You’ll want to send this episode to every friend who casually drops the phrase "I'm so depressed" when they're just having a bad day, or anyone trying to figure out where normal sadness ends and something much heavier begins.

Have you noticed how casually we throw around major mental health terms over coffee, accidentally minimizing a condition that deeply impacts both the brain and the body?

In this episode of But Are You Happy?, host Ashani Dante sits down with clinical psychologist Julie Chapman to explore the complex reality of depression. We go beyond the casual slang to uncover what it truly means.

Together, they discuss the danger of casual language and why confusing ordinary sadness with a clinical episode does a disservice to both. Julie breaks down why depression looks completely different from the outside depending on who is experiencing it, meaning those closest to you might only ever see the tiniest cracks. They look at how a major life shift, like a relationship breakdown or having children, can shatter the protective people-pleasing structures keeping our underlying pain at bay, while confronting the physical reality of mental illness to dismantle the myth that we are just heads on sticks.

The conversation also explores the relationship between our minds and bodies, challenging common assumptions about what a depressive episode looks like and offering practical insights into recognising a system failure before the spiral takes over.

Discover more Mamamia Podcasts here.

Watch But Are You Happy on YouTube. Follow us on Instagram here. 

Feedback: [email protected]

Share your story, feedback, or dilemma! Send us a voice message, and one of our Podcast Producers will get back to you ASAP.

Rate or review us on Apple by clicking on the three dots in the top right-hand corner, click Go To Show then scroll down to the bottom of the page, click on the stars at the bottom and write a review.

CREDITS:

Guest: Julie Chapman

Host: Ashani Dante

Senior Producer: Tahli Blackman

Group Executive Producer: Naima Brown

Audio and Video Producer: Marlena Cacciotti

Social Media Producer: Olivia Colman

If you want to support independent women's media, become a Mamamia subscriber. Get an all-access pass to everything we make, including exclusive podcasts, articles, videos and our exercise app, MOVE.

 

Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land on which we have recorded this podcast.

https://www.mamamia.com.au/mplus/: https://www.mamamia.com.au/

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This summer we're curating your playlist with some of our favourite episodes of BIZ - our podcast that gets your work life sorted!

Working your way up isn't just about putting in more hours or waiting your turn. It's about being strategic, being visible, and knowing how to navigate the messy middle - like relationships, timing, and office politics. This week, we're giving you the exact playbook to stop waiting around for someone to tell you that you're ready for a promotion and how to actually make it happen instead.

We dig into how to know if you're actually ready to move up (spoiler: time in seat doesn't equal readiness), the art of asking for advancement without sounding pushy or awkward, and how to build the kind of reputation that makes people want to champion your career. Plus, we tackle what to do when you tick all the boxes but still don't get the promotion - and why that might actually be the best thing that could happen to you.

What you'll learn:

• The Readiness Reality Check: How to get honest feedback about where you stand and what a "10 out of 10" performance actually looks like
• The Promotion Conversation Reframe: Why you should never use the word "promotion" and what to say instead to get results
• The Trust Factor: Why promotions go to the most trusted person, not the loudest, and four quiet ways to build your reputation
• The Sponsor vs Mentor Distinction: Understanding the difference and why having a sponsor is crucial for career acceleration
• The Rejection Recovery Plan: Four strategic experiments to try when you don't get the promotion (that set you up for success either way)

Our new BIZ hosts are Lisa Lie - a former Head of People & Culture and Organisational Coach - and Mamamia’s Em Vernem.

Learna is Lisa’s microlearning app for practical people skills at work. Expert-led lessons to build confidence, solve challenges, and work smarter - in under 7 minutes. Get it on Apple or Google Play.

Sign up to the BIZ newsletter here

Listen to more BIZ here.

THE END BITS
Support independent women's media.
Got a work life dilemma? Send us all the questions you definitely can't ask your boss for our Biz Inbox episodes - send us a voice note or email us at [email protected]. You can remain anon! 

HOSTS: Lisa Lie and Em Vernem
SENIOR PRODUCER: Sophie Campbell
AUDIO PRODUCER: Leah Porges

Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.

https://www.mamamia.com.au/mplus/: https://www.mamamia.com.au/

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This summer we're curating your playlist with some of our favourite episodes of BIZ - our podcast that gets your work life sorted!

Ever wondered why we reveal the secret weapon for decoding those frustrating moments when you and your colleagues seem to be speaking completely different languages.

Ever wondered why that one colleague drives you absolutely mental while another person finds them perfectly reasonable?

Discover the four distinct working styles that explain why some people obsess over tiny details while others just want to "get it done," and why the golden rule of "treat others how you want to be treated" might actually be sabotaging your work relationships.

You'll learn:
- How to instantly identify whether someone is a D, I, S, or C style (and what your own default mode is)
- The exact one-liners to use with each personality type to get better results
- Why your "difficult" colleague might not be difficult at all – just wired differently
- How to explain your own working style without sounding like you're making excuses

You’ll finish this ep knowing exactly why your DISC profile is the difference between friction and flow in any workplace.
Whether you're managing a team or just trying to better navigate office politics, these insights will transform how you approach workplace communication.

Resources That Actually Work: 

Surrounded By Idiots.
Do your own DISC test.

Our new BIZ hosts are Lisa Lie - a former Head of People & Culture and Organisational Coach - and Mamamia’s Em Vernem.
Learna is Lisa’s microlearning app for practical people skills at work. Expert-led lessons to build confidence, solve challenges, and work smarter - in under 7 minutes. Get it on Apple or Google Play.
Here’s her special on How To Get Along With Anyone With Lisa Lie

Sign up to the BIZ newsletter here

You might be interested in our episodes on:
How To Talk So People Listen To You
How To Be More Productive (Without Trying Too Hard)
Time Blocking Doesn't Work (Until You Do It Right)
How To Ask For More Money (Without Dying From Awkwardness)

THE END BITS
Support independent women's media.
Got a work life dilemma? Send us all the questions you definitely can't ask your boss for our Biz Inbox episodes - send us a voice note or email us at [email protected]. You can remain anon!

HOSTS: Lisa Lie and Em Vernem
EXEC PRODUCER: Sophie Campbell
AUDIO PRODUCER: Leah Porges

Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.

 

https://www.mamamia.com.au/mplus/: https://www.mamamia.com.au/

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This summer we're curating your playlist with some of our favourite episodes of BIZ - our podcast that gets your work life sorted!

Do you feel guilty for taking breaks? Put work ahead of your relationships? Ignore your health in the name of productivity? You might be stuck in workaholic mode without even realising it! 

Meet your new BIZ hosts: Lisa Lie (former Head of People & Culture who worked herself into burnout twice in one year) and Em Vernem (Associate Editor at Mamamia who discovered that giving 80% at work prevents the burnout that comes from constantly operating at 100%). They've been trapped in the cycle, escaped it, and now they're exposing the workaholic trap that's keeping high-achievers burning out—even when they love what they do.

You'll learn: 

• The signs you're already caught in the cycle
• Where workaholic tendencies actually come from (hint: it's not what you think)
• How the workaholic trap sabotages your daily life without you noticing
• Why that promotion might be making everything worse

PLUS we take the University of Bergen’s 7-point Workaholism Test (finally, a way to tell the difference between working hard and working too hard), and chat the exact steps Lisa took to escape the workaholic cycle for good!

Resources That Actually Work:

Jane Martino, Co-Founder of Smiling Mind and Coach at Kintsugi Way 

Mamamia's Well Burnout Episode: Is It Burnout Or Am I Just Really Tired?

7 Signs You May Be A Workaholic

The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide To Personal Freedom'by Don Miguel Ruiz

Less Hustle, More Happy by Claire Seeber

Our new BIZ hosts are Lisa Lie - a former Head of People & Culture and Organisational Coach - and Mamamia’s Em Vernem.

Learna is Lisa’s microlearning app for practical people skills at work. Expert-led lessons to build confidence, solve challenges, and work smarter - in under 7 minutes. Get it on Apple or Google Play.

Sign up to the BIZ newsletter here

THE END BITS
Support independent women's media.
Got a work life dilemma? Send us all the questions you definitely can't ask your boss for our Biz Inbox episodes - send us a voice note or email us at [email protected]. You can remain anon!

HOSTS: Lisa Lie and Em Vernem
SENIOR PRODUCER: Sophie Campbell
AUDIO PRODUCER: Leah Porges

Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.

https://www.mamamia.com.au/mplus/: https://www.mamamia.com.au/

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This summer we're curating your playlist with some of our favourite episodes of BIZ - our podcast that gets your work life sorted!

Let's be honest...waiting until you feel "ready" to make a career move is like waiting for the perfect weather to start exercising. It's never going to happen, and meanwhile, everyone else is getting ahead. This week, we're diving deep into why learning isn't just nice-to-have anymore - it's career insurance. Our guest Andrea Clark has spent her career helping people adapt fast, and she doesn't believe in waiting until you're ready to grow.

From recognizing when that "mutual value exchange" with your employer has run its course, to spotting signals of change before they become obvious to everyone else. We explore why Andrea invested $3,000 in an AI course back in 2017 (spoiler: it paid off massively) and tackle the biggest blocker to career growth - thinking you need to feel 100% confident before taking action.

What you'll learn:

• The "mutual value exchange" test to know when it's time to move on

• How to spot signals of change 5 years before your industry

• Micro-learning strategies for busy people who think they don't have time

• Why courage brings clarity and how to turn experiments into evidence

• How to align your learning goals with where your business is heading in 2030

Resources:

• Future Fit: How To Stay Relevant And Competitive In The Future Of Work by Andrea Clarke
• Adapt: Mastering change in four steps by Andrea Clarke

Our BIZ hosts are Lisa Lie - a former Head of People & Culture and Organisational Coach - and Mamamia’s Em Vernem.

Learna is Lisa’s microlearning app for practical people skills at work. Expert-led lessons to build confidence, solve challenges, and work smarter - in under 7 minutes. Get it on Apple or Google Play.

Sign up to the BIZ newsletter here
Listen to more BIZ here.

THE END BITS
Support independent women's media.
Got a work life dilemma? Send us all the questions you definitely can't ask your boss for our Biz Inbox episodes - send us a voice note or email us at [email protected]. You can remain anon! 

HOSTS: Lisa Lie and Em Vernem

GUEST: Andrea Clarke

SENIOR PRODUCER: Sophie Campbell
AUDIO PRODUCER: Leah Porges

Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.

https://www.mamamia.com.au/mplus/: https://www.mamamia.com.au/

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This summer we're curating your playlist with some of our favourite episodes of BIZ - our podcast that gets your work life sorted!

Jefferson Fisher (whose revolutionary communication strategies have generated over 1 billion impressions worldwide) returns to reveal his most powerful techniques for the scenarios that make even the most confident professionals stumble. 
No vague advice—just specific phrases you can use immediately that transform how colleagues perceive your competence and authority.

Learn his brilliantly simple "conversational breath" technique that helps you appear more thoughtful and authoritative in any meeting, plus the powerful three-word phrase that lets you disagree with anyone—even your boss—without creating conflict.

Listening to this episode will teach you:
- A foolproof method for connecting with intimidating senior leaders
- The exact phrase that lets you acknowledge your emotions without losing control of difficult conversations
- How to stop your over-explaining habit that's undermining your authority
- A three-word phrase that makes you sound instantly more confident in any situation

We are obsessed with Jefferson’s book ‘The Next Conversation’ which you need to buy here. You can also listen to the audiobook read by Jefferson on Audible or Spotify.

Jefferson has over 10 million followers and 500 million views on socials, follow him on insta or tiktok.
Sign up to the BIZ newsletter here

You might be interested in our episodes on:
How To Talk So People Listen To You
How To Be More Productive (Without Trying Too Hard)
Time Blocking Doesn't Work (Until You Do It Right)
How To Ask For More Money (Without Dying From Awkwardness)

THE END BITS
Support independent women's media.

Follow the Biz Instagram, Michelle’s startup Sunroom and Soph’s career coaching business Workbaby.

Got a work life dilemma? Send us all the questions you definitely can't ask your boss for our Biz Inbox episodes - send us a voice note or email us at [email protected]. You can remain anon!

HOSTS: Michelle Battersby, Soph Hirst and Em Vernem
EXEC PRODUCER: Georgie Page and Sophie Campbell.
AUDIO PRODUCER: Leah Porges

Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.

https://www.mamamia.com.au/mplus/: https://www.mamamia.com.au/

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This summer we're curating your playlist with some of our favourite episodes of BIZ - our podcast that gets your work life sorted!

'Lucky Girl Energy' isn't just a TikTok trend - it's backed by actual science and quantum physics! 

We explore why your thoughts have far more power than you realize, and how to harness this energy to transform your career trajectory. Plus, learn why being stuck in a work rut might be more fixable than you think, with practical tools you can implement today.

Plus the fabulous Victoria Song, author of the Wall Street Journal bestseller ‘Bending Reality’, teaches us her technique for shifting from career frustration to magnetic success. You can find out more about Victoria’s incredible course here.

You might be interested in our episodes on:
How To Talk So People Listen To You
How To Be More Productive (Without Trying Too Hard)
Time Blocking Doesn't Work (Until You Do It Right)
How To Ask For More Money (Without Dying From Awkwardness)

THE END BITS
Support independent women's media.

Follow the Biz Instagram, Michelle’s startup Sunroom and Soph’s career coaching business Workbaby.

Got a work life dilemma? Send us all the questions you definitely can't ask your boss for our Biz Inbox episodes - send us a voice note or email us at [email protected]. You can remain anon!

HOSTS: Michelle Battersby, Soph Hirst and Em Vernem
EXEC PRODUCER: Georgie Page and Sophie Campbell.
AUDIO PRODUCER: Leah Porges

Mamamia's studios are furnished with thanks to Fenton & Fenton. For more head to their website here.

Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.

https://www.mamamia.com.au/mplus/: https://www.mamamia.com.au/

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This summer we're curating your playlist with some of our favourite episodes of BIZ - our podcast that gets your work life sorted!

Michelle Battersby and Soph Hirst reveal their all-time favourite work hacks that have made the biggest difference in their careers.
We've gathered game-changing shortcuts from global experts including professors from Yale and NYU, tech founders, and productivity gurus.

You will learn:
- how to make networking genuinely enjoyable (even if you're an introvert)
- why goal-setting might actually be holding you back
- how to redesign your physical environment for maximum productivity
- the keyboard shortcut strategy that could save you hours every week

Plus special guest, productivity guru Amantha Imber (who has interviewed every major work expert on the planet) shares her top eight genius shortcuts that you can implement immediately.

Learn more about Amantha’s company Inventium, listen to her brilliant How I Work podcast or follow Amantha on LinkedIn.

Sign up to the BIZ newsletter here

Here is the Mamamia Out Loud episode that inspired this one!

You might be interested in our episodes on:
How To Talk So People Listen To You
How To Be More Productive (Without Trying Too Hard)
Time Blocking Doesn't Work (Until You Do It Right)
How To Ask For More Money (Without Dying From Awkwardness)

THE END BITS
Support independent women's media.

Follow the Biz Instagram, Michelle’s startup Sunroom and Soph’s career coaching business Workbaby.

Got a work life dilemma? Send us all the questions you definitely can't ask your boss for our Biz Inbox episodes - send us a voice note or email us at [email protected]. You can remain anon!

HOSTS: Michelle Battersby, Soph Hirst and Em Vernem
EXEC PRODUCER: Georgie Page and Sophie Campbell.
AUDIO PRODUCER: Leah Porges

Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.

https://www.mamamia.com.au/mplus/: https://www.mamamia.com.au/

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This summer we're curating your playlist with some of our favourite episodes of BIZ - our podcast that gets your work life sorted!

Ever felt that full-body cringe when someone suggests "let's network"? You're not alone. 
In this episode of BIZ, career powerhouses Michelle Battersby and Soph Hirst completely redefine networking for people who hate networking. Michelle reveals how she flipped the script with her genius "Anti-Network" events, while Soph shares how she built one of tech's most valuable professional networks... from a gutter (yes, really).

Get their exact scripts for cold LinkedIn outreach that won't make you die inside, learn exactly where to stand at a networking event so you don’t waste your time, and discover which networking style actually works for your personality.

Sign up to the BIZ newsletter here

You might be interested in our episodes on:
How To Talk So People Listen To You
How To Be More Productive (Without Trying Too Hard)
Time Blocking Doesn't Work (Until You Do It Right)
How To Ask For More Money (Without Dying From Awkwardness)

THE END BITS
Support independent women's media.

Follow the Biz Instagram, Michelle’s startup Sunroom and Soph’s career coaching business Workbaby.

Got a work life dilemma? Send us all the questions you definitely can't ask your boss for our Biz Inbox episodes - send us a voice note or email us at [email protected]. You can remain anon!

HOSTS: Michelle Battersby, Soph Hirst and Em Vernem
EXEC PRODUCER: Georgie Page
AUDIO PRODUCER: Leah Porges

Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.

https://www.mamamia.com.au/mplus/: https://www.mamamia.com.au/

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This summer we're curating your playlist with some of our favourite episodes of BIZ - our podcast that gets your work life sorted!

Whether you're looking to earn extra cash or dream of quitting your day job, this conversation delivers the practical blueprint you've been searching for.

We meet creative entrepreneur Georgia Norton Lodge who offers brutally honest advice about what it actually takes to build a sustainable side hustle. She shares the exact steps that helped her transform a $35 product into a $500 one, and how a single email to her database once made her $16,000.

Plus you’ll learn:
- the Venn diagram approach to identifying your perfect side hustle
- six practical steps to get started (even with no time or budget)
- realistic timelines and expectations
- when to know if your side hustle is working (or when to let it go)

Check out Georgia’s courses and workshops, and you can follow her on LinkedIn and Insta.

Sign up to the BIZ newsletter here

You might be interested in our episodes on:
How To Talk So People Listen To You
How To Be More Productive (Without Trying Too Hard)
Time Blocking Doesn't Work (Until You Do It Right)
How To Ask For More Money (Without Dying From Awkwardness)

THE END BITS
Support independent women's media.

Follow the Biz Instagram, Michelle’s startup Sunroom and Soph’s career coaching business Workbaby.

Got a work life dilemma? Send us all the questions you definitely can't ask your boss for our Biz Inbox episodes - send us a voice note or email us at [email protected]. You can remain anon!

HOSTS: Michelle Battersby, Soph Hirst and Em Vernem
EXEC PRODUCER: Georgie Page
AUDIO PRODUCER: Leah Porges

Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.

https://www.mamamia.com.au/mplus/: https://www.mamamia.com.au/

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.