Ten Golden Rules Growth Strategies for Law Firms Podcast

How can lawyers build a book of business without sacrificing their health, relationships, or time outside work? Jay welcomes legal recruiter Jennifer Gillman back to discuss The 6 Pillars to Be(coming) a Happy Rainmaker, her business parable about creating a successful and sustainable legal career. Jennifer explains why finding the right firm fit matters and why changing firms is not always the answer. She then shares the book’s six pillars: caring for yourself, building business, setting boundaries, planning intentionally, learning continuously, and creating a legacy. From nurturing relationships in small pockets of time to putting a vacation on the calendar, her advice gives lawyers practical ways to start. The takeaway: developing your own clients can give you more choice in your career and more room for the life you want outside it.

Key Topics

03:21 – Jennifer’s path from litigation to recruiting reveals what changed her understanding of a fulfilling legal career.

06:41 – A recruiting assignment raises a question every lawyer considering a move should ask before accepting a new opportunity.

10:13 – The advice many young lawyers receive about doing excellent work leaves out a crucial part of career growth.

13:54 – Even lawyers with strong client relationships and substantial revenue can find themselves questioning whether they are in the right place.

15:41 – Before changing firms, there may be a way to test whether the real problem can be addressed where you are.

22:22 – The six pillars of The Happy Rainmaker grew from a pattern Jennifer kept seeing among accomplished lawyers.

25:38 – A small pocket of time between client demands may be enough to begin changing both your business development and well-being.

28:18 – Bringing in your own clients can change more than your revenue. Jennifer explores what it can mean for your day-to-day choices.

30:20 – Boundaries and intentional planning become more practical when you decide in advance what deserves space on your calendar.

39:09 - Tune into The Golden Rapid Fire Questions

Resources Mentioned

Technology

LinkedIn (Professional Networking Platform) – https://www.linkedin.com/

Zoom (Video Conferencing Platform) – https://zoom.us/

Books

The Happy Rainmaker – Jennifer Gillman – https://www.amazon.com/dp/1966168624

The Go-Giver – Bob Burg and John David Mann – https://www.amazon.com/Go-Giver-Expanded-Little-Powerful-Business/dp/1591848288

The 10 Golden Rules of Online Marketing – Jay Berkowitz – https://www.tengoldenrules.com/shop/

Podcasts

They Don’t Teach This in Law School – Charley Mann – https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/they-dont-teach-this-in-law-school/id1640557971

Other

Gillman Strategic Group – https://gillmanstrategicgroup.com/

2016 Study on Lawyer Substance Use and Mental Health – https://www.americanbar.org/groups/lawyer_assistance/research/colap_hazelden_lawyer_study/

Law360 – https://www.law360.com/

Law.com – https://www.law.com/

The American Lawyer – https://www.law.com/americanlawyer/

BNI – https://www.bni.com/

About our Guest:

Jennifer Gillman is the Founder of Gillman Strategic Group, a legal recruiting firm specializing in partner-level placements. Known as a “law firm matchmaker,” she helps partners and solo practitioners with established client bases find firms that better fit their practice, ambitions, and personal goals.

With 12 years practicing law and more than 10 years in legal recruiting, Jennifer brings a candidate-focused approach to evaluating firms, negotiating terms, and guiding career moves that improve both professional success and quality of life.

The Happy Rainmaker – Jennifer Gillman – https://www.amazon.com/dp/1966168624

Gillman Strategic Group – https://gillmanstrategicgroup.com/

AI is moving beyond software that assists law firms and toward something closer to a digital employee that can handle real work. Jay Berkowitz speaks with brothers Jacob and Abraham Adberstein, founders of Reflekt Legal, about building AI-powered reception and intake systems designed for high-stakes legal conversations. Drawing on backgrounds in aerospace engineering, NASA, cybersecurity, and ethical hacking, they explain how human psychology, trust, and reliability shaped their approach to conversational AI. The discussion explores phone intake, after-hours coverage, concurrent calls, retainers, payments, lead attribution, and integrations with existing legal technology. They also share advice for evaluating AI products without getting distracted by flashy demos. The larger opportunity for law firms is to stop thinking of AI only as another tool and start considering how trained AI employees could expand capacity, consistency, and service.

Key Topics

02:18 – Jacob and Abraham share the technical backgrounds that eventually led a NASA engineer and cybersecurity specialist to build a legal AI company together.

05:00 – Discover the problem they set out to solve when two founders realized they needed more leverage to compete with larger companies.

06:00 – The brothers explain why understanding human conversation and trust became central to the AI system they were building.

09:46 – Jay raises one of the biggest questions surrounding AI intake: whether technology can eventually perform more consistently than human staff.

12:09 – Hear Reflekt Legal put its technology on the spot as Jay makes a live test call pretending to be a prospective personal injury client.

16:38 – See how firms are beginning to introduce AI into reception and intake without immediately changing their entire operation.

19:05 – Reception is only the beginning as the conversation turns to retainers, payments, routing, lead sources, and visibility into intake performance.

22:07 – A new Clio integration highlights how Reflekt Legal fits alongside the case management systems firms already use.

25:00 – Jacob and Abraham share what law firms should look for when testing AI products and why polished demos do not always reflect real-world performance.

30:06 - Tune into The Golden Rapid Fire Questions

Resources Mentioned

Technology

• Reflekt Legal (AI reception and intake platform) – https://reflektlegal.ai/
• Clio (Legal practice management software) – https://www.clio.com/
• ChatGPT (AI assistant) – https://chatgpt.com/
• Perplexity (AI search platform) – https://www.perplexity.ai/
• Cloudflare (Web security and infrastructure platform) – https://www.cloudflare.com/
• Fathom AI (Meeting recording and transcription software) – https://fathom.video/
• tl;dv (Meeting recording and transcription software) – https://tldv.io/
• Claude Cowork (AI productivity tool) – https://coworkerai.io/

• Rich Dad Poor Dad – Robert T. Kiyosaki – https://a.co/d/0cgwrK0f

Podcasts

• The Diary of a CEO – Steven Bartlett – https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-diary-of-a-ceo-with-steven-bartlett/id1291423644
• Founders – David Senra – https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/founders/id1141877104

About our Guests:

Abraham Adberstein is a legal technology entrepreneur, AI strategist, and co-founder of Reflekt Legal, where he helps law firms leverage artificial intelligence and automation to eliminate repetitive administrative work and operate more efficiently. With a background spanning AI, cybersecurity, and legal technology, Abraham specializes in developing practical solutions that allow attorneys and staff to spend less time on manual processes and more time serving clients.

A frequent speaker at legal conferences and technology events, Abraham is passionate about helping lawyers understand how AI can enhance—not replace—the human side of legal practice. His work focuses on transforming complex workflows into streamlined, scalable systems that improve productivity, client service, and firm profitability. Through Reflekt Legal, he continues to help firms embrace the future of legal operations with confidence and clarity. (LinkedIn)

Jacob Adberstein is a legal technology innovator, AI product leader, and co-founder of Reflekt Legal, where he develops intelligent software solutions designed to modernize law firm operations. Combining a background in software engineering with a passion for emerging technologies, Jacob helps legal professionals automate routine tasks, improve workflows, and unlock the full potential of artificial intelligence.

Known for making complex technology approachable, Jacob regularly speaks with attorneys about practical AI adoption, workflow automation, and the future of legal practice. His mission is to help law firms work smarter by using technology to increase efficiency while preserving the personal relationships and professional judgment that define outstanding legal service. (LinkedIn)

About Jay Berkowitz:

Jay Berkowitz is a best-selling author and popular keynote speaker. Mr. Berkowitz managed marketing departments at: Coca-Cola, Sprint and McDonald's Restaurants, and he is the Founder and CEO of Ten Golden Rules, a digital marketing agency specialized in working with attorneys.

Mr. Berkowitz is the author of Advanced Internet Marketing for Law Firms, The Ten Golden Rules of Online Marketing and 10 Free Internet Marketing Strategies that went to #1 on Amazon. He is the host of the Ten Golden Rules of Internet Marketing Webinar and Podcast. He has been profiled by the Wall Street Journal, The Business Journals and FOX Business TV.

Mr. Berkowitz was selected for membership as a TITAN for Elite Digital Marketing Agencies, he is the recipient of a SOFIE Award for Most Effective use of Emerging Media, and a Special BERNAY’s Award.

Connect with Ten Golden Rules

Subscribe to Ten Golden Rules on YouTube

Check out our webinars on TenGoldenRules.com

Connect with Ten Golden Rules on LinkedIn

Follow Ten Golden Rules on Facebook

Connect with Jay Berkowitz on LinkedIn

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Sustainable law firm growth rarely comes from one breakthrough tactic. It comes from consistently improving the fundamentals that make the business stronger. Jay Berkowitz speaks with family lawyer Charles D. Hatley of Melone Hatley about scaling from a small practice into a firm with 12 locations across five states. Charles shares the principles behind that growth, including disciplined cash management, local SEO, authentic branding, community involvement, client feedback, data-driven decision-making, and repeatable operating systems. He also explains how the firm uses podcasting, Google reviews, Net Promoter Score, and culture-building to strengthen both marketing and operations. For law firm owners looking to scale, the larger lesson is to focus less on appearing sophisticated and more on building simple systems that can be measured, repeated, and improved as the firm grows.

Key Topics

02:06 – Charles shares the unconventional path that took him from manufacturing work to family law and eventually into building a firm with his wife.

03:17 – Discover the financial principle Charles still uses every Monday as the firm grows across multiple states.

04:26 – A simple experiment with Google Maps became one of the first major growth drivers for Melone Hatley.

06:58 – Charles explains the surprisingly straightforward approach that helped the firm generate more Google reviews.

10:14 – See how Melone Hatley decides which community sponsorships deserve the firm’s time, money, and name.

12:22 – Charles reveals why moving away from the traditional law firm image helped the firm create a more authentic and recognizable brand.

14:42 – The firm’s podcast began as a way to educate people, but a change in how episodes were reused created an additional growth opportunity.

18:57 – Charles breaks down the data philosophy the firm uses to connect marketing activity, individual clients, and profitability.

22:03 – Learn how Melone Hatley uses direct client feedback and Net Promoter Score to identify where the client experience can improve.

26:36 – Tune into The Golden Rapid Fire Questions

Resources Mentioned

Technology

• Google Business Profile (Local business listing platform) – https://www.google.com/business/
• Clio (Law practice management software) – https://www.clio.com/
• QuickBooks (Accounting software) – https://quickbooks.intuit.com/
• Microsoft SharePoint (Company intranet and collaboration software) – https://www.microsoft.com/microsoft-365/sharepoint/collaboration

Books

• Scaling Up – Verne Harnish – https://a.co/d/05BMpqAp
• Mastering the Rockefeller Habits – Verne Harnish – https://a.co/d/0i7FsqTo
• Traction – Gino Wickman – https://a.co/d/0dbKqQJd
• Eat That Frog! – Brian Tracy – https://a.co/d/0fUpWavh
• The Gift of Fear – Gavin de Becker – https://a.co/d/0bHRD0R6

About our Guest:

Charles D. Hatley, Esq. is the Chief Executive Officer of Melone Hatley, P.C., where he combines visionary leadership with entrepreneurial drive to shape the firm’s growth, strategy, and culture. Recognized for building high-performing teams and fostering innovation, Charles is committed to creating a workplace where collaboration, professional development, and accountability drive both employee success and client satisfaction.

A strategic leader with extensive experience across multiple industries, Charles has a proven record of scaling operations, enhancing efficiency, and implementing forward-thinking strategies that deliver sustainable growth. He believes that leadership is not just about guiding a firm, it’s about inspiring people, empowering teams, and building a culture where talent thrives and ideas flourish.

Before leading Melone Hatley, Charles managed offices for a national law firm, litigating high-stakes family law cases across Virginia and Washington, D.C. Today, he merges that big-law expertise with an entrepreneurial, boutique approach, ensuring clients receive practical, strategic, and compassionate guidance while feeling supported throughout challenging legal processes. Under his leadership, the firm has evolved into a client-centered, innovative practice where people – both employees and clients – feel empowered, supported, and motivated to succeed.

Beyond his leadership role, Charles shares his expertise as the host of the firm’s own podcast, I Now Pronounce You Divorced, where he explores key topics in divorce, child custody, and co-parenting.

https://www.melonelawpc.com/

About Jay Berkowitz:

Jay Berkowitz is a best-selling author and popular keynote speaker. Mr. Berkowitz managed marketing departments at: Coca-Cola, Sprint and McDonald's Restaurants, and he is the Founder and CEO of Ten Golden Rules, a digital marketing agency specialized in working with attorneys.

Mr. Berkowitz is the author of Advanced Internet Marketing for Law Firms, The Ten Golden Rules of Online Marketing and 10 Free Internet Marketing Strategies that went to #1 on Amazon. He is the host of the Ten Golden Rules of Internet Marketing Webinar and Podcast. He has been profiled by the Wall Street Journal, The Business Journals and FOX Business TV.

Mr. Berkowitz was selected for membership as a TITAN for Elite Digital Marketing Agencies, he is the recipient of a SOFIE Award for Most Effective use of Emerging Media, and a Special BERNAY’s Award.

Connect with Ten Golden Rules

Subscribe to Ten Golden Rules on YouTube

Check out our webinars on TenGoldenRules.com

Connect with Ten Golden Rules on LinkedIn

Follow Ten Golden Rules on Facebook

Connect with Jay Berkowitz on LinkedIn

Thanks for listening!

Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page.

Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!

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LinkedIn can become a powerful business development tool without becoming a second full-time job. Jay sits down with LinkedIn coach and longtime advertising professional Jennifer Darling about a practical system for busy lawyers and professionals who want to build visibility, relationships, and authority online. Jennifer breaks LinkedIn into three core areas: profile, people, and posts, showing how each can support referrals and business growth. She explains how to make a profile more client-focused, strategically expand a network, create high-value content, and repurpose existing expertise with AI. The conversation also explores newsletters, carousels, personal stories, video, and relationship-building strategies. The larger takeaway is that LinkedIn works best when professionals stop chasing every algorithm change and build a repeatable system around valuable content, meaningful connections, and consistent visibility.

Key Topics

02:29 – Jennifer shares how decades in advertising eventually led her to develop LinkedIn strategies specifically for busy business professionals.

12:02 – Discover the three-part framework Jennifer uses to simplify LinkedIn and keep professionals focused on the activities that matter most.

13:23 – See what changes when a LinkedIn profile is written for the people you want to attract instead of simply describing your own background.

28:16 – Jennifer expands the idea of networking beyond prospects and reveals the types of connections that can become valuable referral relationships.

36:03 – Instead of chasing every LinkedIn algorithm change, Jennifer looks at a more durable way to decide what deserves a place in your content strategy.

39:31 – One underused LinkedIn publishing feature can give professionals another way to build visibility, subscribers, and a body of searchable expertise.

44:04 – Jennifer introduces another type of content that encourages people to interact with your ideas rather than simply scroll past them.

47:01 – A personal story can perform surprisingly well on a business platform when it is connected to the right kind of lesson.

54:00 – Discover how Jennifer turns conversations and expertise she has already created into a steady stream of new content with help from AI.

01:04:12 – Tune into The Golden Rapid Fire Questions

Resources Mentioned

Technology

• LinkedIn (Professional networking platform) – https://www.linkedin.com/
• Canva (Design platform) – https://www.canva.com/
• Microsoft PowerPoint (Presentation software) – https://www.microsoft.com/microsoft-365/powerpoint
• Apple Keynote (Presentation software) – https://www.apple.com/keynote/
• Claude (AI assistant) – https://claude.ai/
• ChatGPT (AI assistant) – https://chatgpt.com/
• Google Gemini (AI assistant) – https://gemini.google.com/
• Perplexity (AI search platform) – https://www.perplexity.ai/
• Substack (Publishing platform) – https://substack.com/

Books

• Growing Your Business!: What You Need to Know What You Need to Do – Mark LeBlanc – https://a.co/d/01tpQzco
• The Leader’s Brain – Michael Platt – https://a.co/d/05Sm7rAt

Podcasts

• Mel Robbins – https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-mel-robbins-podcast/id1646101002

About our Guest:

Jennifer Darling, MM, ACC is a keynote speaker, sales and marketing strategist, executive coach, and author who helps business leaders increase their visibility, strengthen their professional brands, and turn relationships into revenue. With more than 20 years of experience in advertising sales and sales management with major media companies including FOX, NBC, CBS, and Comcast, Jennifer brings a practical, results-focused perspective to sales, marketing, leadership, and LinkedIn. (Jennifer Darling Speaks)

Known for her high-energy and engaging speaking style, Jennifer teaches audiences how to connect more effectively, stand out as trusted experts, and use LinkedIn and other modern strategies to generate more customers and referrals. She delivers keynotes, workshops, seminars, and virtual programs on sales and marketing, leadership, visibility, and navigating change. (Jennifer Darling Speaks)

Jennifer is the author of Increase Your Leads with LinkedIn: 52 Tips for Sales Success and has been recognized as one of SweetFish Media’s Top 50 Female Sales Speakers. She was also voted 2020 Best in Show by the Professional Convention Management Association’s Convening Leaders. Jennifer is a professional member of the National Speakers Association, a Distinguished Toastmaster, and holds a graduate degree in business management. (Jennifer Darling Speaks)

Her philosophy is straightforward: great marketing isn’t about making more noise—it’s about becoming more visible, creating meaningful connections, and giving the right people a reason to remember you.

