In this essential episode, Drew and Josh are joined by Dr. Birthe Macdonald, a psychologist and neuroscience researcher who's become a vital voice in combating mental health misinformation on social media. The conversation tackles the overwhelming sea of questionable advice that anxious people encounter online, from vagus nerve stimulation devices to "nervous system regulation" quick fixes.

Dr. Macdonald shares her journey from neuroscience researcher to science communicator, sparked by sponsored ads for electrical vagus nerve stimulators that made bold claims without solid evidence. The trio explores why these pseudoscientific approaches are particularly appealing to people struggling with anxiety disorders – and why they can actually be harmful.

Key topics include:

• The dangerous appeal of "one thing" solutions that promise instant relief
• Why sponsored vagus nerve stimulation devices and similar products exploit vulnerable people
• How social media algorithms amplify misinformation while evidence-based content gets overlooked
• Red flags to watch for when consuming mental health content online
• The difference between what we know about how the brain works versus being able to "work" the brain directly
• Why ChatGPT and AI can become problematic reassurance-seeking tools for people with anxiety
• How to become a more critical consumer of pop psychology content

The conversation doesn't dismiss that some techniques may provide temporary relief, but emphasizes understanding why they work (often through distraction rather than magical nervous system manipulation) and recognizing when they become compulsive behaviors that maintain anxiety in the long run.

This episode serves as both a reality check and a guide for navigating the complex landscape of mental health information online, helping listeners distinguish between evidence-based approaches and appealing but potentially harmful quick fixes.

Find Birthe Online:

• https://www.instagram.com/dr.birthe.macdonald/
• https://www.birthemacdonald.com
• https://substack.com/@drbirthemacdonald

---

Disordered Roundtables are here! Think of it as "Disordered Live", a way for members of our audience to spend time with us in an intimate virtual setting (attendance is limited) to engage in real time sharing and discussion on specific anxiety disorder and recovery topics. To be notified when new Disordered Roundtable sessions are scheduled, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠visit our homepage and get on our mailing list⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

---

Struggling with worry and rumination that you feel you can't stop or control? Check out ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Worry and Rumination Explained⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, a two hour pre-recorded workshop produced by Josh and Drew. The workshop takes a deep dive into the mechanics of worrying and ruminating, offering some helpful ways to approach the seemingly unsolvable problem of trying to solve seemingly unsolvable problems.

-----

Want to ask us questions, share your wins, or get more information about Josh, Drew, and the Disordered podcast? Send us an email or voicemail on our website.

In this episode, we explore how the language we use to describe our anxiety experiences can either fuel our struggles or support our recovery. We examine the difference between helpful and unhelpful ways of talking about panic attacks, intrusive thoughts, and anxiety symptoms.

We discuss why saying "it feels like I'm dying" versus "I'm experiencing intense physical sensations" can dramatically impact your recovery journey. We challenge common phrases like "sit with it," "just ignore it," and "regulate yourself," offering more accurate and useful alternatives.

We also address the importance of changing how others around you talk about your anxiety, and we introduce a memorable analogy: treating your anxiety disorder like an ex you're pretending to ignore at a party - acknowledging it's there without giving it center stage.

This episode features inspiring "Did it Anyway" stories from listeners who did what they didn't think they were cable of doing, along with the usual dose of humor.

We conclude with practical advice for responding to tinnitus-related anxiety, emphasizing how attention and resistance amplify symptoms, while acceptance allows the brain's natural filtering system to work.

Timestamps:

08:30 - Why "it feels like" is the most problematic phrase in anxiety recovery
16:45 - The difference between "soul-crushing panic attack" and "intense adrenaline rush"
23:45 - How compulsive commentary differs from detached awareness
28:15 - Why saying "just sit with it" can be misleading
32:20 - The "anxiety as your ex" analogy that will change how you think about ignoring symptoms
37:15 - Inspiring "Did it Anyway" story about grandparent anxiety recovery
38:45 - Comprehensive tinnitus and anxiety management advice

In this episode, Josh and Drew tackle one of the most counterintuitive concepts in overcoming panic attacks: learning how to panic better, rather than trying to avoid panic altogether.

