Copywriters Podcast

Yesterday, Facebook wiped out a bunch of groups without warning. And just like that, some creators lost their entire audience. That’s why today, we’re talking about the one platform you actually own — your email list.

Apparently some of the groups were deleted by accident and reinstated.

But others were deleted permanently.

No one outside of Facebook’s Menlo Park, California headquarters really knows why this happened, but it does point to something our guest a couple of shows ago, Evelina Kaganovitch, said,

“Having your own email list is business insurance.”

It’s even more true today than it was two shows ago. Because, again, email is the one platform you actually own.

So, with our heightened threat awareness, Nathan suggested we do an emergency show on our latest findings on email marketing.

We’ll walk you through the essentials of email marketing that actually works in 2025 — including subject lines that get clicks, the #1 factor affecting your open rates, and the biggest mistakes we still see people making with their emails.”

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With the rapid spread of AI, will there even be a future for copywriters?

Both new and experienced copywriters are plagued by that same question.

And it’s a good question.

Because there are plenty of solid arguments that go like this:

With the rapid growth of AI, soon there won’t be any need for human copywriters.

And in some cases, that’s 100% true.

The good news is, there are also some powerful counter-arguments that say there will definitely be a need for copywriters, and still some great opportunities to make a lot of money.

But there’s a catch: If you want to survive, you’re going to have to learn some important new skills that only the top-of-the-crop copywriters needed in the past.

Culminating in one top skill that no AI will ever be able to attain.

I’ve figured out what they are - the lead-up skills, and the one top skill - and I’m going to share them with you, in detail, today.

Now I’ll spend a lot of time mentioning my mentoring, and I just want to say it’s not for everybody. You need to be more advanced than a beginner in your freelance copywriting career, or in your business.

Most of my new clients are already at the six-figure level. I’ve found those are the people I can help the most, and they’re also the people who can get an immediate return on their investment.

So if you’re interested, I do have one or two spots coming open by the fall. Please visit my website to read about the mentoring and then apply if this is something you really want to do.

Mentoring with me: https://garfinkelcoaching.com

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When you turn a prospect into a customer, are you delivering and getting the most value you can?

A lot of people have lame, generic welcome sequences because they know they have to say something… but they really don’t know what to say or how to say it.

Our very special guest today aims to change all that. She’s Evelina Kagonovitch, and she has gotten big numbers that should make you sit up and pay attention:

a 64% average open rate on win-back email campaign for marketing agency

A 7.6% increase in article views over the last 90 days for personal brand

A 20-30% average open rate on weekly marketing emails for marketing agency

A 5% CTR on ads for local soccer academy business

How does she do it? That’s what we’ll find out today.

She’s formally trained as a fashion designer, and has had experience as a freelance writer for magazines and digital publications. When covid struck, whe found herself in Melbourne Australia, stuck in the house under what she says was the worst lockdown protocol in the world.

So to make the best of a bad situation, she dove into the world of digital marketing and her marketing career really started to blossom.

Evelina likes sharing how she merges creativity with strategy, and why she believes email is the ultimate “business insurance” for any company or freelancer.

Today she’s going to tell us about her profitable approach to welcome strategies.

But first, I’m going to tell you that

Copy is powerful. You’re responsible for how you use what you hear on this podcast. Most of the time, common sense is all you need. But if you make extreme claims... and/or if you’re writing copy for offers in highly regulated industries like health, finance, and business opportunity... you may want to get a legal review after you write and before you start using your copy. My larger clients do this all the time.

1. You've had a lot of success with welcome email sequences for new subscribers that lead to sales. Could you describe one you've built?

2. What are the three most important rules you have when you put together a sequence like this?

3. What are the worst mistakes you see in welcome sequences that don't work?

4. When you're writing a single email in a welcome sequence, what advice would you give someone who's never done a welcome sequence before?

5. What was the most surprising reaction you've ever gotten to an email in a welcome sequence?

6. What advice would you give about subject lines and preview text? Could you give a couple of negative and positive examples?

7. Can you recommend any resources for people to learn more about putting together effective welcome sequences?

Website: https://www.evelinakreative.com/

LinkedIn: Evelina Kagan https://www.linkedin.com/in/evelinakreative/https://www.linkedin.com/in/evelinakreative/

Instagram: @evelinakreative https://www.instagram.com/evelinakreative/

Free email subject line swipe file:

Downloadable PDF

Free how to hire a copywriter guide:

Downloadable PDF

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Our returning champion is Sam Woods, who’s been using AI for business in very big ways since 2016.

That’s a lot longer than most people, including me. And Nathan.

And we’re both big fans of AI for copywriting!

But more important for today’s show, we’re big fans of Sam Woods!

And last time he was here, Sam gave us some highly valuable insights and hands-on tips for using AI with copywriting.

But over the past 10 years, Sam has also developed his own methodologies, training, and frameworks for building and growing online businesses in areas outside of copywriting.

Systems. Automations. In ways you might have imagined on the surface, and ways you could not possibly have imagined.

A refresher about Sam’s background:

He got started with machine learning in 2016 and generative AI in 2019. He was a pioneer in prompt engineering for AI copywriting, and marketing.

Sam has advised Fortune 1,000 companies and teams across the world, as well as advised and consulted with CEOs and other C-Suite executives.

He describes himself as “a strategic AI architect who advises C-Suite leaders on turning artificial intelligence into their most powerful competitive advantage.”

And he’s going to share a little bit of that massive store of wisdom with us today.

So before we start the interview, let me remind you first that

Copy is powerful. You’re responsible for how you use what you hear on this podcast. Most of the time, common sense is all you need. But if you make extreme claims... and/or if you’re writing copy for offers in highly regulated industries like health, finance, and business opportunity... you may want to get a legal review after you write and before you start using your copy. My larger clients do this all the time.

1. You’ve been talking about a mindset shift, away from prompts and more towards how AI can handle small or large portions of a business. Can you remember the first time when this became obvious to you, and what was that like?

2. For one of our listeners who’s juggling client work and marketing, what would you say is the first place they should consider using AI to automate the business?

3. You said in a tweet that AI that really caught my eye that AI systems should run “24/7” like invisible staff. Could you tell us about one or more everyday tasks you’ve automated yourself that have made a major difference in your business?

4. What are some other ways to use AI that most people aren’t thinking about?

5. Could you talk about the concept of migrating mindset from a “factory” model of business to a “neural network” model, especially when working with AI?

6. What’s the biggest mistake you see people making when they start building business systems around AI?

7. Looking ahead two years, what are the best habits and knowledge our listeners can start to develop now so they’re not behind the curve when AI takes over even more of the market?

Sam’s website: https://samueljwoods.com/

Other resources:

https://bionicbusiness.com

https://www.copywriting.ai/
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In 1911, psychology pioneer Alfred Adler resigned from the presidency of a prestigious society in Vienna—and Sigmund Freud took it personally and deemed Adler an enemy.

It didn’t stop there. Freud continued to rail against Adler until Freud’s death in 1939.

The details of the dispute are kind of technical and petty, and we won’t get into them today. The effects, however, were massive: Because of Freud’s opposition, Adler’s work was suppressed for decades.

And this is important. See, Adler had some powerful ideas that, decades later, have found their way into a number of well-accepted branches of psychology today – Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, Positive Psychology, Family Systems Therapy, to name only a few.

Yet Adler’s original work remains unknown to most people.

Where this fits into copywriting is that some of Adler’s core ideas are enormously useful. They can help you with big ideas, hooks, headlines, and understanding customer motivation at a deep level.

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Nick Lowe had a big hit on the top 40 back in the day called “Cruel to be Kind.”

Interesting idea, but how about this one?

“Kind to be Kind.”

Now there’s a novel idea.

And it’s the guiding principle of copywriter and agency owner Cath Reohorn, who has taken this philosophy to £1 million/month in revenues for her clients.

So you don’t have to do the math, that’s about $1.3 million per month.

Now, how does she do it?

Today, on Copywriters Podcast, you’ll find out exactly how.

Now, back to the idea of “Kind to be Kind.” Cath’s agency is called Kind Copy, and she defines the guiding principle this way:

“Kind copy stands for not twisting the knife. This anti-cruelty stance isn’t just an ethical standpoint. It’s a tactical advantage for services where the client needs to be actively involved in their process (like coaching and consulting).”

We’ll dive deep into that in a moment.

First, A little more about Cath and her business: She lives in Wales in the UK. She has a true family business, since it employs herself, her husband, her sister and 2 other team members.

What’s even more impressive, they grew with organic marketing to over £1m/month before she ever ran an ad.

Here's what we asked her:

1. You have chosen as your niche high-end fitness businesses, and you've said you're bringing them about £1 million/month in sales. How did you decide to focus on that niche?

2. What are you doing in the way of copy and strategy for these clients that's proving most profitable?

3. Could you explain your philosophy of Kind Copy and give us a couple of contrasting examples: typical copy vs. Kind Copy?

4. Your approach is to use organic content to drive sales. Could you tell us a little about that?

5. You said in a LinkedIn post: "The best marketing isn't about manipulation... it's about CHANGE WORK." Could you talk about that?

6. How are you using AI to lighten the load and let yourself focus on what you're really good at and/or what you enjoy doing the most?

7. If someone were to start out in the agency business today, what are the first three things you would advise them to learn or do (or both)?

Cath’s website: https://kindcopy.co.uk/

Cath’s social media links:

https://www.x.com/kindcopy

https://www.instagram.com/kindcopyuk/

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What do you do if you’ve tried and tried, six times, and what you’re trying to make happen… never happens?

That was the dilemma facing our special guest today, James Allen.

“I built 6 different funnels and courses that didn't make me a penny until I changed my strategy,” he says. “Finally, I built one that sold for me in my sleep—on repeat.”

In my mind, that’s an evergreen money machine.

James got so good at this that he helps coaches and content creators enjoy the same benefits of automated and scalable income that he has.

James started out in construction, and left that to become a spiritual life coach at age 22. Then, he became a productivity coach and subsequently shifted into helping people create evergreen funnels.

He’s shared plenty of money-while-you-sleep secrets that really work on our show today.

Here’s what we asked him:

1. What would you say is the biggest mistake course creators make when it comes to building products?

2. What are some tips for making sure you're building something people would like to buy?

3. How do you recommend a course creator launch the product? What are some crucial steps?

4. Once the product's launched, do you recommend building an automated system that sells the product for you?

5. How do you keep getting leads and sales without driving yourself crazy posting on social media, or draining your bank account with ads?

6. Could you tell us about one of your successful clients and how things are working out for that person?

7. How can people get in touch with you (or find out about your product/service)?

Links:

Free Training: Earn Your First $2,000/mo With Digital Products -

https://www.profityourknowledge.com/masterclass

Work With James 1on 1 -

https://www.profityourknowledge.com/apply

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You can’t fake it. It seems like you can’t force it.

But when creativity shows up at the right moment — your copy comes alive.

Sometimes it’s the difference between a flat headline and a breakthrough idea. Between a click and a sale. Between a promotion that falls flat and a control that blows the doors off.

On the other hand, when it doesn’t show up — that’s when things get rough.

Here’s the thing, though.

Creativity isn’t magic.

Oh, I know it seems like magic–especially when great new ideas spring up, seemingly out of nowhere.

And sometimes you feel like only a magic trick—or a miracle—would save you, when you’re stuck or going through a dry spell.

But the truth is, creativity is something you can spark, pretty much on demand.

All you need is the right tools.

And that’s what we’ll talk about today.

(Here are the 10 techniques we talked about.)

1. Get Moving — Walk, stretch, get your body moving.

2. Quantity Before Quality — Don’t stop at the first idea. Write twenty-one.

3. Creativity on Demand — Build habits and rituals to trigger flow.

4. Totally Random — Use odd words or images to spark new ideas.

5. Talk, Talk, Talk — Say your pitch out loud before you write it.

6. Go Contrarian — Flip the script and challenge the norm.

7. Exaggerate — Push an idea too far to find something bold.

8. Swipe Outside Your Lane — Look in markets besides your niche for structures and angles.

9. Let Customers Talk — Check out customer feedback for phrasing and emotion.

10. Perspective Shift — Zoom out. Pretend it’s not your project.

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For many people, actually doing a podcast is a lot harder than it seems.