Jennifer Darling’s Ultimate Profile Checklist – https://ultimateprofilechecklist.com/

About Jay Berkowitz:

Jay Berkowitz is a best-selling author and popular keynote speaker. Mr. Berkowitz managed marketing departments at: Coca-Cola, Sprint and McDonald's Restaurants, and he is the Founder and CEO of Ten Golden Rules, a digital marketing agency specialized in working with attorneys.

Mr. Berkowitz is the author of Advanced Internet Marketing for Law Firms, The Ten Golden Rules of Online Marketing and 10 Free Internet Marketing Strategies that went to #1 on Amazon. He is the host of the Ten Golden Rules of Internet Marketing Webinar and Podcast. He has been profiled by the Wall Street Journal, The Business Journals and FOX Business TV.

Mr. Berkowitz was selected for membership as a TITAN for Elite Digital Marketing Agencies, he is the recipient of a SOFIE Award for Most Effective use of Emerging Media, and a Special BERNAY’s Award.

Connect with Ten Golden Rules

Subscribe to Ten Golden Rules on YouTube

Check out our webinars on TenGoldenRules.com

Connect with Ten Golden Rules on LinkedIn

Follow Ten Golden Rules on Facebook

Connect with Jay Berkowitz on LinkedIn

Thanks for listening!

Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page.

Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!

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A strong brand can become one of a law firm’s most valuable assets, but failing to protect it can create expensive problems as the business grows. Jay Berkowitz speaks with L.A. Perkins of Perkins Law - Brand Protection, author of Why Brand Protection Matters, about the decisions business owners should make before investing heavily in a name, slogan, logo, or other intellectual property. L.A. explains the differences between trademarks, copyrights, patents, and trade secrets, what preliminary searches can and cannot tell you, and why owning a domain does not mean owning a brand. She also shares how writing a book strengthened her thought leadership and visibility. The larger lesson is that brand protection should be part of building a business from the beginning, not something addressed only after success creates a conflict.

Key Topics

03:05 – L.A. shares the early experience that first put her on the path toward law and eventually intellectual property.

08:26 – Discover what gave L.A. the push to leave firm life, invest in herself, and build a law firm around her entrepreneurial instincts.

09:51 – A repeated conversation with prospective clients became the inspiration for a book and opened a new chapter in L.A.’s professional brand.

17:08 – Jay asks L.A. to untangle four forms of intellectual property that business owners frequently confuse.

20:50 – Before investing years into a new brand, there are several preliminary checks that can reveal potential problems much earlier.

23:52 – See why securing a domain name tells you much less about ownership of a brand than many entrepreneurs assume.

26:31 – L.A. explains what makes some trademarks easier to protect than others and why creativity can matter when protecting a law firm name.

28:35 – A clever grassroots marketing example raises an important question about how closely a business can borrow the look and feel of another brand.

31:26 – Discover what can be at stake when a company builds substantial success around a name or slogan without doing the right research first.

33:20 – Tune into The Golden Rapid Fire Questions

Resources Mentioned

Technology

• Clio (Law practice management software) – https://www.clio.com/
• Clio Work (Legal AI platform) – https://www.clio.com/
• ChatGPT (AI assistant) – https://chatgpt.com/
• Claude (AI assistant) – https://claude.ai/
• Google AI / Gemini (AI assistant) – https://gemini.google.com/
• GoDaddy (Domain registration platform) – https://www.godaddy.com/

Books

• Why Brand Protection Matters – L.A. Perkins – https://a.co/d/077XrHhi
• The AI-Driven Leader – Geoff Woods – https://a.co/d/0adOYPh3

About our Guest:

L.A. Perkins is a Brand Protection Attorney who helps businesses protect and strengthen their most valuable assets—their brands. She advises companies on trademark strategy, brand enforcement, intellectual property protection, and risk management, helping clients safeguard their names, logos, and reputations in an increasingly competitive marketplace. Known for her practical, business-focused approach, L.A. works with entrepreneurs and established organizations to build, protect, and defend brands that drive long-term success.

Perkins Law - Brand Protection – https://www.brandprotection.law

About Jay Berkowitz:

Jay Berkowitz is a best-selling author and popular keynote speaker. Mr. Berkowitz managed marketing departments at: Coca-Cola, Sprint and McDonald's Restaurants, and he is the Founder and CEO of Ten Golden Rules, a digital marketing agency specialized in working with attorneys.

Mr. Berkowitz is the author of Advanced Internet Marketing for Law Firms, The Ten Golden Rules of Online Marketing and 10 Free Internet Marketing Strategies that went to #1 on Amazon. He is the host of the Ten Golden Rules of Internet Marketing Webinar and Podcast. He has been profiled by the Wall Street Journal, The Business Journals and FOX Business TV.

Mr. Berkowitz was selected for membership as a TITAN for Elite Digital Marketing Agencies, he is the recipient of a SOFIE Award for Most Effective use of Emerging Media, and a Special BERNAY’s Award.

