After the recent discussion about Outside, we realized that we had more to say - and more appropriately, a more constructive discussion about how we would look at the situation and handle it if it were up to us. It's a back-and-forth about open versus closed content ecosystems - as well as a callback to a favorite Galaxy Brain idea that we've been kicking around.

Escape Collective Article: https://escapecollective.com/theres-a-wildfire-outside/

PinkBike: https://pinkbike.com

ReconMTB: https://reconmtb.com

Billy Oppenheimer Newsletter: https://billyoppenheimer.com/newsletter/

Smart Magic: https://www.smartmagic.com/

Barbarian Days (Book): https://amzn.to/43okhXr

Brand, Product, Content (BPC):

Not A Playbook (Book): https://www.fupe.wtf/projects/not-a-playbook

Brand New Story: https://brandnewstory.substack.com/p/31-writing-a-brands-story

Chianti Race Recap: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUVO1JXPGnk

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Max Lenk joined X-Bionic three years ago as the established brand was transitioning into its next phase. Or as Max calls it: "the re-startup". Max and the X-Bionic team have brought meaningful evolution to the brand, most recently launching a footwear category with their Terraskin trail running shoes.

Max Lenk: https://www.linkedin.com/in/maximilian-lenk-1abba4152/

X-Bionic: https://www.x-bionic.com/

Sam Altman - Focus and Intensity: https://article.voxsnap.com/ycombinator/focus

X-Bionic Terraskin: https://www.x-bionic.com/en-us/collections/trail-running/products/x-bionic-terraskin-x00-c

ISPO Award: https://www.ispo.com/en/promotion/ispo-award-winner-x-bionic-terraskin-x00-c

Sebastian Steudtner (Surfer): https://www.instagram.com/xbionic/reel/C58eqJRIyzy/

Brand, Product, Content (BPC):

Marco Odermatt: https://www.instagram.com/marcoodermatt/

Deity Dark Room: https://www.deitycomponents.com/

Portal Brand: https://portal-brand.com

Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media

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Payson McElveen is a professional mountain biker, gravel racer and podcaster - host of With Pace (previously known as The Adventure Stache). During this discussion, Payson shares his approach to business as an athlete and podcaster, comparing notes on his journey as a media operator in the outdoor industry with Dylan and Aaron.

Show Notes:

Payson McElveen: https://www.instagram.com/paysonmcelveen/

Payson's Podcast: https://open.spotify.com/show/2DJhVL3faEez1BvoaqVGRc?si=086c240f0acb4b84

Payson - Crossing Iceland: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgY3peQIzNA

Osprey: https://www.osprey.com/

Sasha DiGiulian: https://www.instagram.com/sashadigiulian/

Lifetime Gravel: https://www.lifetimegrandprix.com/

Broc Raiford: https://www.instagram.com/brocraiford/

Brand, Product, Content:

Sahara Gravel Race: https://www.instagram.com/sahara_gravel/

The Five Year Journal: https://amzn.to/41rFsVJ

Anton's Journals: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQo_qSuwv28

Telepathy Tapes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-telepathy-tapes/id1766382649

Five Ten BOA Shoes: http://jenson.sjv.io/55nmNb

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Nathan Helming co-founded The Run Experience during the early days of YouTube, when ideas like the creator economy - or even the monetization of content - were part of the equation. Nathan and his team built the channel, coaching, subscription and membership platform for nearly eight years before moving to an acquisition. In today's discussion, Nathan shares the entire lifecycle of the business, from beginning to end.

Nathan Helming: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nathan-helming/

The Run Experience: https://www.youtube.com/therunexperience

Kelly Starrett: https://www.youtube.com/@TheReadyState

Sage Canaday: https://www.youtube.com/@Vo2maxProductions

Ginger Runner: https://www.youtube.com/@TheGingerRunner

Casey Neistat - Digital Spaghetti: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exk8GrGwxGs

Patrick Crawford Article: https://zerodraft.substack.com/p/creators-are-the-new-founders

Runna: https://www.runna.com/

The True Cost Of YouTube: https://substack.com/home/post/p-156691960

Nick Bare: https://www.youtube.com/@nickbarefitness

Brand, Product, Content:

Chris Voss - Never Split The Difference: https://amzn.to/3DrBS63

Skratch Grape: https://www.skratchlabs.com/products/energy-chews-sport-fuel?variant=41509663211591

Jonathan Levitt Pod: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/brand-vs-performance-marketing/id1737242598?i=1000673992404

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Second Nature turns 1 year old on March 22, 2025 and a lot has happened in the outdoor industry during that time. Two specific topics came up this past week, and we wanted to take some time to discuss the impact on the industry: OnlyFans supporting athletes and Outside's latest news cycle. An interesting time for the outdoor industry, to say the least.

Show Notes:

Big Alta: https://www.daybreakracing.com/big-alta-50k

Sabrina Stanley: https://www.instagram.com/sabrinaleannstanley/

Escape Collective Article: https://escapecollective.com/theres-a-wildfire-outside/

Ikigai (Book): https://amzn.to/4hgIgeq

Brand, Product, Content:

Eric's Film (Trailer): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avuV-EKwQz8

Anton x La Sportiva: https://www.instagram.com/p/DHEAYSPOu_j/

Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media

Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature

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Jake Thomas is the wizard at one of the most important, but also most commonly overlooked skills in brand building. He writes the Creator Hooks newsletter and founded Creator Hooks Pro, a software service that helps brands and creators tackle impactful copywriting. His primary focus is YouTube titles - but that same skill set applies to all forms of writing where capturing attention is the primary objective.

Show Notes:

Jake Thomas: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jake-thomas-creator-hooks/

Creator Hooks: https://creatorhooks.com/

Creator Hooks Pro: https://pro.creatorhooks.com/

Salt Strong: https://www.youtube.com/user/saltstrong

Jake's Think Media Interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zU-xcCGCNQ4

Brand, Product, Content:

Age of Propaganda: https://amzn.to/4inawNf

Cashvertising: https://amzn.to/4inawNf

Pre-suasion: https://amzn.to/43tKqE2

The Adweek Copywriting Handbook: https://amzn.to/4bq0jgY

The Five Year Journal: https://amzn.to/41rFsVJ

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Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature

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Kate Courtney entered a new era when she launched her own race team to bring visibility to her foundation, She Sends. In this podcast, we dig into the previous eras that led up to this one - starting with her entry into the sport of mountain biking, her life-changing world championship win, and the behind the scenes effort that has gotten her to this stage of her career.

Show Notes:

Kate Courtney: https://instagram.com/kateplusfate

She Sends Foundation: https://shesends.it

The Growth Equation: https://thegrowtheq.com/farewell-podcast/

The Obstacle Is The Way: https://amzn.to/3QGR4Q1

The Second Mountain: https://amzn.to/4iq1EXf

The Art Of Possibility: https://amzn.to/4ilVSpC

Brand, Product, Content:

Lachlan Morton - In One Day: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJlFYPCKqNM

Dungeon Crawler Carl (Book): https://amzn.to/4kt9jpx

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Elisa Schaller is the North American Director of Brand/Product of Outdoor at adidas. She has been with the brand through many iterations - both overseas and domestically - for over a decade. In addition to the brand story, we get a closer look behind-the-scenes of Terrex, her team, and her career.

Show Notes:

Elisa Schaller: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elisa-schaller/

adidas Terrex: https://www.adidas.com/us/men-trail_running-shoes

Five Ten: https://www.adidas.com/us/five_ten

Freehiker Shoe: https://www.adidas.com/us/free_hiker

Danny MacAskill on campus: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70NBZV6z_o0

Brand, Product, Content:

Rebecca Rusch - What's The Rusch Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/whats-the-rusch/id1795769843

Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media

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TrailCon is returning to Tahoe again this year, and with it, some big updates for the event's second year. First, a major partnership announcement, followed by insight and expectations for the two day event (including Dylan, Aaron and Steve's roles in it).

TrailCon: https://trailconference.com/

Consumer Insights Pod with Steve: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYc_b60sejc

Zero Draft Article: https://zerodraft.substack.com/p/creators-are-the-new-founders

Slow Ventures Creator Fund: https://creatorfund.co/

Nat Eliason: https://x.com/nateliason

Fast Cash vs Slow Equity: https://blog.nateliason.com/p/fast-cash-slow-equity

Colin + Samir - Jack Conte: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNYw32X-WAU

Job Of The Week - Raide: https://raideresearch.com/pages/jobs

Brand, Product, Content:

Bergeon Outdoor: https://www.burgeonoutdoor.com/

The Kona Brand: https://www.thekonabrand.com/

David Bar: https://amzn.to/4koU5SA

Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media

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Steve Holmberg spent nearly two decades helping Nike stay competitive by driving innovation through market research and consumer insights. He believes every discussion for a brand should start with the consumer in mind, and shares not only his insights - but the single phrase that helped set up those conversations to drive the brand forward. He now runs Insight Accelerator, giving more brands and people access to his unique window to innovation and competition. This episode is an absolute masterclass for harnessing consumer insights to drive results for brands and businesses at every stage of development.

Show Notes:

Steve Holmberg: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenholmberg/

Insight Accelerator: https://www.stephenholmberg.com/

Steve's Substack: https://steveholmberg.substack.com/

Performance Marketing 101: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4GWhpYsx48

Hero's Journey: https://www.jcf.org/learn/joseph-campbell-heros-journey

Breaking 2: https://www.nike.com/running/breaking2/

Soft Wins - On: https://www.on.com/en-us/explore/soft-wins

Petzl GriGri: https://www.petzl.com/US/en/Sport/Belay-Devices-And-Descenders/GRIGRI

How I Built This: https://www.npr.org/series/490248027/how-i-built-this

BPC - Brand, Product, Content:

Brandon Semenuk "La La Land": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULEFPfRkVVY

Half Days Brand: https://www.halfdays.com/

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