Interesting Times

What should the U.S. do next in Venezuela? President Trump’s former Venezuela envoy Elliott Abrams wants the Trump administration to push harder for full regime change. But, he and Ross debate if a democratic transition is even possible based on the administration’s interests and past American efforts in the region.

• 01:15 - The case for regime change in Venezuela
• 07:43 - The Trump administration’s current strategy
• 14:06 - The Abrams Plan: An alternative approach
• 17:50 - Oil blockades, sanctions, and military action
• 28:54 - Past transitions in Latin America
• 36:06 - The Reagan administration's “unsavory allies”
• 43:57 - Trump’s priorities are a “mystery”

(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)

Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

This week we’re sharing an episode of ‘Making Sense With Sam Harris.’ The author and podcaster recently invited Ross on his show to discuss religion and politics. But they debated so much more: the existence of God, the mystery of the cosmos, the limits of consciousness, moral progress and even whether demons walk among us.

Note: This recording has not been fact-checked by our team.

(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)

Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

Merry Christmas and happy holidays! This week Ross Douthat shares one of his favorite poems for the occasion, “The Journey of the Magi,” written by T.S. Eliot, to reflect on a year one might call “interesting.” See you next year!

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

Edgelords, Groypers, Sydney Sweeney’s jeans. American pop culture is having a right-wing moment. Ross recently joined the “Popcast” hosts Jon Caramanica and Joe Coscarelli to debate whether it will ever be truly cool to be conservative in Hollywood.

(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)

Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

After Charlie Kirk’s assassination, conspiracy theories and divisions multiplied on the right. On this episode of “Interesting Times,” Ross talks to Andrew Kolvet, a Turning Point USA spokesperson and executive producer of “The Charlie Kirk Show,” about what happens to a movement when its charismatic leader is gone, what it’s like to be the target of conspiracy theories, and whether there are any issues unifying conservatism now.

• 01:32 - Andrew’s friendship with Charlie Kirk
• 05:18 - Turning Point U.S.A.’s activism and impact
• 11:16 - Charlie Kirk’s assassination and its aftermath
• 18:42 - The divisions on the right start with conspiracy theories 
• 38:28 - “Can the right hold together on Israel?”
• 41:19 - Stress-testing the cohesion on the right
• 56:08 - The Erika Kirk/Trump contrast

(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)

Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

The transgender rights movement in America appeared to be gaining momentum. But after suffering a big loss before the Supreme Court in June and facing a shift in public opinion, where does the fight go now? 

On this episode of “Interesting Times,” Ross is joined by Chase Strangio, a transgender rights activist and a lawyer with the American Civil Liberties Union, to discuss strategy in the courtroom and in the court of public opinion — as well as broader philosophical questions about transgender identity.

• 02:15 - Bostock vs. Clayton County
• 08:30 - United States v. Skrmetti
• 22:57 - Defining sex, gender identity and transgender identity
• 32:52 - Chase talks about “coming home”
• 40:42 - Healthcare for transgender youth is changing
• 56:58 - Sports and transgender athletes
• 1:07:49 - Coexistence within the debate

(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)

Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

Happy Thanksgiving! If you’re dreading your family’s impending political feuds over turkey and dinner rolls, we’re here to share an episode that just might help guide you. In August, Osita Nwanevu, a progressive and the author of “The Right of the People: Democracy and the Case for a New American Founding,” joined Ross for a respectful debate about how we should be interrogating the democratic system the country is built on — without yelling or threats.

• 5:21 - What's wrong with our democracy? 
• 10:43 - Our undemocratic founding 
• 18:36 - The case for more U.S. states and a new constitution
• 25:27 - Where economic reform fits into this problem 
• 30:54 - Does Trump represent the will of the people?
• 38:50- What Trump’s presidency says about democracy
• 42:06 - The elusive Bernie Sanders moment 
• 48:05 - The mystical element of our politics

(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)

Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

Is antisemitism the next chapter of “America First”? Many see the appeal of antisemitic ideas among younger conservatives as a natural consequence of a hard right nationalist turn. Yoram Hazony — a prominent advocate of nationalist politics — is trying to keep that from happening. He joins Ross to discuss the root of right-wing antisemitism and what right-wing leaders should do about it.

• 02:12 - Just how bad is antisemitism on the right?
• 06:24 - The generational and theological rebellion
• 14:35 - “The virtues of nationalism” and an American cultural center
• 25:33 - Foreign policy under nationalism
• 29:59 - The U.S. - Israel Relationship and antisemitism
• 45:59 - What can nationalist leaders do about antisemitism

(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)

Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

“There’s something very spiritually dark about the internet,” the author Paul Kingsnorth tells Ross Douthat in this week’s episode of “Interesting Times.” Kingsnorth warns against the expanding presence of technology in our lives and declares it “the war against human nature.”

• 00:06:10 - Defining "The Machine"
• 00:08:03 - Ecological vs. Spiritual Collapse
• 00:15:03 - The Case for Modernity
• 00:24:02 - The Four Ps of a Healthy Culture
• 00:28:39 - Collapse, Revival, and The Internet
• 00:34:05 - Thiel, Musk, and The Antichrist
• 00:42:37 - The Choice in 'Alexandria'
• 00:46:44 - How to Live Within The Machine

(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)

Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

Is society too feminine or not feminine enough? Two conservative writers, Helen Andrews and Leah Libresco Sargeant, disagree on the answer. They join Ross Douthat to debate whether the feminization of institutions led to wokeism and a greater divide between men and women.

• 01:33 “Wokeness is distinctively feminine.”
• 06:17 - Has liberal feminism failed women?
• 16:26 - The feminization of institutions
• 20:47 - Defining feminine and masculine vices
• 24:09 - Toxic femininity 
• 39:09 - Defeminization in the workplace

(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)

Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.