IndoctriNation

This is just a preview of our Patreon exclusive bonus episode. You can hear the episode in its entirety by becoming a member at:

https://www.patreon.com/indoctrination

Returning guest, Em Thomas was born and raised in the dogmatic Christian cult The Way International. The daughter of a Way Corps graduate and WOW ambassador, Em attended a fellowship in her home three nights per week, monthly branch meetings with other leadership families, and prolonged stays semi-annually at TWI headquarters. Em’s family was labeled “Mark and Avoid” (excommunicated) in 1998, after which they attended fellowship within a splinter group until 2000 when Em was 15 years old.

Em has two main goals for sharing her story: to connect with other survivors of cultic abuse, especially second or third-generation survivors of The Way International, and to bring attention to this once well-known organization that is still operating and doing harm to its members today. She hopes that by telling her truth, she can bring hope to folks who are still finding their way out.

In this follow-up conversation, Em details the rampant homophobia of the church's leaders and shares her long and complex journey to recovery after leaving the cult as a teenager. She points out the long-lasting psychological impacts that affected her life and relationships long after being physically out of the grips of the church. Together Rachel and Em discuss how being deprived of bodily autonomy as a child can lead to entering into dangerous relationships as an adult.

Em can be found on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/markandavoid/

You can contact her via email at: [email protected]

Thanks to all of our Patreon supporters for making this episode possible!

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Em Thomas was born and raised in the dogmatic Christian cult The Way International. The daughter of a Way Corps graduate and WOW ambassador, Em attended a fellowship in her home three nights per week, monthly branch meetings with other leadership families, and prolonged stays semi-annually at TWI headquarters. Em’s family was labeled “Mark and Avoid” (excommunicated) in 1998, after which they attended fellowship within a splinter group until 2000 when Em was 15 years old.

Em has two main goals for sharing her story: to connect with other survivors of cultic abuse, especially second or third-generation survivors of The Way International, and to bring attention to this once well-known organization that is still operating and doing harm to its members today. She hopes that by telling her truth, she can bring hope to folks who are still finding their way out.

In this revealing conversation, Em shares publicly for the very first time her story of abuse, homophobia, and coercive control as a member of The Way International. She explains to Rachel how she struggled with her identity and sexuality growing up in the very unsafe, and predatory environment of the church and how that experience primed her for abusive relationships and self-harm as a teenager. Together Rachel and Em analyze the harmful dogma of the church, its fraudulent and plagiarized teachings, and the abusive culture of control, secrecy, and excommunication.

Before You Go: Rachel addresses the importance of fortifying bodily autonomy in young children and explains how high-control organizations often intentionally work to erase the natural boundaries of self-determination and physical sovereignty to assert total control over their followers and weaken resistance to abuse.

Em can be found on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/markandavoid/

You can contact her via email at: [email protected]

All of Rachel's free informational PDF documents are available here:

https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/pdf.html

All of Rachel's video lectures are available for purchase here:

www.rachelbernsteintherapy.com/webinar.html

To help support the show monthly and get bonus episodes, shirts, and tote bags, please visit:

www.patreon.com/indoctrination

Prefer to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link:

www.paypal.me/indoctrination

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Chris Shelton is a former cult member who escaped from a lifetime of indoctrination and abuse, started a YouTube channel to educate the public about coercive or cultic control, undue influence, and brainwashing, has written a book on the subject of Scientology and why that group is a destructive, high-control group and has spoken at the Secular Hub many times on these topics. He hosts a weekly podcast, a call-in show, and a Q&A, has been featured on the Emmy-award-winning Scientology and the Aftermath television documentary series, and has appeared on a number of media platforms discussing cultic influence.

In this revelatory and cathartic conversation, longtime colleagues and friends Chris and Rachel discuss some of the lurid details of Scientology's actions with regard to the recent conviction of Danny Masterson. Chris offers his personal insights as a former Scientologist on the malicious intent behind the vicious and criminal tactics of intimidation the group is infamous for employing against its detractors.

Before You Go: Rachel shares details about her own experiences of harassment from the Church of Scientology and their minions, explaining the systematic ways in which the group attempts to intimidate anyone they see as a threat to their power.

You can find out more about Chris and his work at:

www.mncriticalthinking.com

Watch Rachel's appearances on Chris's Podcast "Sensibly Speaking" here:

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLGrPM1Pg2h705KqJ9DRi3HKkWqqZAA6Hs

All of Rachel's video lectures are available for purchase here:

www.rachelbernsteintherapy.com/webinar.html

To help support the show monthly and get bonus episodes, shirts, and tote bags, please visit:

www.patreon.com/indoctrination

Prefer to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link:

www.paypal.me/indoctrination

Connect with us on Social Media:

Twitter:

twitter.com/_indoctrination

Facebook:

www.facebook.com/indoctrinationpodcast

Tik Tok:

www.tiktok.com/@indoctrinationpodcast

Instagram:

www.instagram.com/indoctrinationpodcast/

YouTube:

www.youtube.com/rachelbernsteinlmft

You can always help the show for free by leaving a rating on Spotify or a review on Apple/ iTunes. It really helps the visibility of the show!

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For this week's bonus episode, Patreon supporters can access Rachel's recent video lecture from the International Cultic Studies Conference. In this lecture, Rachel explains how fear can impact the decision-making process in members of high-control groups. This subject is for anyone including those who have gotten involved in a cult, in a controlling relationship, in multi-level marketing, in a corporation that demands all your time and devotion, or in any situation where you feel it would not be safe to say "No".

Manipulators are extremely good at making sure we go along with their wishes and that we agree to do what they want us to do and what they tell us to do. They get us to ignore all of our doubts and concerns and questions and even get us to a point of feeling fear about saying "No" so we don't get labeled "difficult" or as the troublemaker. We don't want to risk making the controller upset by putting our foot down and not immediately agreeing to something.

You can access the video by becoming a supporter at:

www.patreon.com/indoctrination

You can find a PDF outline of this lecture at:

https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/pdf.html

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Sarah Patch is a clinical counselor in Columbus, Ohio who has devoted the past few years of her career to educating herself and others on authoritarian abuse and cult involvement. Sarah cares deeply about raising awareness of the subtle and not-so-subtle signs of controlling behavior so that people can live more authentic and joyful lives. Sarah was both a participant and victim of authoritarian control while in a Christian cult where she spent most of her life. She hopes that by sharing her story, she can help individuals break down their walls of cognitive dissonance and find freedom.

Throughout this revealing conversation, Sarah shares insights from her experience under the control of Xenos, now known as Dwell Church. She goes on to discuss with Rachel her own work as a counselor, explaining how her time in a high-control religious group informed the work she does today. Together the two colleagues explain the mechanisms of control that are commonly used in cultic organizations.

Before You Go: Rachel addresses the concept of P.I.M.O. (Physically In, Mentally Out) explaining the complex stages of recovering from cultic abuse, and how they can manifest in the minds of survivors.

You can find more info about Sarah's work at https://www.sarahpatchcounseling.com/

All of Rachel's video lectures are available for purchase here:

www.rachelbernsteintherapy.com/webinar.html

To help support the show monthly and get bonus episodes, shirts, and tote bags, please visit:

www.patreon.com/indoctrination

Prefer to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link:

www.paypal.me/indoctrination

Connect with us on Social Media:

Twitter:

twitter.com/_indoctrination

Facebook:

www.facebook.com/indoctrinationpodcast

Tik Tok:

www.tiktok.com/@indoctrinationpodcast

Instagram:

www.instagram.com/indoctrinationpodcast/

YouTube:

www.youtube.com/rachelbernsteinlmft

You can always help the show for free by leaving a rating on Spotify or a review on Apple/ iTunes. It really helps the visibility of the show!

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Guinevere Turner is a writer, director, and actor who has been working in film and TV since her 1994 debut film Go Fish, which she wrote, produced, and starred in. She teamed up with director Mary Harron to write the films American Psycho, The Notorious Bettie Page, and the 2019 film Charlie Says. She can be seen in film roles that include The Watermelon Woman, Chasing Amy, American Psycho, and The L Word. Guinevere has taught screenwriting at Sarah Lawrence College, Columbia University, the University of Georgia, UCLA, and NYU. Her recently released immersive, and spell-binding memoir "When The World Didn't End" tells the story of her childhood growing up with the infamous Lyman Family cult—and the complicated and unexpected pain of leaving the only home she’d ever known.

In this very forthright conversation, Guinevere shares her reflections on her childhood as a member of the Lyman Family cult, explaining how her isolation since birth made it difficult for her to recognize the exploitation she experienced in the moment. Together Rachel and Guinevere go on to share their thoughts on the healing process and point out how perspectives change and become more complex over time.

Before You Go: Rachel explains how manipulative leaders create a false perception of deficiency in their followers in order to keep them distracted from their empty messages of spiritual growth.

You can find Guinevere's book at your local independent bookstore or on her website:

https://www.guinevereturner.com/

You can read her piece in The New Yorker here:

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/05/06/my-childhood-in-a-cult

All of Rachel's video lectures are available for purchase here:

www.rachelbernsteintherapy.com/webinar.html

To help support the show monthly and get bonus episodes, shirts, and tote bags, please visit:

www.patreon.com/indoctrination

Prefer to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link:

www.paypal.me/indoctrination

Connect with us on Social Media:

Twitter:

twitter.com/_indoctrination

Facebook:

www.facebook.com/indoctrinationpodcast

Tik Tok:

www.tiktok.com/@indoctrinationpodcast

Instagram:

www.instagram.com/indoctrinationpodcast/

YouTube:

www.youtube.com/rachelbernsteinlmft

You can always help the show for free by leaving a rating on Spotify or a review on Apple/ iTunes. It really helps the visibility of the show!

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

This is just a preview of our exclusive Patreon bonus episode. You can hear the full episode by becoming a supporter at:

www.patreon.com/indoctrination

Returning guest, Mark Turi discovered Scientology while on vacation in Los Angeles, just a month after graduating college in May 2005, Two years later, he joined the staff at the Church of Scientology in Berlin, Germany. While in Berlin, Mark worked for Scientology for over 90 hours a week, earning very little money. He left Berlin in February 2008 when he was transferred to the Church of Scientology in San Francisco, where he worked until May 2008.

Since leaving Scientology Mark has been regularly sharing about his experience online in the hopes that his story can help young people, especially recent college graduates, be more aware of predatory organizations like The Church of Scientology. He has continued to pursue his education and is currently enrolled in a Master's program in Budapest, Hungary where he now resides. Mark is a historian focusing on Nationalism, Language, and Jewish Culture in Late Modern Europe.

In this follow-up conversation, Mark shares further details about his time as a staff member of Scientology, this time he focuses on the aftermath explaining how he managed the anger and resentment that remained after his exodus. Together Rachel and Mark unpack the complex post-cult healing process and share their respective insights on the dangers of "black & white" thinking.

Thanks to all of our Patron supporters for making this episode possible!!

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Mark Turi discovered Scientology while on vacation in Los Angeles, just a month after graduating college in May 2005, Two years later, he joined the staff at the Church of Scientology in Berlin, Germany. While in Berlin, Mark worked for Scientology for over 90 hours a week, earning very little money. He left Berlin in February 2008 when he was transferred to the Church of Scientology in San Francisco, where he worked until May of 2008.

Since leaving Scientology Mark has been regularly sharing about his experience online in the hopes that his story can help young people, especially recent college graduates, be more aware of predatory organizations like The Church of Scientology. He has continued to pursue his education and is currently enrolled in a Master's program in Budapest, Hungary where he now resides. Mark is a historian focusing on Nationalism, Language, and Jewish Culture in Late Modern Europe.

In this insightful conversation, Mark details the deceptive ways in which he was lured into joining the Scientology staff and what he believes made him vulnerable to their duplicitous tactics. Throughout the discussion, Rachel and Mark break down the ways in which Scientology exploits its staff members and explain how the controlling culture of the organization keeps its employees obedient.

Before You Go: Rachel weighs in on the Scientology concept of Human Emotional Reaction (H.E.R.) explaining how it manifests and the manipulative intentions behind it.

All of Rachel's video lectures are available for purchase here:

www.rachelbernsteintherapy.com/webinar.html

To help support the show monthly and get bonus episodes, shirts, and tote bags, please visit:

www.patreon.com/indoctrination

Prefer to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link:

www.paypal.me/indoctrination

Connect with us on Social Media:

Twitter:

twitter.com/_indoctrination

Facebook:

www.facebook.com/indoctrinationpodcast

Tik Tok:

www.tiktok.com/@indoctrinationpodcast

Instagram:

www.instagram.com/indoctrinationpodcast/

YouTube:

www.youtube.com/rachelbernsteinlmft

You can always help the show for free by leaving a rating on Spotify or a review on Apple/ iTunes. It really helps the visibility of the show!

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Dr. Tamara MC is a cult, child marriage, and human trafficking survivor and activist who advocates worldwide for girls and women to live free from gender-based violence. Her Ph.D. is in Applied Linguistics, and she researches how language manipulates vulnerable populations. Tamara attended Columbia University for an MFA and has been honored with residencies/fellowships in places such as Bread Loaf, Iowa Writers' Workshop, Sewanee, Ragdale, Cave Canem, VONA, and VCCA. She's published in prestigious outlets such as The New York Times, New York Magazine, Salon, The Independent, Food 52, Parents, and Thrillist.

She’s currently hard at work on her debut memoir, Child Bride: My Marriage at 12. She's traveled to nearly 80 countries, mostly alone and backpacking, and is a polyglot, having studied more than six languages. She is an empty-nesting mama to two sons in their mid-20s and a grandmamma to two feisty but adorable pups, a Boston Terrier and Australian Shepherd. When she isn't writing and reading, you'll find her road cycling, running, and playing Pickleball.

In this revealing and heartfelt conversation, Tamara opens up about being raised mostly in her father's high-control religious commune, and the confusing dichotomy of living partly with her secular and liberal mother. Throughout the discussion, Rachel offers insights on the negative impacts of burdening children with adult responsibility and sacrificing their education for the sake of religious devotion.

Before you go: Rachel explains why it's important to take note of changing or inconsistent rules in high control groups, pointing out the often illegitimate derivation of their authority.

Find more about Tamara and her work here:

https://tamaramc.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/tamaramcphd/

All of Rachel's video lectures are available for purchase here:

www.rachelbernsteintherapy.com/webinar.html

To help support the show monthly and get bonus episodes, shirts, and tote bags, please visit:

www.patreon.com/indoctrination

Prefer to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link:

www.paypal.me/indoctrination

Connect with us on Social Media:

Twitter:

twitter.com/_indoctrination

Facebook:

www.facebook.com/indoctrinationpodcast

Tik Tok:

www.tiktok.com/@indoctrinationpodcast

Instagram:

www.instagram.com/indoctrinationpodcast/

YouTube:

www.youtube.com/rachelbernsteinlmft

You can always help the show for free by leaving a rating on Spotify or a review on Apple/ iTunes. It really helps the visibility of the show!

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

This is just a preview of our exclusive Patreon bonus episode. You can hear the full episode by becoming a supporter at:

http://www.patreon.com/indoctrination

Andrew Pledger is a content creator, activist, and writer who uses social media to share his story and inspire others. He is a religious trauma survivor who was homeschooled K-12 and raised in a fundamentalist Christian cult (Independent Fundamental Baptist movement). He brings awareness to spiritual and religious abuse. Being a part of the LGBTQ+ community and experiencing religious trauma has inspired him to pursue psychology to help survivors. After being homeschooled, he found his way to Bob Jones University. He attended the fundamentalist Christian college for over three years until he was expelled in his last semester for sharing his story and denouncing fundamentalist teachings. Andrew comes on the show to share his experiences of the level of control and mental abuse he experienced at Bob Jones University. He has a limited podcast premiering soon called "Surviving Bob Jones University: A Christian Cult." This podcast explores the school's history, the psychology of fundamentalism, the criteria for cults, and survivors' experiences.

Andrew opens up to Rachel about his complicated relationship with his 2nd generation IFB parents, he compares the high-control culture he grew up within his family with the complete authoritarian control of Bob Jones University. Together Andrew and Rachel discuss the psychological impacts on adolescents living under the constant surveillance and harsh judgment of fundamentalism.

Find "Surviving BJU" and all of Andrew's other work here:

https://andrewpledger.mypixieset.com/links/

Thanks to all of our Patron supporters for making this episode possible!!

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands