Before Ava DuVernay became the first Black woman director to win Sundance and get nominated for Best Picture at the Oscars, she was a publicist with a little hobby, a big dream, and a lot of patience. Adam talks to Ava about how she turned her side gig of filmmaking into a brilliant career, how her leadership style has evolved over the years, and what studying MLK while making the movie Selma can teach us about what it really takes to inspire.

For the full text transcript, visit go.ted.com/T4G29

For the full text transcript, visit ted.com/podcasts/rethinking-with-adam-grant-transcripts

ReThinking is produced by Cosmic Standard. Our Senior Producer is Jessica Glazer, our Engineer is Aja Simpson, our Technical Director is Jacob Winik, and our Executive Producer is Eliza Smith.

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