When facing a new job triggers familiar panic patterns, many people focus on preventing anxiety rather than developing a healthier relationship with it. Drew and Josh explore why "learning how to panic" is often the key to breaking free from panic disorder and agoraphobia.

Josh and Drew discuss the difference between panic attacks (the physical experience) and panic disorder (how we modify our lives to avoid those attacks). They challenge the common belief that panic attacks are disasters that must be prevented at all costs, instead suggesting that true recovery comes from accepting that panic might happen—and discovering that we can handle it.

• Why avoiding panic attacks keeps you stuck in the cycle
• The difference between learning "how to not panic" vs. "how to panic"
• Setting the right intention before challenging situations
• How catastrophic thinking creates unrealistic disaster scenarios
• The role of willful tolerance in anxiety recovery
• Addressing deeper fears about judgment and rejection at work

[03:45] - Josh and Drew introduce the concept: "This isn't about learning how to not panic. This is about getting better at panicking."

[11:30] - Drew challenges the core belief: "What would happen if I was wrong about that? What would happen if I'm wrong and I can actually handle having a panic attack at work?"

[18:30] - Josh on setting intentions: "I'm going to go and do this thing and see how well I can do whilst panicking."

[25:00] - Community win featuring someone who practiced "doing it anyway" during difficult existential thoughts

[30:10] - Success story: Concert attendance despite anxiety, demonstrating attention redirection techniques

[33:50] - Driving breakthrough story: Overcoming agoraphobia through gradual exposure and value-based action

---

The Exposure Explained workshop Drew mentioned in the episode:

https://learn.theanxioustruth.com/exposure-explained

---

Disordered Roundtables are here! Think of it as "Disordered Live", a way for members of our audience to spend time with us in an intimate virtual setting (attendance is limited) to engage in real time sharing and discussion on specific anxiety disorder and recovery topics. To be notified when new Disordered Roundtable sessions are scheduled, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠visit our homepage and get on our mailing list⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

---

Struggling with worry and rumination that you feel you can't stop or control? Check out ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Worry and Rumination Explained⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, a two hour pre-recorded workshop produced by Josh and Drew. The workshop takes a deep dive into the mechanics of worrying and ruminating, offering some helpful ways to approach the seemingly unsolvable problem of trying to solve seemingly unsolvable problems.

-----

Want to ask us questions, share your wins, or get more information about Josh, Drew, and the Disordered podcast? Send us an email or voicemail on our website.

When you're struggling with anxiety disorders, you often do things that don't reflect who you really are - avoiding social gatherings, canceling plans, or making demands on loved ones that you normally wouldn't. As you start to recover, it's common to feel overwhelming guilt about how your anxiety affected the people around you.

In this episode, Drew and Josh explore the complex journey of self-forgiveness after anxiety recovery. They discuss why anxiety disorders can make people appear self-centered while emphasizing that the disorder isn't who you are as a person.

• Understanding that anxiety disorders are incredibly common and not your fault
• Why trying to achieve absolute certainty that you didn't hurt others keeps you stuck
• The difference between healthy regret and destructive self-criticism
• How to practice willful tolerance of difficult feelings like guilt and shame
• Why some people need to apologize while others don't - there's no universal approach
• Recognizing that feeling bad about past actions reflects your values, not your failures

[2:45] The Reality of Anxiety's Impact: Drew and Josh discuss how anxiety disorders make people do things against their nature and why this creates lasting guilt.

[6:50] You're Not Responsible for Having a Disorder: "We'd have to rent the city of Denver to fit all the people with panic disorder" - Drew explains why anxiety disorders are common medical conditions, not personal failures.

[12:15] The Impossible Standard: Why seeking absolute certainty that you never disappointed anyone is both unrealistic and counterproductive to healing.

[14:30] Drew's Personal Story: A vulnerable moment where Drew shares his ongoing regret about not visiting a dying friend, and why he doesn't want to "get over" this feeling completely.

[17:45] The Meta Problem: How the same tendency that creates anxiety disorders can turn against you when processing guilt about the past.

[27:40] Josh's Compassionate Reframe: "Would you rather be someone who doesn't feel bad when they act against their values?" - A powerful perspective on why guilt reflects your moral compass.

This episode offers practical wisdom for anyone struggling with self-forgiveness while maintaining the hosts' signature balance of professional expertise and lived experience. Drew and Josh remind us that healing often means learning to sit with difficult feelings rather than trying to eliminate them entirely.

---

Disordered Roundtables are here! Think of it as "Disordered Live", a way for members of our audience to spend time with us in an intimate virtual setting (attendance is limited) to engage in real time sharing and discussion on specific anxiety disorder and recovery topics. To be notified when new Disordered Roundtable sessions are scheduled, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠visit our homepage and get on our mailing list⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

---

Struggling with worry and rumination that you feel you can't stop or control? Check out ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Worry and Rumination Explained⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, a two hour pre-recorded workshop produced by Josh and Drew. The workshop takes a deep dive into the mechanics of worrying and ruminating, offering some helpful ways to approach the seemingly unsolvable problem of trying to solve seemingly unsolvable problems.

-----

Want to ask us questions, share your wins, or get more information about Josh, Drew, and the Disordered podcast? Send us an email or voicemail on our website.

When anxiety takes hold, one of the first casualties is our natural sense of wonder and openness to new experiences. In this episode of Disordered, lets explore how anxiety disorders systematically erode our curiosity about the world around us and our own capabilities.

Drew and Josh discuss how anxiety creates a rigid, self-focused mindset that asks only "How will this make me feel?" rather than "What might I discover?" They examine how this shift from external curiosity to internal fixation becomes a prison that keeps us stuck in patterns of avoidance and safety-seeking behaviors.

The hosts share practical strategies for rekindling curiosity as a pathway back to psychological flexibility, including:

• Asking "What would happen if..." instead of avoiding uncertainty
• Practicing willful tolerance while fostering genuine interest in experiences
• Using curiosity about the recovery process itself as a therapeutic tool
• Distinguishing between helpful curiosity and anxious rumination

Through inspiring listener stories, Drew and Josh demonstrate how curiosity can be gradually rebuilt, even during heightened anxiety states. They show how simple questions like "What just happened here?" and "What might I learn from this?" can begin to crack open the rigid thinking patterns that keep anxiety disorders alive.

This episode offers hope that the natural human capacity for wonder and exploration doesn't disappear with anxiety—it simply needs gentle cultivation and practice to flourish again.

---

Disordered Roundtables are here! Think of it as "Disordered Live", a way for members of our audience to spend time with us in an intimate virtual setting (attendance is limited) to engage in real time sharing and discussion on specific anxiety disorder and recovery topics. To be notified when new Disordered Roundtable sessions are scheduled, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠visit our homepage and get on our mailing list⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

---

Struggling with worry and rumination that you feel you can't stop or control? Check out ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Worry and Rumination Explained⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, a two hour pre-recorded workshop produced by Josh and Drew. The workshop takes a deep dive into the mechanics of worrying and ruminating, offering some helpful ways to approach the seemingly unsolvable problem of trying to solve seemingly unsolvable problems.

-----

Want to ask us questions, share your wins, or get more information about Josh, Drew, and the Disordered podcast? Send us an email or voicemail on our website.

When something shocking or difficult happens, we're often told we need to "process" our emotions. But what if that endless loop of replaying events in your mind isn't actually processing at all? In this episode, Drew and Josh explore the crucial difference between healthy emotional processing and anxious rumination that keeps us stuck.

• How to distinguish between genuine emotional processing and OCD/GAD-style rumination
• Why that "urgent" feeling to think through something repeatedly might be a red flag
• The difference between being with your feelings versus chasing a particular feeling
• Why real processing can't be forced or scheduled on demand
• How to recognize when your mind is "hunting for problems to solve"

Processing vs. Ruminating: Real processing involves experiencing emotions from multiple perspectives and naturally leads somewhere. Anxious thinking loops from a single anxious viewpoint, chasing certainty or relief that never comes.

The Mirage Effect: Like chasing an oasis in the desert, compulsive thinking promises relief that always stays just out of reach.

Beyond the Urgent: If thinking through something feels urgent or mandatory right now, it's likely anxiety rather than processing.

Community Contributions In This Episode:

• Dental Victory (15:50): A listener shares how she conquered dental anxiety and gave herself full credit for the win
• Double Challenge (29:15): Managing husband's travel anxiety while attending a family party - and having a panic attack but staying anyway
• Panic Attack Breakthrough (32:30): Learning to let panic attacks run their course instead of fleeing to safety

Timestamps

• 02:00 - Listener question: When does processing become anxious looping?
• 05:20 - Josh explains the mechanics of OCD triggers after shocking events
• 09:15 - Drew on narrative therapy and finding meaning versus chasing feelings
• 13:00 - The misuse of "doing mode" - when thinking becomes a compulsion
• 18:30 - Why Craig the Critic might tell you to keep "processing"
• 21:00 - Josh's personal example of organic grief processing
• 26:10 - Signs of unprocessed emotions versus anxious rumination
• 27:30 - Why urgency is often a sign it's anxiety, not processing

True emotional processing happens organically and involves being with difficult feelings without trying to fix them. When "processing" feels urgent, repetitive, or like chasing relief, it's likely anxious thinking in disguise. The goal isn't to process everything immediately, but to allow natural emotional experiences while living your life.

---

Disordered Roundtables are here! Think of it as "Disordered Live", a way for members of our audience to spend time with us in an intimate virtual setting (attendance is limited) to engage in real time sharing and discussion on specific anxiety disorder and recovery topics. To be notified when new Disordered Roundtable sessions are scheduled, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠visit our homepage and get on our mailing list⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

---

Struggling with worry and rumination that you feel you can't stop or control? Check out ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Worry and Rumination Explained⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, a two hour pre-recorded workshop produced by Josh and Drew. The workshop takes a deep dive into the mechanics of worrying and ruminating, offering some helpful ways to approach the seemingly unsolvable problem of trying to solve seemingly unsolvable problems.

-----

Want to ask us questions, share your wins, or get more information about Josh, Drew, and the Disordered podcast? Send us an email or voicemail on our website.

In this episode of Disordered, the guys tackle one of the most misunderstood concepts in anxiety recovery: healing. Sparked by a listener question about balancing relationships with anxiety recovery work, the hosts dive deep into what healing anxiety really means - and what it doesn't.

The Problem with "Healing" Language 

Drew and Josh explore how the word "healing" can be problematic in anxiety recovery, often implying that people are broken and need fixing. They discuss how healing anxiety culture can keep people trapped in endless cycles of inward focus and compulsive self-improvement.

Real vs. Imaginary Healing 

There is a difference between meaningful healing (like processing grief or trauma) versus the endless pursuit of healing anxiety symptoms. They emphasize that anxiety disorders often require learning and skill development rather than traditional healing approaches.

Living vs. Healing 

A central theme emerges: in anxiety recovery, we don't heal to live - we live to heal. The hosts challenge the notion that extensive inner work must precede living your life, suggesting that engaging in meaningful activities IS the recovery process.

Timestamps:

4:30 - Why no one gets to define healing for you

8:00 - The "resource gathering" compulsion trap

13:40 - How healing language can keep you stuck

16:00 - The dangers of AI-driven anxiety advice

21:40 - When healing actually makes sense in therapy

26:30 - Why being "already healed" might be the answer

29:00 - The never-ending healing journey problem

33:00 - Self-development vs. living your life

The hosts suggest that many people struggling with anxiety may already be "healed" - they're simply learning to navigate life without anxiety being center stage. Rather than endless healing pursuits, recovery often involves doing less inner work and more actual living. The episode challenges popular wellness narratives while maintaining hope for genuine recovery through practical, reality-based approaches.

