That Early Childhood Nerd

What if the words we use during toilet learning could help children feel capable, respected, and empowered? In this episode, host Heather Bernt-Santy talks with Jen Marcus, author of Potty Pedagogy: Guiding Children through Toileting with Language that Empowers about the role word choice and other considerations plays in one of the most personal parts of caring for children.

Find Jen's article here: https://www.naeyc.org/resources/pubs/vop/winter2025/guiding-children-through-toileting

Jen would love to hear from you! You can email her at [email protected].

Order Heather’s book, Using Schema Play Theory to Advocate for Free Play in Early Childhood, here: https://www.tcpress.com/products/using-schema-play-theory-to-advocate-for-free-play-in-early-childhood_9780807783177

Join our new Patreon community! For just $5 a month you can support all the Early Childhood Nerdwork podcasts AND join our Discord server to chat with the hosts and others who are working for children, their families, and their teachers: https://www.patreon.com/cw/EarlyChildhoodNerdworkbyThatEarlyChildhoodNerd

Thanks for listening!

I don’t know about you, but this Nerd loves Lisa Murphy!

So it was so fun to have her say, “I keep a list of topics and questions that I want to pod about!”

Here’s the first episode of what we’re calling “Lisa Murphy’s Grab Bag,” an ongoing series of episodes where Lisa brings that list to That Early Childhood Nerd.

Included in this conversation:

Lots of heart, lots of laughs, and lots of Lisa and Heather—enjoy!

Order the latest edition of Lisa’s PLAY book here: https://www.redleafpress.org/Lisa-Murphy-on-Play-3rd-Edition-The-Foundation-of-Childrens-Learning-P3195.aspx

Order Heather’s book, Using Schema Play Theory to Advocate for Free Play in Early Childhood, here: https://www.tcpress.com/products/using-schema-play-theory-to-advocate-for-free-play-in-early-childhood_9780807783177

Join our new Patreon community! For just $5 a month you can support all the Early Childhood Nerdwork podcasts AND join our Discord server to chat with the hosts and others who are working for children, their families, and their teachers: https://www.patreon.com/cw/EarlyChildhoodNerdworkbyThatEarlyChildhoodNerd

Thanks for listening!

One of host Heather Bernt-Santy’s favorite things is to find someone who takes something she is instinctively feeling and brilliantly putting that feeling into words. In this episode, her guest Amy Chiu has done just that.

Amy joins the show to talk about how easy it can be for early childhood practitioners to take the tools we have in our toolbox and use them as tactics for control or compliance. Listen to find out what she means when she says:

Find more of Amy’s work at www.theworkofplay.com

Order Heather’s book, Using Schema Play Theory to Advocate for Free Play in Early Childhood, here: https://www.tcpress.com/products/using-schema-play-theory-to-advocate-for-free-play-in-early-childhood_9780807783177

Join our new Patreon community! For just $5 a month you can support all the Early Childhood Nerdwork podcasts AND join our Discord server to chat with the hosts and others who are working for children, their families, and their teachers: https://www.patreon.com/cw/EarlyChildhoodNerdworkbyThatEarlyChildhoodNerd

Thanks for listening!

Could child developmental theories be ageist, encouraging us to see only children’s deficits?

This week host Heather Bernt-Santy discusses this question with Dr. Jennifer Fane, co-author of the book The Sociology of Early Childhood: Young Children’s Lives and Worlds.

The conversation begins with this quote from the book: “We believe that child development theories are often ageist, because they carry an implicit assumption that we begin life as deficient, and get better, wiser, and more capable as we get older. Such theories reassure adults that they are capable, but are often very damaging to young children, who are left feeling incapable, and so encourage passivity and helplessness. Many of these developmental theories have led to a deficit approach to education, in which educators spend most of their time focusing on what young children cannot do (by using developmental checklists) rather than what they enjoy or do well. A less ageist perspective suggests babies enter the world capable of absorbing knowledge and drawing conclusions at a rapid pace. As we age, we acquire more knowledge and experience, but we also slow in the rate we can learn, and become more limited in our creativity and curiosity.”

