Every family has its legends, the stories told and retold until they become gospel. Family Lore is a new weekly podcast that revisits those tales with curiosity, digging into the history behind each one to uncover what's true, what's myth, and what it all means. Enjoy this preview, then catch full episodes wherever you listen: https://link.pscrb.fm/f0281/FLFD

Description:There are some books you read with your whole body. Strangers by Belle Burden is one of those books.

Belle was married for twenty-one years. Three kids. A life that, from the outside, looked like everything you're supposed to want. Then on the seventh day of the pandemic lockdown, a stranger left her a voicemail — and by the next morning, the man she thought she knew was gone.

Belle is a former Davis Polk attorney, a descendant of John Jay, and the granddaughter of legendary socialite Babe Paley. She was raised in a world where women simply did not speak publicly about their husbands' transgressions. So she broke the chain — first in a viral New York Times Modern Love essay, then in her New York Times bestselling memoir. And now she's here with Jen.

This conversation is everything. The night it all fell apart — the dinner, the mopped floor, the voicemail, the packed bag by morning. The myths we hand women about divorce and who gets to carry the shame. The money piece that nobody wants to talk about but everybody needs to hear. And the strange, hard-won truth that the most devastating thing that ever happened to you might also be the thing that finally gives you back to yourself.

Jen and Belle are in an accidental sisterhood — two women who wrote the book about the thing that broke them, because it turns out a million other women are walking around carrying the same broken thing in silence. This one is for every woman who has ever stood in a kitchen in her pajama pants and felt the floor shift beneath her feet.

If you can't yet imagine what's waiting for you on the other side of the hardest thing, let Belle and Jen show you.

Thought-provoking Quotes:

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Guest’s Links:

Website - https://www.belleburden.com/

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/belleburden/

Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker

The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.

★ “It's really connected me to humanity to hear people's very private stories, their very private feelings, and that they feel safe sharing them with me because I think I was so raw and open and honest about my own.”-- Belle Burden★ “Writing about pain is really something that we really don’t see enough of.” -- Belle Burden★ “It took me years to let go of the matronly woman in the pajama pants who he wasn’t attracted to anymore and to replace her image in my mind with something else.” -- Belle Burden★ “People really want to find the red flags because they want to know that this ending was predictable. I think that makes people feel safer because this is a scary story. It feels totally impossible and then also very possible. I think people really want those red flags.” -- Belle Burden★ “I never could have thought that that horrible thing could happen to me and I could end up in a place where I'm happier, where my life is more interesting, that I feel so much more myself and it's very hard to envision that when you're in it.”-- Belle Burden★ “I think when things kind of fall apart, you just are forced to become more relaxed because nothing is going as you intended it to go.” -- Belle Burden➢ 

Description:Some episodes we plan. This one you created.

This week, Jen and Amy are stepping back and letting the people they do this whole thing for take center stage. It's Listener Voicemail Day — and honestly? It might be our favorite kind of episode. Because nothing reminds us why this community exists quite like hearing your actual voices.

So we're bringing your calls to you — from all kinds of moments and all kinds of women.

Jessica calls in to reflect on our Awake Collective episode and where she is at in her own healing process, and feeling the loneliness that can settle in when you're deep in the work. Jen and Amy reflect on so much of the wisdom of our incredible Awake Collective panel – Kate Bowler, Nedra Tawwab, Emily Nagoski, and Kobe Cambell, whose words echo here: healing isn't supposed to feel good — it's supposed to feel like disruption.

Sara brings it home with a call about raising young girls. Between them, Jen and Amy are parenting nine young adults, so they have thoughts.

Amanda found Awake on vacation and came home having discovered something she didn't know she was missing — an invisible community of women who just get it.

Deborah calls in from Canada with a story that will stop you in your tracks. A devastating and beautiful parallel between her journey losing her husband to terminal brain cancer and Jen's own story — and the breathtaking grace of how, by God's grace, we do recover.

Tania reflects on the Wilderness and Wonder series and a recent trip to the mountains that cracked something open in her — the awe, the connection, the reminder that this podcast is its own kind of sacred space.

And Diavianne closes things out talking budgets and spreadsheets, which sounds ordinary until you realize it's actually about power — the freedom and confidence that come from truly owning your financial life.

Jen and Amy respond to each one with the honesty and tenderness that only comes from doing this long enough to know: you are never as alone as you think you are.

This is the connective tissue. This is why we show up every week.

Have something you need to say out loud? Head to JenHatmaker.com/Podcast, find the Send Voicemail button, and leave us your story. We're listening.

Thought-provoking Quotes:

“There’s something comforting about not feeling alone in something. I borrow courage from other people who say ‘me too’.” – Jen Hatmaker

“Some things only work for us for a season. It’s okay to change things up. There’s not one right way to do things.” – Amy Hardin

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

The Wake-Up Call: What Changes in Midlife—and Why You’re Not Imagining It - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/the-wake-up-call-what-changes-in-midlife-and-why-youre-not-imagining-it/

Why We Sleep: Unlocking the Power of Sleep and Dreams by Matthew Walker - https://amzn.to/4whxU6N

The Emotional (and Sometimes Chaotic) Life of Teenagers with Dr. Lisa Damour - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-52-for-the-love-of-calming-the-chaos/the-emotional-and-sometimes-chaotic-life-of-teenagers-with-dr-lisa-damour/

Good Bones by Maggie Smith - https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/89897/good-bones

Description:Some conversations are so good, they deserve a second life.

As we've been building out our Chosen Family series — exploring what it actually takes to find, keep, and nurture the people who truly see you — we kept coming back to this tender conversation because it was resonant then but it hits differently now.

Dr. Thema Bryant is a psychologist, author, professor, ordained minister, and former president of the American Psychological Association. Her books Matters of the Heart and Homecoming have resonated deeply with women navigating the beautiful, complicated work of belonging — and her clarity on what it means to truly come home to yourself is exactly the foundation this series needed.

In this conversation, Jen and Amy dig into:

Why midlife can feel isolating even when you're surrounded by people — and what's really going on beneath that loneliness

How to grieve friendships that have run their season while making genuine room for new ones

The difference between performing friendship and actually being emotionally available for it

Why our wellness matters more than our loyalty — and what it looks like to stop sacrificing yourself in the name of showing up for everyone else

Practical tools like writing vows to yourself and how to build community from scratch when one was never ready-made for you

Because here's what we keep coming back to: you cannot truly choose people if you haven't first chosen yourself. This conversation is the starting place.

Thought-provoking Quotes:

When I observe someone making a polite but clear boundary, I respect it. I’m impressed. – Jen Hatmaker

Can you come to the place where you admit, I miss myself? And myself is not my labor. Myself is not my role. Myself is a living soul and one of the things that feeds my soul are my friendships but those got neglected because I was told that to be a good leader or to be a good mom, I had to deprioritize the things that nourished me. – Dr. Thema Bryant

If a community is not ready-made, something for you to join, it’s something for you to create. – Dr. Thema Bryant

Our wellness is more important than our loyalty. – Dr. Thema Bryant

If you have the tendency of picking people who don’t pick you, you’re not emotionally available. If you were emotionally available when there was nothing flowing back to you, you would shift. But if you fear intimacy, closeness, or being seen and known, you will continue to pursue that which is fleeing you, because it is safer. This is true in friendships and romantic relationships. – Dr. Thema Bryant

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Matters of the Heart: Healing Your Relationship with Yourself and Those You Love by Dr. Thema Bryant - https://amzn.to/40XMql6

Homecoming: Overcome Fear and Trauma to Reclaim Your Whole, Authentic Self by Dr. Thema Bryant - https://amzn.to/4hVYQ4c

The Homecoming Podcast with Dr. Thema Bryant - https://soundcloud.com/dr-thema-bryant-davis

Guest’s Links:

Thema’s website - https://drthema.com/

Thema’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/dr.thema/

Thema’s Twitter - https://x.com/drthema

Description:There are artists whose music marks a moment—and then there are the ones whose songs stay with us for a lifetime.

This week, Jen sits down with beloved returning guest Amy Grant to talk about her long-awaited new album, a project shaped by time, reflection, and a life that’s been fully lived. After a significant health crisis and a slow, intentional return to music, Amy is creating from a place that feels more open, more grounded, and more honest than ever.

Together, they talk about what it means to come back to yourself after everything changes, how creativity evolves over decades, and why the stories we tell later in life often carry a different kind of weight. Amy shares how her songwriting has shifted, the role of memory and perspective in this new work, and what it looks like to keep making meaningful art in a season that feels both quieter and more expansive.

At the heart of both this album and this conversation is Amy’s quiet but steady intention to be a witness—to tell the truth about a life as it’s being lived, and to honor the people who have shown up along the way. From deeply personal songs shaped by love and loss to collaborations with her husband, Vince Gill, and her daughters, this record reflects not just where Amy is now, but who has helped her get here.

This conversation is thoughtful, unhurried, and full of the kind of wisdom that only comes from living a long time and staying curious along the way.

Thought-provoking Quotes:

“Many times our limitations create a new path for us.” – Amy Grant

“The great thing about being 65 is that you can be a witness to everyone and to yourself.” – Amy Grant

“In my sixties, I’ve realized this is a different landscape and I've got to have to welcome myself differently.” – Amy Grant

"I just think there is something that happens in your sixties that you just stop fighting it and you welcome it." - Amy Grant

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Amy Grant - The Me That Remains - https://30tgrs.ffm.to/themethatremains

Vince Gill - https://www.vincegill.com/

Tom Douglas, songwriter - https://www.instagram.com/tomdouglasmusic

Mac MacAnally - https://macmcanally.com/

Brandi Carlile - https://www.brandicarlile.com/

Three Wishes on NBC - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0460685/

Jimmy Gentry, WWII veteran - https://www.franklintn.gov/Home/Components/News/News/11185/83

Amy Grant - Baby, Baby - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnAD2Tb-SE8

Guest’s Links:

Website - https://www.amygrant.com/

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/amygrantofficial/

Twitter - https://x.com/amygrant

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/amygrant/

Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZSki0usQ84d5c ...

Description:This month in the Jen Hatmaker Book Club, we’re reading a novel that doesn’t just tell a story—it inhabits one.

Jen sits down with author Maddie Mortimer to talk about Maps of Our Spectacular Bodies, a breathtaking and formally inventive debut that explores what it means to live inside a body that is changing, remembering, and, ultimately, letting go. At the center is Lia, a woman living with terminal cancer—but this story unfolds as a chorus, with voices that include her family, her own inner world, and even the cancer itself.

Together, Jen and Maddie explore the deeply personal roots of the novel, including Maddie’s own experience of losing her mother, and how that grief shaped the book’s emotional precision. They talk about why she chose to move beyond a traditional narrative and instead capture the feeling of illness—the disorientation, the fractured sense of time, and the way memory lives not just in the mind, but in the body.

They also tap into the book’s striking structure—the visual and sensory journey it creates for readers—and how that imaginative form is now being adapted for the stage, bringing the story full circle to Maddie’s theatrical roots.

In this conversation, we consider what it means to listen to the body as a narrator, how love shows up in the smallest moments, and why stories like this invite us to pay closer attention to the life we are living right now.

This one is tender, surprising, and quietly unforgettable.

Thought-provoking Quotes:

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Guest’s Links:

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/maddiemortimer/

Twitter - https://x.com/MaddieMortimer

Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker

The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.

★ “For me, the writing process was much more about thinking of cancer and the way that it moves through language and how language can metastasize on the page and the rhythm of this incredibly hyperactive virus, this illness kind of consuming a body, the way that a dark thought could consume a mind.” – Maddie Mortimer★ “I'm quite a restless reader and I think I get bored quite quickly. What I look for in books is that immediacy of how exciting a sentence is or how funny or moving or strange it is.” – Maddie Mortimer ★ “So much of the process of putting words on a page and writing fiction, specifically, is that you surrender yourself. I think it's less about me feeling like I know anything or have anything to say, but more about removing myself so that you feel like you're listening to the world and to the people that you've met, and the impressions that you, your body, whatever, have absorbed.” – Maddie Mortimer★ “The realm of the playground is the page. It’s where anything goes.” – Maddie Mortimer★ “There's something really special about a group of people in a room that are willing to give their time to writers reading their words. It’s got that kind of religious, congregational quality to it.” – Maddie Mortimer➢ Maps of Our Spectacular Bodies by Maddie Mortimer - https://amzn.to/3NRIPCC➢ 

Description:If you’ve ever felt the quiet fear of placing your body—and your baby—into a healthcare system you don’t fully understand, this conversation is for you.

Today, Jen and Amy sit down with labor and delivery nurse, educator, and internet big sister Jen Hamilton to talk about her brand-new “book baby,” Birth Vibes. With more than a decade at the bedside and millions who trust her honest, compassionate voice, Jen has become a steady guide in one of life’s most vulnerable moments.

In this episode, we pull back the curtain on the delivery room—the expectations, fears, and surprises—and talk about what it actually means to feel prepared. Not in a rigid, checklist kind of way, but in a deeply personal, values-driven way. Because as Jen reminds us, birth isn’t something you control—it’s something you move through.

Today, we talk about:

Why “perfect birth plans” often set us up for disappointment—and what to hold onto instead

How to discover your own “birth vibes”—that blend of values, intuition, and informed choice that helps you advocate for yourself

What it’s like to hold both roles—healthcare provider and influencer—with integrity in today’s world

How even when birth doesn’t go as planned, it can still be empowering, informed, and deeply ours

Whether you’re expecting, supporting someone who is, or simply curious about the intersection of care, advocacy, and the body’s wisdom, this conversation will leave you feeling steadier, braver, and less alone.

Because at the end of the day, this isn’t just about birth. It’s about learning to trust yourself in the middle of something you can’t fully control—and finding your voice anyway.

Thought-provoking Quotes:

“What an honor to be with people during the most vulnerable and impactful moments of their life.” – Jen Hamilton

“I can watch someone have a birth that goes completely to plan but if they do not feel heard, respected, and empowered, they can leave that experience having negative feelings about what happened. And then, you can have somebody whose birth goes completely off the rails and they leave that experience looking back positively on it if they were heard, respected, empowered, and informed. It has so little to do with what happens and so much more to do with how it happens.” – Jen Hamilton

“Birth plans are as individual as you are as a human.” – Jen Hamilton

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Birth Vibes: Stories and Strategies for an Empowered Birth by Jen Hamilton – https://amzn.to/4sXMrlp

Birth Vibes Audiobook – https://amzn.to/4sXMwFJ

Trauma: Life in the ER – https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0215445/

A Baby Story on TLC – https://go.tlc.com/show/a-baby-story-tlc-atve-us

Nurse Hadley – https://nursehadley.com/

Read the Red Letters Video - https://www.instagram.com/reel/DKVrukwub7O/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==

Huff Post | This Viral Video Has People Talking About Christianity Vs 'MAGA Christianity' – https://www.huffpost.com/entry/this-viral-video-h ...

Description:This week, Jen and Amy sit down with actress, model, entrepreneur, and Lipstick on the Rim host Molly Sims for a conversation that starts light and breezy—backstage at a Hello Sunshine Shine Away event—and quickly moves into something deeper: what it’s like to live in a body that’s been watched, evaluated, and monetized for decades… and how your relationship to that body inevitably changes over time.

Molly has spent most of her life being seen. But what she shares here is what it’s taken to actually see herself.

Today, the discussion centers around the quiet (and sometimes jarring) shift into midlife. Molly opens up about figuring it out in real time, what surprised her most about this chapter, and the unexpected places where things have gotten easier.

There’s also an honest look at what it means to keep showing up in an industry with very loud opinions about women’s bodies—and how Molly now navigates beauty, skincare, procedures, and wellness without losing herself in the process. Where’s the line between empowerment and pressure? And who gets to decide?

But this conversation doesn’t stay theoretical. It lands in real life—in marriage, in motherhood, in the everyday negotiations of confidence and insecurity, and in the intentional ways Molly is trying to give her daughter a different starting point than the one she was handed.

Along the way, the discussion turns to influence, identity, and the kinds of conversations Molly is creating now that she wasn’t having earlier in her career. And in one of the most tender moments of the episode, she reflects on what she would say to her younger self—not to fix her, but just to sit beside her with a little more perspective.

This one feels like sitting across from someone who’s done a lot of living—and is finally comfortable telling the truth about it.

Thought-provoking Quotes:

“To be in on something from the inception has given me a lot of fire to keep going.” – Molly Sims

“My resilient wall of armor is very strong. I've been told I'm too fat, I'm too tall, I'm too dark, I'm too blonde. Sometimes shit needs to go wrong to give you that, okay, let's cry ourselves out of this hole and pull ourselves out.” – Molly Sims

“To be in your forties and not have the energy of being in your twenties is a lot. It’s a lot. It’s a lot.” – Molly Sims

“In my fifties, I’m more confident, I’m calmer, and I can handle a lot. But, I get tired.” – Molly Sims

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Raygun What The Hell Is Going On Here Tee - https://www.raygunsite.com/collections/home-page-special/products/what-the-hell

Hello Sunshine Shine Away Event - https://hello-sunshine.com/shineaway-2/ 

YSE BEAUTY - https://www.ysebeauty.com/  |  Get a 15% discount at YSE Beauty using the code FORTHELOVE15. Exclusions apply. 

Lipstick on the Rim podcast - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/lipstick-on-the-rim/id1560226129

Baby CO2 Laser Treatment

Xtreme Glow Dewey Peptide Plumping Serum - https://www.ysebeauty.com/products/xtreme-glow-serum

Organic I ...

We Will Not Be Aging Quietly: Claiming Your Most Powerful Season with Katie Fogarty

Description:

What if the years everyone warned you about turned out to be the ones you'd been waiting for?

Today, Jen and Amy sit down with Katie Fogarty—a former journalist, career coach, and the voice behind one of the most vibrant midlife podcasts in the country, called A Certain Age—for an honest, energizing hour about what it really means to thrive in this season.

Katie launched A Certain Age thirty-five days before her 51st birthday with one mission: blow up the narrative that women become less relevant as they get older. Five years and 230-plus episodes later, she's interviewed hundreds of midlife women—and she has thoughts. Big ones.

They dig into the myths about midlife that refuse to die, why Katie calls this season an "accelerant" rather than an obstacle, what it looks like when women stop waiting for permission and start claiming their lives—and what she's hearing that gives her real hope for the women coming behind us.

If you've ever felt like midlife was quietly trying to make you smaller—this episode is your push back.

Thought-provoking Quotes:

“Sometimes the word ‘reinventing’ implies we're completely changing our lives and getting rid of everything that came before. It's more about reimagining, because we're drawing on all of our expertise to apply it in new ways, big and small.” – Katie Fogarty

“Midlife is that moment where you say, let me get going. The kids are grown, the career maybe is established, life is sort of on track, moving forward, and we have this moment with space in our brain, maybe on our calendar, to actually hit go on whatever it is we've been thinking about for so long.” – Katie Fogarty

“If you are feeling disconnected from relationships, or like you're not being supported, find people that you are visible to. There are communities of people out there who care about what you care about, who want to see you, who will see you.” – Katie Fogarty

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Jen’s first colonoscopy - https://www.instagram.com/reel/DWz8nTvgo6p/

Sophie Grégoire Trudeau on Life, Emotional Regulation and Midlife Reinventions - https://www.acertainagepod.com/shows/sophie-grgoire-trudeau-on-life-emotional-regulation-and-midlife-reinventions

Tamsen Fadal - https://www.tamsenfadal.com/

Grown Woman Talk: Your Guide to Getting and Staying Healthy by Dr. Sharon Malone - https://amzn.to/4t14kQY

The New Perimenopause: What’s Actually Happening to Your Body with Dr. Mary Claire Haver - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/the-new-perimenopause-whats-actually-happening-to-your-body-with-dr-mary-claire-haver/

When Life Happens: The Mindset Shift You Need to Manage Stress, Build Confidence, and Break Free by Dr. Rachel Goldman - https://amzn.to/4mnvZsY

Midlife Private Parts: Revealing Essays That Will Change the Way You Think About Age - https://www.midlifeprivatepa ...

Description:If any conversation belongs squarely in our “The Body Knows: Midlife In Our Skin” series, it’s this one, and for one simple reason — pleasure is a body conversation. Desire is a body conversation. And if midlife has shifted how you feel in your own skin, this episode meets you exactly there.

Vanessa Marin is a licensed psychotherapist, sex educator, and bestselling author of Sex Talks: The Five Conversations That Will Transform Your Love Life, co-written with her husband Xander. With over two decades of experience helping people dismantle shame and build genuinely intimate relationships, Vanessa brings the kind of candid, warm, and disarmingly funny voice this conversation has always needed.

Whether you're partnered or solo, whether your sex life feels complicated or just quietly neglected, whether you're carrying shame you never asked for — this one is for you. Vanessa is here to help us say yes to communication, to connection, and maybe most of all, to pleasure.

Here's what we're getting into:

Why so many of us have deeply wired, shame-rooted reactions to sex — and where they actually come from

Why Vanessa says you should start having sex like a man (yes, really)

The myth about the female orgasm that most of us were never taught the truth about

The best things you can do for your sex life that have nothing to do with taking your clothes off

The difference between spontaneous and responsive desire — and why understanding this might change everything

Thought-provoking Quotes:

“Despite not getting a great introduction to sex or intimacy or relationships, I had this intuitive sense that there should be joy with this act. There should be connection and intimacy, and it should be something I should feel excited to explore when the time is right.” – Vanessa Marin

“This is literally what I am here on this earth for, is to help people get more comfortable talking about sex, connection, and intimacy.” – Vanessa Marin

“A lot of people hear, she's a sex therapist. They must have this incredible sex life. The reality is, we've been through ups and downs, too. I am not immune to the water that we all have been swimming in. I've internalized plenty of crap myself. And so I want people to understand we are all struggling to keep that spark alive in one way or another. We are all struggling with our sex lives, with our bodies in one way or another.” – Vanessa Marin

Research has shown that in male-female relationships, women are carrying the vast majority of the mental load. There is so much that is going through our heads on a daily basis—all this tracking, and preparing, and anticipating, and evaluating, our heads are just constantly going. And when you have so much in your brain, it makes it really hard to make the space for intimacy and desire too.” – Vanessa Marin

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Sex Talks: The Five Conversations That Will Transform Your Love Life by Vanessa Marin and Xander Marin - https://amzn.to/43VSwnS

The Sex Talks Card Deck and Guidebook: 90 Prompts to Deepen Connection and Spark Intimacy - https://amzn.to/3Hys1xa

Vanessa and Xander’s Deeper Monthly Membership - https://buy.vmtherapy.com/deeper

Guest’s Links:

Website - https://vmtherapy.com/about