Coaching for Leaders

Edith Eger: The Choice

Edith Eger is one of the few living Holocaust survivors to remember the horrors of the camps. Today, at 90 years old, Edie is a renowned psychologist and speaker who specializes in treating patients with traumatic stress disorders. She is author of the The Choice: Embrace the Possible*.

Key Points

It’s not what happens in life, it’s what we do with it.

The power we have is to choose to respond, not react.

Sometimes seemingly insignificant worries are emblematic of greater pain.

If you hate a person, they don’t suffer — you do. There’s nothing wrong with anger, it’s how you channel it.

Underneath anger is a lot of pain.

Resources Mentioned

The Choice: Embrace the Possible* by Edith Eger

Man’s Search for Meaning* by Viktor E. Frankl

Interview Notes

Download my highlights from The Choice in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

Sin by Silence, with Olivia Klaus (episode 103)

Things Mentally Strong People Don’t Do, with Amy Morin (episode 204)

How to Overcome Obstacles, with Collins Osayamwen (episode 281)

Growth Mindset Helps You Rise From the Ashes, with Jeff Hittenberger (episode 326)

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Allan McDonald: Truth, Lies, and O-Rings

Allan J. McDonald retired as vice president and technical director for advanced technology programs at ATK Thiokol Propulsion in 2001. He was the director of the Space Shuttle Solid Rocket Motor Project at the time of the Challenger accident and, later, vice president of engineering for space operations during the redesign and requalification of the solid rocket motors. Al passed away in 2021.

Al was the one person who officially refused to sign off on Challenger's launch on January 28, 1986. His concerns for the launch conditions were ultimately overridden by his boss. He would eventually testify to the Rogers Commission which had major implications for their findings. Later in life, he spoke to audiences all over the world on ethics and decision-making. He's the author with James Hansen of Truth, Lies, and O-Rings: Inside the Space Shuttle Challenger Disaster*.

In this conversation, Al shared the details of the conversation between NASA and Morton Thiokol the evening prior to the launch. He also detailed what happened after the accident and his extraordinary decision to interrupt NASA's testimony to the Rogers Commission. He also shared a key message on why it still matters, all these years later.

Key Points

As director of the solid rocket motor project, Al McDonald refused to sign off on the launch, concerned that launch weather conditions were unsafe.

Despite almost perfectly predicting the accident, Al himself was initially unconvinced that the solid rocket motors were the cause, believing the shuttle would have exploded on the pad had that been the case.

When it appeared that NASA officials weren't being fully transparent about the events leading up to the accident, Al interrupted their testimony to the Rogers Commission, a move he fully expected would end his career.

Al was effectively demoted after his testimony. Congress ultimately intervened with a law that would have ended his organization's government contract, unless they reinstated his prior position. He's the only individual in American history to be restored to his job by an act of Congress.

It's your responsibility as a professional to have an opinion and to speak up. Don’t assume that other people will always do their job.

Resources Mentioned

Remembering Allan McDonald: He Refused To Approve Challenger Launch, Exposed Cover-Up by NPR

Major Malfunction: Revisiting Challenger by The New York Times

Related Episodes

How to Deal with Opponents and Adversaries, with Peter Block(episode 328)

The Way to Make Better Decisions, with Annie Duke (episode 499)

The Way Out of Major Conflict, with Amanda Ripley (episode 529)

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Robert “Cujo” Teschner: Debrief to Win

Robert “Cujo” Teschner is a retired F-15 / F-22 fighter pilot. He is also a former F-15 Weapons School Instructor, F-22 Squadron Commander, senior Joint Staff officer, and combat veteran. He holds advanced degrees in Operational Art and Science and National Security Strategy and has extensive experience in tactical planning and execution, and organizational leadership. From 2004 to 2006, he served as the US Air Force’s expert in post-mission debriefing, the methodology used by high-performing military teams to self-correct and improve continuously.

Cujo retired immediately after his promotion to full Colonel due to complications from cancer-related care and started an international business consulting practice based in St. Louis, MO. His company is called VMax Group. VMax Group’s mission is to teach, inspire, and nurture teams on how to really “team”, making work more fulfilling, and making teams much more effective. He is the author of Debrief to Win: How America's Top Guns Practice Accountable Leadership...and How You Can, Too!*

Many of us recognize we could get better at reflecting on our team’s work, but we rarely get beyond what went well and what didn’t. One of the best ways to stop making the same mistakes is to look at the truth of what’s already happened, and learn from it. In this conversation, Cujo and I look at the value of a debrief and how to bring that practice into your organization.

Key Points

Saying, “We learned a lot of important lessons today,” doesn’t actually prove that any learning has happened.

The context of military and civilian debriefs are both different, but the stakes are still high in both venues.

A debrief is not about blame or shame. Instead, it’s an affirming, positive experience that builds future leaders.

A key benefit of regular debriefs is to institutionalize the process of challenging conversations. Psychological safety is critical for this to happen well.

Objectives should be measurable, achievable, and time-constrained. Debriefs should focus on the objectives and the decisions that were made to meet those objectives.

Be cautious about outsourcing debriefing to external facilitators. An effective debrief should be led by someone who has participated in the mission or project.

Resources Mentioned

Debrief to Win: How America's Top Guns Practice Accountable Leadership...and How You Can, Too! by Robert “Cujo” Teschner

Robert “Cujo” Teschner’s website

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

Five Steps to Hold People Accountable, with Jonathan Raymond (episode 306)

How to Build Psychological Safety, with Amy Edmondson (episode 404)

The Way to Make Better Decisions, with Annie Duke (episode 499)

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Jen Byyny

Jen Byyny is a senior director of product design in health-tech and a graduate of the Coaching for Leaders Academy. In this conversation, Jen and I discuss how to handle change in your career when things keep shifting around you.

Key Points

It’s about people, not product. When lots of change is happening, come back to relationships and communication.

Pay attention to the people who support you and the ones you look forward to working with. They will be your champions through whatever happens.

Provide space for grace during times of change. Others need it as much as you do.

It’s helpful to have people in your corner who are pulling for you but who are not tied to the politics or emotion of the situation.

Related Episodes

The Power of Weak Connections, with David Burkus (episode 347)

How to Win the Long Game When the Short-Term Seems Bleak, with Dorie Clark (episode 550)

How to Quit Bad Stuff Faster, with Annie Duke (episode 607)

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Frances Frei: Move Fast & Fix Things

Frances Frei is a professor at Harvard Business School. Her research investigates how leaders create the context for organizations and individuals to thrive by designing for excellence in strategy, operations, and culture. She regularly works with companies embarking on large-scale change and organizational transformation, including embracing diversity and inclusion as a lever for improved performance. In 2017, Frances served as Uber’s first senior vice president of leadership and strategy to help the company navigate its very public crisis in leadership and culture.

Her partner Anne Morriss and her are the authors of Uncommon Service and The Unapologetic Leader’s Guide to Empowering Everyone Around You. They are also hosts of Fixable, a leadership advice podcast from the TED Audio Collective, and they are recognized by Thinkers50 as among the world’s most influential business thinkers. Their newest book is Move Fast & Fix Things: The Trusted Leader's Guide to Solving Hard Problems*.

A lot of us assume that going fast is reckless. There are certainly times when that’s the case, but it’s also true that leaders going too slow at the wrong time can make things worse. In this conversation, Frances and I discuss how to do a better job of moving quickly when it’s time to address the toughest problems.

Key Points

Many of us believe that going fast is reckless and going slow is righteous. While there are times that is true, there are many examples where it’s not.

The fastest way to speed up your company is to empower more people to make more decisions.

Dare to be bad at something. Deciding what not to address allows you to go faster at what you’re best at.

Two key elements of completing work are work-in-progress and cycle time. Most leaders address cycle time first and miss the more substantial work-in-progress opportunities.

Create a way to fast-track projects that become important and build this into the culture of the organization.

Resources Mentioned

Move Fast & Fix Things: The Trusted Leader's Guide to Solving Hard Problems by Frances Frei and Anne Morriss

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

The Way to Turn Followers Into Leaders, with David Marquet (episode 241)

How to Solve the Toughest Problems, with Wendy Smith (episode 612)

How to Approach a Reorg, with Claire Hughes Johnson (episode 621)

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David Burkus: Best Team Ever!

David Burkus is the bestselling author of four books about business and leadership which have won multiple awards and been translated into dozens of languages. His insights on leadership and teamwork have been featured in the Wall Street Journal, Harvard Business Review, USAToday, Fast Company, the Financial Times, and many other media outlets.

