It's almost hard to label Garrett because he has done so much. He's been a coach at Team ABC. He's been a routesetter for gyms and for international competitions. He was one of the setters at the Tokyo Olympics, and so he's become this wealth of experience and wisdom as it pertains to, not only the evolution of routesetting, but also just the evolution of the climbing industry. We get into all of that in this episode. We talk about the increase in professionalization that Garrett has noticed and some strides that maybe still need to be made in the industry. Our host is John Burgman with sound editing by Devin Dabney, and sponsors EP Climbing and Kilter.