Find the book here: https://a.co/d/0dEf1MdP

Find more of Dr. Fane’s work here: https://www.signal49.ca/team-members/jennifer-fane/

Order Heather’s book, Using Schema Play Theory to Advocate for Free Play in Early Childhood, here: https://www.tcpress.com/products/using-schema-play-theory-to-advocate-for-free-play-in-early-childhood_9780807783177

Join our new Patreon community! For just $5 a month you can support all the Early Childhood Nerdwork podcasts AND join our Discord server to chat with the hosts and others who are working for children, their families, and their teachers: https://www.patreon.com/cw/EarlyChildhoodNerdworkbyThatEarlyChildhoodNerd

Thanks for listening!

In a 2026 article co-written with Brianne Kramer and Clint Broadbent, Denisha Jones explores the idea of moral injury in our work in the early childhood profession, writing, ‘Many teachers view their profession as a calling, so they take their work as a personal mission to educate students. Because of this, it is a moral affront to teachers to face daily ‘circumstances that challenge their moral conscience, vocational identity, and the values that got them into teaching in the first place’ (Keefe-Perry, 2018). Santoro (2011) theorized about moral injury by asking ‘What happens when experienced teachers who are fueled by the moral dimension of teaching find they can no longer access the moral rewards embedded in their work?’ Santoro goes on to (2011) argue the moral and ethical dimensions of teaching involve both required and prohibited practices (moral dimensions) and teachers' recognition that their work is in service to a better world (ethical dimensions). Often these are inseparable so that if a teacher is repeatedly forced to do something that they believe is harmful to their students, they may feel they are bad at their job or their job is bad for the world (Santoro, 2011). This creates a moral injury that plagues teachers daily.”

In our conversation in this episode, Denisha defines moral injury and explains how it may be more useful to reframe our current “burnout” conversation as moral injury.

Read The Intensification of Moral Injury in Teachers During the Pandemic here: https://ices.library.ubc.ca/index.php/workplace/article/view/187167

Check out Denisha’s new project the Play Science Institute here: https://playscience.org/

Order Heather’s book, Using Schema Play Theory to Advocate for Free Play in Early Childhood, here: https://www.tcpress.com/products/using-schema-play-theory-to-advocate-for-free-play-in-early-childhood_9780807783177

Join our new Patreon community! For just $5 a month you can support all the Early Childhood Nerdwork podcasts AND join our Discord server to chat with the hosts and others who are working for children, their families, and their teachers: https://www.patreon.com/cw/EarlyChildhoodNerdworkbyThatEarlyChildhoodNerd

Thanks for listening!

In this episode, host Heather Bernt-Santy is joined by Kylie Cooper, Jamie Bonczyk, and Lucy Recio to discuss their recent Exchange article titled Reclaiming Our Legacy of Imagining and Building Worlds: Countering Fascism. 

Jamie shares: 

The article discussed in this episode grew out of a conversation that began in January 2025. Listeners can follow the evolution of these ideas through the following articles from Exchange Magazine:

Embodied Advocacy

Taking Stock: Is Personal Grief the Invisible Companion Informing How You Show Up?

What’s at Stake? Professional Loss and Grief in Early Care and Education Workplaces

Taking Action: Channeling Collective Grief Towards Social Justice and Change

To explore these articles and additional resources, begin a two-week free trial of Exchange Press or receive 50% off an Exchange Community Membership with the promotional code FRIEND50.

Connect with Jamie Bonczyk at LinkedIn and Instagram

Find Lucy here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lucyrecio/

Find more about Kylie and her work here: https://www.riseearlylearningcenter.org/

And find the article here: https://hub.exchangepress.com/articles-on-demand/86844/

Order Heather’s book, Using Schema Play Theory to Advocate for Free Play in Early Childhood, here: https://www.tcpress.com/products/using-schema-play-theory-to-advocate-for-free-play-in-early-childhood_9780807783177

Join our new Patreon community! For just $5 a month you can support all the Early Childhood Nerdwork podcasts AND join our Discord server to chat with the hosts and others who are working for children, their families, and their teachers: https://www.patreon.com/cw/EarlyChildhoodNerdworkbyThatEarlyChildhoodNerd

Thanks for listening!

This week, our guest is Amy Reyes-Hauff, ECE consultant and outdoor play advocate, who recently published the book Why Did They Do That? It's Not a Behavior Problem, It's a Biological Reaction. 

Why Did They Do That reframes the tumultuous preschool years (3-5) as a period of neurological renovation rather than a series of behavior problems. By explaining the biological gap between the fully developed, emotional "downstairs brain" (the amygdala) and the under-construction, logical "upstairs brain" (the prefrontal cortex).

Order Amy's book here: https://a.co/d/0iXTs4sy

Order Heather’s book, Using Schema Play Theory to Advocate for Free Play in Early Childhood, here: https://www.tcpress.com/products/using-schema-play-theory-to-advocate-for-free-play-in-early-childhood_9780807783177

Join our new Patreon community! For just $5 a month you can support all the Early Childhood Nerdwork podcasts AND join our Discord server to chat with the hosts and others who are working for children, their families, and their teachers: https://www.patreon.com/cw/EarlyChildhoodNerdworkbyThatEarlyChildhoodNerd

Thanks for listening!

What is the adult's role if children are allowed to "just play?" It's a question host Heather Bernt-Santy hears often as she talks with early childhood practitioners. Thank goodness Suzanne Axelsson has done a lot of thinking and writing about it!

In a post in her Substack, Suzanne writes about play and adult roles. When is it play and what can we do to support it? How can we learn to be clear and authentic about what is true play and adult attempts at teaching? 

Read the post here: https://suzanneaxelsson.substack.com/p/view-on-play-and-adult-roles

Order Heather’s book, Using Schema Play Theory to Advocate for Free Play in Early Childhood, here: https://www.tcpress.com/products/using-schema-play-theory-to-advocate-for-free-play-in-early-childhood_9780807783177

Join our new Patreon community! For just $5 a month you can support all the Early Childhood Nerdwork podcasts AND join our Discord server to chat with the hosts and others who are working for children, their families, and their teachers: https://www.patreon.com/cw/EarlyChildhoodNerdworkbyThatEarlyChildhoodNerd

Thanks for listening!

Early childhood consultant and author Jacky Howell is this week's Guest Nerd and she's here to talk to host Heather Bernt-Santy about the empathy and kindness she knows young children are capable of. 

The conversation begins with a quote from one of Jacky's heroes, Jane Goodall: 

"You cannot get through a single day without having an impact on the world around you. What you do makes a difference, and you have to decide what kind of difference you want to make."

Jacky and her colleagues Makai Kellogg, Magy Youssef, and Sabina Zeffler shared their stories of children's kindness and empathy in their book Reflection, Perspecive Taking, and Social Justice: Stories of Empathy and Kindness in the Early Childhood Classroom. 

Order their book here: https://www.redleafpress.org/Reflection-Perspective-Taking-and-Social-Justice-e-book-Stories-of-Empathy-and-Kindness-in-the-Early-Childhood-Classroom-P3055.aspx

Order Heather’s book, Using Schema Play Theory to Advocate for Free Play in Early Childhood, here: https://www.tcpress.com/products/using-schema-play-theory-to-advocate-for-free-play-in-early-childhood_9780807783177

Join our new Patreon community! For just $5 a month you can support all the Early Childhood Nerdwork podcasts AND join our Discord server to chat with the hosts and others who are working for children, their families, and their teachers: https://www.patreon.com/cw/EarlyChildhoodNerdworkbyThatEarlyChildhoodNerd

Thanks for listening!

"What would early childhood education look like if young children were recognized as already whole human beings?" asks child liberation scholar Em Clark in her recently published article The Already Whole Child: Reconceptualizing Care and Sanctuary through Childism." 

Join host Heather Bernt-Santy as she talks with Em Clark about the ways that the dominant discourse in early childhood education "position children as beings-in-progress, whose humanity is contingent on their movement toward normative adulthood." 

What if we let children be present-tense human beings instead of future kindergartners, future test-takers, future workers, future economic contributors? 

You can access the article here: https://iccpsonlinejournal.org/index.php/childhoods/article/view/347

Find more of her liberation work here: https://liberatingchildhood.org/

Order Heather’s book, Using Schema Play Theory to Advocate for Free Play in Early Childhood, here: https://www.tcpress.com/products/using-schema-play-theory-to-advocate-for-free-play-in-early-childhood_9780807783177

Join our new Patreon community! For just $5 a month you can support all the Early Childhood Nerdwork podcasts AND join our Discord server to chat with the hosts and others who are working for children, their families, and their teachers: https://www.patreon.com/cw/EarlyChildhoodNerdworkbyThatEarlyChildhoodNerd

Thanks for listening!