This week’s episode I have an interview with the lovely Sonia Thompson who is a customer experience strategist and consultant and CEO of Thompson Media Group. We are going to be talking all about the Black Lives Matter movement and how we can ensure we are doing everything we can in our business marketing to be inclusive.
KEY TAKEAWAYS COVERED IN THE PODCAST
- As much as we focus on speaking to the right person, we also need to make sure we are not putting anyone off as well.
- Ask yourself: Am I being inclusive to everyone this is suitable for?
- You can’t serve everyone, but you need to be intentional about who you want to serve and who you don’t.
- Create an inclusive environment where customers who do have special requirements don’t feel they have to ask and stand out.
- It is sometimes worse to not say anything or acknowledge something is happening.
- It is better to be the business that acknowledges something is going on, that the one that says nothing.
- If you make a statement, it needs to relate to your value and how your business operates. You need to really truly believe in what you are saying.
- It’s ok if you haven’t got it right in the past, just acknowledge this and how you are going to move forward.
- It is important to have conversations with people if you don’t understand something due to never experiencing it.
- Diversify your circle of influence – Make sure the voices you are listening to are all different to give you a broader view of the world.
- Re-evaluate your customer avatar – If you limit and define your avatar, you could be leaving out a big group of people who may have the same pain points and needs.
- Commit to representation – Your customers need to see themselves and who they aspire to be in your marketing and business.
- Make cultural intelligence a priority – If you don’t have an understanding or appreciation for other cultures, it can be very easy to say the wrong thing and potentially offend.
- Take an audit of your customer experience – Go through your customer journey and think about the signals you want to send out.
THE ONE THING YOU NEED TO REMEMBER ABOVE ALL ELSE…It is better to try and potentially get it wrong, rather than say nothing at all. This isn’t just for now, this is an ongoing problem that needs to be addressed and things need to change.HIGHLIGHTS YOU SIMPLY CAN'T MISS
- An Introduction to Sonia – 07:01
- Being Inclusive in Marketing – 10:22
- The Inclusivity Spectrum – 14:20
- Mistakes We Can Learn From – 19:20
- 5 Steps to a More Inclusive Business – 27:50
LINKS TO RESOURCES MENTIONED IN TODAYS EPISODE
- Sonia's site
- LinkedIn
- Freebie
Transcript below
Hello and welcome back to this week's episode of the podcast. How are you doing? So thank you so much, firstly, for all the lovely comments and DMs and things after last week's episode, it was a slightly odd episode.
Uh, I am very happy to say that I am much more on the mend and have enjoyed being back in the swing of things of work, which is lovely. And I know it seems like, I dunno, is it sad or is it, you know, not good for me? And people will be like, "Oh, you should be resting." But the fact is I love work. It makes me truly happy.
So actually I am more than happy to be back. I'm more than happy to be sat at my desk, which I enjoy very much. Maybe I should get a hobby. Um, anyway, this week we have great episode and I don't mind telling you that I was a bit nervous about doing this episode. So obviously you'll be aware that some months back there was a awful lot of press and news around the black lives matter movements.
And there was a big thing on social media putting up black squares and people sort of commenting things. And if I'm totally honest, there was a real nervousness around it in terms of what people were saying and doing, and were they doing the right thing or not doing the right thing? And I have to say I was one of those people that was also really nervous.
I didn't want to make a mistake and I didn't want to do something that potentially could be seen the wrong way or, or not do something. And it was a really, really tricky situation to get right. But I knew that I had not educated myself enough. I knew that I had not surrounded myself enough in this situation, in, in the circle of friends, in various different things.
And that I had to change that and that I had to make a conscious effort to ensure that I understood what was going on. So obviously I did things in my personal life where I watch things on Netflix and I read things. And, and to be honest, I didn't post these on social media because I didn't, it again, it's really tricky cause I didn't want it to look like, look, "I'm just watching this thing and reading this thing because of social media and now I've ticked this box."
I really didn't want it to be like that. So I didn't say that I'd been educating myself, but I was educating myself. And then I was very keen looking inwardly at my own business that actually I need to make some changes in my business as well. And in terms of what circle of influence I had got and who had come on the podcast and what guests I'd interviewed.
And I knew that I wanted to interview someone who could talk about this, who could advise us as small businesses as to how we can bring this in. Because I've been at talks before. And I've been in conferences before where there's been a speaker, who's talked about inclusion and they've tended to talk about big businesses and big companies and TV advertising and, and, you know, using actors and that sort of thing.
And I knew that that just wouldn't work. So I wanted to find someone that could really talk to you guys as business owners and help us become more inclusive. Not only with the black lives matter movement, but also inclusive in every way. And I basically, some has stumbled across this very lovely lady called Sonia Thompson, who actually ended up being on Amy Porterville's podcast.
And I listened to it and I was like, do you know what you have just hit the nail fully on the head. This is exactly what I think I need for my audience. So I reached out to her and she very kindly said she would come on the podcast. So I have recorded an interview with the very lovely Sonia Thompson. She is a customer experience strategist and consultant and CEO of Thompson Media Group, where she helps companies deliver inclusive and remarkable customer experiences that win customers, she also writes a weekly column for Forbes and Ink. This woman knows her stuff where she covers high belonging, inclusive marketing, and remarkable customer too serious. I'll try that again. Remarkable customer experiences, fuel growth and customer loyalty. So honestly, could that bio read. Any better for what I need for what you guys need and something that is going to help us all.
She was so lovely to talk to. And I said to her that I was nervous and I didn't want to make a mistake. I didn't want to get it wrong. And she really helped me understand as to how we can confidently go out into our businesses and ensure that we are doing everything that we can do to be inclusive in our marketing.
And she was great to talk to. I had a lovely, lovely chat with her, so I really hope you enjoy this week's episode and get, get lots from it. And I can't wait to hear what you think.
Okay. I am so excited today to welcome Sonia Thompson to the podcast. Welcome Sonya, how are you doing?
I'm doing well. Thank you so much for having me.
My absolute pleasure. So I am really excited about today's episode because I love it when I interview someone where I need to learn. Okay. And I like it when I can act stupid because I, I am as much learning as my listeners. So for me today, I am ready to suck up as much information as possible in order to improve.
Not only for my listeners, how they can become more inclusive, but also for myself. Because I think as business owners, you do have lots of things to think about and you have to juggle lots of things. But I think what's happened recently is so important for us to sit and go, actually, am I really being, you know, you might feel like you're not being.
It's sort of excluding people, but the sheer fact that you're not including them is probably just as bad as the fact that you're not going this isn't for you type thing. So I'm really excited about today's episode, but you are, you're actually your background and where you've come from, what you do is also very apt for us and what we do here.
So please tell my audience, guess, haven't heard of you where you came from, what you've done and how you got to be doing what you're doing right now.
Sure. Uh, so I worked a corporate job for what nine years. Um, and I worked in healthcare and marketing. And, like most people I realized in the first year that corporate life was not for me.
Um, but I kept making excuses and I ended up staying for nine years. Right. Um, and, um, but the good news is while I was there, I picked up some great skills. Great built a great network that really helped me. Um, whenever I left and to start my own business. Um, I really wanted to, my goal was to help entrepreneurs, um, in the, in the realm of customer delight and customer experience. That is always where, I've you know been excited about talking, um, in, in have loved it whenever I've been delighted by a business and been frustrated whenever I've gone to a business that had so much potential, but they just, the owners struggled with the business part of running a business.
Right. So, yeah. I just kind of made it hard to be a customer. So anyway, I did that. Um, I left my job. I quit my job. And spends a lot of time, um, working on learning concept marketing. So as a way to sort of build up and have people learn more about me. So along the way, um, I ended up writing for a bunch of different publications.
So right now I have a column in Ink. I have a column in Forbes. I write for a number of different publications and, um, I do my consulting work. Where I, um, help businesses, um, enhance their customer experience. Um, and that includes making sure that their marketing is inclusive. Um, so that, because that of course is part of the customer experience.
Cause a lot of businesses don't really realize that they're sending signals along their customer journey that is pushing customers away rather than saying you are welcome here and letting them know that they belong here. Um, and that became sort of a passion project for me. Um, not a project, but just sort of an area of a great interest for me because I've got a lot of differences. I'm a black woman. Um, I followed a gluten free diet. I'm lefthanded. I'm an expat. I live in Argentina rather than the US. Um, recently, now, like I got married here, so my husband is Argentine. So we're in a mixed race, mixed cultural marriage. We just had a baby and now we have a mixed daughter who's going to be bilingual.
And cross-cultural like, so there's all these differences that we have. And I encounter businesses differently because I don't neatly fit into the mainstream. So as a result, there are plenty of times where I feel like I don't belong and I am ecstatic whenever I encounter a business that went out of their way, or they clearly decided that they wanted to make sure that I, in whatever it was difference was felt included and felt like.
You know, they saw me, they got me and they wanted to make sure that they adapted their experience or they not adapted. They built their experience in a way that made sure that it would work for
me.
And do you know what, there's so many things about your story and about what you just said that really kind of hit me in terms of you talked about.
What you're doing to push your customer away. And we often talk about, and when I talk about creating your perfect avatar, finding that perfect customer, I say to my audience, you need to write for them like you're in their head. You know? So there's a lot of work we do around attracting that right person.
Right.
But in the same breath, we're not checking while we're doing that. We're not putting off the right person as well. So rather than just thinking of it as a, you know, am I getting to the right person? It's almost like, but am I being inclusive to everyone that this is suitable for rather than just one person.
Right.
And the thing is. You can't serve everybody. And I'm not suggesting that you serve everybody. It's more that you are intentional about who you want to serve and who you aren't serving. So for instance, there's a lot of, um, businesses who will say, okay, we serve women. Right. But, um, and they want to make sure that they have a business that is very welcoming to women.
Okay. So we're gonna actively repel men. That's okay. We're making that choice, but there's a lot of different nuances in women, right. So, um, you know, are there types of women that you are sending these unconscious signals or are unknowingly sending these signals that your business isn't for them. Even though they can fit your avatar perfectly in terms of the psychographics, but when it comes to those demographics. And demographics are important, because they impact the way someone receives your messages, they impact the way someone sees and views the world. Right. And so, because of that, um, you just need to make sure that you're being specific about who are the different types of women that you want to serve and making sure that you are adjusting your avatar accordingly and adjusting the way in which you send those signals out to make sure that they do feel welcome.
Yeah. Yeah. And the other thing I love that you said, one of the things you talked about is the fact that you're gluten free, which I know Whiteside really silly that we've come on and have this conversation.
Yeah. Because obviously there's been and rightly so a huge, surge of, of awareness and knowledge around the black lives matter movement. Which is so, so important, which is obviously why I've looked at me and what I do and gone. Oh, actually, I've got a lot to learn here. Um, but also the fact that when we talk about being inclusive, we, we are talking about lots of things.
I have a brother who's special needs that I have, you know, family that, you know, I've got different needs and different wants and that sort of thing. And like said I can relate to the gluten free thing. And what's really interesting cause I've listened to some episodes, some different interviews that Sonia has already done.
And you mentioned in one of them that having to go to a restaurant and go I'm gluten free. Right? I hate it! And you know what happens, right. We went out for dinner just the other day, because although we're still in some kind of lockdown, the restaurants have opened again. And we went out for dinner and I was sat off as, at the time of my husband and this woman, the waitress comes over and she's like, "is there any allergies that I need to know about?"
And I'm celiac. So it's like, I absolutely can't have gluten and, um. Anyway and I'm like, "no, no."
What is wrong with you? And it's
like, do you know what? I just look at the menu. And I was just like, guess what's gluten-free. Cause I don't want to make a fuss about, I don't want to stand down and I don't want to be one of those people that, you know, they find it annoying because they're going to have to make an allowance for it, you know?
Right. There's this, um, I have this thing called the inclusivity spectrum, um, and I can create something for your audience if they want to find out where their business falls in the
inclusivity.
That would be amazing.
But one of the things that is. There were, there's a business in the way where you can fall is where your customers feel like they have to raise their hand if they're different.
Right. So we've got, we've got accommodations for you. We can serve you, but you have to let us know how you're different first, and then we can accommodate you. Even though it's helpful. Like you can be served, you can get your needs met. There are times, like you just said where you don't want to have to raise your hand and say that, you know, you need these special needs.
This, this one stood out to me. Um, very much so I read Shonda Rhimes book the Year Of Yes.
Yes it's. So my list it's on my list.
It's a fantastic book, but she gave an example of, um, the time that she was on an airplane. This is before she lost a ton of weight. And she needed the seatbelt extender. Right
Because
Been there, done that.
It didn't quite fit in her first class seat.
And she felt like she's like, you know what? At this plane goes down, I'm going to die because she did not want to have to raise her hand to ask for it because it was just. It just made her feel not good. Right? So there are times where whenever you've got customers, you've got differences. You do have some types of accommodations for them, or you have thought about them so that you can serve them.
But if they have to raise their hand to say, "Yes, I need this special menu. I need the seatbelt extender" or whatever it is, you know, depending upon where they are, they just might not want to have to do it. So if you can create the environment so that they feel, um, seen without having to signal to everyone else, how they're different, it makes the experience for them so much better.
Honestly, this is, this whole conversation is resonating with me so much in the sense of I've been that person having taught. And it honestly it's mortifying me saying this, but I have been that business. That's asked for a seatbelt extender and I make my husband does not need one, but because I am so mortified.
And then I look at, you know, and the funny thing is then I start comparing myself to other people like. Well, I'm not that big. I'm not like ridiculously huge. I'm not, you know, so why can't I fit in the seat, you know? And like you said, it's, it's more for the fact that we have to acknowledge our difference and, and make that obvious to the world, you know?
And it's like, I don't want to have to do that. And so I thank you for putting in a way that I can, I can completely understand that, but that is not something we want for anybody we don't want someone's having to go, I have this different need. And although I know you're going to accept it, I've got to bring it to you.
And I don't want to do that. Cause that's just a bit. Can be humiliating, especially with something like, seatbelt extended Jesus man. Yeah. You know, but yeah. That's so good. Okay. So, so let's talk specifically, then more around everything that's come up in sense of black lives matter and in terms of being inclusive, that, because I'm really interested to hear from you in terms of not necessarily naming and shaming businesses at all. But what I, what I would like to hear from you is what do you think some businesses are doing wrong so that hopefully if someone sat out there and they go, yeah, "Oh God, I do that and I didn't realize". Because right, for me, this is, I know that, you know, you've had this conversation...