Connect with Ten Golden Rules

Subscribe to Ten Golden Rules on YouTube

Check out our webinars on TenGoldenRules.com

Connect with Ten Golden Rules on LinkedIn

Follow Ten Golden Rules on Facebook

Connect with Jay Berkowitz on LinkedIn

Thanks for listening!

Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page.

Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!

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If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can also subscribe in your favorite podcast app.

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Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.

Click. Call. Convert. Client. Paid Search - Local Service Ads - LSA and Pay Per Click - PPC still works for law firms, but clicks alone do not build a profitable campaign. Jay Berkowitz breaks down the current state of Google advertising in this Ten Golden Rules live webinar, focusing on the full journey from click to call, conversion, and signed client. Using real campaign data, Jay explains how Local Services Ads and PPC perform differently, what firms should measure beyond impressions and clicks, and where conversion opportunities are often lost. He also covers call response, messaging, landing-page design, campaign structure, Google reviews, and the growing influence of AI Overviews on search behavior. The central message is simple: firms that measure the entire path from advertising spend to signed cases can make smarter decisions, improve conversion, and get more value from Google.

Key Topics

00:38 – Jay sets up the click-to-client framework and previews the numbers law firms should be watching when evaluating paid Google campaigns.

08:17 – Discover what makes Local Services Ads different from traditional PPC and why their position at the top of Google creates a distinct opportunity.

11:00 – Several small intake decisions can influence whether Google continues sending opportunities to your firm through LSAs.

18:43 – Jay compares the way Google allocates LSA opportunities with the very different economics of scaling a PPC campaign.

23:09 – See how campaign structure, targeting, keywords, and landing pages work together before a prospect ever becomes a lead.

28:25 – One conversion channel consistently produces stronger results than another, changing the way Jay recommends designing law firm landing pages.

31:59 – AI Overviews are changing the early stages of legal search, creating a new opportunity for firms that know how prospective clients phrase their questions.

35:47 – Jay walks through the content signals that can help a law firm become a more useful source for Google’s AI-generated answers.

39:14 – The Q&A explores where firms with limited budgets should start and which marketing channels deserve priority when resources are tight.

49:14 – A final audience question brings PPC, LSAs, SEO, video, and AI search together into a broader strategy for capturing more of the available market.

Resources Mentioned

• Download The Hottest Trends for Law Firms Handbook at https://www.tengoldenrules.com/hottrends/

Technology

• Google Ads (Paid search advertising platform) – https://ads.google.com/
• Google Local Services Ads (Pay-per-lead advertising platform) – https://ads.google.com/local-services-ads/
• Google Business Profile (Local business listing platform) – https://www.google.com/business/
• CallRail (Call tracking software) – https://www.callrail.com/
• WhatConverts (Lead tracking software) – https://www.whatconverts.com/
• Juvo Leads (Chat and intake technology) – https://juvoleads.com/
• Intaker (Legal intake technology) – https://intaker.com/
• Birdeye (Review management software) – https://birdeye.com/
• ChatGPT (AI assistant) – https://chatgpt.com/
• Claude (AI assistant) – https://claude.ai/
• Perplexity (AI search platform) – https://www.perplexity.ai/
• Grok (AI assistant) – https://grok.com/
• YouTube (Video and search platform) – https://www.youtube.com/

Books

• Advanced Internet Marketing for Law Firms – Jay Berkowitz – https://a.co/d/02Qa5AmE

About Jay Berkowitz:

Jay Berkowitz is a best-selling author and popular keynote speaker. Mr. Berkowitz managed marketing departments at: Coca-Cola, Sprint and McDonald's Restaurants, and he is the Founder and CEO of Ten Golden Rules, a digital marketing agency specialized in working with attorneys.

Mr. Berkowitz is the author of Advanced Internet Marketing for Law Firms, The Ten Golden Rules of Online Marketing and 10 Free Internet Marketing Strategies that went to #1 on Amazon. He is the host of the Ten Golden Rules of Internet Marketing Webinar and Podcast. He has been profiled by the Wall Street Journal, The Business Journals and FOX Business TV.

Mr. Berkowitz was selected for membership as a TITAN for Elite Digital Marketing Agencies, he is the recipient of a SOFIE Award for Most Effective use of Emerging Media, and a Special BERNAY’s Award.

Connect with Ten Golden Rules

Subscribe to Ten Golden Rules on YouTube

Check out our webinars on TenGoldenRules.com

Connect with Ten Golden Rules on LinkedIn

Follow Ten Golden Rules on Facebook

Connect with Jay Berkowitz on LinkedIn

Thanks for listening!

Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page.

Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!

Subscribe to the podcast

If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can also subscribe in your favorite podcast app.

Leave us an Apple Podcast review

Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.

Getting more traffic is only part of law firm marketing. The bigger challenge is adapting to how prospective clients search, communicate, and decide who earns their business. Jay Berkowitz and Ted DeBettencourt of Juvo Leads turn this dual-podcast conversation into a practical look at the changing path from traffic to leads. They explore what years of A/B testing reveal about conversion, the growing role of text and messaging, how AI is reshaping search and content, and where human interaction still matters most. They also examine how firms can build authority as Google and AI platforms change discovery and why speed and communication preferences increasingly influence conversion. As marketing evolves, the firms positioned to win will continuously test what works while making it easier for prospects to find, trust, and communicate with them.

Key Topics

03:25 – Jay looks back at the original Ten Golden Rules and explains what more than two decades of digital marketing have taught him about strategies that survive changing technology.

06:48 – See what Ted’s team has learned from running dozens of controlled experiments and why seemingly small website changes can produce unexpected results.

12:00 – Ted reveals a major shift in how prospective legal clients are choosing to start conversations with law firms.

15:24 – One common conversion instinct can work against the communication preference a prospect has already shown you.

18:23 – Jay breaks down what the rise of AI search actually means for the way prospective clients move from an initial question toward choosing a lawyer.

22:00 – Discover the three areas Jay is prioritizing as law firms compete for visibility across Google, YouTube, and AI-powered search.

27:19 – Jay and Ted explore where AI strengthens marketing and where relying on automation can make content and client communication less effective.

29:00 – Ted shares what his team is seeing when prospective clients encounter AI during conversations involving serious legal matters.

32:54 – A recent change to Google Local Services Ads is creating a new challenge for firms competing to reach the same prospect.

35:56 - Tune into The Golden Rapid Fire Questions

Resources Mentioned

• Juvo Leads (Human-powered chat and phone answering) – juvoleads.com
• Google (Search platform) – google.com
• YouTube (Video and search platform) – youtube.com
• ChatGPT (AI assistant) – chatgpt.com
• Perplexity (AI search platform) – perplexity.ai
• Claude (AI assistant) – claude.ai

• The E-Myth Revisited – Michael E. Gerber – https://a.co/d/067Aecw9
• How to Win Friends and Influence People – Dale Carnegie – https://a.co/d/0egNepF5
• Angel: How to Invest in Technology Startups-Timeless Advice from an Angel Investor Who Turned $100,000 into $100,000,000 – Jason Calacanis – https://a.co/d/09ZbcIg4

• Traffic to Leads – Ted DeBettencourt – https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/traffic-to-leads/id1701758201
• This Week in Startups – Jason Calacanis – https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/this-week-in-startups/id315114957
• All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg – Chamath Palihapitiya, Jason Calacanis, David Sacks & David Friedberg – https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/all-in-with-chamath-jason-sacks-friedberg/id1502871393

• Reddit – reddit.com
• Quora – quora.com

About our Guest:

Ted DeBettencourt is the founder of Juvo Leads, a leading legal marketing company that helps law firms convert more website visitors into signed clients through real-person live chat, lead response, and client intake solutions. Combining a background in law, business, and digital marketing, Ted has spent more than a decade helping law firms improve lead conversion, streamline intake, and maximize the return on their marketing investment. (Legal Talk Network)

After starting his career in legal marketing and SEO, Ted founded Juvo Leads in 2016. Since then, the company has grown to serve more than 1,000 law firms nationwide with a team of nearly 100 live chat specialists. He is a frequent speaker and podcast guest on legal marketing, client intake, lead tracking, and the evolving role of technology and Ai in helping law firms grow. (Legal Talk Network)

About Jay Berkowitz:

Jay Berkowitz is a best-selling author and popular keynote speaker. Mr. Berkowitz managed marketing departments at: Coca-Cola, Sprint and McDonald's Restaurants, and he is the Founder and CEO of Ten Golden Rules, a digital marketing agency specialized in working with attorneys.

Mr. Berkowitz is the author of Advanced Internet Marketing for Law Firms, The Ten Golden Rules of Online Marketing and 10 Free Internet Marketing Strategies that went to #1 on Amazon. He is the host of the Ten Golden Rules of Internet Marketing Webinar and Podcast. He has been profiled by the Wall Street Journal, The Business Journals and FOX Business TV.

Mr. Berkowitz was selected for membership as a TITAN for Elite Digital Marketing Agencies, he is the recipient of a SOFIE Award for Most Effective use of Emerging Media, and a Special BERNAY’s Award.

Connect with Ten Golden Rules

Subscribe to Ten Golden Rules on YouTube

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Please enjoy the #1 rated presentation from our annual live event TGR Live! Growth Strategies for Law Firms. In this presentation law firm owner and intake expert Rob Levine shares the systems he uses to turn more inquiries into signed cases. Rob explains why every phone call, form fill, and chat must receive the same urgency, how intelligent call routing and automatic callbacks recover lost opportunities, and why intake teams should be trained and managed as sales teams. He also shares the KPIs, chase processes, incentive structures, and AI tools his team uses at scale. The real opportunity is not simply generating more leads. It is building an intake operation that responds faster, converts more consistently, and captures more value from every marketing dollar.

Key Topics

01:03 – Rob shares a practical approach for bringing new ideas back to your team without creating overwhelm or resistance.

05:03 – See where some of the biggest revenue leaks can occur between your marketing efforts and a signed case.

06:48 – Three different ways prospects contact your firm can produce very different results if your intake team does not handle them correctly.

11:00 – Rob walks through a smarter way to route incoming calls so the right person handles each opportunity from the start.

20:21 – One seemingly helpful intake practice was costing Rob’s firm millions, until the data revealed what prospects actually wanted.

23:39 – Discover how Rob decides which intake team member should receive the next lead when multiple people are available.

31:08 – Rob reveals what his team discovered after analyzing thousands of callers who hung up before speaking with someone.

35:20 – Learn the intake metric Rob watches closely to determine whether qualified prospects are actually becoming clients.

38:50 – When a strong prospect does not sign on the first call, Rob shares the follow-up system his team uses to keep the opportunity alive.

50:42 – Jay and Rob unpack several intake lessons firms can apply immediately, including missed-call recovery, call routing, AI, and the future of intake operations.

Resources Mentioned

Technology

• RingCentral (Business phone system) – https://www.ringcentral.com/
• Lead Docket (Legal intake and lead management software) – https://www.leaddocket.com/
• SmartAdvocate (Legal case management software) – https://www.smartadvocate.com/
• Juvo Leads (Law firm chat and lead intake service) – https://juvoleads.com/
• FasterOutcomes (Legal AI platform) – https://www.fasteroutcomes.com/
• Microsoft Copilot (AI assistant) – https://www.microsoft.com/copilot

About our Guest:

Rob Levine is a distinguished attorney, entrepreneur, and philanthropist best known as the founder of Rob Levine & Associates, a firm with over 25 years of experience advocating for personal injury, social security disability, and veterans’ disability clients. Known as “The Heavy Hitter®,” he has built a trusted reputation for delivering results and pursuing justice for the injured and disabled across Rhode Island, Massachusetts, and Connecticut, while handling disability cases nationwide. Beyond his law practice, Rob launched Rob Levine Legal Solutions, a support company that helps personal injury firms scale through services like medical record retrieval, international staffing and training, and growth-focused mastermind consulting.

A retired police officer, military police veteran, and paramedic, Rob’s impact extends far beyond the courtroom. Through the Rob Levine Gives Back program, he donates hundreds of Thanksgiving dinners, provides thousands of backpacks to children during his Family Fun Fest, and offers free Uber rides on holidays. In every pursuit—legal, entrepreneurial, and charitable—Rob brings relentless energy and commitment, helping clients, law firms, and communities thrive.

https://roblevinelegalsolutions.com/

[email protected]

About Jay Berkowitz:

Jay Berkowitz is a best-selling author and popular keynote speaker. Mr. Berkowitz managed marketing departments at: Coca-Cola, Sprint and McDonald's Restaurants, and he is the Founder and CEO of Ten Golden Rules, a digital marketing agency specialized in working with attorneys.

Mr. Berkowitz is the author of Advanced Internet Marketing for Law Firms, The Ten Golden Rules of Online Marketing and 10 Free Internet Marketing Strategies that went to #1 on Amazon. He is the host of the Ten Golden Rules of Internet Marketing Webinar and Podcast. He has been profiled by the Wall Street Journal, The Business Journals and FOX Business TV.

Mr. Berkowitz was selected for membership as a TITAN for Elite Digital Marketing Agencies, he is the recipient of a SOFIE Award for Most Effective use of Emerging Media, and a Special BERNAY’s Award.

Connect with Ten Golden Rules

Subscribe to Ten Golden Rules on YouTube

Check out our webinars on TenGoldenRules.com

Connect with Ten Golden Rules on LinkedIn

Follow Ten Golden Rules on Facebook

Connect with Jay Berkowitz on LinkedIn

Thanks for listening!

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Law firm growth creates a difficult operational challenge: every new case brings more calls, follow-ups, administrative work, and pressure on the people serving clients. Jay speaks with Matt McCarren of HelloCounsel.ai about how AI voice agents can help firms scale without sacrificing responsiveness or continually adding staff. Drawing on his experience building the operations of a multistate law firm, Matt explains how AI can answer overflow calls, route clients, complete intakes, update case files, pursue medical records, and handle repetitive outbound tasks within a firm’s existing technology. The conversation also examines where human empathy remains essential, why voicemail represents lost opportunities, and how legal technology may consolidate in the years ahead. The firms that thrive will use AI not simply to reduce work, but to build faster, more consistent, and more client-focused operations.

Key Topics

02:18 – How Matt’s experience learning every operational role helped him build scalable systems for a multistate law firm.

06:31 – Why HelloCounsel.ai works within a firm’s existing technology to automate low-value calls without adding another platform.

08:48 – How AI voice agents can identify callers, retrieve case information, route clients, document conversations, and escalate urgent concerns.

11:19 – Why growing firms struggle with receptionist and intake turnover, and how AI can scale call capacity without constant hiring and retraining.

12:41 – How replacing voicemail with immediate AI assistance can improve the client experience and recover potential cases that firms would otherwise miss.

16:15 – How firms can create customized call procedures and use AI for overflow coverage, after-hours intake, lead qualification, and contract delivery.

19:16 – How an AI agent completed more than half of 83 delayed medical-record tasks during its first week with an Alabama law firm.

22:15 – Why outbound AI agents can make simultaneous calls, research missing information, follow escalation rules, and document every action in the case file.

26:46 – Where AI may create the greatest operational advantages for high-volume, mass-tort, and rapidly growing law firms.

31:24 - Tune into The Golden Rapid Fire Questions

Resources Mentioned

Technology

• HelloCounsel.ai (AI voice agents for law firms) – https://www.hellocounsel.ai/
• SmartAdvocate (Legal case management software) – https://www.smartadvocate.com/
• Lead Docket (Legal intake and lead management software) – https://www.leaddocket.com/
• Filevine (Legal case management software) – https://www.filevine.com/
• Granola (AI meeting notes software) – https://www.granola.ai/
• DocuSign (Electronic signature software) – https://www.docusign.com/
• Zapier (Workflow automation software) – https://zapier.com/

Books

Good to Great – Jim Collins – https://a.co/d/0hN3X4rW

The Serendipity Mindset – Christian Busch – https://a.co/d/0epG2EuW

Podcasts

The School of Greatness – Lewis Howes – https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-school-of-greatness/id596047499

About our Guest:

Matt McCarren is the Director of Partnerships at HelloCounsel, where he helps law firms connect with innovative legal solutions that improve efficiency, strengthen operations, and support sustainable growth. He works closely with attorneys, legal technology providers, and industry leaders to build strategic partnerships that deliver real value to law firms.

Known for his collaborative approach and deep understanding of the legal industry, Matt is passionate about helping firms embrace innovation while staying focused on exceptional client service. He frequently works with law firm owners and legal professionals to identify opportunities for growth, streamline operations, and leverage technology to solve everyday challenges.

Through his work at HelloCounsel, Matt has become a trusted resource for firms looking to modernize their practice, build stronger partnerships, and position themselves for long-term success.

HelloCounsel.ai (AI voice agents for law firms) – https://www.hellocounsel.ai/

About Jay Berkowitz:

Jay Berkowitz is a best-selling author and popular keynote speaker. Mr. Berkowitz managed marketing departments at: Coca-Cola, Sprint and McDonald's Restaurants, and he is the Founder and CEO of Ten Golden Rules, a digital marketing agency specialized in working with attorneys.

Mr. Berkowitz is the author of Advanced Internet Marketing for Law Firms, The Ten Golden Rules of Online Marketing and 10 Free Internet Marketing Strategies that went to #1 on Amazon. He is the host of the Ten Golden Rules of Internet Marketing Webinar and Podcast. He has been profiled by the Wall Street Journal, The Business Journals and FOX Business TV.

Mr. Berkowitz was selected for membership as a TITAN for Elite Digital Marketing Agencies, he is the recipient of a SOFIE Award for Most Effective use of Emerging Media, and a Special BERNAY’s Award.

Connect with Ten Golden Rules

Subscribe to Ten Golden Rules on YouTube

Check out our webinars on TenGoldenRules.com

Connect with Ten Golden Rules on LinkedIn

Follow Ten Golden Rules on Facebook

Connect with Jay Berkowitz on LinkedIn

Thanks for listening!

Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page.

Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!

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A law firm’s strongest brand is not built through polished graphics alone. It grows from authenticity, trusted relationships, and a clear understanding of the clients the firm wants to serve. Jay sits down with Ilona Anderson, founder of Carpe Diem Law Firm, about leaving traditional practice, building multiple legal businesses, and creating a personal brand that reflects her interests, values, and entrepreneurial experience. Ilona explains why new firm owners must prioritize clients and revenue before logos and websites, how AI can accelerate execution without replacing human creativity, and why relationship-based networking produces better referrals than transactional promotion. She also shares practical employment-law safeguards and trademark considerations for business owners. Lawyers who lead with genuine relationships, consistent value, and a clear personal identity give clients and referral partners a reason to remember them, trust them, and choose them.

Key Topics

03:08 – How Ilona’s journey from Moscow to Alaska and Miami shaped her legal career, entrepreneurial outlook, and appreciation for opportunity.

07:20 – How an immigration residency requirement interrupted Ilona’s first legal job and led to international legal experience with KPMG in Moscow.

10:57 – Why becoming a parent prompted Ilona to leave traditional employment and help build a seven-figure employee rights litigation firm.

12:20 – How managing marketing, hiring, systems, procedures, and finances helped Ilona discover her interest in the business of law.

14:25 – Why many employment claims result from missing advice, documentation, time records, and workplace systems rather than deliberate misconduct.

17:03 – The three major employment-law risks businesses should address: contractor classification, exempt status, and unpaid overtime.

21:57 – How Carpe Diem Law Firm’s personal, creative branding helps prospective clients understand Ilona as a multidimensional person, not just a lawyer.

26:59 – Why AI can reduce the time required to create systems and marketing assets, but still requires personal judgment, creativity, and taste.

29:21 – Why attorneys starting firms should pursue clients and revenue before spending excessive time on websites, logos, and other branding details.

39:00 - Tune into The Golden Rapid Fire Questions

Resources Mentioned

Technology

• Claude (AI assistant) – https://www.anthropic.com/claude

Books

• Rich As F*ck: More Money Than You Know What to Do With – Amanda Frances – https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08QY57GFY

Podcasts

• The Ilona Anderson Podcast – Ilona Anderson – https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-ilona-anderson-podcast/id1829014920

Other

• ProVisors – https://www.provisors.com/
• Tony Robbins Business Mastery – https://www.tonyrobbins.com/events/business-mastery
• The Imperfectionist – https://www.oliverburkeman.com/the-imperfectionist

About our Guest:

Ilona Anderson is the founder of Carpe Diem Law Firm, where she represents employees in workplace disputes, advises businesses on employment law compliance, and helps entrepreneurs protect their brands through trademark registration.

With nearly two decades of legal experience, Ilona has worked at Akerman LLP, served as a Senior Legal Consultant at KPMG, and co-founded Saenz & Anderson, a boutique employment law firm recognized four times by Law Firm 500 as one of the nation's fastest-growing law firms. She has also been honored as a Super Lawyers Rising Star for five consecutive years and recognized by Lawdragon as a leading employment attorney.

Known for her practical, client-focused approach, Ilona combines legal expertise with a deep understanding of the challenges facing employees, startups, and growing businesses. She is passionate about protecting her clients' rights, helping businesses grow, and making the law approachable and accessible.

Carpe Diem Law Firm – https://carpediemlawfirm.com/

About Jay Berkowitz:

Jay Berkowitz is a best-selling author and popular keynote speaker. Mr. Berkowitz managed marketing departments at: Coca-Cola, Sprint and McDonald's Restaurants, and he is the Founder and CEO of Ten Golden Rules, a digital marketing agency specialized in working with attorneys.

Mr. Berkowitz is the author of Advanced Internet Marketing for Law Firms, The Ten Golden Rules of Online Marketing and 10 Free Internet Marketing Strategies that went to #1 on Amazon. He is the host of the Ten Golden Rules of Internet Marketing Webinar and Podcast. He has been profiled by the Wall Street Journal, The Business Journals and FOX Business TV.

Mr. Berkowitz was selected for membership as a TITAN for Elite Digital Marketing Agencies, he is the recipient of a SOFIE Award for Most Effective use of Emerging Media, and a Special BERNAY’s Award.

Connect with Ten Golden Rules

Subscribe to Ten Golden Rules on YouTube

Check out our webinars on TenGoldenRules.com

Connect with Ten Golden Rules on LinkedIn

Follow Ten Golden Rules on Facebook

Connect with Jay Berkowitz on LinkedIn

Thanks for listening!

Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page.

Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!

Subscribe to the podcast

If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can also subscribe in your favorite podcast app.

Leave us an Apple Podcast review

Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.