Want to discuss what you hear on this episode with Josh and Drew and others that are sharing your experience? Check out the Disordered Podcast Community Space.

https://disordered.fm/communty

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In this episode of Disordered, we celebrate the "Global Edition" of Did It Anyway.

We're sharing inspiring stories from our community members around the world who chose to face their fears and take action despite experiencing intense anxiety.

From navigating health anxiety at a drum and bass gig in London to managing emetophobia while being physically ill, these stories highlight the power of psychological flexibility. We discuss how recovery isn't about the absence of anxiety, but rather the shortening of the time between "oh my god" and "oh well".

• The "Did It Anyway" Mindset: How listeners applied this approach to return to work, travel, and social situations despite panic and agoraphobia.

• Desensitization in Real-Time: Using exposure therapy principles to stay present with uncomfortable physical sensations rather than retreating.

• Challenging Safety Behaviors: Stories of individuals staying home alone for the first time in weeks or eating "fear foods" to reclaim their lives.

• Overcoming the Inner Critic: Learning to move into productive problem-solving mode instead of self-berating when anxiety spikes and thinking isn't perfectly clear.

• Recovery as a Journey: Emphasizing that while these principles are simple, implementing them is a gradual process that requires patience and persistence.

We also touch on the importance of self-compassion and acknowledging that even when life is genuinely difficult—such as dealing with family health struggles—you can still apply these principles to your recovery and desensitization work.

---

The Disordered Guide to Health Anxiety is now available. If you're struggling with health anxiety, this book is for you.

---

Struggling with worry and rumination that you feel you can't stop or control? Check out ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Worry and Rumination Explained⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, a two hour pre-recorded workshop produced by Josh and Drew. The workshop takes a deep dive into the mechanics of worrying and ruminating, offering some helpful ways to approach the seemingly unsolvable problem of trying to solve seemingly unsolvable problems.

-----

Want to ask us questions, share your wins, or get more information about Josh, Drew, and the Disordered podcast? Send us an email or leave a voicemail on our website.

Want to talk about what you're hearing in this episode with Josh and Drew and others that share your experience?

https://disordered.fm/community

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In this episode, Josh and Drew break down the "Stress Jug"—a metaphor designed to explain why anxiety and panic often seem to appear out of nowhere. The guys discuss how accumulated stress, both positive and negative, can cause your "threat response" to overflow, leading to sensitization and the search for a threat where none exists.

• The Mechanics of Overflow: How the amygdala misinterprets a full "stress jug" as immediate danger, triggering unexpected fear and physical symptoms.

• The Role of Meaning-Making: Why your brain creates narratives (like health anxiety or fear of "going crazy") to explain internal discomfort.

• Beyond "Emptying the Jug": Why recovery isn't about avoiding stress or keeping the jug empty, but learning to tolerate the overflow when life gets heavy.

• "Meta-Stress": Understanding the additional weight of being stressed about being stressed, and how that contributes to the cycle of disordered anxiety.

• The "Gunk" at the Bottom: Addressing long-term factors like grief, self-esteem, or unprocessed emotions that occupy space in your jug.

We're also sharing "Did It Anyway" stories from the community, including a listener’s trip to Jamaica despite anxiety and a first-time solo drive after years of avoidance. These stories highlight the importance of taking action even when you don't yet believe you are safe.

---

The Disordered Guide to Health Anxiety is now available. If you're struggling with health anxiety, this book is for you.

---

Struggling with worry and rumination that you feel you can't stop or control? Check out ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Worry and Rumination Explained⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, a two hour pre-recorded workshop produced by Josh and Drew. The workshop takes a deep dive into the mechanics of worrying and ruminating, offering some helpful ways to approach the seemingly unsolvable problem of trying to solve seemingly unsolvable problems.

-----

Want to ask us questions, share your wins, or get more information about Josh, Drew, and the Disordered podcast? Send us an email or leave a voicemail on our website.

Questions about this episode? Want to interact with Drew, Josh, and other members of the Disordered audience? Check out the Disordered Community Space!

⁠https://disordered.fm/community⁠

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This week we're discussing the relationship between anxiety and self-compassion. Self-compassion is often dismissed as a way to avoid difficult tasks or "whine" about struggles, but it is actually a functional part of the desensitization process.

Drew shares how he originally viewed self-compassion as a weakness that would lead to more avoidance, only to realize that berating himself was not actually an effective motivator. Josh explains how a lack of self-compassion can lead to "re-sensitization" when you turn recovery into a performance you have to perfect.

What We Discuss:

• The "No Self-Compassion" Mistake: Why driving yourself with brute force and criticism often backfires
• Accepting The Current Version of You: The importance of acknowledging that you are currently afraid or avoidant without berating or rejecting yourself for it.
• Self-Compassion vs. Coddling: Distinguishing between being kind to yourself while doing hard things and using "kindness" as an excuse to stay on the sofa.
• Navigating Misunderstanding: How to handle friends or family who do not understand anxiety disorders and the importance of validating your own experience instead of waiting for them to do it.

Recovery requires the flexibility to be afraid and move forward simultaneously. Using self-compassion means letting the scared version of yourself into the experiential classroom so you can actually learn the lessons found in acceptance, tolerance, surrender, floating, and exposure!

---

The Disordered Guide to Health Anxiety is now available. If you're struggling with health anxiety, this book is for you.

---

Want a way to ask questions about this episode or interact with other Disordered listeners?  The Disordered app is nearing release! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Visit our home page and get on our mailing list for more information..

-----

Want to ask us questions, share your wins, or get more information about Josh, Drew, and the Disordered podcast? Send us an email or leave a voicemail on our website.

Questions about this episode? Want to interact with Drew, Josh, and other members of the Disordered audience? Check out the Disordered Community Space!

https://disordered.fm/community

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This episode of Disordered explores the vital role of attention in anxiety recovery. Josh and Drew discuss the core skill of moving your attention while feeling high levels of fear.

Many people struggling with anxiety disorders feel their attention is glued to symptoms or intrusive thoughts. Josh describes this as "threat-induced attention," which is a survival mechanism where the brain locks onto perceived danger. You always have agency over your attention. Recovery involves building an "attention muscle" to acknowledge the fear and choose a different focus.

• Confidence in Attention: Josh shares a personal breakthrough where he felt a massive adrenaline rush on a bus but chose to read a newspaper anyway. This desensitization happened because he trusted his ability to move his attention despite the discomfort.

• The "Checking State" Trap: Drew explains that many common calming techniques backfire. If you use them to force anxiety away, you end up hyper-focusing on your internal state to see if they worked. This keeps you trapped in the threat cycle.

• Facing the "Bear": Using a metaphor of a bear in a campsite, the hosts explain that looking away from the anxiety tells the brain the emergency is over. Staring at the anxiety only confirms to your nervous system that you are still under threat.

• Practical Application: Whether going to the dentist or taking a train, the goal is to move attention toward meaningful tasks rather than internal monitoring.

  
  

"The only way to show the brain and the amygdala that this isn't a threat is to show it with our attention... that this isn't important." — Josh

"We cannot operate directly on your anxiety... we can only operate on the way you interact with it." — Drew

Building confidence in your attention is a gradual process rooted in Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) and Metacognitive Therapy. It requires bravery to look away from the fear to find the path to long-term psychological flexibility.

After many months of building and planning, the Disordered Community space is now live. We could not be more pleased about this!

Check out the community space here:

https://disordered.fm/community

Why did we do this?

• Endless scroll, algorithm-driven, attention focused platforms that only want to monetize your struggle are awful places to support anxious people.
• A smaller, more focused, intentional community where we can interact in a meaningful way and foster education, inspiration, and encouragement is actually useful in the real world.
• There are way too many anxiety "communities" that make egregious promises to fix you, cure you, lead you to freedom, and make you better - often at a very high cost. That's not how to do that.
• We're personally tired of dancing for Meta and Google. It's a huge amount of work to reach a small number of people (even with lots of followers) on platforms that don't really value the topic and the discussions we're having.

We built this space to foster interaction, sharing, cheerleading, and encouragement. We've jammed it full of articles, tips, ideas, podcast episodes, and all the psychoeducational workshops we've produced over the years. All included in the community.

You do NOT have to join the community to get better. This is absolutely optional and we're not going to hide things behind the paywall. Our content will continue to be out here on the Internet at large. But we do think we've made something useful and reasonable and that's where we're gonna be hanging out.

This episode of Disordered examines the fundamental "Golden Rules" of anxiety desensitization. Josh and Drew break down two core principles designed to guide long term desensitization for those struggling with panic disorder, agoraphobia, OCD, and health anxiety. They move away from promising cures or quick fixes, focusing instead on changing the listener's relationship with discomfort.

• Rule One: Do what non-anxious you would do while anxious. The guys explain that this involves engaging in life tasks regardless of the presence of fear.

• Rule Two: Don’t make anxiety the most important thing in the room. While anxiety is allowed to be present, it should not sit at the top of the decision making tree. Desensitization happens when values and intentions are prioritized over the urge to monitor internal feelings.

• Acceptance vs. Control: Josh and Drew discuss the necessity of recognizing that attempts to control or escape anxiety are often ineffective. They advocate for psychological flexibility, where a person learns to be with difficult internal experiences rather than fighting them.

• The Power of Agency: The guys emphasize that even in highly sensitized states, individuals retain agency over their attention. They describe how to tolerate physical symptoms without letting those sensations govern behavior.

• "Did It Anyway" Stories: The episode features community members who applied these rules during high stakes moments like public speaking or travel. These stories serve to encourage others to face fears that are uncomfortable but not dangerous.

Josh and Drew frame desensitization as a journey requiring patience and persistence rather than a destination reached through "hacks" or secret solutions. This episode provides a practical framework for listeners ready to stop avoiding their feelings and start moving forward.

---

The Disordered Guide to Health Anxiety is now available. If you're struggling with health anxiety, this book is for you.

---

Want a way to ask questions about this episode or interact with other Disordered listeners?  The Disordered community space is nearing release! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Visit our home page and get on our mailing list for more information..

---

Struggling with worry and rumination that you feel you can't stop or control? Check out ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Worry and Rumination Explained⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, a two hour pre-recorded workshop produced by Josh and Drew. The workshop takes a deep dive into the mechanics of worrying and ruminating, offering some helpful ways to approach the seemingly unsolvable problem of trying to solve seemingly unsolvable problems.

In this episode of Disordered, guest co-host Kimberley Quinlan joins Drew to pull back the curtain on one of the most persistent hurdles in anxiety recovery: rumination. Whether you call it overthinking, worry, or mental "problem solving," the process is a universal constant across panic disorder, OCD, health anxiety, depression, and other related issues.

We examine why rumination feels like a productive tool when it is actually a mental compulsion designed to avoid the discomfort of uncertainty. Kim and Drew break down the "tax" that rumination imposes on your life, specifically the deep physiological and emotional exhaustion that leaves you without the energy to make the actual changes you want.

What You’ll Learn This Week:

The Process vs. The Content: Why the specific thing you are worried about matters less than the fact that you are stuck in a circular thinking process.

The "What If" Statement: How to recognize that "what if" is a statement of fear, not a question that requires an answer.

Problem Solving vs. Rumination: Identifying the moment thinking stops being an investment and starts becoming a drain.

Beliefs About Worry: Challenging the "positive" beliefs we hold, such as the idea that worrying makes us a better parent or more prepared for disaster.

Attention Control Training: Practical ways to re-engage with the present moment, even when your brain is screaming for certainty.

Recovery is about learning to put the thoughts down and returning to whatever is next in your day. It is hard work, and you might "suck at it" initially, but managing rumination is a skill for life that reduces suffering and brings you back to your own experiences.

Find Kim's podcast here:

https://www.youtube.com/@youranxietytoolkit

Kim's courses and workshops:

https://cbtschool.com

Kim's Instagram

https://instagram.com/YourAnxietyToolkit

---

The Disordered Guide to Health Anxiety is now available. If you're struggling with health anxiety, this book is for you.

---

Want a way to ask questions about this episode or interact with other Disordered listeners?  The Disordered app is nearing release! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Visit our home page and get on our mailing list for more information..

---

Struggling with worry and rumination that you feel you can't stop or control? Check out ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Worry and Rumination Explained⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, a two hour pre-recorded workshop produced by Josh and Drew. The workshop takes a deep dive into the mechanics of worrying and ruminating, offering some helpful ways to approach the seemingly unsolvable problem of trying to solve seemingly unsolvable problems.

In this episode, Drew and Josh discuss the world of anxiety cures and the "miracle" solutions often marketed to those struggling with panic, OCD, and health anxiety. They share personal stories of the various methods they tried during their own recoveries and explain why many popular trends fail to provide long-term relief.

• The Magnetism of the Miracle Cure: Why we are drawn to supplements like magnesium or specialized "breathing devices" when we are desperate to feel better.

• Control vs. Acceptance: How many anxiety cures are actually just hidden control strategies that prevent true psychological flexibility.

• The Reality of "Natural" Supplements: A look at the laxative effects of magnesium and the empty promises of "science-based" miracle powders.

• The "Secret" Rituals: Why techniques like EFT tapping or specialized humming might feel helpful in the moment but often reinforce the idea that anxiety is a danger to be managed.

• The Risks of "Gurus" and Online Cults: How to identify predatory marketing and why a "lived experience" qualification does not replace professional, evidence-based training.

The guys break down why the search for an external fix often leads to more discouragement. They discuss how true recovery is found in learning to tolerate and be with difficult internal experiences rather than trying to engineer them away with bracelets, essential oils, or "secret" techniques.

• If a solution is marketed as a "miracle" or "what nobody tells you," be cautious.

• Recovery is an internal process of building distress tolerance, not an external process of finding the right product.

• Support people are there to cheer you on through the fear, not to keep you "safe" from a feeling.

About Disordered: Drew Linsalata and Joshua Fletcher are therapists and authors who have both recovered from severe anxiety disorders. They use evidence-based principles from ACT, CBT, and mindfulness to help you navigate your recovery journey without the empty promises of "magic" cures.

---

The Disordered Guide to Health Anxiety is now available. If you're struggling with health anxiety, this book is for you.

---

Want a way to ask questions about this episode or interact with other Disordered listeners?  The Disordered app is nearing release! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Visit our home page and get on our mailing list for more information..

---

Struggling with worry and rumination that you feel you can't stop or control? Check out ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Worry and Rumination Explained⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, a two hour pre-recorded workshop produced by Josh and Drew. The workshop takes a deep dive into the mechanics of worrying and ruminating, offering some helpful ways to approach the seemingly unsolvable problem of trying to solve seemingly unsolvable problems.

Have you ever felt anxious about admitting you're doing better? Like saying "I'm okay" out loud might somehow jinx your progress or tempt fate?

In this episode, Drew and Josh explore that uncomfortable feeling when someone asks "How are you doing?" and you're caught between wanting to acknowledge improvement and being afraid that talking about it will make everything fall apart again.

What we discuss:

• Why the question "How are you?" can feel triggering when you're recovering from an anxiety disorder
• The superstition around "tempting fate" and what's really happening beneath it
• How different contexts change what we mean by "doing okay" (spoiler: anxiety can be present while you're still doing okay)
• The authenticity trap - feeling like you're lying either way
• Why "I'm doing okay at the moment" might be the most honest answer you can give
• How this fear shows up in OCD, health anxiety, panic disorder, and agoraphobia
• The difference between attention-driven fear and superstitious fear
• Why letting go of control can feel like tempting fate (and why that's exactly the practice)

Featured segments:

• Community "Did It Anyway" stories highlighting real progress without promising outcomes
• Discussion of how exposures work when they feel risky or reckless
• Practical suggestions for navigating social questions about your wellbeing

This episode may be helpful for anyone struggling with the fear of acknowledging improvement, or who finds themselves avoiding conversations about their anxiety recovery.

---

The Disordered Guide to Health Anxiety is now available. If you're struggling with health anxiety, this book is for you.

---

Want a way to ask questions about this episode or interact with other Disordered listeners?  The Disordered app is nearing release! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Visit our home page and get on our mailing list for more information..

---

Struggling with worry and rumination that you feel you can't stop or control? Check out ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Worry and Rumination Explained⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, a two hour pre-recorded workshop produced by Josh and Drew. The workshop takes a deep dive into the mechanics of worrying and ruminating, offering some helpful ways to approach the seemingly unsolvable problem of trying to solve seemingly unsolvable problems.

In this listener participation episode, Drew and Josh tackle your questions about recovery while celebrating inspiring stories from the community.

Questions explored in this episode:

Why does my anxiety disorder feel like it's protecting me? When you're struggling with OCD, panic disorder, or health anxiety, your threat response can feel like a cult leader in your head—insisting it has your back, showing you "the truth," and making it incredibly risky to walk away. We break down why this happens and what you can do about it.

What about rolling panic attacks? One listener shares their experience of a vacation derailed by cascading panic attacks that wouldn't stop. We explain why panic attacks can roll from one into the next, what fuels this cycle, and how following anxiety's instructions in the moment keeps the wheel turning.

How do I handle competing voices in my head? As you progress in recovery, you may notice different voices—one saying "freak out now" and another saying "wait, let's see what's happening here." We discuss what these voices represent and how to work with them.

Other topics: Managing health anxiety when you're actually sick, dealing with rejection without letting it fuel future anxiety, and why thinking about "what could have been" isn't grief—it's just overthinking.

Did It Anyways from listeners include:

• Changing medication brands without obsessing over side effects
• Driving four hours alone to a camping trip despite agoraphobia
• Sitting through a three-hour movie after a year of avoidance
• Grocery shopping while anxious
• Sharing romantic feelings despite fear of rejection

Key takeaway: The simplest description of anxiety disorder recovery? Getting really good at leaving it the hell alone. That means resisting the urge to fix, control, or prevent uncomfortable feelings, and instead doing what non-anxious you would do—even while you're feeling scared.

---

The Disordered Guide to Health Anxiety is now available. If you're struggling with health anxiety, this book is for you.

---

Want a way to ask questions about this episode or interact with other Disordered listeners?  The Disordered community is nearing is opening day! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Visit our home page and get on our mailing list for more information..

---

Struggling with worry and rumination that you feel you can't stop or control? Check out ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Worry and Rumination Explained⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, a two hour pre-recorded workshop produced by Josh and Drew. The workshop takes a deep dive into the mechanics of worrying and ruminating, offering some helpful ways to approach the seemingly unsolvable problem of trying to solve seemingly unsolvable problems.