Description:

In today’s mind-bending episode, prepare to challenge everything you think you know. Today, we're inviting listeners into a radically inclusive conversation that reimagines ideas about communication, consciousness, and human connection.

Award-winning filmmaker and storyteller Ky Dickens joins us to discuss The Telepathy Tapes, her viral podcast documenting the lived experiences of nonspeaking individuals who communicate in ways long dismissed or misunderstood. Through careful listening, deep respect, and investigative rigor, the series challenges entrenched assumptions about intelligence, language, and who gets to be heard—and believed.

In conversation with hosts Jen and Amy, Ky explores how nonspeakers are expanding our understanding of connection beyond spoken language, giving insight into telepathic communication and shared consciousness. The episode centers the voices of a community historically excluded from public discourse and asks what becomes possible when we widen our definition of communication, dignity, and belonging.

Rather than sensationalizing the unexplained, this conversation treats nonspeakers as authoritative narrators of their own experiences—inviting listeners to confront ableism, reexamine bias, and consider how inclusion begins with attention.

Highlights from this Episode:

How nonspeaking individuals are redefining communication and agency

Dismissed yet fascinating topics like energy healing, animal communication, mediumship, and near-death experiences

“The Hill”: a shared metaphysical space described by nonspeakers as a site of connection

What these experiences reveal about consciousness, presence, and the enduring human need to belong

This episode is a powerful act of listening—one that expands empathy, affirms marginalized voices, and challenges audiences to imagine a more inclusive understanding of what it means to communicate and connect.

Thought-provoking Quotes:

“Maybe instead of fixing the brokenness in society, I should focus on fixing the brokenness in me and in humanity.” – Ky Dickens

“I don't think it's binary that people have to be that dogmatic about science, and we don't have to believe in everything. I think most of us are somewhere in the middle. We want to really investigate and understand the truth about the non-physical world, and it's not silly or unscientific or gullible to do so. I think it's a beautiful part of being alive.” – Ky Dickens

“One thing I have come to realize deeply is that science and spirituality are not enemies.” – Ky Dickens

“I have not met a single non-speaker who doesn't talk about people who've passed and about the very real existence of God in an afterlife.” – Ky Dickens

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

The Telepathy Tapes – https://thetelepathytapes.com/

BT Harman - https://btharman.com/welcome

Dr. Diane Hennacy Powell – https://drdianehennacy.com/

Elizabeth Gilbert – https://www.elizabethgilbert.com/

Rick Rubin - https://x.com/RickRubin

Gregory Shushan – https://www.gregoryshushan.com/

Jane Goodall – https://janegoodall.org/

Guest’s Links:

Website - https://thetelepathytapes.com/

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/thetelepathytapes/

Twitter - https://x.com/TelepathyTapes

Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPA5cHDlwkvTM7akXINZo9w

TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@telepathytapes

Podcast - https://open.spotify.com/show/1zigaPaUWO4G9SiFV0Kf1c

Connect with Jen!

Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker

The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:

We’re revisiting one of our most-loved conversations from this show—an exploration of how transformation takes shape in our lives and how we can bravely meet it, even when it’s terrifying.

In this encore episode, we look back on Jen’s conversation with poet and community-builder Joy Sullivan, whose own “chosen change” became a leap toward more sanity, more love, and more joy.

After years of living according to scripts written by others, Joy found herself standing at a crossroads, feeling the pull of something deeper and more true. What followed was a radical leap into the unknown—a move that reshaped her life, her faith, and her art, including her book ‘Instructions for Traveling West’ – a collection for anyone flinging themselves into their own fresh starts.

Together, she and Jen talk about the “incremental scoots” we make before the big leap, the beauty and ache of reinvention, and how stillness can become a sacred space for clarity. Joy shares her story of walking into the unknown and learning to trust her intuition along the way.

In this episode, we reflect on:

The difference between a change that happens to us and one we choose

Embracing loneliness and stillness as paths to self-discovery

Lessons that taught Joy to love herself more deeply

Why poetry gives language to what we cannot say aloud

If you’re feeling the pull toward something new but uncertain, this encore offers a gentle reminder that change—though often uncomfortable—is where our truest selves begin to emerge.

Thought-provoking Quotes:

"If the birds know how to migrate, if bears know when to hibernate, if nature knows when to move forward, it doesn't make any sense for us to not know that also." – Joy Sullivan

"It's so important to listen and to follow the rhythms that we're pulled to even if we don't know what we're leaping towards." – Amy Hardin

“First you must realize you're homesick for all the lives you're not living. Then you must commit to the road and the rising loneliness.” – Joy Sullivan

“You have to be careful what you write down—it performs this kind of beautiful, terrifying magic.” – Joy Sullivan

“Don’t compare yourself to someone who’s mid-leap. There were probably a lot of scoots to the edge before they launched.” – Joy Sullivan

“You don’t have to get the leap right every time. You just have to be willing to innovate midair.” – Joy Sullivan

“I had coded into my psyche what it meant to be a good woman. When I fractured those stories, my life expanded into possibility.” – Joy Sullivan

“If I take crumbs and call it a meal, if I stay in rooms where I’m not called beloved, then I’m in a cage of my own making.” – Joy Sullivan

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Flinging Ourselves Into Fresh Starts ft. Joy Sullivan – https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-61/flinging-ourselves-into-fresh-starts-ft-joy-sullivan/

Sustenance ((A Community of Poets and Writers founded by Joy Sullivan) - https://joysullivanpoet.com/sustenance

Necessary Salt (Joy Sullivan’s Substack Blog) - https://joysullivan.substack.com/

Instructions For Traveling West: Poems by Joy Sullivan - https://amzn.to/4qZTZ7l

Guest’s Links:

Website - https://joysullivanpoet.com/

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/joysullivanpoet/

Twitter - https://x.com/Joy_E_Sullivan

Substack - https://joysullivan.substack.com/

Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker

The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:

Today’s guest is someone whose work has touched millions of hearts around the world. You probably fell in love with her through her luminous debut memoir ‘From Scratch: A Memoir of Love, Sicily, and Finding Home’, which was later adapted into a limited series on Netflix and became a global success.

Tembi Locke has held many roles: accomplished author, producer, screenwriter, actor, artist, caregiver, child of divorce, mother through adoption, and widow to cancer. It is through her experiences in all of these spaces that Tembi has honed her ability to write, speak, and live from that rare place where grief and grace meet—where we can hold loss and love in the same breath.

Her newest work, Someday, Now, is an immersive, breathtaking, and deeply personal audio experience that takes us on a journey back to Sicily, a place layered with memory, love, and loss for Tembi, as she prepares to send her daughter off to college. Through reflection, family, and the beauty of place, Tembi invites us to consider what it means to re-nest—to reclaim identity, purpose, and joy in a season of profound transition.

Whether you’re launching a kid, starting over, or simply remembering how to listen to your own heart again, this episode will speak to you in this season.

Thought-provoking Quotes:

“Sometimes in sharing the hardest things, we actually feel less alone.” – Tembi Locke

“Sicily is that place of myth and nectar for me. It's one of those places on the planet that is supercharged with the best of what nature has to offer: sun, wind, the sea. It’s a beautiful place. It's the place I return to when there's something I don't quite understand and Sicily makes me have to listen to it.” – Tembi Locke

“I think when you get to midlife, you need to settle into yourself, be more present with yourself in order to show up for the big moments of change that are happening. Try to anchor in and be as present as possible.  Lean into the quiet spaces between the moments.” – Tembi Locke

“How can we make space as families and really as mothers at this inflection point to quiet the noise and busyness of life? How can we slow down time, and really mark the moment and honor it?” – Tembi Locke

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

From Scratch: A Memoir of Love, Sicily, and Finding Home by Tembi Locke - https://amzn.to/47s3ZhN

From Scratch on Netflix - https://www.netflix.com/title/81104486

Attica Locke - https://www.atticalocke.com/

Someday, Now: A Memoir of Family, Reclaiming Possibility, and One Sicilian Summer by Tembi Locke - https://amzn.to/3LLKUyA

Guest’s Links:

Website - https://www.tembilocke.com/

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/tembilocke/

Podcast - https://www.tembilocke.com/podcast

Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker

The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. 

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:

Tune in for this very special #JenHatmakerBookClub episode where Jen gives unprecedented access to look behind the scenes at her own writing process and collaboration that went into the publishing of “Awake”. For today’s conversation, Jen sits down with Vice President and Editorial Director for Avid Reader Press, Lauren Wein, to delve into the journey of bringing Jen's book "Awake" to the page and all the way to the New York Times bestseller list. Jen discusses the profound impact of trusting your own intuition in your writing along with the challenges in memoir-writing of prioritizing authenticity and vulnerability while honoring the privacy for those involved. Lauren pulls back the curtain on the collaborative nature of the editing process, describing the satisfaction she finds with helping authors find their voice. And Jen shares the one truth she hopes every reader of “Awake” walks away with.

Anyone who is interested in writing, or the behind-the-scenes or book-making will enjoy this episode.  Whether you're a writer or a reader, this conversation offers a unique glimpse into the creative process and the power of storytelling.

Thought-provoking Quotes:

“One of the things that Awake is about is learning to trust yourself and trusting your body. I feel like that is how I edit. It's like a tuning fork. I sense when something is like, need more or need less. It's physical.” – Lauren Wein

“Every story deserves authenticity.” – Jen Hatmaker

“In the war of ‘you versus you’, nobody wins, because you're very hard on yourself. You have a very critical inner voice. When you hear somebody tell you something that you maybe sensed about yourself but you didn't quite know, it ignites something, it confirms something that maybe you sensed was there but the voice was too small because the other voices were just louder.” – Lauren Wein

“Finding your voice is a journey.” – Lauren Wein

“When this book was first announced, it was erroneously referred to as a tell-all, which was upsetting to all of us because that is absolutely not what it is. What was very important to you (Jen) was honesty, not telling it all, but being truthful and respecting other people's privacy. Now that is the hardest line to walk when you're writing your own story because your own story is not your own story entirely.” – Lauren Wein

"Trust your intuition in creative work." – Jen Hatmaker

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

For the parents who are slogging through May – https://jenhatmaker.com/blog/for-the-parents-who-are-slogging-through-may/

Margaret Riley King - https://www.wmebookdepartment.com/team/margaret-riley-king/

Maybe You Should Talk to Someone: A Therapist, HER Therapist, and Our Lives Revealed by Lori Gottleib - https://amzn.to/4pUADj8

Wild Game: My Mother, Her Secret, and Me by Adrienne Brodeur - https://amzn.to/4nywiRc

Becoming Duchess Goldblatt by Anonymous - https://amzn.to/4o6rHpt

Awake by Jen Hatmaker audiobook - https://amzn.to/4gU7v7P

Lights on a Similar Path: ‘Awake’ Readers Reflect On Finding Their Way - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/lights-on-a-similar-path-awake-readers-reflect-on-finding-their-way/

Guest’s Links:

Website - https://editors.simonandschuster.com/editor/wein-lauren/

Twitter - https://x.com/desideratasaur

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/lauren.wein.1/

Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker

The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. 

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:

In this heartfelt episode, Jen and Amy welcome friends, Justin McRoberts and Scott Erickson, to delve into the tender complexities of depression, creativity, and faith. Together, Scott and Justin have built a body of work around the intersection of art, prayer, and healing, including their newest project: In the Low: A Prayerbook for the Seasons of Depression. Today they share personal stories and insights on how art and spirituality can serve as companions through life's most isolating lows. 

This episode offers a compassionate perspective on navigating mental health challenges and finding hope in unexpected places. If you've ever found yourself in a season that was super dark or unbearably heavy, this conversation will bring you comfort.

Thought-provoking Quotes:

“When depression eventually would lift in my life, I noticed that I'd think, ‘Where did this fruit come from? Where did this treasure come from?’ It came through going through this process. You might feel void of it when you're in it, you're just trying to get through it or be in it or be functional every day. But there is something happening.” – Scott Erickson

“What are the comforting words I need for today? How can my conscious mind provide something for my subconscious and my soul? How can my conscious mind provide some handles for me for this day, for this week, for this moment?” – Justin McRoberts

“Your disappointment in the religious systems you've been a part of is a gift and those systems need it. There's something really institutionally beautiful and necessary to whole swaths, thousands and thousands of people sharing the same set of disappointments. Follow that thread.” – Scott Erickson

“You aren't wrong to feel the things you are feeling. Life is hard. The machinery is beating the snot out of you. Stay. Please stay long enough to see what might be down there and learn to breathe. My hope is not that you rise to the surface, though I do hope that. My hope is that you learn to breathe at this depth.” – Justin McRoberts

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline - https://988lifeline.org/

Nichole Nordeman - https://www.instagram.com/nicholenordeman

Prayer: Forty Days of Practice by Scott Erickson and Justin McRoberts - https://amzn.to/4hDMVsM

May It Be So: Forty Days with the Lord's Prayer by Scott Erickson and Justin McRoberts - https://amzn.to/3WsKFL5

Honest Advent: Awakening to the Wonder of God-with-Us Then, Here, and Now by Scott Erickson - https://amzn.to/3LeVIFc

In the Low: Honest Prayers for Dark Season by Scott Erickson and Justin McRoberts - https://amzn.to/3LaIB87

Lost Connections: Uncovering the Real Causes of Depression - and the Unexpected Solutions by Johann Hari - https://amzn.to/4nsvrAR

Matt Haig - https://amzn.to/4o7CTlV

Scott Erickson Paints an Honest Picture of an Advent Season of Hope - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/scott-erickson-paints-an-honest-picture-of-an-advent-season-of-hope/

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:

Part systems expert, part permission giver, Kendra Adachi, The Lazy Genius, has made it her mission to help you be a genius about the things that matter and lazy about the things that don’t. From simplifying a to-do list, to calming back-to-school chaos, tips on getting kids to clean their rooms, time management tips, travel hacks, recommended reading to make your life easier, Kendra’s philosophy on productivity and taming life  is a zero-shame zone. See what we mean in this excerpt from Kendra’s podcast where she helps us simplify one of my favorite things, rest.

Thought-provoking Quotes:

“It is possible to figure out what makes you feel more like yourself. There are things that energize and wake you up and other things that fill you up.” – Kendra Adachi

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

#258 - The Seven Kinds of Rest and How to Know Which One You Need - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/258-the-seven-kinds-of-rest-and-how-to-know-which-one-you-need/id1111796513?i=1000557902954

The PLAN: Manage Your Time Like a Lazy Genius by Kendra Adachi - https://amzn.to/47hKLvm

Guest’s Links:

Website - https://www.thelazygeniuscollective.com

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/thelazygenius/

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/groups/2548803345149849

Podcast - https://www.thelazygeniuscollective.com/lazy

Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker

The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. 

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:

The number of people who have said, ‘Jen, you and John Fugelsang should have a conversation’ is approximately one thousand. So naturally, we thought, let’s have that conversation where a million listeners can tune in and enjoy it too.

