When Jacinda Ardern was thrown into the race for New Zealand’s prime ministry just months before the general election in 2017, she had no intention of even running for the position—but she knew it was her responsibility to become the leader her country needed. In this episode, Adam and Jacinda reflect on strategies for closing confidence gaps, discuss the importance of compassion in leadership, and break down a phenomenon that New Zealanders call “tall poppy syndrome.” They also look back on Jacinda’s most pivotal decisions, from steering the country through the COVID pandemic to stepping down as Prime Minister.

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Host: Adam Grant (Instagram: @adamgrant | LinkedIn: @adammgrant | Website: adamgrant.net/)

Guest: Jacinda Ardern (Instagram: @jacindaardern)

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ReThinking is produced by Cosmic Standard. Our Senior Producer is Jessica Glazer, our Engineer is Aja Simpson, our Technical Director is Jacob Winik, and our Executive Producer is Eliza Smith.

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