Tommie Runz started running in 2018, a year after choosing sobriety, and began documenting the journey simply because it felt good to share progress and get encouragement. Seven years later, he's built an audience of over 30,000 through nothing but consistency and honesty — no viral moments, no big follower jumps, just a steady climb built entirely on trust.

In this conversation, Tommie and Aaron pick up where they left off after a live panel at TrailCon, digging into what it actually looks like to build a career as an athlete-creator without compromising who you are. Tommie breaks down why he's turned down "ambassador" deals that undervalue creators, how relationships with brands often take years rather than emails to develop, and the moment he realized his content needed to sound exactly like him or it wasn't worth doing at all.

Second Nature is supported by Popfly:

Popfly for Creators: https://popf.ly/secondnaturecreators

Popfly for Brands: https://popf.ly/secondnaturebrands

Show Notes:

Tommie Runz: https://www.tommierunz.com/

Tommie on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/Tommie_Runz

Tommie on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Tommie_Runz

PR Project (Podcast): https://www.youtube.com/c/PRProject/videos

Asics: https://www.asics.com/

Mack Baker (Asics): https://www.linkedin.com/in/mack-baker-b6218717/

Cosign Creatives: https://cosignmag.com/cosign-creative-agency/

Tommie Runz Show (Podcast): https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-tommie-runz-show/id1538233660

Broken Arrow: https://www.brokenarrowskyrace.com/

Tommie on Freetrail: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7lJd4t12a8

TrailCon: https://www.trailconference.com

BPC - Brand, Product, Content:

Currently: https://currentlyrunning.com/

Best Running Podcasts: https://bestrunningpodcasts.com/

Precision Fuel & Hydration: https://www.precisionhydration.com/

Aaronnomics: https://www.instagram.com/aaronnomics/

Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media

Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature

Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media

Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

Steve Holmberg and Matt Trappe are back for a debrief on one of the biggest weeks in trail running — Broken Arrow, Western States, and everything in between at TrailCon. Steve breaks down his state-of-the-industry analysis: why trail running's rebrand from "ultra running" unlocked massive new participation, why the sport is about to fragment the way mountain biking did decades ago, and why brands chasing "max" specs are about to pivot to "right" specs built specifically for trail.

Then Matt takes listeners inside a project few people got to experience firsthand — a house in Tahoe built with Skratch and other partners, designed to bring brand leaders, athletes, and creators together without competitive walls. He explains the intention behind it, what happened when 37 of 40 people in the room spoke up during an unscripted conversation, and why some of the best moments of the week happened specifically because they weren't being recorded.

Show Notes:

Popfly for Brands: https://popf.ly/secondnaturebrands

Popfly for Creators: https://popf.ly/secondnaturecreators

Steve Holmberg: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenholmberg/

Matt Trappe: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-trappe/

Insight Accelerator: https://insight-accelerator.com/

Matter of Brand: https://amatterofbrand.substack.com/

TrailCon: https://www.trailconference.com

Tommie Runz: https://www.instagram.com/tommie_runz/

Salomon TV - Trail Dogs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05sUhlxFBk0

Salomon TV - Bill Dooper: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OF8ZdwpnTLQ

WSJ on Trail Runners: https://www.wsj.com/style/fashion/trail-running-footwear-9d39a2c6

Broken Arrow: https://www.brokenarrowskyrace.com/

ACG: https://www.nike.com/acg

Freetrail: https://www.freetrail.com

Tantrums: https://tantrums.run/

Amazfit: https://us.amazfit.com/

Skratch: https://www.skratchlabs.com/

SF Run Co: https://store.sfrunco.com/

BPC - Brand, Product, Content:

Hilary Yang "Raise The Bar": https://www.thehilaryann.com/raise-the-bar

Marin Rift Zone EL XR: https://marinbikes.com/products/2025-rift-zone-el-xr-int

Golden Hour Racing Shirt: https://auteursportif.com/collections/golden-hour-racing-capsule

Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media

Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature

Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media

Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

Matt Oesterle built his first company, Callisto Media, from zero to $85 million in revenue by using data to disrupt the book publishing industry. Then he sold it to Penguin Random House and asked himself: what's the next industry that hasn't been forced to evolve? The answer was camping — an industry whose biggest brands were founded in the 1960s and haven't changed much since.

In this conversation, Matt walks through the framework he uses to pick businesses, how he designed the Ramble campground experience from scratch, and what it takes to build a hospitality brand that maintains a 4.98-star review score while scaling to 100+ locations. He also gets into the role of data versus instinct in entrepreneurship, why type two fun is a hiring requirement for his team, and why you don't have to be a sociopath to build something great.

If you've ever looked at an industry and thought "someone should fix this" — this is the episode for you.

Show Notes:

Popfly for Brands: https://popf.ly/secondnaturebrands

Popfly for Athletes: https://popf.ly/secondnaturecreators

Matt Oesterle: https://www.linkedin.com/in/oesterle/

Ramble Campgrounds: https://ramble.camp/

Next Ventures: https://www.nextventures.com/

Mel Strong on Second Nature: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlcjUzrM3Jg

Callisto Media: https://www.sourcebooks.com/callisto

HipCamp: https://www.hipcamp.com/

Net Promoter Score (Term): https://www.qualtrics.com/articles/customer-experience/net-promoter-score/

Solo Stove: https://www.solostove.com/

Zendesk: https://www.zendesk.com/

The Everything Store (Book): https://amzn.to/4vpM8kx

BPC - Brand, Product, Content:

RAB: https://rab.equipment/

The Algorithm (Book): https://amzn.to/4aOzKTJ

MFM Pod - The Algorithm Author: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GG4TwQEYdBY

New Yorker Profile - Sam Altman: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2026/04/13/sam-altman-may-control-our-future-can-he-be-trusted

***

Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media

Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature

Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media

Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

Martyn Ashton spent two decades as one of the most influential trials riders in the world — making the smallest, most niche discipline of mountain biking accessible and exciting for a global audience through videos, shows, and a personality that made everyone feel like they could try it. In 2013, a crash during a stunt show left him paralyzed. Now he's doing the exact same thing all over again — this time for adaptive mountain biking.

In this conversation, Martyn walks through the founding of Rideable Now, a not-for-profit organization dedicated to helping people with disabilities and life-changing injuries access adaptive mountain bikes. He explains why modern adaptive bikes aren't a watered-down version of mountain biking — they're genuinely terrifying, capable machines that unlock every trail in the world for people who never thought they'd ride again. He also gets into the economics of £25,000 bikes, why the e-bike power race could go too far, and the moment he gave away Rideable Now's first complete bike to a father of three who had no idea it was coming.

Show Notes:

Popfly for Brands: https://popf.ly/secondnaturebrands

Popfly for Athletes: https://popf.ly/secondnaturecreators

Martyn Ashton: https://www.instagram.com/martynashton/

Rideable Now: https://www.rideablenow.com/

Bowhead Bikes: https://www.bowheadcorp.com/

Cole Bernier: https://www.instagram.com/cbreezyrides/

Annijke Wade: https://www.instagram.com/geodesicdome/

Random Tandem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onoeq45G6ec

Dirty Tricks and Cunning Stunts: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rd3n8-0tuHU

GMBN: https://www.gmbn.com/

Rideable Now Membership: https://www.rideablenow.com/join

Disabled Dad Of Three: https://www.instagram.com/disableddadof3/

High Fives Foundation: https://highfivesfoundation.org/

BPC - Brand, Product, Content

Topeak Digital Tire Pump: https://backcountrycreator.tnu8.net/DWBMvq

Stashed Spacerail (10% discount link): https://www.stashedproducts.com/superrider

***

Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media

Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature

Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media

Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

Ross McGraw has had one of the more interesting career arcs in the outdoor industry — from Nike's NYC Run program to Vice Media and Viacom, to helping build Hammerhead through its acquisition by SRAM, and now leading commercial efforts at CORE, the company changing how elite athletes think about heat.

In this conversation, Ross breaks down the science of heat training in plain language — why 80% of the energy athletes generate is thermal, how heat zones work, and why the world's best cyclists and runners are training in heat suits before major races. He also gets into what it felt like to go from being a cog in a media machine to betting on himself in sports tech, why triathlon taught him more about business than any corporate job, and how to know when you're doing the "social run" version of your career.

Show Notes:

Popfly for Brands: https://popf.ly/secondnaturebrands

Popfly for Athletes/Creators: https://popf.ly/secondnaturecreators

Ross McGraw: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rossmcgraw/

CORE: https://corebodytemp.com/

CORE Heat Suit: https://corebodytemp.com/products/core-suit

CORE Heat Zones: https://help.corebodytemp.com/en/articles/10447111-heat-zones

Hammerhead: https://shop.sram.com/pages/hammerhead

Zwift Bike: https://us.zwift.com/collections/equipment/products/zwift-ride-smart-frame

Wahoo Software Update: https://www.bikeradar.com/news/wahoo-elemnt-firmware-update-2026

BPC - Brand, Product, Content:

World Cup - Adidas ad: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJJY53qhJe0

Breathe (Book): https://amzn.to/4eBoX0f

Respire Mouth Tape: https://respire.com/

Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media

Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature

Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media

Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

Mattie Sims has built brands at Lululemon, Electronic Arts, Reef, and Rally Pickleball — and along the way developed a framework for brand building that most founders skip entirely. Now she's applying everything she's learned to two ventures at once: Courier, a performance sock brand built around the idea of the "Renaissance athlete," and Mate the Agency, a brand strategy firm working with founders across industries.

In this conversation, Mattie walks through the muse framework she learned at Lululemon and has refined across every role since — why the most important question isn't "who buys this product" but "what is this person worried about when their head hits the pillow at night." She also gets into why looking branded is not the same as having a brand, what happened when Rally discovered their customers weren't there for pickleball, and why having her son was the thing that finally convinced her she could be an entrepreneur.

Plus: why niching down is the thing every founder is most afraid of, how Courier is building a cultural movement around versatile excellence, and the Red Bull receptionist whose casual suggestion became a billion-dollar product strategy.

Popfly For Creators: https://popf.ly/secondnaturecreators

Popfly for Brands: https://popf.ly/secondnaturebrands

Show Notes:

Mattie Sims: https://www.linkedin.com/in/madeline-sims-83385823/

Courier Socks: http://couriersocks.com/

Mate The Agency: https://www.matetheagency.com/

Rally Pickleball: https://www.rallypickleball.com/

Mate IG Carousel Link: https://www.instagram.com/p/DYW4_SVEU8b/

Carrie Rheaume (Mate agency co-founder): https://www.linkedin.com/in/carrie-rheaume-6376521a8/

Matt Sims: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthew-sims-9b716450/

Gartner Hype Cycle: https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnwerner/2024/07/18/the-trough-of-disillusionment-and-four-outliers-on-the-gartner-hype-cycle/

Morgan Tuohy: https://www.linkedin.com/in/morgan-tuohy/

Dera: https://rundera.com/

Ryan Thrower: https://www.instagram.com/ryanthrower/

BPC - Brand, Product, Content:

Seniq: https://seniqbrand.com/

Summer Edition - Red Bull: https://www.redbull.com/us-en/energydrink/products/red-bull-summer-edition

Billy Oppenheimer's newsletter: https://billyoppenheimer.com/

Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media

Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature

Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media

Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

Tom Austen is the founder of Pelotan, the world's first sun performance brand, and co-founder of Chance, a trail running apparel brand he's building with pro athlete and serial entrepreneur Christian Meier. Both brands are based in Girona, Spain — a two-square-kilometer pocket of world-class endurance athletes, cafes, and startups that's become the Boulder of Europe.

In this conversation, Tom walks through how Pelotan went from a sunburn problem on training rides to winning two Tour de Frances with Team Sky in its first year, and how the brand is now pioneering something entirely new: treating the sun as a performance variable rather than just a health risk. He also gets into the Chance origin story, why cross-pollination across categories is the key to building something original, and what it's like to run two high-growth startups at the same time from a city of 100,000 people.

Show Notes:

Popfly for Athletes/Creators: https://popf.ly/secondnaturecreators

Popfly for Brands: https://popf.ly/secondnaturebrands

Tom Austen: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tomausten1/

Pelotan: https://pelotan.cc/

Chance Running: https://chancerunning.com/

Second Nature - Sea Otter Episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLk1LGIthPc

Christian Meier: https://www.instagram.com/christianmmeier/

The Gartner Hype Cycle: https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnwerner/2024/07/18/the-trough-of-disillusionment-and-four-outliers-on-the-gartner-hype-cycle/

Pelotan Apres Aftersun: https://pelotan.cc/products/pelotan-apres-200ml

Pelotan App for Second Nature listeners: https://pelotan.cc/secondnature

Broken Arrow Skyrace: https://www.brokenarrowskyrace.com/

Lael Wilcox: https://www.instagram.com/laelwilcox/

BPC - Brand, Product, Content:

Nomio: https://drinknomio.com/

Adidas World Cup ad: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJJY53qhJe0

Nike - Airport soccer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGalnbiGDW4

Insta360 GO Ultra: https://store.insta360.com/product/go-ultra

Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media

Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature

Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media

Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

Bill Shufelt was a hedge fund analyst who didn't drink, couldn't find a non-alcoholic beer worth ordering, and one night his wife spun him around on a sidewalk and told him to do something about it. Eight years later, Athletic Brewing has 300 employees, four breweries, over a million barrels of capacity, and has almost single-handedly turned non-alcoholic beer from a stigmatized afterthought into 20% of all beer at Whole Foods.

In this conversation, Bill walks through the full journey: the two years of research before he quit his job, the valley of darkness where no brewery, distributor, or investor would take his calls, finding his co-founder John Walker through a brewing forum post (with the words "non-alcoholic" deliberately removed), and the grassroots field marketing strategy that built the brand one race, one taproom, and one six-pack at a time. He also gets into the competitive explosion that followed, why he views 200 brands entering his category as a positive, and what it's like to redefine success once the business reaches cruising altitude.

If you've ever looked at a category and thought "why hasn't anyone fixed this yet", this is the episode that shows you what happens when someone actually does.

Show Notes:

Popfly For Brands

Popfly For Creators

Bill Shufelt on LinkedIn

Athletic Brewing

John Walker on LinkedIn

1000 True Fans (Article)

Do Things That Don't Scale (Article)

Two For The Trails

What It Takes (Book)

The Obstacle Is The Way (Book)

BPC - Brand, Product, Content:

Dirt - Ireland

Gramicci

Hopa Hopa Climbing Wall

Kawa

Raide Research - LF 5L Vest

The Modern Substitute

Kids Ride Shotgun

Connect With Us:

Join us on LinkedIn

Meet us on Slack

Follow us on Instagram

Subscribe to our Newsletter

Subscribe to our YouTube Channel

Morgan Tuohy is seven days into the launch of Dera, a trail running belt brand built around a BOA-style dial closure that nobody's tried before in the category. He sold out of two sizes in under eight hours, shipped hundreds of belts from his living room until 3 AM, and had $500 left in his bank account two days before launch. He's 27 years old.

In this conversation, Morgan walks through the full founder journey — from stitching prototypes in his attic with fabric from old running shoes, to convincing one of Osprey's largest factories to take a chance on him, to the moment Tim Tollefson told him he wasn't allowed to NOT do this. He also talks openly about his first failed brand, why he set three rules for himself this time around ("I know nothing, everyone else knows everything, and they all want to help"), and how seven members of the Second Nature Slack channel played a direct role in getting Dera off the ground.

This is a brand launch captured in real time — and a reminder that sometimes the best businesses start with a sewing machine in an attic and the willingness to ask for help.

Show Notes:

Popfly for Brands: https://popf.ly/secondnaturebrands

Popfly for Athletes/Creators: https://popf.ly/secondnaturecreators

Morgan Tuohy: https://www.linkedin.com/in/morgan-tuohy/

Dera: https://rundera.com/

Tim Tollefson: https://www.instagram.com/timtollefson/

Our IP Attorney, Ian Gates: https://krdglaw.com/staff/ian-gates/

Kitworks: http://www.kitworks.com

Second Nature Slack Channel: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature

Cade Michael: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cade-michael-mba-914411152/

Clara Froeschner: https://www.linkedin.com/in/clarafroeschner/

Tim Nooney: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tim-nooney-0a3bbaa6/

Courier Socks: https://couriersocks.com/

Claude: https://www.claude.ai

Mammoth Trailfest: https://www.mammothtrailfest.com/

BPC - Brand, Product, Content:

Goodles: https://www.goodles.com/

Dexa Scan: https://dexascan.com/

Kiprun - Kipsummit Max: https://www.kiprun.com/en-US/product/kipsummit-max-men-s-max-cushion-trail-running-shoes_362206--c153c385m9001281

Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media

Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature

Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media

Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

Steve Holmberg is one of our favorite recurring guests, and this time, he showed up with something nobody expected. Over the holidays, Steve went from zero coding experience to a fully functional AI-powered app called Field Check, built using the vibe coding platform Lovable. The app connects retail store associates directly to brand product and marketing teams through AI-driven chats that go deeper than any survey can — and he built the whole thing in about a month.

In this conversation, Steve walks through exactly how he did it, what he wishes he'd known before starting, and why AI is "a tool masquerading as a solution." He also deployed Field Check live on the Second Nature Slack channel to surface what the audience actually wants — and the results are fascinating.

Plus: a halftime check-in on Second Nature's 2026 predictions, what happened at Sea Otter with Chinese bike brands, why Adidas is having a moment, and the 32-inch wheel debate that nobody asked for.

Show Notes:

• Popfly for Creators: https://popf.ly/secondnaturecreators
• Popfly for Brands: https://popf.ly/secondnaturebrands
• Steve Holmberg: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenholmberg/
• Insight Accelerator: https://insight-accelerator.com/
• Lovable: https://lovable.dev/
• Field Check: https://fieldcheck.app/
• Supabase: https://supabase.com/
• Cloudflare: https://www.cloudflare.com/
• Github: https://www.github.com
• 2026 Predictions Episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0G3OpDVnyA
• Steve's Prediction Post: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/stephenholmberg_2026-sport-and-outdoor-industry-trends-activity-7414293417557626880-AXy7
• Trailcon: https://www.trailconference.com

• Jason Fried - David Senra Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdDCtMA1gSw
• Adventure Bucket List: https://reachinternationaloutfitters.com/collections/state-bucket-lists

Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media

Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature

Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media

Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia