Second Nature

150 episodes. Two years. No shortage of stuff happening.

On this milestone bro pod, we take stock of where Second Nature has been — and where things are heading. Digging into what's actually changed in 2026: what we've removed, working with an executive coach, launching a live weekly show, and opening the first mountain bike retail store in Shenzhen, China. Plus a real conversation about the grind before the momentum, why the irons are finally heating up, and what it feels like when years of consistent work starts clicking into place.

Show Notes:

Popfly for Brands: https://www.popfly.com?growsurf_campaign=jpeg2o&grsf=x4d7gg

Popfly for Creators: https://www.popfly.com/creators?growsurf_campaign=wovvt7&grsf=3jh7ss

Second Nature's Catalog: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia/videos

Dustin Klein Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VM0r0_R-cfk

Matt Lloyd-Thomas on SN: https://youtu.be/UFukxaniLMI

Christian Rawles on SN: https://youtu.be/EVPKsO0O8us

Christian Rawles: https://www.christianrawles.com/

Enneagram: https://www.eclecticenergies.com/enneagram/test

Super Rider: https://www.youtube.com/@superRiderTV

Freetrail Rest Day: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-freetrail-podcast-with-dylan-bowman/id1492327668

Trailcon: https://www.trailconference.com

Outside Interactive Revenue: https://www.adweek.com/media/outside-interactive-profit-transformation/

The Rebooting - Outside: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/inside-outsides-media-as-flywheel-strategy/id1595625177?i=1000755772587

BPC - Brand, Product, Content:

Thinking In Bets (Book): https://amzn.to/3QnzUK1

Speedland RXLDVL: https://www.runspeedland.com/products/rx-ldvl

Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media

Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature

Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media

Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

Floris Gierman has it all: he's an author, content creator, co-founder of a running apparel brand, and so much more. His approach in hindsight seems methodical and measured in its approach, but the truth is that this all came around from years of consistent, small steps. In this episode, we dig into the day-to-day as well as the big picture of Floris Gierman's world.

This episode is supported by Popfly, a platform that connects brands with outdoor, adventure and travel creators for campaigns. Support this podcast by using these links to check out the platform:

Get a personalized Brand demo: https://popfly.com?grsf=x4d7gg

Get set up as a Creator: https://www.popfly.com/creators?growsurf_campaign=wovvt7&grsf=3jh7ss

Show Notes:

Floris Gierman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/florisgierman/

Path Projects: https://pathprojects.com/

Floris on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@FlorisGierman

Flo's First Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CAxzM2mkrc

Extramilest Podcast: https://extramilest.com/

Personal Best Running Club: https://www.skool.com/personalbest/about

Scott Bailey: https://www.linkedin.com/in/scott-bailey-0bb22b28/

Geoff Rowley: https://www.instagram.com/geoffrowley/

Running Breakthroughs (Book): https://amzn.to/4sNFEeC

Ryan Hall: https://www.instagram.com/ryanhall3/

Believe In The Run: https://believeintherun.com/

Kilian on Extramilest: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJZO-t6O5Bk

BPC - Brand, Product, Content

Manors Golf: https://manorsgolf.com/

KetoneIQ: https://ketone.com/Freetrail30

Path Projects Base Liner: https://pathprojects.com/collections/base-liners

The Way Of Excellence (Book): https://amzn.to/4sNFEeC

Path Projects Basis Tee: https://pathprojects.com/collections/short-sleeves-and-tanks/products/basis-tee

Backcountry Slickrock Kit: https://app.popfly.com/@superridertv/storefront

Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media

Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature

Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media

Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

The Evolution of Brands, Athletes and Creators

If there's one thing for certain, it's that nothing ever stays the same - doubly so if you're a brand in the outdoor space or an athlete or creator. Over the past year, we've had so many discussions about what's working, the right way to approach it, and how it has evolved.

Jonathan Levitt: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jlevitt815/

Small Shows Hit Different: https://substack.com/@longrunlabs/p-190439642

Hollow Socks: https://hollowsocks.com/

Hollow Socks on Second Nature: https://youtu.be/qri10TgoOMM

Jonathan's Previous SN episode: https://youtu.be/fYEjPke9Btg

Brand Partnership 101 Article: https://substack.com/home/post/p-170877180

Substack Podcasts: https://on.substack.com/p/introducing-the-substack-recording

Colleen Quigley: https://www.instagram.com/steeple_squigs/

Kitworks: https://alnk.to/hsyF2FO

Claude: https://claude.ai/

Eternal: https://www.eternal.co

Alex Mather on Second Nature

The Huddle: https://findmyhuddle.com/

Second Nature Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature

BPC - Brand, Product, Content:

Raziq Rauf "This Is Running" (Book): https://amzn.to/3PteKKk

Seth LaRue Trail Waves: https://trailwaves.substack.com/

Wahoo Kickr: https://amzn.to/4bAgDgY

Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media

Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature

Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media

Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

Recently, two long-standing outdoor industry businesses, Alpenglow Expeditions and Thomson Bike Tours, were acquired by Milky Way Park. But while acquisitions are nothing new to the outdoor industry, the way it came together (and continues to develop) is worth a closer look. On this episode, iconic athlete and Alpenglow founder Adrian Ballinger joins Milky Way Park's founder Matthew Lloyd-Thomas to share the story.

Show Notes:

Adrian Ballinger: https://www.instagram.com/adrianballinger/

Alpenglow Expeditions: https://alpenglowexpeditions.com/

Matthew Lloyd-Thomas: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthew-lloyd-thomas-541a9614/

Milky Way Park: https://www.milkywaypark.com/

Chernin Group: https://tcg.co/

Unrivaled Sports: https://www.unrivaledsports.com/

Emily Harrington: https://www.instagram.com/emilyaharrington/

Thomson Bike Tours: https://www.thomsonbiketours.com/

Aiden Charles (Coach): https://www.charlescoaching.com/coaches/

The Duffel Shuffle Podcast: https://www.duffelshufflepodcast.com/

DangerStik: https://www.youtube.com/@DangerStikTV

Mt Everest Ski Project: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjZvFY6__qw

Centium AI: https://www.centium.ai/

BPC - Brand, Product, Content

Luft Bike Shop: https://luftlosangeles.com/

Zipp 404 Wheels: https://www.sram.com/en/zipp/models/wh-404-ftld-b1

Keith McNally "I Regret Everything" (Book): https://amzn.to/40BXhBO

Derek Thompson - Fatherhood: https://www.derekthompson.org/p/three-reasons-to-be-a-parent

Lenz Heated Socks: https://lenzproducts.com/

Broken Arrow Skyrace: https://www.brokenarrowskyrace.com/

Tangle Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/tangle/id1538788132

Freehub Magazine: https://freehub.com/

John Mackey on David Senra: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8zqsiePKsg

Jason Fried on David Senra: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdDCtMA1gSw

Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media

Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature

Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media

Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

The Future Of Investing In The Outdoor Industry

Mel Strong made a meaningful impression during her first appearance on the podcast, and we've got her back on the podcast again to demystify how brands can raise capital, how to speak to boards and VCs, and to answer the all-important question...should we have our own venture fund?

Show Notes:

Mel Strong: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melanie-strong/

Mel's First Second Nature Episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2V0nDHyQRw

Next Ventures: https://www.nextventures.com/

TRE: https://www.therunningevent.com/

Nike ACG: http://nikeacg.com/

Oura: https://ouraring.com/

Trial Library: https://www.triallibrary.com/

Eternal: https://eternal.co/

Trucks (VC): https://www.trucks.vc/

Next Ventures Substack: https://nextventures.substack.com/

Felix Kim: https://www.linkedin.com/in/felixkim93/

Ramble Campgrounds: https://ramble.camp/

BPC - Brand, Product, Content:

Ramble Campground: https://ramble.camp/

Path Projects - Basis Tee: https://pathprojects.com/products/basis-tee

The Courage To Be Disliked (Book): https://amzn.to/471R716

Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media

Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature

Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media

Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

Uplifting Talent In The Outdoor Industry

Rachael Burnside saw an opportunity to build a stronger community of women in the bike industry by connecting experienced mentors with mentees, which would help build and retain top talent. The fifth round of the Uplift mentorship program is now underway, and in our conversation, Rachael breaks down the playbook of what it took to build this program - and how any other industry can adapt and benefit from making these connections.

Show Notes:

Rachael Burnside: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rachael-burnside-1bb0b937/

Uplift: https://www.instagram.com/uplift.mentoring.networking/

Shift Active Media: https://www.shiftactivemedia.com/

Rouleur: https://www.rouleur.cc/

Rouleur Live: https://www.rouleur.cc/en-us/pages/rouleur-live

Rapha: https://www.rapha.cc/

Alexa Cunningham: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexa-cunningham-41045433/

Kate Veronneau on Second Nature: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPlJTBv6ABo

Stacy Perlis (CFO at Wahoo): https://www.linkedin.com/in/stacy-perlis-cpa/

BPC - Brand, Product, Content:

Pure Sport: https://puresport.co/en-us

Upway: https://upway.co/

Adweek Article - Outside Interactive: https://www.adweek.com/media/outside-interactive-profit-transformation/

Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media

Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature

Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media

Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

The Roadmap Of Rumpl

Wylie Robinson co-founded Rumpl over a decade ago, bringing an idea to life in the way that every outdoor entrepreneur dreams of doing. Over that time, he's experienced the twists and turns, ups and downs, and during this introspective discussion, we dig into the roadmap and the lessons he's learned from the journey (so far).

Show Notes:

Wylie Robinson: https://www.linkedin.com/in/wylierobinson/

Rumpl: https://www.rumpl.com/

Kickstarter: https://www.kickstarter.com/

Huckberry: https://huckberry.com/

White Road Investments: https://whiteroadinvestments.com/

Rumpl on Shark Tank: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BScmKUoSNdc

Rumpl Collabs: https://www.rumpl.com/pages/collaborations

BPC (Brand, Product, Content):

Kids Ride Shotgun: https://kidsrideshotgun.com/

TowWhee: https://towwhee.com/

Super Rider x Chris King: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvUku8KfEII

Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media

Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature

Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media

Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

Uncovering The Fear Of Success Christian Rawles joins the podcast today for an extremely open and honest discussion about career, success, and how we approach our work. Christian has inspired so many thought-provoking conversations offline, we had to get him on the podcast to share his wisdom and insights with everyone. This is a special episode, we hope you enjoy it!

Christian Rawles: https://www.christianrawles.com/

KORE Podcast: https://koreoutdoors.transistor.fm/

Enneagram Test: https://www.eclecticenergies.com/enneagram/test

Enneagram Made Easy (Book): https://amzn.to/4abMbHO

Tiny Experiments (Book): https://amzn.to/3NP5EGZ

Billy Oppenheimer Newsletter: https://billyoppenheimer.com/

The Go-Giver (Book): https://amzn.to/4qhcIcO

The Lion Tracker's Guide To Life (Book): https://amzn.to/4rndlT6

The Gap and The Gain (Book): https://amzn.to/3NZMGNJ

Founders Podcast: https://www.founderspodcast.com/

Five Year Journal: https://amzn.to/3MkQXLd

BPC - Brand, Product, Content:

Durston Gear: https://durstongear.com/

Centium AI: https://www.centium.ai/

Jonathan Weaver's Substack: https://theantiblueprintproject.substack.com/

Powerwolf: https://www.powerwolf.net/

Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media

Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature

Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media

Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

The Past, Present and Future of Des Linden After winning the Boston Marathon, writing a book, hosting a giant running podcast...what's next? We caught up with Des Linden to talk about her career so far, but more importantly, where she's heading next.

Show Notes:

Des Linden: https://www.instagram.com/des_linden/ Nobody Asked Us (Podcast): https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/nobody-asked-us-with-des-kara/id1664629953 GU x Des: https://guenergy.com/blogs/press/boston-marathon-champion-joins-gu-athlete-team Magda Boulet: https://www.instagram.com/runboulet/ Ruth Croft: https://www.instagram.com/ruthcrofty/ Brooks - Chief Running Advisor: https://www.brooksrunning.com/en_us/athletes-sponsored-by-brooks-running/des-linden/ Choosing To Run (Book): https://amzn.to/3NGMCT3 Marathon des Sables: https://marathondessables.com/ Black Canyon 50K: https://www.aravaiparunning.com/blackcanyon/ Subway Takes x Des: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DQj8ucBDl4B/

BPC - Brand, Product, Content: Brooks Cascadia Elite (Paris Fashion Week): https://www.brooksrunning.com/en_us/cascadia-elite/ Clearlight Infrared Sauna: https://infraredsauna.com/sanctuary-five-person/ Nothing.Tech: https://nothing.tech/ The Generalist: https://www.generalist.com/

Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media

Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature

Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media

Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

The Outdoor Brand Spending $1 MILLION On Ads (Every Month)

You could've heard a pin drop at Outdoor Media Summit when Brian Davis told the audience his brand spends one million dollars on ads every month. But how did he get here? In this week's episode, we got to dive into Brian's history of launching and building brands - and the conversation that followed did not disappoint.

Show Notes:

Brian Davis: https://www.linkedin.com/in/briandavisinnovates/

Hollow Socks: https://hollowsocks.com/

Fix It Sticks: https://store.fixitsticks.com/

Back Bottle: https://backbottle.com/

Zach Stuck: https://x.com/zachmstuck

Zach's Agency: https://www.homesteadstudio.co/

Josh Haskins (New GM): https://www.linkedin.com/in/jthaskins/

Scheels: https://www.scheels.com/

BPC - Brand, Product, Content:

Wahoo Bike: https://www.wahoofitness.com/devices/indoor-cycling/smart-bikes

Fanttik X10 Ace Mini Bike Pump: https://amzn.to/4pYICKZ

Founders Podcast - Kevin Kelly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUKafK3xCfY

Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media

Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature

Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media

Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia