Christianity After Deconstruction: Cabernet and Pray

By Jeremy Jernigan, Christian Deconstruction PastorSociety & Culture Religion & Spirituality Christianity Arts Philosophy Food

Christianity After Deconstruction: Cabernet and Pray episodes

February 24, 2025#41: Why Christianity is Unfair
Is karma real? Or does Jesus operate in a way that turns our sense of fairness upside down? In this episode, we dive into one of Jesus’ most radical parables from Matthew 20, exploring why fairness might not be the point—and why that’s actually good news. Grab a glass of wine and join us for a thought-provoking discussion on grace, justice, and what it really means to follow Jesus.
Click here to watch the episode on video.
Featured Wine:
🍷 Destino Red Blend (2019) – Fifth Empire, Portugal
A rich and dark blend featuring Touriga Nacional, known for its bold character.
Notes of plum and blueberry, balanced with smooth complexity from four different grapes.
Key Discussion Points:
The Myth of Karma vs. Jesus’ Radical Grace: While karma teaches that you get what you deserve, Jesus flips this idea upside down, offering generosity instead of fairness.
The Parable of the Vineyard (Matthew 20): A landowner pays all workers the same wage—whether they worked 12 hours or just one. What does this reveal about God’s character?
Fairness vs. Generosity: How do we react when others receive grace that we feel they don’t deserve?
Jealousy & God's Kindness: Are we bothered when God blesses those we deem "unworthy"?
Personal Reflection: Is Jesus enough for us, or do we need others to "lose" for us to feel like we've won?
Takeaway:
Instead of keeping score, what if we embraced a world where grace, not fairness, defines our faith? Jesus invites us to welcome others into the vineyard—are we celebrating or gatekeeping?
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Cabernet and Pray is an authentic, thoughtfully curated, human-hosted podcast that is free, but not cheap. Please consider supporting the content Jeremy creates by joining the Rebuilding Faith patron community. Find out more here: https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/rebuilding-faith
33 min
February 10, 2025#40: The New Evangelicals (with Tim Whitaker)
Join Jeremy and Tim Whitaker, founder of The New Evangelicals, for an unfiltered and entertaining conversation tackling tough topics in faith, church culture, and beyond—all while sipping on wine. Whether you're wrestling with your faith, navigating church hurt, or just curious about new perspectives, this episode delivers humor, depth, and a lot of honesty. Don’t miss Tim’s unforgettable attempt at opening his first bottle of wine and his bold insights on Christianity today.
Click here to watch the episode on video.
Key Points Covered in Episode 40:
Introduction of Tim Whitaker and The New Evangelicals:
The organization supports those grappling with faith and church hurt.
Focus on creating a safe space for exploring progressive Christianity.
Tagline: “Faith isn’t easy, hurt makes it harder.”
Wine Talk:
Jeremy enjoys a Story of Soil Syrah 2022 with notes of red plum, blueberry, and vanilla bean.
Tim hilariously opens his first bottle of wine, Joel Gott 815 Cabernet Sauvignon 2021, adding an unplanned comedy segment.
Tim’s Faith Journey:
From a conservative evangelical upbringing to a more inclusive, justice-focused Christianity.
Critiques of political entanglements in modern evangelicalism.
Emphasis on expanding one’s faith perspective beyond denominational boundaries.
Advocating for the Marginalized:
Discussions on supporting LGBTQ+ individuals, immigrants, and other underrepresented groups within and outside the church.
The pitfalls of using theology to oppress rather than liberate.
Engaging with the Bible:
Tim’s shift from viewing the Bible as a rulebook to embracing it as a complex, nuanced collection of writings.
Encouragement to focus on Jesus’ teachings of love, justice, and inclusion.
Parenting and Faith:
Should kids be raised in the same traditional church settings their parents left?
Tim argues for raising children with openness and curiosity rather than indoctrination.
Criticism and Accountability in the Church:
Challenges of holding leaders and institutions accountable while staying hopeful.
The role of Christians in advocating for justice and resisting harmful ideologies like Christian nationalism.
Tim’s Take on Digital Content Creation:
Balancing fast-paced news reactions with thoughtful analysis.
Addressing negativity from critics while staying grounded.
Lightning Round Questions:
Tim’s past belief he was wrong about: thinking LGBTQ+ people were inherently sinful.
Main issue facing American Christianity: the rise of Christian nationalism.
This episode is perfect for anyone exploring new ways to engage with their faith or questioning traditional church teachings. Tim’s candidness, combined with his humor and passion, makes this an unforgettable conversation. Grab a glass of wine and join the ride!
Links:
https://www.thenewevangelicals.com/
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-new-evangelicals-podcast/id1557794865
https://www.instagram.com/thenewevangelicals/
https://open.spotify.com/show/1czIuPbjXFt50L2fxHmdUe
https://www.tiktok.com/@thenewevangelicals
https://www.instagram.com/timwhitakerspeaks/
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Do you want to read the Bible without falling behind? Sign up your email and I'll send you a PDF to download and use my custom-made reading plan system. There's no way to fall behind on this system and every day will be different no matter how long you use it! https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/opt-in
Cabernet and Pray is an authentic, thoughtfully curated, human-hosted podcast that is free, but not cheap. Please consider supporting the content Jeremy creates by joining the Rebuilding Faith patron community. Find out more here: https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/rebuilding-faith
1 hr 3 min
January 27, 2025#39: The Worst Chapter in the Bible
What happens when the God of the Old Testament seems unrecognizable next to the Jesus of the New Testament? In this thought-provoking episode of Cabernet and Pray, we tackle what Jeremy calls “the worst chapter in the Bible,” Numbers 31. Together, we confront the shocking themes of revenge, violence, and divine commands that seem incompatible with the love of Jesus. With a glass of Sokol Blosser 2021 Pinot Noir in hand, we explore how ancient contexts and human perceptions of God shape scripture—and what this means for our faith today. Don’t miss this deep dive into the Bible’s most challenging narratives.
Click here to watch the episode on video.
Wines Featured:
Sokol Blosser 2021 Watershed Block Pinot Noir
Notes of potting soil, dried leaves, cranberry, raspberry, and clove. A perfect pairing for deep conversations about theology.
Key Discussion Points:
Introduction to Numbers 31:
Jeremy reflects on the challenges faced as a pastor in interpreting the Old Testament.
Focus on Numbers 31: a chapter filled with revenge, violence, and troubling divine commands.
A Brutal Look at Numbers 31:
God commands Moses to wage a war of revenge against the Midianites.
Controversial instructions to kill men, women, and boys, sparing only virgin girls, presented as plunder.
The unsettling notion of 32 virgins being allocated as God’s share of the spoils.
Reconciling Numbers 31 with the Nature of Jesus:
The difficulty of aligning Numbers 31 with the nonviolent, sacrificial love exemplified by Jesus.
Examples of misinterpretation: Justifying actions like the Crusades by blending Old Testament violence with Christian theology.
Historical and Cultural Context:
Insights from early church father Origen: When a passage seems unworthy of God, seek deeper spiritual meaning.
Greg Boyd’s Cross Vision: God’s willingness to meet people in their context, even when their understanding is limited.
Andy Stanley’s Irresistible: The importance of unhitching modern faith from Old Testament practices and covenantal frameworks.
A Framework for Interpretation:
Jesus as the clearest image of God: “What God looks like when there are no clouds in the way.”
Viewing problematic Old Testament passages as reflections of human culture and sin, not divine character.
Takeaways for Faith:
Christians don’t need to fear difficult scriptures but must read them through the lens of Jesus.
Numbers 31 reveals more about ancient Israelites’ worldview than about God’s true nature.
The Bible’s ultimate purpose is to point us to Jesus, the unclouded vision of God.
Jeremy leaves listeners with the challenge to dig deeper into scripture, trusting that a clearer picture of God emerges through Jesus. Christians can engage with difficult passages and grow a faith rooted in love, humility, and understanding.
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Do you want to read the Bible without falling behind? Sign up your email and I'll send you a PDF to download and use my custom-made reading plan system. There's no way to fall behind on this system and every day will be different no matter how long you use it! https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/opt-in
Cabernet and Pray is an authentic, thoughtfully curated, human-hosted podcast that is free, but not cheap. Please consider supporting the content Jeremy creates by joining the Rebuilding Faith patron community. Find out more here: https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/rebuilding-faith
31 min
January 13, 2025#38: Loving Jesus Too Much
Can you love Jesus so much that it leaves others feeling unloved? In this episode of Cabernet and Pray, we unpack a poignant quote from A.W. Tozer’s widow that has sparked a surprising amount of debate among Christians. Join us as we dive into what it truly means to balance a love for God with a love for others, all while sipping on a gorgeous 2021 Archers Crest Pinot Noir. This episode will surely challenge your perspective on faith, relationships, and how we express our devotion.
Click here to watch the episode on video.
Key Points
Event Reminder:
The Wine and Whiskey Weekend is February 21–23 in Oregon, featuring tastings and deep conversations about life and faith. Find out more here: https://communionwineco.com/events/wine-and-whiskey/
The A.W. Tozer Debate:
Tozer’s widow, Ada, famously stated: “Aiden [Tozer] loved Jesus Christ, but Leonard Odom loves me.” This comment sparks questions about whether a strong love for Jesus can coexist with loving others deeply.
Tozer’s writings emphasized the centrality of God, yet his personal relationships provide a complex lens for understanding how faith and love intersect.
Key Biblical Insights:
Matthew 22:36-39: Jesus teaches that loving God and loving others are equally important.
Matthew 25: Acts of love toward others are acts of love toward Jesus.
Luke 14:26: Jesus uses hyperbole to stress prioritizing God but not at the expense of failing to love others.
Listener Reactions:
Varied and passionate responses to the original video included victim-shaming Ada, misinterpretations of biblical texts, and defenses of Tozer’s priorities.
Highlights the broader issue of separating love for Jesus from love for people, a dichotomy that the episode argues is unbiblical.
Wine Feature:
2021 Archers Crest Pinot Noir from Archery Summit in Oregon.
Notes of cranberry, raspberry, clove, and mushroom make this refreshing red a perfect pairing for deep conversation.
The Challenge:
Loving Jesus means seeing Him in those around us, including our spouses, neighbors, and even adversaries.
Can you truly love God without loving people? This episode pushes listeners to evaluate their own faith practices.
Call to Action:
Pour yourself a glass of wine and reflect on how your love for God translates into love for others. Join us for this candid discussion that blends theology, wine appreciation, and a fresh take on what it means to live out your faith. Cheers to loving well!
34 min
December 30, 2024#37: Church in the Brewery (with Mark McKinney)
Click here to watch the episode on video.
In this episode, we explore the creative expressions of the church with Mark McKinney, an innovator who is challenging traditional church structures. We dive into the unpredictability of faith journeys, the critical need for true discipleship in modern Christianity, and the fascinating intersection of faith and technology.
Mark shares his experiences leading Reunion, a trauma-informed church in a brewery, and reflects on the importance of serving communities authentically. We explore themes of flexibility, adaptation, and humility in ministry, highlighting how unconventional spaces and approaches can foster genuine connections and support for those often overlooked by traditional church settings.
Tune in for an inspiring discussion about reimagining church, community engagement, and nurturing a culture of inclusivity and healing. Whether you're a church leader, believer, or someone curious about innovative faith practices, this episode will surely offer thought-provoking insights and encouragement.
Wines in this episode:
2022 Black Cloud
2022 Juggernaut
Links:
Reunion's church website
Mark on Instagram
1 hr 11 min
December 16, 2024#36: Star-Spangled Jesus (with April Ajoy)
Click here to watch the episode on video.
Today we're diving deep into the complexities of faith, politics, and personal transformation with our guest, April Ajoy. April, an author and content creator known for her book "Star Spangled Jesus: Leaving Christian Nationalism and Finding a True Faith," joins us to unpack the deconstruction movement among white evangelicals questioning their support for Trump, especially post-2020 pandemic.
In this episode, April shares her journey from promoting Christian nationalism to fostering a more inclusive spirituality. We'll discuss the potential impact of another Trump presidency on evangelical communities, the rising need for supportive spaces for those exiting these conservative circles, and how April uses her past experiences to challenge harmful beliefs without alienation.
We'll also touch on the contradictions within Christian nationalism, the challenges of patriarchy and misogyny in theology, and the transformative power of engaging with differing beliefs. April shares personal anecdotes, including her enlightening experiences with her children's faith education and the humorous beginnings of her wine-tasting adventures.
Wines in this episode:
2016 Clos Floridene
Peach white wine
Links:
April's book
April's Instagram
April's TikTok
April's Threads
1 hr 6 min
December 02, 2024 #35: The Wicked Servant
Click here to watch the episode on video.
Interested in staying in one of our short-term rentals in wine country? Click here to see our two homes.
In today's episode, Jeremy shares some exciting personal updates, including the opening of a second rental property in Oregon wine country, the charmingly named "Vino Victorian." But the core of today's episode dives into a profound and possibly controversial re-examination of a familiar Biblical story from Luke 19: the tale of the wicked servant.
Jeremy challenges traditional parable interpretations, suggesting we're not seeing the whole picture. What if the character we've always viewed as "wicked" represents a more Christ-like stance? Join Jeremy as he unpacks this compelling perspective, drawing intriguing connections to Jesus's teachings and inviting listeners to see this parable in a new light. Whether navigating today's tumultuous world or seeking deeper spiritual insights, this episode promises to offer fresh, thought-provoking content. So grab a glass of something rich and flavorful, sit back, and let's dive into another episode of "Cabernet and Pray."
Wine in this episode: 2019 Quinta Das Carvalhas from Duoro, Portugal
29 min
November 18, 2024#34: American Idolatry (with Andrew Whitehead)
Click here to watch the episode on video.
We're thrilled to have Andrew Whitehead, an esteemed professor of sociology and author of "American Idolatry: How Christian Nationalism Betrays the Gospel and Threatens the Church."
In this episode, we dive into the complex world of Christian nationalism in America through Andrew's insightful lens. We explore the idea that changing minds often requires more than cold, hard facts; it demands empathy, asking the right questions, and building genuine relationships. Andrew shares personal reflections on America's history, scrutinizing the narrative of it being a "Christian nation" in light of its checkered past.
We'll touch upon the provocative "inverted golden rule," navigating echo chambers, and the tension between disengagement and necessary political advocacy. You'll also hear thought-provoking discussions on how power should be wielded for justice, the importance of listening to marginalized voices, and balancing faithfulness with the often flawed pursuit of efficiency.
We also have some lighter moments, from Andrew's memorable wine experience in Florence, Italy, to enlightening takes on quantum physics and arm wrestling.
Wines in this episode:
2021 Ghost Pines Cabernet
2021 Federalist Cabernet
Links:
American Idolatry
Andrew's Substack
Andrew's Instagram
Andrew's X
1 hr 4 min
November 04, 2024 #33: Space Racism
Click here to watch the episode on video.
Want to join us on a wine and whiskey trip to Oregon? Find out more HERE.
In this episode, we’re diving deep into the fascinating intersection of faith and technology, responding to your comments and critiques about our previous discussion on the ethics of robots. From accusations of irrelevance to insightful parallels with historical exclusion in Christianity, we’re tackling it all.
I address the arrogance and disdain some feel towards robotic sentience and, humorously, whether churches would accept robots if they could contribute financially. We’ll also explore the historical patterns of exclusion in Christianity—particularly towards women and the LGBTQ+ community—drawing from historical events and figures like Augustine.
Our chat will challenge you to reflect on inclusivity in faith, considering whether we could or should extend our understanding of community to future technological beings like robots, clones, or even aliens. Plus, I’ll share some exciting details about an upcoming wine and whiskey trip to Oregon, designed to blend tasting sessions with deep discussions about faith.
So grab a glass of wine, sit back, and let's journey through these provocations and insights together. Are we ready to expand our vision of inclusion, or will we continue to draw lines in the sand?
Wine in this episode: Dolce Rosso Lambrusco
36 min
October 21, 2024#32: Tell Me When I Get There (with Sean Palmer)
Click here to watch the episode on video.
Want to join us on a wine and whiskey trip to Oregon? Find out more HERE.
In this episode, Sean Palmer, author and teaching pastor at Ecclesia Houston, invites us on a thought-provoking journey discussing memorable wine experiences, evolving beliefs about wealth, and the pressing challenges facing Christianity in America. Sean reflects on faith, aging, and death in a post-COVID world.
Additionally, we explore the transformative impact of the Enneagram and embrace the importance of individual differences within the church. With engaging anecdotes and profound insights, this episode promises an enriching conversation about life’s transitions, the essence of community, and living thoughtfully in the face of mortality.
Wines in this episode:
2021 Barrelhouse Red Blend
2022 DAOU Cabernet Sauvignon
Links:
Sean's book Speaking by the Numbers
Sean's book Unarmed Empire
Sean on Instagram
Sean's website
1 hr 2 min

About Christianity After Deconstruction: Cabernet and Pray

From the publisher's feed

Cabernet and Pray is a podcast for people who still have questions about Jesus but have complicated feelings about the church and Christianity. Hosted by Jeremy Jernigan (a recovering megachurch pastor), each episode pairs a glass of wine with honest conversations about the Bible, deconstruction, reconstruction, and what it means to explore faith outside of the boundaries of the theological mainstream. If you've ever felt like your doubts disqualified you, or you've wondered whether there's a version of Christianity that can hold your questions without flinching, then you've found your people.