Description:If you’ve ever felt the quiet fear of placing your body—and your baby—into a healthcare system you don’t fully understand, this conversation is for you.

Today, Jen and Amy sit down with labor and delivery nurse, educator, and internet big sister Jen Hamilton to talk about her brand-new “book baby,” Birth Vibes. With more than a decade at the bedside and millions who trust her honest, compassionate voice, Jen has become a steady guide in one of life’s most vulnerable moments.

In this episode, we pull back the curtain on the delivery room—the expectations, fears, and surprises—and talk about what it actually means to feel prepared. Not in a rigid, checklist kind of way, but in a deeply personal, values-driven way. Because as Jen reminds us, birth isn’t something you control—it’s something you move through.

Today, we talk about:

Why “perfect birth plans” often set us up for disappointment—and what to hold onto instead

How to discover your own “birth vibes”—that blend of values, intuition, and informed choice that helps you advocate for yourself

What it’s like to hold both roles—healthcare provider and influencer—with integrity in today’s world

How even when birth doesn’t go as planned, it can still be empowering, informed, and deeply ours

Whether you’re expecting, supporting someone who is, or simply curious about the intersection of care, advocacy, and the body’s wisdom, this conversation will leave you feeling steadier, braver, and less alone.

Because at the end of the day, this isn’t just about birth. It’s about learning to trust yourself in the middle of something you can’t fully control—and finding your voice anyway.

Thought-provoking Quotes:

“What an honor to be with people during the most vulnerable and impactful moments of their life.” – Jen Hamilton

“I can watch someone have a birth that goes completely to plan but if they do not feel heard, respected, and empowered, they can leave that experience having negative feelings about what happened. And then, you can have somebody whose birth goes completely off the rails and they leave that experience looking back positively on it if they were heard, respected, empowered, and informed. It has so little to do with what happens and so much more to do with how it happens.” – Jen Hamilton

“Birth plans are as individual as you are as a human.” – Jen Hamilton

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Birth Vibes: Stories and Strategies for an Empowered Birth by Jen Hamilton – https://amzn.to/4sXMrlp

Birth Vibes Audiobook – https://amzn.to/4sXMwFJ

Trauma: Life in the ER – https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0215445/

A Baby Story on TLC – https://go.tlc.com/show/a-baby-story-tlc-atve-us

Nurse Hadley – https://nursehadley.com/

Read the Red Letters Video - https://www.instagram.com/reel/DKVrukwub7O/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==

Huff Post | This Viral Video Has People Talking About Christianity Vs 'MAGA Christianity' – https://www.huffpost.com/entry/this-viral-video-h ...

Description:This week, Jen and Amy sit down with actress, model, entrepreneur, and Lipstick on the Rim host Molly Sims for a conversation that starts light and breezy—backstage at a Hello Sunshine Shine Away event—and quickly moves into something deeper: what it’s like to live in a body that’s been watched, evaluated, and monetized for decades… and how your relationship to that body inevitably changes over time.

Molly has spent most of her life being seen. But what she shares here is what it’s taken to actually see herself.

Today, the discussion centers around the quiet (and sometimes jarring) shift into midlife. Molly opens up about figuring it out in real time, what surprised her most about this chapter, and the unexpected places where things have gotten easier.

There’s also an honest look at what it means to keep showing up in an industry with very loud opinions about women’s bodies—and how Molly now navigates beauty, skincare, procedures, and wellness without losing herself in the process. Where’s the line between empowerment and pressure? And who gets to decide?

But this conversation doesn’t stay theoretical. It lands in real life—in marriage, in motherhood, in the everyday negotiations of confidence and insecurity, and in the intentional ways Molly is trying to give her daughter a different starting point than the one she was handed.

Along the way, the discussion turns to influence, identity, and the kinds of conversations Molly is creating now that she wasn’t having earlier in her career. And in one of the most tender moments of the episode, she reflects on what she would say to her younger self—not to fix her, but just to sit beside her with a little more perspective.

This one feels like sitting across from someone who’s done a lot of living—and is finally comfortable telling the truth about it.

Thought-provoking Quotes:

“To be in on something from the inception has given me a lot of fire to keep going.” – Molly Sims

“My resilient wall of armor is very strong. I've been told I'm too fat, I'm too tall, I'm too dark, I'm too blonde. Sometimes shit needs to go wrong to give you that, okay, let's cry ourselves out of this hole and pull ourselves out.” – Molly Sims

“To be in your forties and not have the energy of being in your twenties is a lot. It’s a lot. It’s a lot.” – Molly Sims

“In my fifties, I’m more confident, I’m calmer, and I can handle a lot. But, I get tired.” – Molly Sims

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Raygun What The Hell Is Going On Here Tee - https://www.raygunsite.com/collections/home-page-special/products/what-the-hell

Hello Sunshine Shine Away Event - https://hello-sunshine.com/shineaway-2/ 

YSE BEAUTY - https://www.ysebeauty.com/  |  Get a 15% discount at YSE Beauty using the code FORTHELOVE15. Exclusions apply. 

Lipstick on the Rim podcast - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/lipstick-on-the-rim/id1560226129

Baby CO2 Laser Treatment

Xtreme Glow Dewey Peptide Plumping Serum - https://www.ysebeauty.com/products/xtreme-glow-serum

Organic I ...

We Will Not Be Aging Quietly: Claiming Your Most Powerful Season with Katie Fogarty

Description:

What if the years everyone warned you about turned out to be the ones you'd been waiting for?

Today, Jen and Amy sit down with Katie Fogarty—a former journalist, career coach, and the voice behind one of the most vibrant midlife podcasts in the country, called A Certain Age—for an honest, energizing hour about what it really means to thrive in this season.

Katie launched A Certain Age thirty-five days before her 51st birthday with one mission: blow up the narrative that women become less relevant as they get older. Five years and 230-plus episodes later, she's interviewed hundreds of midlife women—and she has thoughts. Big ones.

They dig into the myths about midlife that refuse to die, why Katie calls this season an "accelerant" rather than an obstacle, what it looks like when women stop waiting for permission and start claiming their lives—and what she's hearing that gives her real hope for the women coming behind us.

If you've ever felt like midlife was quietly trying to make you smaller—this episode is your push back.

Thought-provoking Quotes:

“Sometimes the word ‘reinventing’ implies we're completely changing our lives and getting rid of everything that came before. It's more about reimagining, because we're drawing on all of our expertise to apply it in new ways, big and small.” – Katie Fogarty

“Midlife is that moment where you say, let me get going. The kids are grown, the career maybe is established, life is sort of on track, moving forward, and we have this moment with space in our brain, maybe on our calendar, to actually hit go on whatever it is we've been thinking about for so long.” – Katie Fogarty

“If you are feeling disconnected from relationships, or like you're not being supported, find people that you are visible to. There are communities of people out there who care about what you care about, who want to see you, who will see you.” – Katie Fogarty

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Jen’s first colonoscopy - https://www.instagram.com/reel/DWz8nTvgo6p/

Sophie Grégoire Trudeau on Life, Emotional Regulation and Midlife Reinventions - https://www.acertainagepod.com/shows/sophie-grgoire-trudeau-on-life-emotional-regulation-and-midlife-reinventions

Tamsen Fadal - https://www.tamsenfadal.com/

Grown Woman Talk: Your Guide to Getting and Staying Healthy by Dr. Sharon Malone - https://amzn.to/4t14kQY

The New Perimenopause: What’s Actually Happening to Your Body with Dr. Mary Claire Haver - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/the-new-perimenopause-whats-actually-happening-to-your-body-with-dr-mary-claire-haver/

When Life Happens: The Mindset Shift You Need to Manage Stress, Build Confidence, and Break Free by Dr. Rachel Goldman - https://amzn.to/4mnvZsY

Midlife Private Parts: Revealing Essays That Will Change the Way You Think About Age - https://www.midlifeprivatepa ...

Description:If any conversation belongs squarely in our “The Body Knows: Midlife In Our Skin” series, it’s this one, and for one simple reason — pleasure is a body conversation. Desire is a body conversation. And if midlife has shifted how you feel in your own skin, this episode meets you exactly there.

Vanessa Marin is a licensed psychotherapist, sex educator, and bestselling author of Sex Talks: The Five Conversations That Will Transform Your Love Life, co-written with her husband Xander. With over two decades of experience helping people dismantle shame and build genuinely intimate relationships, Vanessa brings the kind of candid, warm, and disarmingly funny voice this conversation has always needed.

Whether you're partnered or solo, whether your sex life feels complicated or just quietly neglected, whether you're carrying shame you never asked for — this one is for you. Vanessa is here to help us say yes to communication, to connection, and maybe most of all, to pleasure.

Here's what we're getting into:

Why so many of us have deeply wired, shame-rooted reactions to sex — and where they actually come from

Why Vanessa says you should start having sex like a man (yes, really)

The myth about the female orgasm that most of us were never taught the truth about

The best things you can do for your sex life that have nothing to do with taking your clothes off

The difference between spontaneous and responsive desire — and why understanding this might change everything

Thought-provoking Quotes:

“Despite not getting a great introduction to sex or intimacy or relationships, I had this intuitive sense that there should be joy with this act. There should be connection and intimacy, and it should be something I should feel excited to explore when the time is right.” – Vanessa Marin

“This is literally what I am here on this earth for, is to help people get more comfortable talking about sex, connection, and intimacy.” – Vanessa Marin

“A lot of people hear, she's a sex therapist. They must have this incredible sex life. The reality is, we've been through ups and downs, too. I am not immune to the water that we all have been swimming in. I've internalized plenty of crap myself. And so I want people to understand we are all struggling to keep that spark alive in one way or another. We are all struggling with our sex lives, with our bodies in one way or another.” – Vanessa Marin

Research has shown that in male-female relationships, women are carrying the vast majority of the mental load. There is so much that is going through our heads on a daily basis—all this tracking, and preparing, and anticipating, and evaluating, our heads are just constantly going. And when you have so much in your brain, it makes it really hard to make the space for intimacy and desire too.” – Vanessa Marin

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Sex Talks: The Five Conversations That Will Transform Your Love Life by Vanessa Marin and Xander Marin - https://amzn.to/43VSwnS

The Sex Talks Card Deck and Guidebook: 90 Prompts to Deepen Connection and Spark Intimacy - https://amzn.to/3Hys1xa

Vanessa and Xander’s Deeper Monthly Membership - https://buy.vmtherapy.com/deeper

Guest’s Links:

Website - https://vmtherapy.com/about

Description:This week, Jen and Amy sit down with double board-certified OB-GYN and reproductive endocrinologist Dr. Natalie Crawford, author of The Fertility Formula, for a wide-ranging conversation about hormones, inflammation, stress, and the powerful (and often misunderstood) signals our bodies are constantly sending.

While Dr. Crawford’s work is rooted in fertility, this episode zooms out to something much bigger: how hormone health reflects our overall well-being — and why midlife is often the moment when the body stops whispering and starts speaking clearly.

But this conversation isn’t just for women trying to get pregnant.

It’s for women in perimenopause and menopause wondering what their bodies are doing now — and why. Because fertility is more than reproduction; it’s a health marker. The same patterns that shape our fertility years — inflammation, hormone signaling, metabolic health, stress — also influence how we experience menopause, what symptoms show up, and what kinds of support our bodies will need.

And it’s also for women stepping into the grandparent years — who want to better understand what their daughters, daughters-in-law, and younger women in their lives are navigating. Because the more we understand our own bodies, the more compassion and clarity we bring to the next generation.