A few months ago, Riverside.fm, a major podcast platform, published an article that said, "90% of podcasts don't get past episode 3," and "of the few that continue, another 90% will quit after 20 episodes."

Here at Copywriters Podcast, we understand this, but to be honest, we just haven’t done a lot ourselves to solve this particular problem. Not our jam.

Our special guest today, Dumi Mabhena, has done a LOT to help podcasters at all levels of skill and experience. His own podcast is called Zimbawean Voices, and he’s based in Washington, DC.

Dumi knows, as Nathan and I do, that the effective use of personal stories is key to making a podcast work.

And today he’s going to talk about the enormous impact of everyday stories have on sales.

He has founded businesses in multiple niches, including solar energy and student housing.

Dumi is also the author of a children’s book, Tuku’s Dream.

As for his work supporting other podcasters, Dumi and his business partner really tie the two things together pretty neatly in the headline on his website:

We simplify editing so you can focus on Storytelling.

So let’s focus on the storytelling part first.

Because while a lot of people want to start a podcast, EVERYBODY needs to tell better stories, and Dumi has some amazing and extremely practical insights about how you can use ordinary personal stories to have a massive positive impact on your sales.

Why?

One of several reasons is the tremendous connection they create between you and your listeners.

In today’s show, Dumi reveals five types of simple, authentic and surprisingly effectives stories that do not sell, but still build connection and trust with your prospects and can help you boost sales by a lot!

Dumi’s company, Shanda Studio: https://shanda.studio
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So a man says into his phone, “Siri, play Pizzetti’s Rondò Veneziano.”

Siri says, “Calling Roundtable Pizza.”

Pretty frustrating, right?

Well, that was what AI seemed like to me just one year ago.

Especially when it came to writing copy.

Completely out of the question.

But that has changed, in a VERY big way.

So for today, I’ve put together a special report on how AI is changing copywriting.

This is a report from the field. What pro copywriters and business owners are actually doing with AI.

And I’ll give you a hint. What they’re doing with AI includes writing copy, for sure.

But it also includes a WHOLE LOT MORE than just writing copy.

So to set the stage for today, a little over a year ago, we did a show on my 10 rules for mentoring copywriters and business owners. At the time, I was still a hard-core AI skeptic and I didn’t think AI had any place in copywriting or content creation.

So I didn’t include anything about AI at all in that show, or in my 10 rules for mentoring copywriters.

My reason was pretty basic: I was disgusted by the output I saw from AI at the time.

Well, a year is a LONG time in the world of AI. Especially the last year!

And since last March, I’ve completely changed my mind about AI and copywriting.

In fact, to show you how far things have come… AI played a part in every single copywriting mentoring call I did last week.

I’ll tell you about those calls in the show, but let’s take a whirlwind tour of some of the top developments in AI in my world since March of last year:

Claude has come on the scene, which was pretty impressive. A couple of months ago, Manus came on the scene, which was even more impressive.

In June, Nathan and I discovered what my old mentoring client Jason Parker was doing with his Copywriting Mastermind. We were both blown away and quickly paid to join. It’s been a breakthrough for both us in many different ways.

AI has become far more connected with the rest of the world over the last year.

One example is ChatGPT’s new search and Deep Research capabilities. You can get information you never would have imagined was available before.

And that barely scratches the surface.

The bottom line is that AI is not only here to stay. It’s also got to become part of your business if you want to stay current. I’ll give you some tips on key skills you need to develop.

And we’ll wrap up with a few things that HAVEN’T changed that much about copywriting, and probably never will, no matter how good AI gets.

In the show, we talked about the AI Copywriting Mastermind. If you’re interested in finding out more, I want you to reach out to our team member Deb.

And, if what I said resonates with you about learning copywriting first and AI second, I have one spot opening up in my mentoring in the next month. You should read about it first on my website and if you think you qualify, go ahead and send in an application. It’s there on the website.

RESOURCES:

For the mastermind, email Deb: [email protected]

For mentoring, visit https://garfinkelcoaching.com

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