You send one email, three people unsubscribe, and you spiral into thinking your entire business is doomed. We've all been there!

In this episode, I sit down with Mrs. Shannon Vondy — email marketing queen, ADHD squirrel brain twin, and the only person who can make emails feel like “You’ve Got Mail.” We're going DEEP on all the technical email stuff you've been wondering about but were too afraid to ask. So deep in fact that this episode feels more like a whole ass masterclass than a podcast episode!

Shannon's been doing this for 15 years (10 of which she spent avoiding email like the plague, so she gets it), and she's here to tell you the truth: email works. Period. End of story. Stop giving it one chance and then deciding it's broken.

TOPICS & TANGENTS

— List cleaning 101: why keeping people who don't want to be there is actually hurting you

— Open rates, click rates, and why 20% isn't the failure you think it is

— The dating story that became a newsletter (featuring two hot girls in gray on computers)

— Domain verification and why you should reconsider an email address like [email protected]

— Why your subject lines don't need to be Shakespearean masterpieces

— The woman who replied "what is this, the streets?" to Sara's email

— Why chasing people down the street when they unsubscribe is not a business strategy

POINT OF THE STORY

Email marketing doesn’t have to be that complicated, and your open rates aren't a reflection of your worth as a human. Stop overthinking it, start being consistent, and remember — the people who unsubscribe weren't going to buy from you anyway.

GIVEAWAY

Want a free order of bean water on me? Tag me @btlcopy and Shannon @mrs.vondy on your Instagram story while you’re listening, and one lucky winner will get TWO caffeine fixes on me!

AND — count how many times we drop the F-bomb in this episode. DM me the number, and you could win a prize!

Love you, mean it. 🖤

SHANNON LINKS

— Follow Shannon on Instagram

— Check out her website

— Clean out your email list with The Email List Detox

— Join her membership, The Email Club

— Check out all her resources and offers here

— Shannon’s walkout song

BTL LINKS

— Use code "MILLIONAIRE" for $100 off my website copywriting course, Site Series Sprint.

— Join the Point of the Story community on Slack.

— Leave feedback or episode requests in our Suggestions Box.

— To stay up to date with all things Point of the Story, follow on Instagram and Substack.

— Follow me on Instagram, Threads, and Substack.

— Subscribe to my newsletters Tuesday Table of Contents for one marketing tip, once a week and Millionaire Moment for the insider tea on how I plan to make $1 mil in sales by my 31st birthday.

— Check out my website betweenthelinescopy.com.

OTHER LINKS

— Substack post: 19 Tiny Ways I Reduce Decision Fatigue

— The Taylor Swift song Sara was referring to

— Flodesk (code: “BTLCOPY” for 50% off your first year)

— Laura Belgray (mentioned by Shannon)

TIMESTAMPS

00:00 Intro

00:24 Meet Shannon, Email Marketing Queen (aka Mrs. Vondy)

02:19 Rapid-Fire Squirrel Brain Questions

20:46 Email Marketing Actually Works (Who Knew?)

23:02 The Best Email Platform Is...

26:09 Yes, You Have to Clean Your Email List

29:33 Are Open Rates Just a Vanity Metric?

35:12 Tips for Improving Email Deliverability

43:37 How to Get Those Coveted Email Replies

55:30 Let's Talk About Unsubscribes

01:03:56 Subject Line Do's and Don'ts

01:15:36 Segmentation for Beginners

01:27:30 Closing

This episode was edited by Adrienne Cruz.

Can we talk about how everyone's out here treating Instagram like it's rocket science?

In this episode, I sit down with Katie Creative Co (yes, we call her by her full Instagram handle because that's just how iconic she is) to talk all things social media strategy. Katie's got a literal master's degree in social media, she's been creating content since middle school YouTube days, and she's here to tell you the truth: there is no secret to social media, but there is a way to make it feel natural, community-focused, and actually fun.

We're talking why your ideal client should feel like your best friend, how to actually get to know your audience (spoiler: it's not just demographics), and why the biggest mistake people make is spending all their time posting instead of listening.

Also, Katie makes playlists for her clients based on their brand vibes, which is possibly the cutest thing I've ever heard, and I formally demand she makes one for herself immediately.

TOPICS & TANGENTS

— Why there's no secret Instagram formula

— How to research your audience when you don't have one yet

— The Mr. Potato Head approach to creating your ideal client

— How to make social media easier by doing what feels natural

— Recording your discovery calls for content gold mine material

— Why you should stop checking your analytics 15 times before noon

POINT OF THE STORY

Social media isn't rocket science, it's just conversations. When you stop overthinking it and start showing up as yourself (with your personality, perspective, and genuine care for your people) everything gets easier.

GIVEAWAY

Want a free order of bean water on me? Tag me @btlcopy and Katie @katiecreativeco on your Instagram story while you’re listening, and one lucky winner will get TWO caffeine fixes on me!

AND — count how many times we drop the F-bomb in this episode. DM me the number, and you could win a prize!

Love you, mean it.

KATIE LINKS

— Follow Katie Creative Co on Instagram

— Check out her website

— Join Katie’s group program Social Sweet Spot

— Katie’s EXCELLENT About Page

— Katie’s walkout songs: song 1 + song 2

BTL LINKS

— Use code "MILLIONAIRE" for $100 off my website copywriting course, Site Series Sprint.

— Join the Point of the Story community on Slack.

— Leave feedback or episode requests in our Suggestions Box.

— To stay up to date with all things Point of the Story, follow on Instagram and Substack.

— Follow me on Instagram, Threads, and Substack.

— Subscribe to my newsletters Tuesday Table of Contents for one marketing tip, once a week and Millionaire Moment for the insider tea on how I plan to make $1 mil in sales by my 31st birthday.

— Check out my website betweenthelinescopy.com.

OTHER LINKS

— Follow the The Idea Haven on Instagram

— Follow Alexia Degremont on Instagram

TIMESTAMPS

00:00 Intro

00:25 Meet Katie, Social Media Strategist + Playlist Queen

03:01 Rapid-Fire Squirrel Brain Questions

16:42 There's No Secret Formula for Social Media

21:03 3 Questions to Start Creating Your Social Media Strategy

24:44 Get to Know Your Audience Like They're Your Best Friend

31:23 Creating Your Ideal Client Mr. Potato Head Style

41:15 Getting Specific Even If It Turns People Away

50:11 Personality + Perspective = Your Entire Strategy

58:51 Making Social Media Easier (It's Not That Serious)

01:01:54 Closing

This episode was edited by Adrienne Cruz.

You didn’t hear it from me…

But Showit’s Director of Marketing has some thoughts about AI content, lazy brands, and why “just post it” might be the best marketing advice you’ll ever get.

(Also, he might be one of the smartest marketers I know. And yes, he’s about to become your fave too!)

In this episode, I sit down with James Nwobu — marketing leader, mindset king, and unofficial philosopher of content creation. He’s the type of guy who can casually drop a truth bomb about brand integrity and challenge your limiting beliefs in the same breath. Oh, and he once helped ShowIt post 50 videos in one day. No big deal.

TOPICS & TANGENTS

— Why “putting people first” is a marketing non-negotiable

— What athletes can teach us about mindset + consistency

— James’ antidote to imposter syndrome (it involves ants)

— What AI can’t do (and why trying to cut corners will cost you)

— How to repurpose everything and show up more without burnout

— The one piece of Showit team tea I forced James to spill

POINT OF THE STORY

The best way to market yourself is to become yourself. When you show up with consistency, clarity, and actual care for your people, you become unforgettable.

GIVEAWAY

Want a free order of bean water on me? Tag me @btlcopy and Showit @showit on your Instagram story while you’re listening, and one lucky winner will get TWO caffeine fixes on me!

AND — count how many times we drop the F-bomb in this episode. DM me the number, and you could win a prize!

Love you, mean it. 🖤

JAMES LINKS

— Follow James and Showit on Instagram

— Check out his website

— James’s walkout songs: song 1 + song 2

BTL LINKS

— Use code "MILLIONAIRE" for $100 off my website copywriting course, Site Series Sprint.

— Join the Point of the Story community on Slack.

— Leave feedback or episode requests in our Suggestions Box.

— To stay up to date with all things Point of the Story, follow on Instagram and Substack.

— Follow me on Instagram, Threads, and Substack.

— Subscribe to my newsletters Tuesday Table of Contents for one marketing tip, once a week and Millionaire Moment for the insider tea on how I plan to make $1 mil in sales by my 31st birthday.

— Check out my website betweenthelinescopy.com.

OTHER LINKS

— Click here to get one FREE month of Showit!

— Blog post: Showit vs Squarespace: Which Should You Choose in 2025?

— Showit’s viral reel: “How we keep our meetings short”

TIMESTAMPS

00:00 Intro

00:25 Meet James, Director of Marketing at Showit

01:25 Rapid-Fire Squirrel Brain Questions

06:50 Marketing Is About People First

10:33 The 50 Videos in a Day Showit Experiment

20:04 Stop Letting the Ants Win

24:49 The Athlete Marketing Mindset

35:20 Bonus Showit Tea

38:48 Closing

This episode was edited by Adrienne Cruz.

If you’re reading this, you need SEO.

And if the fact that your website isn’t ranking for shit has been simmering on the back burner of your brain for months (or years), but you keep telling yourself you’ll figure it out later… Guess what? Later is now!

In this episode, I sit down with Mariah Magazine, SEO strategist and the only person who makes metadata sound sexy. We’re debunking myths, dragging design decisions that tank your rankings, and explaining how you can make SEO work in your favor.

Also… Mariah Magazine is not her real name, but you’ll have to listen to the episode to hear all about that story.

TOPICS & TANGENTS

— Why blog posts aren’t automatically the SEO magic trick you think they are

— The “SEO sandwich” every website needs

— Keyword logic 101: let the phrase tell you where it goes

— Why basic AI-generated blogs are a terrible idea

— Contact form etiquette (and Sara’s ex’s Hollister points)

— What MySpace usernames have to do with SEO

POINT OF THE STORY

You can’t rig Google with random keywords. Good SEO is real writing — for real people — so you show up as the BEST answer to the question they’re asking.

GIVEAWAY

This week’s giveaway is different! Tag me @btlcopy and Mariah Magazine @mariahmagazineco on your Instagram story while you’re listening, and one lucky winner will get our $149 Copy x SEO Masterclass for FREE!

AND — count how many times we drop the F-bomb in this episode. DM me the number, and you could win a prize!

Love you, mean it. 🖤

MARIAH LINKS

— Follow Mariah on Instagram

— Check out her website

— Tune in to the Curiously Guided podcast

— DIY SEO Course

— Use the code SEOLOVE10 for $10 off in the SEO for Designers Workshop

— For even more resources click here!

— Mariah’s walkout songs: song 1 + song 2

BTL LINKS

— Use code "MILLIONAIRE" for $100 off my website copywriting course, Site Series Sprint.

— Join the Point of the Story community on Slack.

— Leave feedback or episode requests in our Suggestions Box.

— To stay up to date with all things Point of the Story, follow on Instagram and Substack.

— Follow me on Instagram, Threads, and Substack.

— Subscribe to my newsletters Tuesday Table of Contents for one marketing tip, once a week and Millionaire Moment for the insider tea on how I plan to make $1 mil in sales by my 31st birthday.

— Check out my website betweenthelinescopy.com.

OTHER LINKS

— Blog post: Showit vs Squarespace: Which Should You Choose in 2025?

— Sara and Mariah’s Copy x SEO Masterclass

— Blog post: How To Write Your Contact Page (Cuz, Yeah, It Matters)

TIMESTAMPS

00:00 Intro

00:25 Meet Mariah Magazine, SEO Strategist

02:20 The MySpace Name That Became a Brand

08:16 Rapid-Fire Squirrel Brain Questions

17:53 It’s Not Just About Blog Posts

21:20 The Different Kinds of Search Intent

25:13 Why Story-Driven Blog Posts Win at SEO

30:06 The Keyword Will Tell You Where It Belongs

36:36 Keywords for Your Homepage vs. Services Page

38:37 Why SEO Feels So Complicated

44:10 Mariah’s SEO Icks

51:38 The SEO Sandwich

53:01  Closing

This episode was edited by Adrienne Cruz.

An incomplete list of things that do not make you iconic:

1. Having a tragic backstory

2. Treating every Instagram post like it’s a free masterclass

3. Saying five different things about your business and hoping one of them sticks

You know what DOES make you iconic?

Clear messaging + creative delivery.

In this episode, I interview brand messaging expert, Diet Coke connoisseur, and iconic girly in her own right, Abbie Radford. We’re talking about saying less (but way better), storytelling that doesn’t require trauma-dumping, and how to create “that’s me!” energy in your content — even if you’re secretly thinking, “My story is boring and I don’t know what the fuck to post.”

TOPICS & TANGENTS

— What makes a brand “iconic”

— Why your messaging is probably trying to do too much

— The Diet Coke copywriting masterclass you didn’t know you needed

— The real reason no one’s clicking on your stuff

— Storytelling vs. trauma-dumping: how to connect without oversharing

— Pretending to be an influencer in the back of an Uber

— What to say when you’ve never personally struggled with what you teach

POINT OF THE STORY

To be iconic, say something only you can say, and do it in a way that makes people feel like they already know you. Say less. Say it better.

GIVEAWAY

Want a free order of bean water on me? Tag me @btlcopy and Abbie Radford @thisisabbieradford on your Instagram story while you’re listening, and one lucky winner will get TWO caffeine fixes on me!

AND — count how many times we drop the F-bomb in this episode. DM me the number, and you could win a prize!

Love you, mean it. 🖤

ABBIE LINKS

— Follow Abbie on Instagram

— Check out her website

— Listen to The Industry Icon Podcast

— Abbie’s walkout song

— Abbie’s Diet Coke reel

BTL LINKS

— Use code "MILLIONAIRE" for $100 off my website copywriting course, Site Series Sprint.

— Join the Point of the Story community on Slack.

— Leave feedback or episode requests in our Suggestions Box.

— To stay up to date with all things Point of the Story, follow on Instagram and Substack.

— Follow me on Instagram, Threads, and Substack.

— Subscribe to my newsletters Tuesday Table of Contents for one marketing tip, once a week and Millionaire Moment for the insider tea on how I plan to make $1 mil in sales by my 31st birthday.

— Check out my website betweenthelinescopy.com.

OTHER LINKS

— Book: Manifest: 7 Steps to Living Your Best Life

— Blog post: Showit vs Squarespace: Which Should You Choose in 2025?

— Blog post: Are Tonic Site Shop’s Showit Website Templates Really Worth It In 2024?

— Workshop: I’m Cool, But My About Page Isn’t

TIMESTAMPS

00:00 Intro

00:24 Meet Abbie, Messaging Queen + Diet Coke Connoisseur

01:14 Rapid-Fire Squirrel Brain Questions

18:28 Messaging 101: Say Less (But Say It Better)

24:12 Why Telling Your Story Is the Best SEO Strategy

30:40 What If You’ve Never Struggled With What You Teach?

34:04 Your Dream Ted Talk: Where to Start with Messaging

40:07 The Kind of Niching that Works

44:32 Being Creative With Your Content

54:50 Closing

This episode was edited by Adrienne Cruz.

I’ve got more testimonials than I know what to do with. Love notes. Slack screenshots. Emails that made me tear up a little. But for the longest time, I was just letting them collect digital dust.

Until I met Jocelyn.⁣ She’s the mastermind behind Best Seller, a course that’s teaching me how to turn client results into actual marketing gold —not just "Sarah is amazing!!" but “Sarah is amazing AND here's the specific transformation she helped me achieve, broken down like an actual plot line.”

We talk about why your social proof isn’t working the way you want it to, what kind of questions you should be asking your clients, and how to repurpose your case studies across literally every platform — not just buried in a highlight on your IG.

You’re gonna learn a lot. You’re gonna laugh. You’re gonna want a sticker sleeve.

TOPICS & TANGENTS

— The difference between case studies and testimonials

— What a case study collection system is and why you probably need one

— The unhinged rage I feel when someone misuses the word aesthetic (I will die on this grammar hill)

— Why your onboarding form might be your biggest missed opportunity

— Why tattoo artists lowkey hate my arms (symmetry? never heard of her)

POINT OF THE STORY

Social proof hooks. Stories convert. If you want people to see themselves in your offer, don’t just tell them “it worked” — show them how it can work for someone exactly like them.

GIVEAWAY

Want a free order of bean water on me? Tag me @btlcopy and Jocelyn Montemarano @scaleyourresonance on your Instagram story while you’re listening, and one lucky winner will get TWO caffeine fixes on me!

AND — count how many times we drop the F-bomb in this episode. DM me the number, and you could win a prize!

Love you, mean it. 🖤

JOCELYN LINKS

— Follow Jocelyn on Instagram and Threads

— Check out her website

— Take Jocelyn’s free micro-class

— Join Jocelyn’s program Best Seller

— Jocelyn’s walkout song

BTL LINKS

— Use code "MILLIONAIRE" for $100 off my website copywriting course, Site Series Sprint.

— Join the Point of the Story community on Slack.

— Leave feedback or episode requests in our Suggestions Box.

— To stay up to date with all things Point of the Story, follow on Instagram and Substack.

— Follow me on Instagram, Threads, and Substack.

— Subscribe to my newsletters Tuesday Table of Contents for one marketing tip, once a week and Millionaire Moment for the insider tea on how I plan to make $1 mil in sales by my 31st birthday.

— Check out my website betweenthelinescopy.com.

TIMESTAMPS

00:00 Intro

00:22 Meet Jocelyn, the Case Study Queen

02:52 Rapid-Fire Squirrel Brain Questions

18:19 Why Social Proof Isn’t Converting

23:25 Where to Use Case Studies in Your Marketing

28:43 Using Stories to Attract (Not Just Sell)

31:11 What Is a Case Study Collection System?

49:46 Key Questions for Effective Case Studies

53:54 Closing

This episode was edited by Adrienne Cruz.

If you’ve ever felt like buying a house is some mysterious, unattainable, "adultier adult" milestone... I get it. It took me ages to do it, and the process was like trying to solve a Rubik’s cube blindfolded — while signing 37 forms.

Which is exactly why I dragged my real-life bestie and first-time homebuyer expert, Alli Moore, onto the pod today. (Dragged lovingly, obviously.)

Alli is here to walk us through WTF a loan officer actually does, how the home buying process works, and what you need to know if you’re self-employed and still want your white-picket-fence moment.

TOPICS & TANGENTS

— Why buying a house as a self-employed girly is not as scary as TikTok makes it sound

— The crucial thing you need to tell your accountant before you even start stalking Zillow

— Why your rent vibes do not translate to mortgage vibes

— How not to accidentally kill your pre-approval status while you're in limbo

— Our unhinged homebuying stories: bullying, bad math, and a Cape Cod side quest

POINT OF THE STORY

Find a house you can afford, live your life in, and not cry every time a bill shows up. That’s the dream.

ALLI LINKS

— Follow Alli on Instagram here and here

— Subscribe to her newsletter to for home-buying tips

— Alli’s walkout songs: song 1, song 2

BTL LINKS

— Use code "MILLIONAIRE" for $100 off my website copywriting course, Site Series Sprint.

— Join the Point of the Story community on Slack.

— Leave feedback or episode requests in our Suggestions Box.

— To stay up to date with all things Point of the Story, follow on Instagram and Substack.

— Follow me on Instagram, Threads, and Substack.

— Subscribe to my newsletters Tuesday Table of Contents for one marketing tip, once a week and Millionaire Moment for the insider tea on how I plan to make $1 mil in sales by my 31st birthday.

— Check out my website betweenthelinescopy.com.

OTHER LINKS

— Bookkeepers: Peach Perfect Financials, Madison Dearly, Coyne Bookkeeping

— Sara’s high-yield savings account

— Annual Credit Report website

TIMESTAMPS

00:00 Intro

00:26 Meet Allie, the First-Time Homebuyer Whisperer

03:26 Rapid-Fire Squirrel Brain Questions

18:27 What Even Is a Loan Officer?

22:42 Buying a House as a Self-Employed Squirrel

29:18 The Homebuying Process, Step-by-Step

41:01 Our Homebuying Stories

54:14 How Equity Works (and Why You Should Care)

57:55 Debt, Credit, and Other Capitalist Nonsense You Still Have to Deal With

01:05:46 Closing

This episode was edited by Adrienne Cruz.

Okay, listen. I timed myself making a single carousel post, and it took me 55 minutes and 53 seconds. (I have Toggl receipts.) So when Gemma Watts said you could run a whole social media strategy in just 15 minutes a day, I was like… girl, be serious.

But turns out… she was!

Gemma — aka The Social Cottage, aka the queen of cozy social media strategy — is a former teacher turned content strategist who helps business owners market themselves without letting social media devour their entire life.

This might be the most get-your-life-together episode of season 2 — Gemma gives you a full, step-by-step system to make your content take less time, feel more fun, and actually do something for your business. There’s even homework at the end, so grab your notebook!

TOPICS & TANGENTS

— Why your content is taking too long to make

— Gemma’s 15-minute strategy for showing up consistently on social media

— The “stories, skills, symptoms, shifting objections” content system and how to use it

— The ADHD struggle of putting laundry in but never taking it out

— Why motherhood doesn’t have to be your only source of fulfillment

— How to grow an Instagram account from zero with no welcome post

POINT OF THE STORY

You don’t need to post daily Canva masterpieces. You just need a system that works with your brain (and 15 minutes a day).

GIVEAWAY

Want a free order of bean water on me? Tag me @btlcopy and Gemma Watts @thissocialcottage on your Instagram story while you’re listening, and one lucky winner will get TWO caffeine fixes on me!

AND — count how many times we drop the F-bomb in this episode. DM me the number, and you could win a prize!

Love you, mean it. 🖤

GEMMA LINKS

— Follow Gemma on Instagram

— Check out her website

— Follow her on Substack

— Get Gemma’s prompts in your inbox

— Get her FREE Caption Creator

— Get her 15-Minute Growth Guide

— Gemma’s walkout song

BTL LINKS

— Use code "MILLIONAIRE" for $100 off my website copywriting course, Site Series Sprint.

— Join the Point of the Story community on Slack.

— Leave feedback or episode requests in our Suggestions Box.

— To stay up to date with all things Point of the Story, follow on Instagram and Substack.

— Follow me on Instagram, Threads, and Substack.

— Subscribe to my newsletters Tuesday Table of Contents for one marketing tip, once a week and Millionaire Moment for the insider tea on how I plan to make $1 mil in sales by my 31st birthday.

— Check out my website betweenthelinescopy.com.

OTHER LINKS

— The girl who talks to her baby on Tiktok

TIMESTAMPS

00:00 Intro

00:24 Meet Gemma, the Cozy Strategy Queen

01:41 Rapid-Fire Squirrel Brain Questions

18:57 The 15-Minute Social Media Strategy

26:12 Why Your Captions Take Forever

28:29 The Only Planning System You Need

34:28 "Expert" Social Media Advice That Makes Gemma Cringe

38:51 How to Not Hate Social Media

45:01 What to Post and How Often

52:40 Starting From Zero: Gemma's 3-Step Plan

55:17 Closing

This episode was edited by Adrienne Cruz.

Be honest. When was the last time you said you were gonna launch something… and then let your idea sit in a Google Doc because you “just need to finish the sales page” or “should probably finish all this client work first.”

(I’ll go first. It was last month.)

This week on the pod, I brought in one of my faves — and one of yours, too — Kelsey McCormick of Coming Up Roses. Kelsey’s the go-to expert on launching your own way (yes, even if you’re squiggly, squirrel-brained, or about to have your second baby).

And because I know y’all come here for the actual tea, I didn’t ask her the “So, tell us how you got started” questions. No ma’am. I asked the good stuff, like: “What should you do first when you have a cold audience,” “How often should you launch,” and sooooo much more!

TOPICS & TANGENTS

— What “campaign thinking” actually means and how it can chill out your business

— The tragic ADHD guilt of forgetting your kid's snack request

— What to do about the very real urge to avoid your own launches

— Kelsey’s 3-step warm-up strategy for cold audiences

— Our Myspace song eras and why we all peaked with profile music

— The reason your past launches might’ve flopped

— The underrated power of building in public

POINT OF THE STORY

You don’t need to figure it all out before you start launching, but you DEFINITELY need a deadline.

GIVEAWAY

Want a free order of bean water on me? Tag me @btlcopy and Kelsey McCormick @cominguproses.co on your Instagram story while you’re listening, and one lucky winner will get TWO caffeine fixes on me!

AND — count how many times we drop the F-bomb in this episode. DM me the number, and you could win a prize!

Love you, mean it. 🖤

KELSEY LINKS

— Follow Kelsey on Instagram

— Check out her website

— Kelsey’s famous progam Launch Your Own Way

— Listen to her private podcast The Warm Up

— Kelsey’s walkout song

BTL LINKS

— Use code "MILLIONAIRE" for $100 off my website copywriting course, Site Series Sprint.

— Join the Point of the Story community on Slack.

— Leave feedback or episode requests in our Suggestions Box.

— To stay up to date with all things Point of the Story, follow on Instagram and Substack.

— Follow me on Instagram, Threads, and Substack.

— Subscribe to my newsletters Tuesday Table of Contents for one marketing tip, once a week and Millionaire Moment for the insider tea on how I plan to make $1 mil in sales by my 31st birthday.

— Check out my website betweenthelinescopy.com.

OTHER LINKS

— Mentioned by Kelsey: Michelle @byhellolemon and Alyssa @atnndesign

TIMESTAMPS

00:00 Intro

00:25 Meet Kelsey, the Squiggly Launch Queen

02:09 Rapid-Fire Squirrel Brain Questions

19:47 Campaign Thinking 101

22:52 The Inaction Problem No One Wants to Admit

30:21 How to Warm Up a Cold Audience

39:07 Can You Just Copy-Paste a Launch That Worked?

51:11 Closing

This episode was edited by Adrienne Cruz.

Okay, picture this: it’s 9am, you’re in a full face of makeup and red leather pants belting RENT at an audition — and by 2pm, you’re back home in sweatpants designing someone’s dream website.

That’s just a Tuesday in the life of Sarah Kleist.

She’s a New York-based actor and Showit website designer, and also one of my real-life best friends, my longest-running creative collaborator, and the most organized Notion girlie you’ve ever met.

In this episode, we’re talking all about living a double life as a multi-passionate human, why “simple” websites aren’t always the move, and how to make a template look like a million bucks. Plus, we share the behind-the-scenes of what it’s like to collaborate on all the dreamy copy/design projects we’ve done together (and why we absolutely refuse to share a contract system. Ever.).

TOPICS & TANGENTS

— Why template websites aren’t a cop-out (and how to make them look custom!)

— The very specific power of red leather pants and a good walkout song

— Why you need more website pages than you think

— The Notion obsession that will either inspire you or make your brain short-circuit

— A highly emotional tangent about seltzer, energy drinks, and being short in real life

— A mini lesson on the real difference between being outgoing and being an extrovert

— The exact moment we went from TikTok mutuals to real-life besties

— How our copy/design collabs actually work

POINT OF THE STORY

A solid website template and smart UX will take you far. (A fresh Notion hub wouldn’t hurt either.)

GIVEAWAY

Want a free order of bean water on me? Tag me @btlcopy and Sarah Kleist @kleistcreative on your Instagram story while you’re listening, and one lucky winner will get TWO caffeine fixes on me!

AND — count how many times we drop the F-bomb in this episode. DM me the number, and you could win a prize!

Love you, mean it. 🖤

KLEIST LINKS

— Follow Kleist on Instagram

— Check out her obviously kickass website

— Download Kleist’s viral freebie: The To-Done List

— BTL Copy x Kleist Creative - hire us together!

— Kleist’s walkout song

BTL LINKS

— Use code "MILLIONAIRE" for $100 off my website copywriting course, Site Series Sprint.

— Join the Point of the Story community on Slack.

— Leave feedback or episode requests in our Suggestions Box.

— To stay up to date with all things Point of the Story, follow on Instagram and Substack.

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OTHER LINKS

— The book that inspired Kleist to reach out to me and the group we both joined as a result

— What I asked you to search up on TikTok

— Websites mentioned: Madden Made Events (designed with the Manhattan template by Tonic Site Shop), The Legalzine, Kat Wolff Creates, Frances House, Ashley Flowers, Monocle Productions, Katherine Marchand

TIMESTAMPS

00:00 Intro

00:23 Meet Sarah Kleist, The Best Showit Website Designer

06:03 Rapid-Fire Squirrel Brain Questions

18:02 The Truth About Templates, UX, and Doing Too Much

22:57 The To-Done List and Tracking Your Entire Life

28:17 What It’s Like to Work with Sarah + Sara

38:32 Favorite Projects We’ve Done Together

42:31 What We’re Actually Like in Real Life

48:21 Closing

This episode was edited by Adrienne Cruz.