If you want to understand how Robert F. Kennedy Jr. became the face of American public health, you have to go back to the Covid era. Medical authorities spoke with certainty: Trust the science. Don’t listen to skeptics. But a lot of people stopped trusting experts entirely when outsiders got some things right and the establishment got some things wrong. Now those outsiders are in charge, like my guest this week. Dr. Jay Bhattacharya is the director of the National Institutes of Health. I wanted to know: Can an outsider restore trust in public health institutions without undermining trust even more?

• 02:11 - How the “fringe epidemiologist” came to be
• 08:18 - What went wrong while “crushing COVID-19”
• 15:18 - “The responsibility of public health leaders”
• 28:42 - Reforming public health and the NIH
• 42:52 - Three areas of controversy plaguing public health
• 1:00:52 - Success metrics

(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)

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President Trump’s aggressive return to the White House has been disruptive in ways that will continue to reshape American — and global — governance and politics for decades. At a live event with the Library Foundation of Los Angeles, I joined my colleague Jamelle Bouie and our boss, the Opinion editor, Kathleen Kingsbury, to break down the first year of Trump 2.0. This conversation originally aired as an episode of “The Opinions.”

(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)

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Something surprising is happening to religious belief in America: It’s no longer trending downward. Are Americans becoming more religious? On this episode of “Interesting Times,” Ross sits down with the demographer and former pastor Ryan Burge to discuss the myths and realities of religious revival and debate whether the future belongs to ortho bros or Pagans.

• 01:32 - A new era of American religion
• 08:19 - The shifting gender balance in religion
• 13:38 - Class, education and social trust
• 18:48 - Tarot, astrology, and UFOs: Post-Christian spirituality
• 22:40 - The decline of the Seven Sisters
• 28:27 - Politics in the pews
• 40:29 - The religious and political America of 2050

(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)

Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

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Can cellphone cameras and whistles impede President Trump’s immigration policy? On this week’s episode of “Interesting Times,” Ross speaks with Francisco Segovia, the executive director of a Minneapolis-based nonprofit on the front lines of anti-ICE activism, about how his organization is training citizens to become constitutional observers. “It’s your right to video record what your government is doing,” he says. Ross asks if there’s any enforcement he’d accept. 

• 2:56 Current dynamics on the ground in Minneapolis
• 5:03 Communities Organizing Power and Action for Latinos (COPAL)
• 6:53 Francisco Segovia's story
• 14:26 What is a constitutional observer? 
• 22:27 Reflections on Renee Good
• 28:59 Training efforts to try and keep protesters safe
• 34:42 What kind of immigration enforcement is legitimate? 

Hey, Los Angeles! Come see Ross in conversation with the columnist Jamelle Bouie and the editor of New York Times Opinion, Katie Kingsbury, on Tuesday, Jan. 20. They’ll take stock of the first year of Trump’s second term and debate the administration’s biggest actions so far and what it all means for our country. Get tickets here while they’re still available.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

What should the U.S. do next in Venezuela? President Trump’s former Venezuela envoy Elliott Abrams wants the Trump administration to push harder for full regime change. But, he and Ross debate if a democratic transition is even possible based on the administration’s interests and past American efforts in the region.

• 01:15 - The case for regime change in Venezuela
• 07:43 - The Trump administration’s current strategy
• 14:06 - The Abrams Plan: An alternative approach
• 17:50 - Oil blockades, sanctions, and military action
• 28:54 - Past transitions in Latin America
• 36:06 - The Reagan administration's “unsavory allies”
• 43:57 - Trump’s priorities are a “mystery”

(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)

Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

This week we’re sharing an episode of ‘Making Sense With Sam Harris.’ The author and podcaster recently invited Ross on his show to discuss religion and politics. But they debated so much more: the existence of God, the mystery of the cosmos, the limits of consciousness, moral progress and even whether demons walk among us.

Note: This recording has not been fact-checked by our team.

(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)

Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

Merry Christmas and happy holidays! This week Ross Douthat shares one of his favorite poems for the occasion, “The Journey of the Magi,” written by T.S. Eliot, to reflect on a year one might call “interesting.” See you next year!

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

Edgelords, Groypers, Sydney Sweeney’s jeans. American pop culture is having a right-wing moment. Ross recently joined the “Popcast” hosts Jon Caramanica and Joe Coscarelli to debate whether it will ever be truly cool to be conservative in Hollywood.

(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)

Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

After Charlie Kirk’s assassination, conspiracy theories and divisions multiplied on the right. On this episode of “Interesting Times,” Ross talks to Andrew Kolvet, a Turning Point USA spokesperson and executive producer of “The Charlie Kirk Show,” about what happens to a movement when its charismatic leader is gone, what it’s like to be the target of conspiracy theories, and whether there are any issues unifying conservatism now.

• 01:32 - Andrew’s friendship with Charlie Kirk
• 05:18 - Turning Point U.S.A.’s activism and impact
• 11:16 - Charlie Kirk’s assassination and its aftermath
• 18:42 - The divisions on the right start with conspiracy theories 
• 38:28 - “Can the right hold together on Israel?”
• 41:19 - Stress-testing the cohesion on the right
• 56:08 - The Erika Kirk/Trump contrast

(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)

Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

The transgender rights movement in America appeared to be gaining momentum. But after suffering a big loss before the Supreme Court in June and facing a shift in public opinion, where does the fight go now? 

On this episode of “Interesting Times,” Ross is joined by Chase Strangio, a transgender rights activist and a lawyer with the American Civil Liberties Union, to discuss strategy in the courtroom and in the court of public opinion — as well as broader philosophical questions about transgender identity.

• 02:15 - Bostock vs. Clayton County
• 08:30 - United States v. Skrmetti
• 22:57 - Defining sex, gender identity and transgender identity
• 32:52 - Chase talks about “coming home”
• 40:42 - Healthcare for transgender youth is changing
• 56:58 - Sports and transgender athletes
• 1:07:49 - Coexistence within the debate

(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)

Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.