Strap yourself in for a wild ride as Jen Hatmaker chats with the ever-entertaining comedian, actor and broadcaster, John Fugelsang, host of the Tell Me Everything series on SiriusXM Progress and The John Fugelsang Podcast.  In this episode, they tackle the delightful chaos of breezy topics like Christian nationalism, the real teachings of Jesus (spoiler: it's not about power), and why love trumps all—literally. With his signature blend of humor and razor-sharp insight, John dishes on his book, "Separation of Church and Hate," and why it's time to take back the Bible from the fundamentalist fun police. Get ready for a conversation that's as enlightening as a Sunday sermon, but way more fun.

Whether you consider yourself religious, spiritual, atheistic, or just allergic to hypocrisy, THIS is the episode for you.  Tune in, laugh, and maybe learn a thing or two!

Thought-provoking Quotes:

“I think the largest growing demographic we don't talk about is people who were raised religious but now consider themselves spiritual. They're not turned off to spirituality or God or Jesus or belief. They love the great mystery, but they're really turned off to the hypocrisies and the cruelties and the meanness of so many church communities in this country.” – John Fugelsang

“ was raised to believe that Christianity was about the stuff that Christ taught and commanded: service to others, humility, love, acceptance, empathy, forgiving your enemies, turning the other cheek, replacing eye-for-an-eye. And the teachings of Jesus in Matthew 25, that individuals and nations are going to be judged by how they care for the poor, care for the sick, welcome the stranger, and care for the incarcerated. That's the stuff Jesus actually talked about.” – John Fugelsang

“American Christians have been manipulated with all this homophobia, all this hatred of immigrants and none of that comes from Jesus and it's been done by a political movement that is only about power. Conservative Christian power, not the teachings of Christ, not the religious freedom, not fighting Satan, conservative Christian power.” – John Fugelsang

“If Jesus spoke in parable and metaphor, why is it so hard to view the Bible as parable and metaphor? We get so hung up on proving the facts of the Bible that we miss the truth of the Bible. And the Bible has a lot of truth. It does not have a lot of facts.” – John Fugelsang

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Separation of Church and Hate: A Sane Person's Guide to Taking Back the Bible from Fundamentalists, Fascists, and Flock-Fleecing Frauds by John Fugelsang - https://amzn.to/4husQF3

Tell Me Everything with John Fugelsang on SiriusXM - https://www.siriusxm.com/blog/tag/john-fugelsang

John’s Links:

Website - https://www.johnfugelsang.com/

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/johnfugelsang/

Twitter - https://x.com/JohnFugelsang

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/john.fugelsang.9

Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/@JJbirdsong1

Substack - https://johnfugelsang.substack.com/

Podcast - https://www.johnfugelsang.com/podcast

Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker

The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. 

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:

For a special treat this week, we’re bringing you some highlights straight from Jen’s recent Awake book tour in a limited series we’ve dubbed “Road Trippin’ with Jen”.  Every tour stop, audience, and special guest brought its own kind of magic, so we’re excited to share some of the best moments with you here on the podcast.

On this Road Trippin’ stop, Jen shares the stage with two powerhouses. In Houston, board-certified OBGYN and best-selling author, Dr. Mary Claire Haver, shares her journey and insights into women's health, particularly around menopause and midlife. She unpacks our burning questions—why brain fog shows up before periods change, why sleep matters, and how a “menopause toolkit” can set us up for strength, longevity, and joy. This conversation delves into the complexities of menopause, the importance of nutrition, sleep, and movement, and the power of community and connection.  Together we learn how to thrive in mind, body, and spirit during this transformative phase of life.

Then we head to the Music City of Nashville, where comedian and truth-teller Heather Land talks about using humor to survive whatever garbage life throws at us, pivoting careers in midlife, and choosing honesty as a way to create belonging. Heather reminds us that laughter can be holy too, and when every other thing fails, humor has a way of breaking us open just enough to let the light in. Tune in for an evening that was equal parts comedy set, revival, and group therapy.

…

Thought-provoking Quotes:

Perimenopause brain changes show up well before your periods go sideways.” — Dr. Mary Claire

“Strength training is non-negotiable if you want to keep bone and muscle.” — Dr. Mary Claire

“If you don’t laugh, you’ll cry—and sometimes the laughing saves you.” — Heather Land

“Honesty is freedom. If people don’t like it, that’s on them.” — Heather Land

“Staying awake isn’t just serious business—it’s about finding delight in unexpected places.” — Jen Hatmaker

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

The Ultimate Menopause Toolkit - https://bit.ly/3WkYsDo

The New Menopause: Navigating Your Path Through Hormonal Change with Purpose, Power, and Facts by Dr. Mary Claire Haver - https://amzn.to/4qBg8bU

For the Love Episode 21: Series 64 - Reinventing Yourself with Heather Land - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/reinventing-yourself-with-heather-land/

Dr. Mary Claire Haver — Board-certified OB-GYN, bestselling author, leading voice on perimenopause/menopause care, and educator advocating science-based, compassionate treatment for women in midlife and beyond.

Heather Land — Comedian, writer, and speaker whose viral wit opened the door to deeper storytelling. Known for pairing humor with honesty about faith, family, recovery, and midlife reinvention.

Dr. Mary Claire Haver’s  Links:

Website - https://thepauselife.com/

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/drmaryclaire/

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/drmaryclaire/

Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/@drmaryclaire

TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@drmaryclaire

Substack - https://drmaryclairehaver.substack.com/

Podcast - https://thepauselife.com/pages/the-unpaused-podcast

Heather Land’s Links:

Website - https://www.heatherlandofficial.com/

Instagram -https://www.instagram.com/heatherland_iaintdoinit

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/iaintdoinit/

Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCs4omp2klYLTOqqY56j-8Ag

TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@heatherlandofficial

Podcast - https://open.spotify.com/show/1c9HiacYhJDBWa2UneL7Ae?si=19c9414ec4f74953

Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker

The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. 

Meet the guests

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: In this episode of the Matriarchy series, we explore how deeply ingrained patriarchal narratives can create a policing effect on the behavior of women. 

Author, Elise Loehnen, discusses her book "On Our Best Behavior" which examines how concepts like the seven deadly sins have historically been used to restrict women's behavior and police their adherence to an idealized form of "goodness." Loehnen unpacks the insidious ways women are culturally conditioned from a young age to suppress normal human drives like anger, ambition, and sexuality. And how disrupting rigid gender stereotypes is important when raising the next generation in order to build a more compassionate world. 

…

Thought-provoking Quotes:

★ “Women are trained for goodness; men are trained for power.” – Elise Loehnen

★ “Patriarchy isn’t just out there in systems and structures — it’s in us. It’s the air we breathe.” – Elise Loehnen

★ “A ‘good woman’ never needs anything. She has no wants, no anger, no appetite. She exists to meet everyone else’s needs — and calls it virtue.” – Elise Loehnen

★ “We are so conditioned to police ourselves that we end up policing each other.” – Elise Loehnen

★ “I hold everything I think with loose hands. This is what I know now. But I’m open to the me who might think differently later.” – Jen Hatmaker

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

➤ On Our Best Behavior by Elise Loehnen - https://bit.ly/44tz41D

➤ Goop - https://goop.com

➤ For the Love of Being Seen and Heard ft. Lori Gottlieb - https://bit.ly/4b8YT9C

➤ Maybe You Should Talk to Someone by Lori Gottlieb - https://bit.ly/3JO7FOn

➤ Evagrius Ponticus (Fourth Century Christian Monk) - https://bit.ly/4b7zEV5

➤ Pope Gregory on the 7 Deadly Sins - https://bit.ly/3y1J1XK

➤ Harvey Weinstein Abuse Cases -  https://bit.ly/4b5ktM5

➤ Carol Gilligan - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_G...

➤ In a Different Voice by Carol Gilligan - https://bit.ly/3JQ9IBh  

➤ Human Voice by Carol Gilligan - https://bit.ly/3UQ1Rcn

➤ Andrew Tate - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_...

