Chris and Ashy head to the Saracens training base for a special pod about one of the most influential figures in English club rugby history. After 17 trophy-laden years at Sarries, Mark McCall is standing down as director of rugby at the end of the season. We speak to the man himself who explains why now is the time to move on, and what place he is leaving the club in. Two of Sarries’ senior players, Ben Earl and Nick Tompkins, share their memories of being coached by McCall, and explain what makes him such a good leader. We are also joined by journalist Gavin Mairs to discuss McCall’s legacy. Is he the best director of rugby in PREM history? How much does the salary cap scandal of 2019/2020 tarnish his reputation? And will the RFU miss a trick if they don’t tap into his experience?