Biologist and bestselling author Dr. Jonathan Balcombe joins me to discuss fish sentience, the surprising intelligence of fishes, and what science reveals about how they think and feel. Jonathan holds a PhD in ethology, the study of animal behaviour, and has dedicated his career to understanding and communicating the inner lives of animals. He's the author of five popular science books and has published over 60 scientific papers and book chapters on animal behaviour and animal protection.

In this conversation, we dive into fascinating research showing that fishes can experience stress relief, fall for optical illusions, and even build social relationships—evidence that challenges long-held assumptions about these often-overlooked animals. We also explore the ethics of fishing and insect farming, the evolving science of animal sentience, and how language shapes our empathy toward other species.