My best friend Sarah Kleist showed up today, kicked me out of the host seat, and decided she was running the show… and I let her.

(Ok fine, I planned it, but still!)

Welcome to Episode 1 of the Switcheroo Series — where my closest friends get to interview me, ask their nosiest questions, and finally get answers to the stuff I never think to bring up on my own.

Sarah Kleist is a Showit website designer, a professional actor / theater kid, a certified podcast addict, and — per a Forbes article she somehow forgot existed — one of the most talented designers in the game. She's been to Cape Cod at least three times, and I love her dearly, so she was the perfect person to go first!

TOPICS & TANGENTS

— A perfect day on Cape Cod, narrated in painfully specific detail

— The lore behind the Cape Cod Instagram account

— How I use trial reels

— Is it easier to start a design business or a copywriting business? (We fought about it, and it was fine, we're from Boston and New York)

— What I would change if I were running Kleist Creative

— The template subscription idea that the listeners might actually be able to make happen (DM Kleist if you want it)

— How to handle client feedback you disagree with, without being a bitch about it

— What I would do for a living if copywriting and teaching didn't exist (you’ll literally never guess)

— Foundational blogs every branding and website designer needs to launch with

POINT OF THE STORY

Sarah Kleist is the best Showit website designer, and you should definitely hire her.

Love you, mean it. 🖤

KLEIST LINKS

— Follow Kleist on Instagram

— Check out her obviously kickass website

— Download Kleist’s viral freebie: The To-Done List

— BTL Copy x Kleist Creative - hire us together!

BTL LINKS

— All of my website copy resources:

betweenthelinescopy.com/web-copy

— All of my email marketing resources:

betweenthelinescopy.com/email-marketing

— Take my website copywriting course:

betweenthelinescopy.com/sprint

— Sponsor this podcast (or my newsletter!):

betweenthelinescopy.com/sponsorships

— Follow me on Instagram at

instagram.com/btlcopy

OR

instagram.com/capecodcierge

— Subscribe to my marketing newsletter at

www.betweenthelinescopy.com/subscribe

— Subscribe to my ADHD newsletter at

bysarajoelle.substack.com

— Subscribe to my copywriter-only newsletter at

btlcopy.myflodesk.com/open-loop

— Subscribe to my designer-only newsletter at

btlcopy.myflodesk.com/for-designers

— Check out my website at

www.betweenthelinescopy.com

OTHER LINKS

— Sarah Kleist’s "Defying Gravity" pop-punk YouTube cover

— My Cape Cod alternate Instagram account

— Forbes article about Sarah Kleist

— Point of the Story episodes mentioned: Why Your Website Feels Off, And How to Fix It with Sarah Kleist, SEO for People Who’ve Been Avoiding It with Mariah Magazine, How To Make Your Old Blogs Relevant Again: Inside the Biggest SEO Hack With Maven Made Copy

Mentioned in this episode:

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Picture yourself at a coffee shop. Noise-canceling headphones in. Oat milk latte secured. You opened the laptop, you pulled up the thing you need to do, you have the document right there — and then you spent 25 minutes reading the Wikipedia page for a movie you saw in 2014.

This is not a hypothetical. This is just a typical Tuesday in the life of someone who struggles with executive function skills.

And if this is you, I want you to know that you are not broken, lazy, or uniquely, specially bad at being a human. You are stuck. And being stuck is not the same as procrastinating, even though we've been using those words interchangeably our whole lives like they mean the same thing!

In this episode, executive function coach Sarah Lovell breaks down what's really happening when you can't get yourself to start the thing — and it is not what you think. We get into perfectionism as avoidance, decision fatigue, why "eat the frog" is objectively terrible advice for ADHD brains, and the concept of a "healthy time crunch" that I have already started implementing and am absolutely going to be talking about forever.

TOPICS & TANGENTS

— We define executive function, obviously

— The difference between procrastinating and being stuck

— Why "name it to tame it" is legitimate science

— The iceberg underneath why you can't start something you actually want to do

— Decision fatigue, demand avoidance, and why Steve Jobs wore the same outfit every day

— The 2009 DJ Earworm mashup that is not on Spotify

— "Eat the frog" is a scam

— How to create urgency when you have no deadlines

— Matching your task to your energy type — Buy the planner even if you only use it for two weeks

POINT OF THE STORY

Stop trying to squeeze yourself into tools and strategies that weren't made for you, and start asking: what actually works for how I'm wired?

Love you, mean it. 🖤

SARAH LINKS

— Follow Sarah on Instagram and Threads

— Check out her website

— Learn about her 1:1 coaching and group coaching

— Grab her freebie, The ADHD Action Plan

— Tune in to her podcast, From Stuck to Started

— Her walkout song

BTL LINKS

— All of my website copy resources: betweenthelinescopy.com/web-copy

— All of my email marketing resources: betweenthelinescopy.com/email-marketing

— Take my website copywriting course: betweenthelinescopy.com/sprint

— Sponsor this podcast (or my newsletter!): betweenthelinescopy.com/sponsorships

— Follow me on Instagram at instagram.com/btlcopy OR instagram.com/capecodcierge

— Subscribe to my marketing newsletter at www.betweenthelinescopy.com/subscribe

— Subscribe to my ADHD newsletter at bysarajoelle.substack.com

— Subscribe to my copywriter-only newsletter at btlcopy.myflodesk.com/open-loop

— Subscribe to my designer-only newsletter at btlcopy.myflodesk.com/for-designers

— Check out my website at www.betweenthelinescopy.com

OTHER LINKS

— Past episode: How to Keep Promises to Yourself (Even With ADHD)

This episode was edited by Adrienne Cruz.

Mentioned in this episode:

For $31/mo, get FIVE personal story prompts a month for your newsletter!

Sara's Swipe File: A Newsletter Storytelling Subscription

Have you ever watched someone accomplish something and thought, “I could do that. Actually, I could probably do that better!”

But yet, here you are NOT doing it, while they’re out there doing it mediocrely. The gap between you and them isn't talent or credentials or timing. It's one question you haven't asked yourself yet: why not me?

I'm joined by Sage Rountree — PhD, author of thirteen books, master yoga teacher trainer, and ultra-marathon coach. Sage has built her entire life around this deceptively simple question of “why not me?”

It's what got her her first book deal and convinced her to buy a yoga studio she initially wanted nothing to do with. It shapes the way she mentors yoga teachers who are convinced they're too old, too injured, too inexperienced, or too something to do the thing they actually feel called to do.

(Btw, they’re not, and neither are you!)

TOPICS & TANGENTS

— SMFR: Sage's alter ego

— How a 20-minute email sent on a whim landed Sage her first book deal

— Why pitching yourself is really about solving their problem, not proving yours

— Why imposter syndrome is sometimes just self-sabotage in a trench coat

— The DNF vs. DNS rule

— What your perceived limitations have to do with who you're actually meant to serve

— Sage's advice for the person who's finally ready to just fucking do it

POINT OF THE STORY

The only thing worse than failing is never starting. If someone else has it, it's possible — and that means it could be you. So ask yourself, “why not me?” and do the damn thing!

Love you, mean it. 🖤

SAGE LINKS

— Follow Sage on Instagram and Threads

— Check out her website and yoga website

— Subscribe to her newsletter, Sage Advice

— Grab her freebies

— Check out her books

— Tune in to her podcast, Yoga Teacher Confidential

— Her walkout song

BTL LINKS

— Use code "MILLIONAIRE" for $100 off my website copywriting course, Site Series Sprint.

— Join the Point of the Story community on Slack.

— Leave feedback or episode requests in our Suggestions Box.

— To stay up to date with all things Point of the Story, follow on Instagram and Substack.

— Follow me on Instagram, Threads, and Substack.

— Subscribe to my newsletters Tuesday Table of Contents for one marketing tip, once a week and Millionaire Moment for the insider tea on how I plan to make $1 mil in sales by my 31st birthday.

— Check out my website betweenthelinescopy.com.

This episode was edited by Adrienne Cruz.

Mentioned in this episode:

For $31/mo, get FIVE personal story prompts a month for your newsletter!

Sara's Swipe File: A Newsletter Storytelling Subscription

When's the last time you looked at your old blog posts?

Because if you've been blogging for more than a year, I'd bet good money there are broken links, outdated info, old offers, and maybe even a reference to a husband that no longer exists living rent-free on your website right now. (No, that last one isn't hypothetical.)

I sit down with Eden Sloboth of Maven Made Copy — blog writer, SEO strategist, and the woman who is single-handedly removing the remnants of my past life from my website one post at a time.

Eden creates custom blog strategies for creative entrepreneurs that combine personality and SEO — so your blog doesn't just exist but actively works for you. She's written blogs across 30+ industries and believes every business can benefit from a blog strategy.

We're talking about why updating your old blogs is one of the smartest SEO moves you're not making, how to know which posts to prioritize, and the full step-by-step process Eden uses to take a crusty old blog and make it work again.

TOPICS & TANGENTS

— Google already likes your old blogs, so use that to your advantage

— Updating a blog counts as fresh content

— The step-by-step process Eden uses to update a blog post from top to bottom

— How to figure out which blogs to prioritize first

— Internal links, external links, backlinks

— The publish date debate: is it deceitful to update it?

— How to use Google Search Console to get your updated blog re-indexed fast

— Why embedding your podcast episodes in your blogs is an accessibility and SEO win

— The leggings tier list nobody asked for but everyone needed

— Is it cheating for a copywriter to hire a blog writer?

POINT OF THE STORY

Your old blogs are assets, not archives. Update them, re-publish them, and put them back to work!

Love you, mean it. 🖤

EDEN LINKS

— Follow Eden on Instagram and Threads

— Check out her website

— Subscribe to her newsletter, Copy Connections

— Grab her free blog content calendar

— Check out her blog writing services

— Read her blog

— Her walkout song

BTL LINKS

— Use code "MILLIONAIRE" for $100 off my website copywriting course, Site Series Sprint.

— Join the Point of the Story community on Slack.

— Leave feedback or episode requests in our Suggestions Box.

— To stay up to date with all things Point of the Story, follow on Instagram and Substack.

— Follow me on Instagram, Threads, and Substack.

— Subscribe to my newsletters Tuesday Table of Contents for one marketing tip, once a week and Millionaire Moment for the insider tea on how I plan to make $1 mil in sales by my 31st birthday.

— Check out my website betweenthelinescopy.com.

OTHER LINKS

— Aerie Offline leggings

— Past episode: Accessibility 101: What Every Online Business Owner Needs to Know with Chloe Arielle

— Mariah Magazine Free Alt Text Generator

This episode was edited by Adrienne Cruz.

Mentioned in this episode:

For $31/mo, get FIVE personal story prompts a month for your newsletter!

Sara's Swipe File: A Newsletter Storytelling Subscription

You know I hate a fuck-ass pitch.

So when today’s guest slid into my inbox with the subject line "Not a fuck-ass pitch" — and then opened with "I want to teach your audience how to date their customers" — I read the whole thing and responded YES immediately.

I sit down with Hunter Myers, brand strategist, competitive karaoke legend, and six-foot-tall badass, to talk about why marketing is basically flirting with your customers and how to be the best date they’ve ever had.

TOPICS & TANGENTS

— Hunter's long-term client relationship framework: from first date to happily ever after

— Why "women-owned service-based businesses" are not an ideal client

— The trust recession, and why being human is the only antidote

— The competitive karaoke scene in Chicago that I had never heard about

— Consistency as a first impression

— Tattoos, ball sacks, and showing off

— My ninth-grade situationship

— The difference between genuine outreach and checking a box

POINT OF THE STORY

Marketing is like flirting, so stop treating people like leads and start treating them like potential dates — listening, showing up consistently, and actually giving a damn.

Love you, mean it. 🖤

HUNTER LINKS

— Follow Hunter on Instagram, Threads, and Linkedin

— Check out her website

— Subscribe to her YouTube channel

— Subscribe to her newsletter

— Tune into her podcast, The Brand Bite

— Her walkout song

BTL LINKS

— Use code "MILLIONAIRE" for $100 off my website copywriting course, Site Series Sprint.

— Join the Point of the Story community on Slack.

— Leave feedback or episode requests in our Suggestions Box.

— To stay up to date with all things Point of the Story, follow on Instagram and Substack.

— Follow me on Instagram, Threads, and Substack.

— Subscribe to my newsletters Tuesday Table of Contents for one marketing tip, once a week and Millionaire Moment for the insider tea on how I plan to make $1 mil in sales by my 31st birthday.

— Check out my website betweenthelinescopy.com.

This episode was edited by Adrienne Cruz.

Mentioned in this episode:

For $31/mo, get FIVE personal story prompts a month for your newsletter!

Sara's Swipe File: A Newsletter Storytelling Subscription

An incomplete list of business rules you totally made up and don’t have to follow:

You have to post every day.

You have to offer that service.

You have to want six figures.

You have to build the business everyone else is building.

You don't. You really, truly don't. And when you stop following everyone else's rules, your business can actually feel… good! I’m talking swivel-into-your-office-chair-with-a-running-start good (which is what today’s guest does daily to start her work day).

I’m talking with Natascha Myers of Moon and Things Co. — brand strategist, former Nashville recording artist (really!), chronic thrift queen, and the woman with the most interesting vocabulary I have ever encountered in my entire life.

I'm not joking. Pay attention to every single word that comes out of her mouth. She's the type of person who will casually say something so perfectly worded that you have to stop and be like, wait, say that again.

TOPICS & TANGENTS

— How to tell if your brand is pulling you toward someone else's version of success

— The Instagram grid audit Natascha has her clients do

— The word "albeit" and other words you've been mispronouncing with confidence your whole life

— Writing copy that sounds like you actually talk in real life

— Why Natascha reads her client copy out loud 10 times before delivering it

— That wretched Planet Fitness color scheme

— Being the through line in your brand without making it about your favorite color

POINT OF THE STORY

Entrepreneurial wellness isn't about working less. It's just a fancy way of saying: stop building a business you hate living inside. Know what success actually looks like for you, and then have the audacity to build that instead.

Love you, mean it. 🖤

NATASCHA LINKS

— Follow Natascha on Instagram and Threads

— Check out her website

— Join her luxury branding retreat, Atelier

— Subscribe to her newsletter and her Substack

— Grab her free wellbeing notices

— Her walkout song

BTL LINKS

— Use code "MILLIONAIRE" for $100 off my website copywriting course, Site Series Sprint.

— Join the Point of the Story community on Slack.

— Leave feedback or episode requests in our Suggestions Box.

— To stay up to date with all things Point of the Story, follow on Instagram and Substack.

— Follow me on Instagram, Threads, and Substack.

— Subscribe to my newsletters Tuesday Table of Contents for one marketing tip, once a week and Millionaire Moment for the insider tea on how I plan to make $1 mil in sales by my 31st birthday.

— Check out my website betweenthelinescopy.com.

This episode was edited by Adrienne Cruz.

Mentioned in this episode:

For $31/mo, get FIVE personal story prompts a month for your newsletter!

Sara's Swipe File: A Newsletter Storytelling Subscription

I've been talking about my squirrel wrangler on this podcast for months. And you guys are so nosy, I knowwww you want to know exactly what she does, what it costs, and whether you need one too.

She's here, let's get into it!

I sit down with Claire French — strategic operations consultant and the woman who signed Wesley up for spring soccer before I even asked. Claire built her consultancy around one very specific type of founder: the ones who are exceptional at what they do but whose backend looks like a Pinterest board that caught fire. She's the reason my inbox doesn't give me hives, my launches don't fall apart, and I can actually go on a date without thinking about my Dubsado.

TOPICS & TANGENTS

— What an OBM is (and why it's not the same as a VA or a tech person)

— The pitch that landed Claire the job

— The "big three" framework that will change how you think about delegation

— How to know you're ready to hire an OBM

— The Slack system that keeps my squirrel brain from losing its shit

— Why the ROI of working with an OBM has nothing to do with money

— The sneaker wall, the sour gummy worms, and 75 pairs of Air Jordans in display boxes

— Why I still haven’t updated all my funnels (do as I say, not as I do)

POINT OF THE STORY

You don't have to do everything yourself! When you stop white-knuckling every task and let the right person into your business, you get more done, make more money, and actually have a life (which is the whole point, right?).

Love you, mean it. 🖤

CLAIRE LINKS

— Follow Claire on Instagram and Threads

— Check out her website

— Browse her services

— Her walkout song

BTL LINKS

— Use code "MILLIONAIRE" for $100 off my website copywriting course, Site Series Sprint.

— Join the Point of the Story community on Slack.

— Leave feedback or episode requests in our Suggestions Box.

— To stay up to date with all things Point of the Story, follow on Instagram and Substack.

— Follow me on Instagram, Threads, and Substack.

— Subscribe to my newsletters Tuesday Table of Contents for one marketing tip, once a week.

— Check out my website betweenthelinescopy.com.

OTHER LINKS

— The Squirly Substack Post: 6 questions to ask yourself before you impulse-buy something

Note: Sara mentioned that her episode with The Hot Girl CFO came out before this one, but it hasn’t been released at the time of this episode’s publication. That one’s coming soon!

This episode was edited by Adrienne Cruz.

Mentioned in this episode:

For $31/mo, get FIVE personal story prompts a month for your newsletter!

Sara's Swipe File: A Newsletter Storytelling Subscription

Let me introduce you to the girl who moved to Kansas (on purpose, with a plan), rides horses once a week, eats strawberries in the bathtub, and has done her daily habits 279 days in a row.

She's about to fix your life!

I sit down with Ashley B. Jones — Favorite Self Coach, Dream Life Architect, and Soulmate Matchmaker. She helps recovering people-pleasing perfectionists who moonlight as professional procrastinators learn to trust their intuition, use their psychic abilities, and take confident action to make their wildest dreams come true.

She blends neuroscience and spirituality to teach practical magic for real life results — like how to turn boring daily routines into playful rituals and how to use intentionality to turn yourself into a living spell.

TOPICS & TANGENTS

— The Magnetic Habits Bingo method

— How to gentle parent your thought gremlins

— The neuroscience behind why negativity makes habits harder (and what to do about it)

— Gamifying your day: 14 whimsy-coded tips from two very squirrelly people

— Lucky Girl Syndrome, the parking gods, and choosing your identity

POINT OF THE STORY

Your intentions and your choices are the ingredients in the spell you're casting on your life. Stop waiting to feel like your favorite self — start living like her now, and watch your brain catch up.

Love you, mean it. 🖤

ASHLEY LINKS

— Follow Ashley on Instagram and Threads

— Check out her website

— Tune in to her podcast, The Effects of Butterflies

— Get The 2026 Favorite Self Blueprint | Your Spell-casting, Multi-Sensory Vision Boarding Experience

— Download The Free.99 Magnetic Habits Bingo 101 Starter Kit

— Join the waitlist for $200 off my bespoke program, Metamorphosis, when doors open in the spring

— Join Magnetic Habits Bingo 101 Challenge (begins on April 13, 2026) with 20% off! (Code:

SQUIRREL20)

— Her walkout song

BTL LINKS

— Use code "MILLIONAIRE" for $100 off my website copywriting course, Site Series Sprint.

— Join the Point of the Story community on Slack.

— Leave feedback or episode requests in our Suggestions Box.

— To stay up to date with all things Point of the Story, follow on Instagram and Substack.

— Follow me on Instagram, Threads, and Substack.

— Subscribe to my newsletter Tuesday Table of Contents for one marketing tip, once a week.

— Check out my website betweenthelinescopy.com.

OTHER LINKS

— Sauz

— Past podcast eps: How to Get a Fucking Grip and How To Have A Balanced, Burnout-Free Year: 7 Themed Days To Add To Your Calendar

— Melissa McCracken (synesthetic artist)

— Spacies pads

This episode was edited by Adrienne Cruz.

Mentioned in this episode:

For $31/mo, get FIVE personal story prompts a month for your newsletter!

Sara's Swipe File: A Newsletter Storytelling Subscription

1 in 6 people experience significant disability. That's potentially 16% of your audience who literally cannot interact with your inaccessible website — even if they want to.

Let that sink in for a second!

I sit down with Chloe Arielle, brand + web designer and the person who's been loudest on Threads about something the design world isn't talking about nearly enough: digital accessibility. This conversation made me want to go audit my entire website immediately. (Like mid-recording!) She's the kind of person who says something so casually that hits you like a truck, and suddenly you're realizing that the cute design choices you've been making for years might be shutting people out without you ever knowing it.

Very few people in this space are talking about digital accessibility the way Chloe is — loudly, clearly, and without making you feel like an idiot for not already knowing.

Which, for the record, you're not. We were never taught this stuff, but we're learning it now!

TOPICS & TANGENTS

— Color contrast 101: what it is, why your brand colors might be failing the test, and the easiest fix

— Alt text vs. image descriptions

— Why putting copy inside an image is a crime against your own website

— The Flodesk layout situation nobody told you about

— Centered text: when it's fine and when it's a problem

— All caps: same deal

— The free browser extension that will audit your whole site for accessibility issues

POINT OF THE STORY

The people who can't access your site aren't a niche. They're 1 in 6. They want to read your content, click your links, and buy your stuff, and a few small changes are all that stand between you and actually letting them in.

Love you, mean it. 🖤

CHLOE LINKS

— Follow Chloe on Instagram and Threads

— Check out her gorgeous AND accessible website

— Tune in to her podcast Brand Jam

— Grab her free Accessibility Checklist!

— Her walkout song

BTL LINKS

— Use code "MILLIONAIRE" for $100 off my website copywriting course, Site Series Sprint.

— Join the Point of the Story community on Slack.

— Leave feedback or episode requests in our Suggestions Box.

— To stay up to date with all things Point of the Story, follow on Instagram and Substack.

— Follow me on Instagram, Threads, and Substack.

— Subscribe to my newsletter Tuesday Table of Contents for one marketing tip, once a week.

— Check out my website betweenthelinescopy.com.

OTHER LINKS

— “Which website builder ranks best in accessibility?” by Squarestylist

OTHER LINKS

— “Which website builder ranks best in accessibility?” by Squarestylist

— Axe Devtools

— Pika

— Web AIM color contrast checker

— Figma - plugin

— Chrome extension

This episode was edited by Adrienne Cruz.

Mentioned in this episode:

For $31/mo, get FIVE personal story prompts a month for your newsletter!

Sara's Swipe File: A Newsletter Storytelling Subscription

I have a Swedish mother and grandmother, and I still didn’t know there's a Swedish 12-hour cinnamon roll recipe I've been completely sleeping on my entire life.

I also had no idea what human design was.

Both of these things got fixed in this episode by our guest Keolani Young, a human design guide and mentor for business owners, creators, executives, and public figures — basically anyone who's ever felt like they're working really hard and getting nowhere, or like something is off but they can't quite name it.

She’s spent years pulling charts, taking notes, and gathering data on hundreds of people to help her clients understand themselves in a way that no generic personality quiz ever could.

She's also the reason I now know I'm a 1-3 sacral generator — which honestly explains a lot.

(I’m now desperate to look up Side Character's chart, even though he probably doesn’t care about human design. I care enough for both of us!!!)

TOPICS & TANGENTS

— The five human design types: manifestors, generators, manifesting generators, projectors, and reflectors

— Famous examples for each type (Oprah, Frida Kahlo, Beyoncé, Barack Obama, Sandra Bullock)

— The six profile lines and what they say about how you move through the world

— Me wondering what Queen Latifah’s human design is

— How to start using your human design in business this week

— The walkout song vs. funeral song mix-up that still makes me laugh alone in my car

POINT OF THE STORY

You need to understand how you are wired and then have the audacity to actually operate that way.

Love you, mean it. 🖤

KEOLANI LINKS

— Follow Keolani on Instagram, Threads, and TikTok

— Check out her website

— Get your free advanced Human Design chart

— Save $25 on a 1:1 reading: Legacy Human Design Reading

— Listen to her podcast, Great Measure Podcast

— Keolani’s walkout song

BTL LINKS

— Use code "MILLIONAIRE" for $100 off my website copywriting course, Site Series Sprint.

— Join the Point of the Story community on Slack.

— Leave feedback or episode requests in our Suggestions Box.

— To stay up to date with all things Point of the Story, follow on Instagram and Substack.

— Follow me on Instagram, Threads, and Substack.

— Subscribe to my newsletter Tuesday Table of Contents for one marketing tip, once a week.

— Check out my website betweenthelinescopy.com.

OTHER LINKS

— Follow Broma Bakery

— Sara’s episode on Keolani’s podcast

This episode was edited by Adrienne Cruz.

Mentioned in this episode:

For $31/mo, get FIVE personal story prompts a month for your newsletter!

Sara's Swipe File: A Newsletter Storytelling Subscription