With Pace

For the past 20 years, Chad Cheeney has been one of the most influential people in U.S. cycling, even if you’ve never heard of him. As the co-founder of Durango Devo, he’s helped foster the childhood talents of Sepp Kuss, Chris Blevins, Howard Grotts, Riley Amos, and Quinn Simmons, to name a few. More importantly, he’s instilled a lifelong love of cycling in countless Durango kids, regardless of whether they embark on racing careers.

We had Chad on the show in 2021 to talk about this portion of his life. But today, he’s here to talk about his latest cycling obsession, tracklocross, which involves riding a fixed-gear track bike on the most counterintuitive terrain possible. Chad explains why it’s the perfect discipline for older riders, how it’s reinvigorated his sense of joy on the bike, and why it all relates to the 1890s. Plus, he talks about watching Sepp Kuss’s heroic and then terrifying ride at the Queen Stage of the Tour de France last weekend and what he took away from it as a coach.

More information on tracklocross:

Dracklo Turango - local blog for updates and tracklo hype

Dracklo Turango Instagram

Chad's Instagram 

Dracklo.com for tracklocross events 

63xc.com - old-school fixed gear MTB blog

Fiefdom - answers to all tracklocross questions

Tracklocross Worlds in Zurich Instagram

The Green Video - Chad's favorite edit with legends Matt Reyes and Chas Christiansen

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If you were racing with Matt Wilson last year, it was pretty clear that he was one of the strongest in the bunch, but through mechanicals and various other extenuating circumstances, he never managed to translate his talents into a top finish. This year, the Kiwi rider is out to prove what he can do. First, he snagged third at New Zealand Road Nats and second at XC Nats. Then, he earned one of the wild card spots in the Grand Prix at Unbound. Six days later, he lined up at Tulsa Tough, the biggest crit race in the U.S., and won it on his Unbound bike. Since then, he’s been on a cross-country road trip, hitting up seemingly every race along the way.  

Payson sat down with Matt in Durango to discuss his breakout season, jam-packed schedule, and the injury that has forced him to take a much needed break. They also talk about his friendship with fellow Kiwi and training buddy Cam Jones, and his history racing U23 on the XC World Cup circuit.

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Tom Evans is one of the best ultrarunners in the world, having won both UTMB and Western States. Now, the British runner has his sights set on the Hardrock 100, one of the most technical of the major ultradistance races that starts at 9,300 feet above sea level and covers 33,000 feet of climbing in the rugged San Juan Mountains. Tom talks to Payson about the challenge of preparing for such a remote race at altitude, the team he’s assembled, and why he prioritises enjoyment over numbers in the weeks leading up to racing. He also discusses his unlikely route to ultradistance running after a career in the military, and how Red Bull signed him right before his first major result. 

Plus, we get some insight into his mindset from cognitive specialist Dr David Spindler, who has been working on the ground with Tom in Silverton for the past few weeks. 

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This week, Payson sits down for a candid conversation with Levi Leipheimer. They discuss his long road to processing his time in the WorldTour in the early 2000s, which was marked by remarkable professional success but marred by the doping scandal that shook the cycling world in the early 2010s. Levi talks about how he went from an idealistic kid in Montana dreaming of the WorldTour to his decision to take EPO. As is always the case, it’s not a straightforward story, and it’s taken him years to fully reckon with it. They also discuss how Payson’s generation of riders did their own processing of the scandal, and how Levi views his career now. 

Check out Osprey's Campcore collection here: https://www.osprey.com/featured/collaborations/campcore

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Nino Schurter hardly needs an introduction. Widely considered the greatest XCO mountain bike racer of all time, he's won 10 World Championships, nine World Cup overalls, and Olympic bronze, silver, and gold medals. Having retired from World Cup racing at the end of last year, he's been dipping a toe into gravel racing in 2026. 

In this conversation, Nino talks to Payson about his longevity in the sport and his undefeated 2017 season. He also dives into how his passion for product development and testing led to some of the most transformative innovations in the sport, and shares his perspective on gravel racing as a relative newcomer.

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In the second part of our Unbound recap, Payson speaks to three age-group riders who finished in the middle of the night during torrential rain and thunderstorms. First up is Will Bledsoe, who completed the 100 last year and did most of his training for the 200 this year on an indoor trainer. He talks about his preparation for the race, why he was the very last rider to leave Emporia at the start, and the mental battle to finish the event in such historic conditions. 

Then, Emily and Justin talk about their Unbound experience. Emily decided not to do the 100 this year and was therefore on full-time support duties for Justin, who was hoping to complete his fifth 200 and join the 1,000-mile club. He finished at 1:30 after a series of downpours and thunderstorms that, at one point, forced him to take shelter in a convenience store. 

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This year’s Unbound was humbling. Mud, thunder storms, and mechanicals galore plagued the racers and culled the pro field. To recap the carnage, Payson is joined by Danni Shrosbree, who battled multiple crises to grab a top 10 and secure a wildcard position in the Grand Prix. They discuss their top 5 “What the f*ck” moments from the race, their 5 silver linings, and the 5 most painful parts of their bodies when they crossed the finish line. Plus, we hear from listeners who participated in the race, and Payson gives an overview of the Grand Prix points standings.  

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Dan Hughes is a certified Unbound legend, having won the very first edition way back in 2006 and another three times for good measure. He’s seen the race go from 34 people in a hotel parking lot in Emporia to the most prestigious gravel race in the world. An Emporia local, he now works for Life Time as a Content Specialist and has already spent hours doing recon in the Flint Hills. 

In other words, there is no better person to talk to about the course. Payson sits down with Dan this week for a detailed breakdown of this year’s route. For the 20th anniversary of the event, the organisers decided to make this one extra special, incorporating new roads and some old favourites. They discuss weather, water crossings, trains, a new feed zone for the pros, and much more. But first, Dan provides some backstory on the race that has become the focal point of the gravel calendar. 

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Sam Shaw isn’t your average FKT setter. The Kiwi rider has raced XC, gravel, and Enduro over the years (he was on the podium at XCO nationals just this year), but since getting married and starting a family, he’s worked full-time off the bike as an ecologist and carpenter. Last year, he set the fastest known time between Auckland and Wellington, beating Lachlan Morton’s record. Earlier this month, he set the FKT on the Great Tracks Traverse, a 240-mile route that covers New Zealand’s Paparoa Track, Old Ghost Road, and Heaphy Track, which Payson tackled in 2024. 

Sam caught up with Payson during his lunch break from building a roof to talk about how he took on the route, including training while commuting, riding a bike he received just hours before setting off, having to plan around conservation laws that put part of the route off limits at night, and fueling. 

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The first World Cup of the season took place in a new country (South Korea) and featured treacherously muddy conditions that forced riders to navigate large sections of the course on foot. 24-year-old Maddie Munro crossed the finish line in third, using her cyclocross background to propel herself to the best result she’s had since joining the Elite ranks last year. 

Payson caught up with Maddie to talk about starting the race on tires she’d never ridden, battling with the World Champion at the front of the race, and the emotional reception she received from her team at the finish. They also discuss the broader implications of her result. After signing with Trek Factory Racing at just 18, Maddie did not have her contract renewed after last season, which left her scrambling to find an alternative. Now racing with Liv Cycling, she says she felt at home almost immediately. 

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Instagram: @withpacepodcast
YouTube: Payson McElveen

Email: [email protected]