---

Disordered Roundtables are here! Think of it as "Disordered Live", a way for members of our audience to spend time with us in an intimate virtual setting (attendance is limited) to engage in real time sharing and discussion on specific anxiety disorder and recovery topics. To be notified when new Disordered Roundtable sessions are scheduled, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠visit our homepage and get on our mailing list⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

---

Struggling with worry and rumination that you feel you can't stop or control? Check out ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Worry and Rumination Explained⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, a two hour pre-recorded workshop produced by Josh and Drew. The workshop takes a deep dive into the mechanics of worrying and ruminating, offering some helpful ways to approach the seemingly unsolvable problem of trying to solve seemingly unsolvable problems.

-----

Want to ask us questions, share your wins, or get more information about Josh, Drew, and the Disordered podcast? Send us an email or voicemail on our website.

Ever feel trapped in cycles of rumination, overthinking, and constant mental chatter about your anxiety? In this episode, Drew and Josh tackle the challenging question of how to "get out of your own head" without turning it into another exhausting battle.

Starting with a thoughtful question from a listener who has built an impressive life despite ongoing anxiety and DPDR but still struggles with constant internal focus, the hosts explore why simply trying to stop thinking doesn't work and what actually does.

Key topics covered include:

• Why "getting out of your head" doesn't mean eliminating anxious thoughts
• The difference between coexisting with thoughts versus fighting them
• How to make anxiety the "least interesting thing in the room"
• Understanding when overthinking becomes a compulsion rather than helpful problem-solving
• Practical strategies for redirecting attention while allowing difficult feelings
• The role of willful tolerance in breaking rumination cycles

The episode features inspiring "did it anyway" stories from listeners conquering agoraphobia with solo travel and managing postpartum OCD intrusive thoughts during daily caregiving tasks.

Drew and Josh also address the tricky balance between attention redirection techniques and emotional avoidance, offering guidance for those working with metacognitive therapy approaches.

Key Timestamps:

[02:30] - Listener question about staying out of your own head

[07:30] - Josh's detailed narrative of what being "in your head" actually sounds like

[12:50] - Making anxiety the least interesting thing in the room

[15:50] - The attention "flashlight" metaphor and experimentation approach

[17:00] - Josh's YouTube banner analogy for intrusive thoughts

[18:40] - Addressing GAD and the belief that thinking is always helpful

[25:00] - Powerful "did it anyway" story about postpartum OCD

[29:00] - The role of distraction and attention flexibility

[33:40] - Listener question about balancing allowing feelings vs. attention redirection

This episode emphasizes that recovery isn't about achieving a thought-free mind, but rather developing a healthier relationship with your internal experience while engaging meaningfully with your life.---

------

Disordered Roundtables are here! Think of it as "Disordered Live", a way for members of our audience to spend time with us in an intimate virtual setting (attendance is limited) to engage in real time sharing and discussion on specific anxiety disorder and recovery topics. To be notified when new Disordered Roundtable sessions are scheduled, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠visit our homepage and get on our mailing list⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

---

Struggling with worry and rumination that you feel you can't stop or control? Check out ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Worry and Rumination Explained⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, a two hour pre-recorded workshop produced by Josh and Drew. The workshop takes a deep dive into the mechanics of worrying and ruminating, offering some helpful ways to approach the seemingly unsolvable problem of trying to solve seemingly unsolvable problems.

-----

Want to ask us questions, share your wins, or get more information about Josh, Drew, and the Disordered podcast? Send us an email or voicemail on our website.

What If I Want To Control My Anxiety Holistically?

In this episode, Drew and Josh examine tension between wanting to control anxiety through holistic approaches and recognizing when that desire for control becomes part of the problem itself.

Key Topics Discussed:

• The difference between actual control and the illusion of control
• How the wellness and self-optimization industry can exploit anxiety sufferers
• Why treating anxiety as a threat teaches your brain to keep the alarm system activated
• The gray area between healthy self-care and anxiety-driven fixing behaviors
• How to recognize when "wellness" strategies become safety behaviors

Important Timestamps:

00:00 - A listener from Switzerland asks about holistic control strategies and when it feels like she can control things

02:30 - Introduction to the control illusion concept

04:20 - Drew explains the critical difference between knowing and controlling

5:45 - Josh's "why" question - examining motivations behind wellness pursuits

8:15- How your threat response learns from your control behaviors

11:45- Personal stories: Josh's magnesium bath experience and Drew's supplement journey

14:30 - The meditation paradox - using mindfulness as exposure vs. control

16:00- Drew's mini-rant about the billion-dollar wellness industry

21:15 - Did It Anyway: A listener's birthday triumph (train, crowds, and dating)

22:30- The Dr. Oz example of entertainment vs. medicine

31:45- The compatibility question: Can you pursue both control and acceptance?

35:00- Josh's "willful tolerance" exercise

39:00 - Did It Anyway: A listener conquers their emetophobia podcast fear

41:00 - First official announcement of the upcoming "Disordered Guide to Health Anxiety" book

Key Takeaways

The episode emphasizes that while basic wellness practices may be helpful, using them as anxiety control strategies often backfires. True recovery involves learning to be with difficult feelings rather than trying to eliminate them. The hosts stress the importance of asking "why" you're pursuing any wellness intervention - is it for general health or to avoid anxiety?

This episode offers practical guidance on distinguishing between healthy self-care and anxiety-driven control behaviors, helping listeners navigate the complex world of wellness marketing while staying focused on genuine recovery principles.

---

Disordered Roundtables are here! Think of it as "Disordered Live", a way for members of our audience to spend time with us in an intimate virtual setting (attendance is limited) to engage in real time sharing and discussion on specific anxiety disorder and recovery topics. To be notified when new Disordered Roundtable sessions are scheduled, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠visit our homepage and get on our mailing list⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

---

Struggling with worry and rumination that you feel you can't stop or control? Check out ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Worry and Rumination Explained⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, a two hour pre-recorded workshop produced by Josh and Drew. The workshop takes a deep dive into the mechanics of worrying and ruminating, offering some helpful ways to approach the seemingly unsolvable problem of trying to solve seemingly unsolvable problems.

-----

Want to ask us questions, share your wins, or get more information about Josh, Drew, and the Disordered podcast? Send us an email or voicemail on our website.

Am I Doing Too Much Recovery/Exposure?

This week Drew and Josh tackle a common question in anxiety recovery: "Am I pushing myself too hard with exposures?" The guys explore the nuanced balance between challenging yourself and recognizing when you might genuinely need rest.

In this episode:

• How to distinguish between being genuinely depleted versus being scared
• Why feeling anxious after successful exposures doesn't mean you've done "too much"
• The difference between active, reasoned decisions to rest and anxiety-driven avoidance
• Special considerations for people with OCD and chronic health conditions
• How to balance recovery work with other life priorities like family time

Featured listener stories:

• Nicole shares her experience flying to Munich for a Champions League game and wondering if she's overdoing exposures
• Tyler's victory over health anxiety by choosing the gym over Google searches
• Matt's success working an 8-hour shift without his "safety person"
• Chris's inspiring story of dating while tapering off medication

While you can't actually "break" your recovery by doing too much, it's important to allocate your resources wisely and remember that feeling scared doesn't mean you've made a mistake - it means you're doing exactly what recovery requires.

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Disordered Roundtables are here! Think of it as "Disordered Live", a way for members of our audience to spend time with us in an intimate virtual setting (attendance is limited) to engage in real time sharing and discussion on specific anxiety disorder and recovery topics. To be notified when new Disordered Roundtable sessions are scheduled, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠visit our homepage and get on our mailing list⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

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Struggling with worry and rumination that you feel you can't stop or control? Check out ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Worry and Rumination Explained⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, a two hour pre-recorded workshop produced by Josh and Drew. The workshop takes a deep dive into the mechanics of worrying and ruminating, offering some helpful ways to approach the seemingly unsolvable problem of trying to solve seemingly unsolvable problems.

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Want to ask us questions, share your wins, or get more information about Josh, Drew, and the Disordered podcast? Send us an email or voicemail on our website.