Together, they unpack:

Why your menstrual cycle (even in its changes) is one of your most important health indicators

Natalie’s experience with pregnancy loss and how it shaped her approach to women’s health

The effects of societal and political shifts on women’s reproductive choices

How cycle awareness can support both fertility outcomes and menopause transitions

Whether or not you are thinking about fertility — or are long past that season — this conversation reframes it as something more expansive: a reflection of vitality, resilience, and how supported your body truly feels across every stage of life.

Thought-provoking Quotes:

“We’re living in a different era now, luckily, where women are demanding more knowledge about their bodies.” – Dr. Natalie Crawford

“I think that my own experience reframed how I educate my patients and the public in taking charge and learning how to listen to your body and believe it. What are those little red flags—whether it's my cycle, whether it's symptoms, whether it's fatigue, and how do I get answers or try to modify those so that I can have more control over what is happening to me?” – Dr. Natalie Crawford

“Anybody who's trying to sell you a quick fix, especially if it comes in a bottle, is most likely not in your best interest. That doesn't mean there aren't medications or supplements that can help, but that comes after you've done what you can do.” – Dr. Natalie Crawford

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

The Fertility Formula: Take Control of Your Reproductive Future by Dr. Natalie Crawford – https://amzn.to/47HZ1NR

The New Perimenopause: What’s Actually Happening to Your Body with Dr. Mary Claire Haver - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/the-new-perimenopause-whats-actually-happening-to-your-body-with-dr-mary-claire-haver/

Fora Fertility Clinic– https://www.forafertility.com/

Guest’s Links:

Website - https://www.nataliecrawfordmd.com/

...

Description:Some stories feel less like books and more like quiet companions. Theo of Golden is one of those.

This month in the Jen Hatmaker Book Club, Jen sits down with author Allen Levi to talk about the small-town novel that has quietly captured the hearts of readers around the world. Set in the fictional town of Golden, Georgia, the story introduces us to Theo — a mysterious newcomer whose little shop becomes an unlikely gathering place for the people around him. As neighbors wander in carrying grief, questions, regrets, and ordinary Tuesdays, something remarkable begins to happen: lives shift, wounds soften, and the quiet work of grace unfolds in the most unexpected ways.

But Allen’s path to writing Theo of Golden is a story of its own.

Before this book found its way into readers’ hands, Allen spent decades living another life — as a litigator and as a musician and songwriter, telling stories in courtrooms and through songs long before he ever sat down to write a novel. In this conversation, Jen and Allen talk about how those two worlds — law and music — shaped the storyteller he would eventually become, and how the long arc of a creative life sometimes leads us somewhere we never expected.

Together, Jen and Allen talk about the beauty of slow stories, the sacredness hiding in ordinary places, and why the most transformative moments in life rarely arrive with fanfare. They explore the characters of Golden, the themes of redemption and belonging woven through the book, and the deeper invitation at the heart of Theo’s story — to pay attention to the people and moments right in front of us.

If you’ve ever believed that kindness still matters, that communities can heal one conversation at a time, or that ordinary lives are full of extraordinary grace, this conversation will feel like coming home.

Grab your coffee, pull up a chair, and join Jen and Allen Levi for a conversation about stories, second acts, and the quiet magic that happens when people really see one another.

Thought-provoking Quotes:

“All through the writing of the book, I cried and cried and I'm not an easy crier, but I fell in love with these characters. They still kind of inhabit the space around me. But it told me that there was something bigger going on than just the story. Maybe the better angels of our nature are waking up and bringing something to the surface that maybe is good for us. I hope so.” – Allen Levi

“I have heard, if you want to write, you just sit down with a pen and you start writing and the story will bubble up. And so I did that and the story never bubbled up. It just frustrated me and frustrated me. That's why I quit so many times, but eventually it started coming together almost like writing a song.” – Allen Levi

“Everything that I've done professionally has required me to use words to tell stories, usually to persuade people. As a lawyer, I did that. As a singer songwriter, I did that. And now as a novelist.”– Allen Levi

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Theo of Golden: A Novel by Allen Levi - https://amzn.to/47J6V9p

Allen Levi’s Music - https://open.spotify.com/artist/2UaP04apWp23PxnhKQHJgx?si=3tzeCi3HROqRampni92Dew

Jen Hatmaker Book Club - https://shop.jenhatmaker.com/collections/book-club

Alan Bradley - https://alanbradleyauthor.com/

Description:If you’ve ever whispered, Is this it?—if you’ve been doing “all the right things” and still feel that unfinished ache humming under your skin—go ahead and hit download.

Jen is joined by her beloved friend (and actual genius) Kate Bowler to talk about her new book, Joyful Anyway—a bracing, funny, tender rebellion against the optimization industrial complex. This is not a “choose joy” pep talk where somebody sprints past you tossing a Live Laugh Love pillow at your face. Kate is here for the after: after the before-and-after story didn’t pan out, after grief and guilt and longing set up permanent residence, after you realized happiness is fragile and reality keeps kicking in.

Together, Jen, Amy, and Kate name what so many of us can’t quite articulate: the ache—that “achy, stabby want” at the center of our lived experience. They talk about why we need permission just to be human, why “performing resilience” is exhausting, and how telling the truth can loosen the grip of the story that’s been swallowing the rest of our life.

Kate also shares an unforgettable story about a snake bite, an ER, and a moment of unexpected mercy that cracked something open—proof that joy doesn’t always come through the front door. Sometimes it slips in sideways, like grace. Like a sudden, full-bodied yes—even when nothing is resolved.

You’ll also hear about:

The difference between happiness (fragile and expensive) and joy (sneaky, un-schedulable, and—somehow—free)

How joy finds us through embodied moments—beauty, absurdity, paying attention

The Burn Book / Resentment List and why making a “this scarred me, this counted” list might be the most faithful thing you do all week (including Kate’s deeply personal grievance about her tragically unaesthetic family gravesite)

Roadside Joy Detours: Kate’s practice of putting herself “in the way of joy” with absurd road trips to local oddities

And Kate’s reminder: you are a song—don’t die with it still inside you

Bottom line: if you’re quietly undone, if your body feels weary, if the headlines have you spiraling—Kate is here with permission, language, and a weird little flashlight. The ache stays. But joy still shows up. Sometimes as grace. Sometimes as absurdity. Sometimes as a roadside attraction you drove two hours to see for no reason—except you’re alive, and that’s reason enough.

Thought-provoking Quotes:

“I think there's a great mystery at the heart of the human experience and I wanted to explore joy as one of those unbelievable places.” – Kate Bowler

“The purpose of that ache inside you is to get you to re-examine how it feels in your body, bring your honesty to it, and then ask, where can I go from here? Where can this take me that's lovelier than here?” – Kate Bowler

“I find that absurdity is one of the side doors to joy.” – Kate Bowler

“Joy is asking us to step up to the edge of a mystery where we get momentary fulfillment and then we get life. And God is asking us to say that this is holy.” – Kate Bowler

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Joyful Anyway by Kate Bowler - https://amzn.to/3ZWqNBT

Kate Bowler book tour - https://katebowler.com/books/joyfulanyway/#tour

Theo of Golden: A Novel by Allen Levi- https://amzn.to/4bdpN2q

Guest’s Links:

Website< ...

Description:What does it mean to be okay when nothing is okay?

Not fixed.

Not optimized.

Not cured.

Just… okay.

This week, Jen and Amy sit down with bestselling author and professional weirdo Jenny Lawson to talk about surviving — and sometimes even thriving — inside a brain that does not always cooperate. Jenny’s new book, How to Be Okay When Nothing Is Okay, is a field guide for tender humans: a collection of tiny tools for when the big solutions feel impossible.

Today, we talk about:

Living with “tiny erratic squirrels” in your head

Why imposter syndrome gets louder with success

Learning to live within your real capacity

Why you’re not failing if it’s just not for you

Helpful tools like “weird walks”, “body doubling”, “writing Zooms”, 

The radical courage of simply staying

This conversation explores what happens when we stop trying to override our nervous systems and start listening to them instead. Midlife has a way of stripping away illusion — about productivity, about comparison, about who we’re supposed to be.

Jenny reminds us that sometimes grit looks like finishing the book. And sometimes it looks like taking a drink of water and calling it enough.

If you are exhausted, if you feel behind, if your brain tells you you’re the only one struggling – YOU ARE NOT ALONE. And being “still here” is no small thing.

Thought-provoking Quotes:

“Self-help books are super helpful for the right kind of person but I’m not that person.” – Jenny Lawson

“Keep in mind that what worked for you in the past might not necessarily work for you now or in the future, and that doesn't mean you failed. It just means that's an opportunity.” – Jenny Lawson

“If you throw humor into a really dark subject, it gives people permission to laugh. And then that big monster becomes so much smaller.” – Jenny Lawson

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

How to Be Okay When Nothing Is Okay: Tips and Tricks That Kept Me Alive, Happy, and Creative in Spite of Myself by Jenny Lawson – https://amzn.to/4qWKZi5

Samantha Irby – https://www.samanthairby.com/

A Ghost and His Gold by Roberta Eaton Cheadle – https://amzn.to/405lMH8

Anne Rice – https://annerice.com/

Dean Koontz – https://www.deankoontz.com/

Mexican Gothic by Silvia Moreno-Garcia – https://amzn.to/475Qp31

Focusmate (Body Doubling App) -  https://www.focusmate.com/

Let's Pretend This Never Happened: (A Mostly True Memoir) by Jenny Lawson – https://amzn.to/4rGEBN7

Furiously Happy: A Funny Book About Horrible Things by Jenny Lawson – https://amzn.to/4u4RBxG

Broken (In The Best Possible Way) by Jenny Lawson – https://amzn.to/4r3Bhuh

Jenny Lawson Book Tour - https://thebloggess.com/2026/02/25/how-to-be-okay-when-nothing-is-okay-on-book-tour/

Description:For years, women in their late 30s and 40s have walked into doctors’ offices saying the same thing: “I don’t feel like myself.”

They’re exhausted but can’t sleep. Gaining weight but eating less. Anxious, foggy, irritable, disconnected. And too often, they’re told it’s stress. Aging. Depression. Just part of being a woman.

But what if it’s something else?

This week, Jen and Amy sit down with board-certified OB-GYN and menopause expert Dr. Mary Claire Haver to talk about what’s really happening in perimenopause — the hormonal transition that can begin years before your final period and affect nearly every system in your body.

Drawing from her new book The New Perimenopause, Dr. Haver explains:

Why the brain may be the first organ to notice hormone shifts

Why antidepressants are often prescribed before hormones are even discussed

The dangerous legacy of outdated research and underfunded women’s health

How bone density, cholesterol, muscle mass, mood, libido, and cognition are all connected

And why midlife is not a decline — but a powerful window of opportunity

This is not just a conversation about hot flashes. It’s about the “Zone of Chaos.” It’s about medical gaslighting. It’s about reclaiming your body as your ally, not your enemy.

If you’ve ever whispered, “What is wrong with me?” or spent your sleepless nights up Googling dramatic questions like “is my brain broken?” — this episode is for you.

You’re not broken. You’re not weak. And you are definitely not alone.

Thought-provoking Quotes:

“We got some bad f*cking advice…Power through! You built this life. You asked for this. Oh, and also be thin, and make yourself smaller, and don't take up space, and make sure you put everyone in your family before your needs. That's the only way you're gonna be rewarded, elevated, celebrated is on this altar of self-sacrifice. You know what that did for my mother and my grandmother? Dementia and sarcopenia. I’m saying we’re going to take a different path.” – Dr. Mary Claire Haver 

“Men build rockets. Women build healthcare systems.” – Dr. Mary Claire Haver 

“One of the good things about menopause is that women lose their give-a-shit filter.” – Dr. Mary Claire Haver

“I just want menopause to be taken half as seriously as erectile dysfunction.” – Dr. Mary Claire Haver

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

The New Perimenopause: An Evidence-Based Guide to Surviving the Zone of Chaos and Feeling Like Yourself Again by Dr. Mary Claire Haver – https://www.amazon.com/New-Perimenopause-Evidence-Based-Surviving-Yourself/dp/0593736613/

The New Menopause: Navigating Your Path Through Hormonal Change with Purpose, Power, and Facts by Dr. Mary Claire Haver - https://amzn.to/4aUtrx3

The Blue Lagoon film (1980) – https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080453/

Menopause.org

The International Society for the Study of Women’s Sexual Health (ISSWSH) - https://www.isswsh.org/

The Pause Life - https://thepauselife.com/

MidiHealth - https://www.joinmidi.com/

Guest’s Links:

Description:What do we do when the world feels like too much?

When the headlines won’t let up, when grief and uncertainty sit heavy in our bodies, when we’re carrying more than we ever thought we could—how do we keep going without numbing out or falling apart?

This week, Jen sits down with beloved writer and friend Shannan Martin to talk about her new book Counterweights, a tender, practical guide for living with hope in a heavy world.

At the center of Shannan’s work is a deceptively simple idea: when life gets heavy, we don’t eliminate the weight—we learn to carry something equally weighty in the other hand. Not balance. Not denial. But both/and.

Together, Jen and Shannan explore what it means to hold grief and joy at the same time, to resist despair without turning away from reality, and to find steady ground in the middle of it all. They talk about community as survival, faith that evolves and expands, and the small, ordinary moments that become lifelines when everything feels overwhelming.

This conversation is a fitting close to our Wilderness & Wonder exploration—because if the wilderness strips us down to what’s real, Shannan helps us ask: what will hold us up now?

If you’ve been feeling stretched thin, worn down, or just plain tired of carrying it all alone, this episode is for you.

Thought-provoking Quotes:

“Now, what are the things that are keeping me going? For me, it’s clawing for those little tiny moments where we can. I need to see myself take care of myself.” – Shannan Martin

“We have to carry a lot of really heavy things in one hand. We don't choose these things. We would never have asked for them. And we can't just put them down. We don't have control over them. We can't just set them aside. So how do we carry these heavy things? We fill the other hand with heavy goodness.” – Shannan Martin

“The world feels catastrophic right now. My bowl of curry for lunch cannot cancel that out. There's no amount of beautiful sunsets that can cancel out a diagnosis that nobody wants or these heavy, heavy things that we are tasked with carrying because balance is impossible.” – Shannan Martin

“When wholeness is our goal, beauty is our emergency.” – Shannan Martin

“Anytime I can disrupt the algorithm, I feel it in my body.” – Shannan Martin

“The abundant life is not getting all the things we ever wanted. The abundant life is you get this and this and the task now is to figure out how to carry it.” – Shannan Martin

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Counterweights: An Essential Practice for Holding Hope in a Heavy World by Shannan Martin - https://amzn.to/4sRdTRZ

David Chang - https://www.instagram.com/davidchang/

7: An Experimental Mutiny Against Excess by Jen Hatmaker

Rainer Maria Rilke - https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poets/rainer-maria-rilke

Sara Miles - https://sara-miles.squarespace.com/bio

Shannan Martin Book Tour - https://www.shannanmartin.com/counterweights-events

Guest’s Links:

Website - https://www.shannanmartin.com/