Second Nature

Greg WIlliams joins the podcast this week to share his experience and perspective after working more than twenty years in the outdoor industry. Now President of Backbone Media, he's been able to see the growth of the industry, as well as support the careers of many of the people in it - both current employees as well as those who got their start at Backbone. With the long view of the highs and lows of the industry, Greg has plenty to share in this discussion, both where we've been - and what the future may hold.

Show Notes:

Greg Williams: https://www.linkedin.com/in/greg-williams-3ab5958/

Backbone Media: https://www.backbone.media/

Philadelphia Rock Gym: https://philarockgym.com/

Climbing Magazine: https://www.climbing.com/

Enormocast (Climbing Podcast): https://enormocast.com/

YETI - Camino Bag: https://www.yeti.com/bags/tote-bags/camino-35.html

Penn Newhard: https://www.linkedin.com/in/penn-newhard-b363755/

Nate Simmons: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nate-simmons-21a5846/

Range (Book): https://amzn.to/4g7bddD

Andy Ralston Article on Backbone's Blog: https://www.backbone.media/insights/why-leading-brands-come-to-backbone-for-marketing

BPC - Brand, Product, Content:

Rucking - 5.11: https://www.511tactical.com/

Hyperwear Weighted Vest: https://amzn.to/4mPaD74

Hard MTB League: https://www.hardmtbleague.com/

The Knowledge Podcast - Ryan Petersen: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ryan-petersen-how-to-build-a-global-logistics-engine/id990149481?i=1000720673515

Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media

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Jeremy Dunn has forged his own path through the industry, working for storied brands like Rapha, Specialized and Smith Optics - but he's also created magazines and launched and built brands as an entrepreneur in the industry. In our conversation, we cover the lessons learned from both sides of his experience over the course of his career.

Show Notes:

Jeremy Dunn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeremyddunn/

Rapha: https://www.rapha.cc/

Rouleur Magazine: https://www.rouleur.cc/

Slate Olson: https://www.linkedin.com/in/slate-olson-bb21171/

Chris Froome: https://www.instagram.com/chrisfroome/

Smith Optics: https://www.smithoptics.com/

The Athletic: https://www.theathleticcommunity.com/

Julie Krasniak: https://www.linkedin.com/in/juliekrasniak/

Tracksmith: https://www.tracksmith.com/

Bandit: https://banditrunning.com/

Pas Normal: https://pasnormalstudios.com/

BPC - Brand, Product, Content:

Vollebak: https://vollebak.com/

Pelotan: https://pelotan.cc/

Rapha Films "Gravity": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXjQZcc_D8E

Outdoor Brand Camp: https://www.outdoorbrandcamp.com

John John Florence x Rich Roll: https://www.richroll.com/podcast/john-john-florence-921/

How Long Gone Podcast: https://howlonggone.com/

Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media

Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature

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It's been a hectic summer to say the least, but Dylan and Aaron have found time to catch up and run through the latest and greatest hits in the outdoor industry. In this episode, Dylan takes the reins with a full docket of topics that he's been wanting to cover on the pod.

Show Notes:

Eat My Words (Agency): https://eatmywords.com/

Hello My Name Is Awesome (Book): https://amzn.to/45vKp1O

YaBoyScottJurek: https://www.instagram.com/yaboyscottjurek/

Tracksmith: https://www.tracksmith.com/

Tracksmith Instagram Post: https://www.instagram.com/p/DNOHwmwtFaM/

Matt Trappe Article: https://substack.com/home/post/p-170404996

Bandit: https://banditrunning.com/

Kate - Leadville: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DNLyQWsxvsI/

Golden Trail World Series: https://goldentrailseries.com/

Pablo Torre Finds Out: https://www.youtube.com/@PabloTorreFindsOut

Meadowlark Media: https://www.meadowlark-media.com/

BPC - Brand, Product, Content:

Path Projects: https://pathprojects.com/

The Extramilest Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-extramilest-podcast/id1272025702

Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media

Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature

Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media

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Greg Mills created Kitworks to solve the problem of gear organization, and in less than a year, he's established the product and brand within the outdoor community. In our conversation, we learn about the founding insights, the elements of Greg's background that contributed in a meaningful way to the brand's launch, and how people can utilize their current roles to subsidize their growth and development into opportunities like launching their own brands.

Show Notes:

Kitworks: https://mykitworks.com/

Greg Mills: https://www.linkedin.com/in/itsgregmills/

PNW Components: https://pnwcomponents.com/

Kitworks Gear Tote: https://mykitworks.com/products/gear-tote

Outdoor Voices: https://www.inc.com/ali-donaldson/5-years-after-being-pushed-out-of-outdoor-voices-ty-haney-is-doing-things-again/91219095

Nate Helming: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nathan-helming/

Kitworks Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mykitworks/

BPC - Brand, Product, Content:

The Changing World Order - Ray Dalio (Book): https://amzn.to/46PiVqq

Invest Like The Best (Ramtin Naimi episode): https://joincolossus.com/episode/building-abstract/

Minted NY: https://mintednewyork.com/

Insta350 X5: https://store.insta360.com/consumer?utm_term=INRV8SK

Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media

Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature

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Adam Copeland launched Tantrums less than a year ago, and we've been having a great time watching him build the brand, brick by brick. In this conversation, we dig into the earliest days of the idea - all the way through the inflection points that have brought him to this point (and beyond).

Show Notes:

Tantrums: https://tantrums.run/

Run With Us - Pasadena Shop: https://www.clubrunwithus.com/

SAFE (Definition): https://www.angellist.com/learn/safe-note

Carta: https://carta.com/

Anna Louden: https://www.annalouden.com/

Monte's Tomato Sauce: https://www.instagram.com/p/C9SySioRvaw/

WTRC - Trippers Japan: https://trippers-wtrc.com/

BPC - Brand, Product, Content:

Nike at Western States (ACG): https://www.instagram.com/p/DLd7gU4x_1w/

Acquired Podcast: https://www.acquired.fm/

Win The Inside Game - Steve Magnus (Book): https://amzn.to/4lOOg1d

Invest LIke The Best - Jens Grede, Skims: https://joincolossus.com/episode/building-skims/

Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media

Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature

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Dylan and Aaron catch up in the middle of the summer to reflect on where things are at - and how far we've come. Resetting our expectations - or "moving the goalposts" - based on how things have evolved over time. During this conversation, they put it into context for other media properties - and ask the real questions about where to go next.

Show Notes:

Freetrail: https://www.freetrail.com

Peak Life Experience: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ku4dYpW6MG0

Billy Oppenheimer Newsletter: https://billyoppenheimer.com/

Quarter HP: https://www.youtube.com/@quarterhp

Joe Budden Network: https://www.patreon.com/cw/joebudden

Joe Budden NY Times Article: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/22/business/media/joe-budden-podcast-finances.html

Long Run Labs Podcast Collective: https://longrunlabs.substack.com/p/introducing-the-long-run-labs-podcast

Vox Media: https://podcasts.voxmedia.com/

Channels - Peter Kafka: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/channels-with-peter-kafka/id1080467174

Insta360: https://store.insta360.com/consumer?utm_term=INRV8SK

Substack Raises $100M: https://techcrunch.com/2025/07/17/substack-raises-100m-from-chernin-group-andreessen-horowitz-skims-ceo-and-more/

Red Bull Hardline: https://www.redbull.com/us-en/event-series/red-bull-hardline

BPC - Brand, Product, Content:

Kitworks: https://www.mykitworks.com

Kilian Jornet - 15 Years Stronger: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faDan5z16qc

Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media

Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature

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Adam Miller founded Revel Bikes, sold it to private equity, then bought it back when the brand went bankrupt. We've seen this same program play out so many times in the past few years - but what makes this story different is that Adam bought his original company back and relaunched it. In this conversation, Adam takes us through the entire journey, with a bunch of behind-the-scenes insights.

Show Notes:

Revel Bikes: https://revelbikes.com/

Borealis Bikes: https://fatbike.com/

Why Cycles: https://www.instagram.com/whycycles/

Canfield: https://canfieldbikes.com/

Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media

Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature

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Imagine running a travel agency in the year 2020 - and not only surviving, but finding new ways to continue growing the business. Travel is something that connects everyone in the outdoor industry (and beyond), and in this conversation, Leigh gives us a behind-the-scenes look at one of the largest adventure travel agencies in the world.

Show Notes:

Leigh Barnes: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lcbarnes/

Intrepid Travel: https://www.intrepidtravel.com/us

Timeshifter: https://www.timeshifter.com/

DJI on Everest: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csDriucITDE

Uncharted Trips: https://www.intrepidtravel.com/us/uncharted

Antarctica Trip: https://www.intrepidtravel.com/us/antarctica

Intrepid - Protecting National Parks: https://www.intrepidtravel.com/adventures/protect-us-national-parks/

BPC: Brand, Product, Content:

Citymapper (App): https://citymapper.com/

Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media

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Dylan and Aaron get back together for a catch-up after Aaron's latest trip to China. Outdoor sports are booming over there and brands are taking notice. In this conversation, Aaron shares all of his notes from everything he saw over there - and a glimpse into the future.

Show Notes:

Super Rider: https://www.youtube.com/@SuperRiderTV

Microsoft - Acquired Episode: https://www.acquired.fm/episodes/microsoft

Mario's Book Recommendation: https://amzn.to/4kTbXEW

Video Night In Kathmandu (Book): https://amzn.to/3TLHz3z

David Autor: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/14/opinion/china-shock-economy-manufacturing.html

Nick Denton: https://www.semafor.com/article/03/28/2025/nick-denton-gawker-surprising-return

Western States Livestream: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehpqF2J91rg

BPC - Brand, Product, Content:

Ben Gibbard x Speedland GSTMT: https://www.runspeedland.com/products/gs-tmt-copy

Road Fools BMX Series: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fr89kMr_V-k

Bus Run Bus - Rickey Gates: https://www.busrunbus.com/

Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media

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Chelsea Sodaro broke into the mainstream when she won the Ironman World Championship in 2022, but it's fair to say her accomplishments outside of that race have been just as impressive. She has created space for conversations around mental health in sports, parenting, and so much more. Her approach is best summed up by the mantra she has written on her bike: "YES YES YES". Chelsea continues to inspire by creating a new event called Unlocking Yes, and in this podcast, we dive deep into the details of her inaugural event.

Show Notes:

Chelsea Sodaro: https://www.instagram.com/chelseasodaro/

Chelsea's NYT Article: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/30/sports/ironwoman-kona-chelsa-sodaro.html

Kate Courtney: https://www.instagram.com/kateplusfate/

RXR Sports: https://www.rxrsports.com/

Unlocking Yes Event: https://chelseasodaro.com/unlockingyes/

For All Mothers: https://www.forallmothers.org/

For All Mothers - Grants: https://www.forallmothers.org/grants

Pro Triathlete Organization: https://protriathletes.org/

BPC - Brand, Product, Content:

On Running: https://www.on.com/

Marin Gestalt XR (Bike): https://www.marinbikes.com/bikes/2025-gestalt-xr

Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media

Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature

Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media

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