➤ Order, Disorder, Reorder (An idea Developed by Richard Rohr) - https://bit.ly/44xzHqK

➤ For the Love of The Enneagram ft. Richard Rohr - https://bit.ly/3QzzZaW

➤ Loretta Ross - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loretta...

Guest’s Links:

➤ Website: https://www.eliseloehnen.com/

➤ Facebook:   / eliseloehnen  

➤ Instagram:   / eliseloehnen  

➤ Twitter:   / eloehnen  

➤ LinkedIn:   / elise-loehnen-b867523  

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Description:

If you have ever lost your cool with your kids and then felt the crushing wave of guilt that comes sweeping in after—this episode is for you.

This week, Jen and Amy sit down with psychotherapist and emotions educator Hilary Jacobs Hendel, author of ‘It’s Not Always Depression’ and the new book ‘Parents Have Feelings, Too’, to talk about what happens when we stop ignoring our own emotions and start bringing more calm, curiosity, and compassion into our families.

Hilary shares her groundbreaking Change Triangle model—a simple but powerful tool that helps us move from anxiety, shame, and reactivity to understanding what’s really underneath: our core emotions like anger, sadness, fear, and joy. Together, they unpack:

How to break cycles we inherited from our own parents

What “open-hearted parenting” looks like in real life

How to repair when we’ve said or done something we regret

And why healing our emotions may be the greatest legacy we give our kids

It’s a conversation full of science, self-compassion, and deep sighs of relief—a reminder that parents have feelings too, and that tending to them isn’t selfish; it’s sacred work. Whether you’re parenting toddlers, teens, or even adult children, there is something to serve you in this episode and it’s a great one to share with a friend.

Thought-provoking Quotes:

“It's always possible for relationships and the brain to change, and they happen hand in hand, so it is never too late.” – Hilary Jacobs Hendel

“What I needed to do was slow everything down and get curious. Get to know this kid, say, ‘tell me a little bit more about what's going on.’ Question my own values and the ways I thought it was going to be, all these fantasies that I came in with at the expense of my kid when I thought I was helping.” – Hilary Jacobs Hendel

“Self-awareness is an investment that comes back in dividends and capital gains beyond anything that we can imagine. And it's so much more relaxing to parent this way.” – Hilary Jacobs Hendel

“I can shout from the rooftops that emotions education is important, just like reading and math is important. In high school biology we learn we have a heart, lungs, and pancreas, but emotions affect us far worse. Every single day of our lives. You'd think somebody would want to pay attention to teaching us a little bit about them.”– Hilary Jacobs Hendel

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Parents Have Feelings, Too: A Guide to Navigating Your Emotions So You And Your Family Can Thrive by Hilary Jacobs Hendel and Juli Fraga - https://amzn.to/4h3wtlf

For The Love Of Reconnecting Episode 03: Making Good Use of Our Emotions: Hilary Jacobs Hendel - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-32/making-good-use-of-our-emotions-hilary-jacobs-hendel/

It's Not Always Depression: Working the Change Triangle to Listen to the Body, Discover Core Emotions, and Connect to Your Authentic Self by Hilary Jacobs Hendel - https://amzn.to/3L3an6f

The Change Triangle - https://www.hilaryjacobshendel.com/whats-the-change-triangle

Awake: A Memoir by Jen Hatmaker - https://amzn.to/4nCb9pi

Simple Habit meditation app - https://www.simplehabit.com/

The Change Triangle YouTube Channel - https://www.youtube.com/c/thechangetriangle/videos

Guest’s Links:

Website - https://www.hilaryjacobshendel.com/

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/hilaryjacobshendel/

Twitter - https://x.com/HilaryJHendel

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/AuthorHilaryJacobsHendel

Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/c/thechangetriangle/videos

Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker

The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. 

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices