Interesting Times

Happy Independence Day! We’ll be back next week with a new episode, but today we’re sharing the episode that started us on the path to “Interesting Times.” Ross Douthat talks to Reihan Salam, the president of the Manhattan Institute for Policy Research. Together they wrote the book “Grand New Party: How Republicans Can Win the Working Class and Save the American Dream.”

They review their George W. Bush-era prescriptions for the Republican Party to reclaim the working-class vote and the ways they were right (and wrong) about building a new Republican majority.

• 03:47 George W. Bush era
• 12:06 Rise and fall of the Tea Party
• 18:19 Trump’s 2016 “blood and guts” message
• 28:11 Trump’s effect on the right and left
• 35:48 Trump’s first term economic agenda
• 39:30 Elon Musk vs JD Vance
• 46:50 Imagining an activist, conservative government

(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)

Thoughts? Email us at [email protected].

Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

The billionaire Peter Thiel is unimpressed with our pace of innovation. In this episode, he critiques artificial intelligence, longevity science and space travel — and warns that our lack of progress could lead to catastrophic outcomes, including the emergence of the Antichrist.

• 01:19 - What does stagnation mean in 2025?
• 06:30 - Peter Thiel's case for more progress and innovation
• 11:30 - Does taking more scientific risk include life extension?
• 15:14 - Peter Thiel's political history
• 18:34 - Did Trump live up to Thiel's expectations?
• 25:10 - Does Elon Musk still want to go to Mars?
• 28:09 - How Thiel defines A.I.
• 33:20 - Is A.I. Too Modest An Ambition?
• 35:23 - How will the human race evolve? Should it?
• 41:53 - Thiel's critique of Silicon Valley
• 43:40 - Who is the real Antichrist?

(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)

Thoughts? Email us at [email protected].

Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

Is the key to freedom a life without Amazon? This week, Ross talks to Lina Khan, former Chair of the Federal Trade Commission about how unchecked corporate power has limited choice in our day-to-day lives, and how her fight against Big Tech unites left and right.

• 02:41 - What’s wrong with big business?
• 09:27 - The political costs of corporate consolidation
• 11:39 - How the 2008 financial crisis shaped Lina Khan's philosophy
• 17:49 - The antitrust consensus from Reagan to Obama
• 21:54 - How the left and right align against big business 
• 26:12 - Khan's wins and losses at the FTC 
• 36:53 - Is the Trump administration embracing or rejecting Khan's vision?
• 42:32 - Is anti-monopoly policy the solution to our economic problems?
• 48:38 - Can Big Tech be broken up?

(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.) 

Thoughts? Email us at [email protected].

Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

Has immigration become the new litmus test for the Republican Party? In this episode, Ross talks to Matthew Continetti, the author of “The Right: The Hundred-Year War for American Conservatism,” about the party’s shifting coalition, the defining role of immigration and how today’s right echoes its past.

• 01:50 - What the Elon experiment (and fallout) tells us about the Republican Party
• 06:55 - Is there a tech right beyond DOGE?
• 10:09 - Is the “new right” really all that new?
• 18:16 - Where Trump’s agenda fits within the larger conservative story
• 25:16 - “Immigration is the biggest issue of our time”
• 28:39 - How border control will define conservatism around the world
• 34:05 - Is Silicon Valley out of step with Trump's immigration crackdown?
• 39:43 - Will Trump's ideas outlast Trump?

(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.) 

Thoughts? Email us at [email protected].

Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

Does Hollywood have anything interesting left to say? In a world where franchises dominate and grown-up movies have fallen by the wayside, Ross talks to the showrunner Tony Gilroy, whose “Star Wars” spinoff “Andor” has, according to Ross, succeeded in being both original and smartly political in a Hollywood that is often neither.

• 03:04 - The political world of ”Andor”
• 08:36 - Tony Gilroy's syllabus for “Andor”
• 10:40 - Is “Andor” a left-wing show?
• 17:07 - What makes Hollywood progressive or liberal?
• 24:22 - Debating the politics of “Michael Clayton”
• 29:42 - Why aren't there more movies for grown-ups?
• 32:56 - “There are no movie stars anymore.”
• 35:55 - How A.I. changing the movie business
• 39:28 - Tony Gilroy's advice for future filmmakers

(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.) 

Thoughts? Email us at [email protected].

Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

What would make you want to have more children? This week on “Interesting Times,” Ross Douthat speaks with Dr. Alice Evans, a social scientist who is as concerned about the global decline in fertility as he is. The two discuss why this isn’t just a gender issue — it’s “a solitude issue” – and whether there’s a way to bring relationships back.

• 02:03 - What are the stakes of declining fertility?
• 06:41 - Alice's master theory for why birth rates are falling
• 09:04 - There are too many single people
• 10:27 - We can thank technology for the coupling crisis
• 12:58 - The digital segregation of men and women
• 16:31 - Men have less to offer these days
• 20:11 - What can bring the sexes back together
• 24:31 - Could Hollywood help fix the problem?
• 25:46 - Can the government incentivize people to have babies?
• 27:30 - What role does religion play in all this?
• 28:59 - The role of IVF
• 40:50 - Does the fantasy of youth impact the numbers?
• 43:43 - The world in 2080...

(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.) 

Thoughts? Email us at [email protected].

Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

On this episode of “Interesting Times,” Ross Douthat interviews Vice President JD Vance about the Trump administration’s deportations, the tariff backlash and how Vance’s faith influences his politics.

• 01:49 - How faith shapes JD Vance’s politics
• 04:26 - ‘Papal interventions in politics’
• 14:44 - How will the Trump administration measure success on immigration?
• 21:22 - ‘The courts are trying to overturn the will of the American people’
• 23:55 - Are migrants really at war against the US?
• 28:48 - The parallels between the War on Terror and Trump's deportation policies
• 40:29 - What does a successful trade policy look like?
• 48:10 - The "big, beautiful bill"
• 58:57 - Does the Trump administration expect the AI revolution will take jobs?
• 54:05 - What worries Vance about AI
• 58:33 - JD Vance's message to shocked Trump voters

(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.) 

Thoughts? Email us at [email protected].

Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

Is artificial intelligence about to take your job? According to Daniel Kokotajlo, the executive director of the A.I. Futures Project, that should be the least of your worries. Kokotajlo was once a researcher for OpenAI, but left after losing confidence in the company’s commitment to A.I. safety. This week, he joins Ross to talk about “AI 2027,” a series of predictions and warnings about the risks A.I. poses to humanity in the coming years, from radically transforming the economy to developing armies of robots.

• 03:59 - What effect could AI have on jobs?
• 06:45 - But wait, how does this make society richer?
• 10:08 - Robot plumbers and electricians
• 14:53 - The geopolitical stakes
• 18:58 - AI’s honesty problem
• 22:43 - The fork in the road
• 27:55 - The best case scenario
• 29:38 - The power structure in an AI-dominated world
• 32:32 - What AI leaders think about this power structure
• 38:30 - AI's hallucinations and limitations
• 43:45 - Theories of AI consciousness
• 47:05 - Is AI consciousness inevitable?
• 50:59 - Humanity in an AI-dominated world

(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.) 

Thoughts? Email us at [email protected].

Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

Democrats are stumbling — badly. While the Trump administration redefines the limits of executive overreach, the Democratic party remains at odds over how to — even whether to — respond. But Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut has a plan for beating Republicans in 2026, and it involves taking a cue from President Trump. He shares it with Ross Douthat on this episode of Interesting Times. 

• 02:07 - The First 100 Days for Trump and the Democrats
• 04:06 - The Threat to Democracy Wasn’t Enough Then or Now.
• 06:49 - How Dems Fight Trump
• 13:41 - Where Chris Murphy Can Agree With the Populist Right
• 16:38 - Is Connecticut a Model of What is Wrong with Democrats?
• 25:54 - The Spiritual Crisis in American Life
• 27:56 - The Problem with Big Tech
• 33:45 - How Do Democrats (And Murphy) Talk About Religion? Should They?
• 45:35 - Is Trump Really Running An Oligarchy?
• 50:34 - Does the Democratic Party Need a Bigger Tent?
• 53:54 - A Need for a National Consensus on Immigration
• 57:09 - “A Democracy Dies Without a High Stakes Confrontation”

(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.) 

Thoughts? Email us at [email protected].

Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

The Trump era is ushering in a new age of right wing counterculture, one defined by masculinity and transgression. In this episode of Interesting Times, Ross speaks with Jonathan Keeperman, the founder of Passage Press, about the influence of an edgy, reactionary, right-wing “vibe shift” on American politics and culture.

• 2:09 - Jonathan Keeperman’s Lomez days
• 5:25 - 2014: An inflection point in American culture?
• 7:40 - The emergence of a “conservative counter elite”
• 9:41 - The creation of a right wing counterweight to the dominant left
• 12:32 - What makes something “conservative art”?
• 15:18 - Are David Lynch films right wing art? Is Girls?
• 18:11 - Is there such a thing as good left wing art?
• 19:32 - Right wing counterculture’s obsession with “vitalism”
• 22:56 - Longhouse culture: Is the “over feminization” of society making America weaker?
• 27:55 - Is the longhouse argument just a “long male whine”?
• 30:41 - Is right wing counterculture anti-Christian?
• 35:48 - Trump as mythic hero
• 43:31 - What is the function of racism in right wing counterculture?
• 53:50 - Are racist means transgressive or just racist?
• 1:05:43 - Will the rightward vibe shift show up in pop culture?
• 1:07:37 - Why every high school senior should read “Moby Dick” and watch “No Country for Old Men”

(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.) 

Thoughts? Email us at [email protected].

Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.