What does it say about us that we even need heroes or a king figure to look up to?

Jess also talks about working with Josh Harris while she was making the documentary I Survived I Kissed Dating Goodbye and the impact of Christian celebrity culture she witnessed around Harris.

(Image of Ravi Zacharias is from Ravi Zacharias International Ministries media kit, image of Josh Harris is a screen grab from I Survived I Kissed Dating Goodbye)

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It's our first episode about queer Christianity, and Jenna De Witt joins us to talk about aromantic asexuality. We talk about what it's been like for her to navigate a church life and secular life that assumes everyone is sexually attracted to someone, and Jenna shares her calling with us for asexual people to know that they aren't alone.

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Jenna DeWitt is an aromantic asexual Methodist. She spent a decade writing and editing in Christian media, and now edits a wide variety of publications from tech support to books to articles to curriculum. She holds a bachelor of arts in journalism from Baylor University. She's originally from a small town near the border of Eastern New Mexico and the West Texas Panhandle, but now she lives in sunny Southern California, where she co-leads the LGBTQIA+ social group at her company. You can read her blog, Invisible Cake Society, and find her on Twitter at @Jenna_DeWitt for more on aromantic asexual advocacy within the church, singleness, mental health, and feminist pop music.