Since 2017, David has been ranked multiple times as one of the world’s top business thought leaders. As a sought-after international speaker, his TED Talk has been viewed over two million times. He has worked with leaders from organizations across all industries, including PepsiCo, Fidelity, Clorox, Adobe, and NASA. He's the author of Best Team Ever!: The Surprising Science of High-Performing Teams*.

There are many things that help teams work well together, but perhaps you haven’t thought of this one: clarity. Knowing what is being done and who’s doing it often helps a team achieve more. In this conversation, David and I discuss the practical steps to surface more clarity and drive better performance.

Key Points

Casting a leadership vision is important, but insufficient. It’s not helpful to expect a team to figure out roles and responsibilities on their own.

Teams work best when they understand how each individual works best. Clarity increased performance.

Hold huddles using these three questions: (1) What did I just complete? (2) What am I focused on next? and (3) What is blocking my progress?

Consider communicating in bursts to allow for people to retreat into less interrupted time for deeper work.

Establish priorities and consistently make those priorities clear so they are obvious and apparent to the team.

Resources Mentioned

Best Team Ever!: The Surprising Science of High-Performing Teams* by David Burkus

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

An Astronaut’s Guide to Life On Earth, with Chris Hadfield (episode 149)

How to Make Deep Work Happen, with Cal Newport (episode 233)

How Great Teams Find Purpose, with David Burkus (episode 481)

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Heather Younger: The Art of Active Listening

Heather Younger is an experienced international keynote speaker, best-selling author, CEO, and Founder of Employee Fanatix. Known as The Employee Whisperer, Heather harnesses humor, warmth, and an instant relatability to engage and uplift audiences and inspire them into action.

She is a Certified Diversity Professional, certified in Emotional and Social Intelligence and DiSC, and is also the author of three books. Her previous best-selling book, The Art of Caring Leadership: How Leading with Heart Uplifts Teams and Organizations, was praised for offering powerful insights for developing authentic, thoughtful, and purposeful leaders and change-makers. She's the author of The Art of Active Listening: How People at Work Feel Heard, Valued, and Understood*.

When you know how to listen, people will share more. We may or may not always be able to resolve every concern, but we can be sure others are heard. In this conversation, Heather and I discuss how we can shift from listening for what we want to hear towards listening for what we need to learn.

Key Points

Some issues can only be resolved through better listening. That alone makes this a critical skill for leaders.

When you know how to listen, people will bring things to you. Listen for not what you want to hear but what you want to learn.

Listening is not just about what’s been said, but also about what is seen. Get beyond simply, “What I hear you saying is…”

Some leaders have a fear about the direction that a response might take a conversation. Remember that often people first and foremost want to be heard, regardless of what happens next.

Nobody is ready to listen at every moment. Taking time to center yourself for a conversation in a few minutes or later in the day can be helpful for both parties.

Resources Mentioned

The Art of Active Listening: How People at Work Feel Heard, Valued, and Understood* by Heather Younger

Art of Active Listening Certification

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

The Way to Have Conversations That Matter, with Celeste Headlee (episode 344)

Four Habits That Derail Listening, with Oscar Trimboli (episode 500)

How to Help Others Be Seen and Heard, with Scott Shigeoka (episode 654)

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Sheila Heen: Difficult Conversations

Sheila Heen is the Thaddeus R. Beal Professor of Practice at Harvard Law School, a Deputy Director of the Harvard Negotiation Project, and a founder of Triad Consulting Group. She often works with executive teams to engage conflict productively, repair working relationships, and implement change in complex organizations.

She has published articles in The New York Times and the Harvard Business Review and appeared on Oprah, CNBC’s Power Lunch, and NPR. She is coauthor along with Douglas Stone of The New York Times bestseller Thanks for the Feedback and also now, in its third edition, co-author with Douglas Stone and Bruce Patton of the iconic bestseller, Difficult Conversations: How to Discuss What Matters Most*.

When our intentions are good, it’s hard to appreciate how we could have had such a negative impact on someone else. It’s equally challenging to navigate a tough conversation when someone else’s words or actions have wronged us, even if that’s not what they intended. In this conversation, Sheila and I discuss how to shift just a bit to help our difficult conversations go better.

Key Points

Intent does not equal impact.

It’s a mistake to assume that we know the other party's intentions.

It’s a mistake to assume that good intentions erase bad impact.

Prevent the first mistake by attempting to separate intent from impact. Use these three questions:

Actions: What did the other person actually say or do?

Impact: What was the impact of this on me?

Assumption: Based on this impact, what assumption am I making about what the other person intended?

To prevent the second mistake, listen first for feelings before sharing intent. It’s helpful also to reflect on your own intent, which may not always be as pure as initially recognized.

Resources Mentioned

Difficult Conversations: How to Discuss What Matters Most* by Douglas Stone, Bruce Patton, and Sheila Heen

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

How to Get Way Better at Accepting Feedback, with Sheila Heen (episode 143)

How to Begin Difficult Conversations About Race, with Kwame Christian (episode 594)

How to Deal With Passive-Aggressive People, Amy Gallo (episode 595)

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Scott Shigeoka: Seek

Scott Shigeoka is an internationally recognized curiosity expert, speaker, and author. He is known for translating research into strategies that promote positive well-being and connected relationships around the globe, including at the UC Berkeley’s Greater Good Science Center and through his popular courses at the University of Texas at Austin.

Scott implements his curiosity practices with leaders in the public sector, Fortune 500 companies, Hollywood, media organizations, education institutions, and small businesses. He is the author of Seek: How Curiosity Can Transform Your Life and Change the World*.

Often we think about curiosity as a way to get information. And yes, it does do that, but there’s a much bigger opportunity that many leaders miss — taking the next step with curiosity to actually help connect better with others. In this episode, Scott and I highlight four phrases that will help you do that better.

Key Points

It’s a mistake to limit the purpose of curiosity to only information gathering. Deep curiosity can be one of the best ways to create connection.

Saying, “I don’t know,” may elicit fear in a lot of us, but leaders who can do this are often perceived and more competent in their work.

The invitation to, “Tell me more,” is a way to respond to a bid from someone for attention that opens to door to feeling seen and heard.

Even if you don’t literally say the words, “I understand that you're more than your job,” making that clear in your conversations helps limit work-life conflict and uncovers better ways to support others.

We tend to have a bias in the workplace for the people who traditionally have the “answers.” Asking, “Who else?” opens the door to surfacing the best ideas, regardless of who they originate with.

Resources Mentioned

Seek: How Curiosity Can Transform Your Life and Change the World* by Scott Shigeoka

4 Phrases That Build a Culture of Curiosity by Scott Shigeoka

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

How to Be Present, with Dave Crenshaw (episode 511)

How to Inspire More Curiosity, with Shannon Minifie (episode 520)

How to Genuinely Show Up for Others, with Marshall Goldsmith (episode 590)

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Adam Bryant: The Leap to Leader

Adam Bryant is Senior Managing Director and Partner at the ExCo Group, where he works with hundreds of senior leaders and high-potential executives. As the creator and former author of the iconic “Corner Office” column in The New York Times, Adam has mastered the art of distilling real-world lessons from his hundreds of interviews and turning them into practical tools, presentations, and exercises to help companies deepen their leadership benches and strengthen their teams.

Adam works with executive leadership teams to help drive their transformation strategies, based on a best-practices framework he developed for his widely praised book, The CEO Test. He's also the author of The Leap to Leader: How Ambitious Managers Make the Jump to Leadership*.

Many of us have our career trajectories planned out in our minds. While we know it’s not going to happen exactly the way we’ve planned, it’s still jarring when we find ourselves on a different path — or presented with a different opportunity — than we anticipated. In this episode, Adam and I discuss the mindsets and actions that will help you take the next step in your career.

Key Points

There can be a large gap between how assertive you are and how people perceive you.

Think about your career like a pyramid — building a strong foundation across many areas of practice. Bloom where you are planted.

Don’t just solve the problem your manager tells you to solve. Find (and start solving) the bigger problem that isn’t even on the radar screen of senior leadership.

Use these words: “I need your help.” When seeking advice in the context of someone that might mentor you, make your ask specific and then loop back to share what you did with their advice.

When someone asks how you are, instead of just saying “fine,” tell a story about what you’re working on.

Peer relationships are a common blind spot. Early promotions may come from your manager, but higher level promotions comes moreso from the relationships with your peers.

Resources Mentioned

The Leap to Leader: How Ambitious Managers Make the Jump to Leadership* by Adam Bryant

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

How to Nail a Job Transition, with Sukhinder Singh Cassidy (episode 555)

How to Start a Big Leadership Role, with Carol Kauffman (episode 617)

How to Start Better With Peers, with Michael Bungay Stanier (episode 635)

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Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.