Caleb Swartz started racing cyclocross when he was eight years old, but the discipline has been dwindling in the US since the 2010s, and the writing has been on the wall for any American racers wanting to make a sustainable career from it. Last year, Caleb started branching out into a few gravel events just to see where it would take him, and he ended up with two standout performances at Grand Prix races — 11th at Little Sugar and 6th at Big Sugar. This year, he’s going all-in as one of the new faces on the GP roster. 

Payson sat down with Caleb after a surprise encounter in Girona to talk about how he’s navigating training for a season unlike any he’s ever done, how his years of hardscrabble work behind the scenes as a privateer have set him up for this moment, and the tough industry realities that have led him to transition away from cyclocross. They also talk about his collegiate racing days at Marian, graduating during the pandemic, and the high-speed crash he had at Big Sugar that didn’t stop him from nearly making the podium.

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You might have heard that Allied just released a new feather-light trail bike this week. The FITZ is new territory for the brand, so it seemed like a good opportunity to bring in Allied’s CEO Drew Medlock and Director of Product and Engineering Sam Pickman to talk about why they decided to add a trail bike to their lineup and what makes this one so unique. They discuss the nitty-gritty specs, of course, as well as the decision-making process and behind-the-scenes debates that went into it, but they also talk about their individual journeys with the bike, from defying the aging process to Payson's religious experience on a trail he's ridden countless times. 

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Most riders spend their first year in the Elite ranks just trying to find their feet, but Riley Amos was determined to be different. He had good reason for it. Not only did he have a dominant final season as a U23 in 2024, but he also finished 7th at the Paris Olympics, the highest an American male has ever finished in the Olympic XC race. Looking back on his mindset coming into 2025, though, he admits that he might have pushed himself a little too hard. 

Riley sat down with Payson in Girona this week to talk about how overtraining and back pain led to a somewhat disappointing 2025 and how observing fellow riders like Nino Schurter and Chris Blevins has changed his entire approach this year. Then, they get nerdy about product testing, specifically Riley’s relationship with Trek product development grandmaster Travis Brown and his years-long obsession with suspension. 

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Haley Smith has been on one factory team or another since she was in her teens. In that time, she spent a decade as a World Cup XC racer, went to the 2021 Olympics, and won the inaugural round of the Life Time Grand Prix. But this year, she’s embarking on a new chapter as a privateer. She’s also doing it while completing her PhD. 

Haley caught up with Payson in Girona this week to talk about the challenges and opportunities of privateering, including why it was the best way forward for her and how she’s pieced together her program. She also talks about the all-star coach she’s been working with since November and why she felt that now was the time to continue her academic work. 

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Mads Würtz Schmidt might be a newcomer to gravel, but he’s already established himself as one of the best in the world. The 31-year-old Danish rider went all in on the sport last year with little financial support and ended up winning the Traka, becoming the European Gravel Champion, and snagging fourth at Unbound. This year, he’ll be racing alongside Keegan Swenson and Matt Beers as part of the new Specialized off-road team. 

Mads joined Payson in Girona to talk about his reluctant departure from the WorldTour, how becoming a dad has changed everything, and why he prefers doing heat training to altitude training. They also talk about his dominance as a junior and U23 rider, the low point in 2022 when he thought about quitting cycling altogether, and how he thinks the introduction of teams into gravel (including Specialized Off-road) will change the sport. 

Thank you to TrainingPeaks for sponsoring this episode. Go to TrainingPeaks.com/withpace and use code DREAM20 for 20% off TrainingPeaks Premium. 

Thanks also to Osprey.com for sponsoring this episode. Head to their website to shop last year’s collection for up to 40% off.

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We're back from our holiday break, and Payson and Nichole are here to recap a packed 2025. They offer a peek behind the curtain at their year, from the emotional toll of Payson's broken hip last spring to finally offloading one of the worst investments of all time. They also answer listener questions about Nichole's first year of structured training and racing, their favorite off the bike accomplishments of the year, and coffee.

This episode is sponsored by TrainingPeaks. Visit trainingpeaks.com/withpace to sign up now.

This episode is also supported by Osprey. Visit Osprey.com to learn more.

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Sarah Sturm is back for another monthly catch-up, and this time, she and Payson are talking gym routines. How much lifting is too much? Should you be lifting heavy or doing high reps? And how bad is it for Sarah’s cycling career that she can’t do toes to bar? Then, they do their Privateer Parts segment in which Payson tries to figure out what is in the box that was addressed to him but which definitely wasn’t meant for him.

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When Kevin Vermaak left his job in IT to found a brand-new type of bike race, he had no idea how much money he’d lose up front or how successful the resulting event would become. 20 years in, and the Cape Epic is one of the most famous bike races in the world. After leaving it behind in 2016, Kevin began mulling over a new idea — a gravel stage race that explored a completely different part of South Africa. This year, he launched Gravel Burn, a seven-day event in the Great Karoo. It took years for Cape Epic to grow into what it is today, but Gravel Burn attracted some pretty fierce competition from year one, including Tom Pidcock, Ashleigh Moolman-Pasio, Matt Beers, and Lauren Stephens. 

In this episode, Kevin tells Payson about how a series of globe-trotting adventures in the early 2000s inspired him to start the Cape Epic, why he thinks Gravel Burn has the potential to be even bigger, and the logistics of planning such a remote, multi-day event. He talks about the things he hopes to do better next year, why he’s actually glad that the infamous stage six of the race had to be neutralized, and why he needed nearly twice as many staff members as there were race participants in order to pull the whole thing off.

This episode was brought to you by TrainingPeaks and Osprey. 

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Scott Bowden set out two weeks ago to tackle a 580km route across Tasmania. His goal was to beat Payson’s FKT from 2021, but most importantly, he just wanted to finish. With 11,000 meters of elevation, multiple river crossings, all types of weather, and punishing terrain, the route is brutal to say the least, and when Scott found himself struggling to keep his body temperature, he thought about pulling the plug. In the end, he did finish, and he joins Payson to swap war stories. 

Before discussing the ride, however, they talk about how Scott got there in the first place. He began his cycling career in XC, and even competed in the Olympics in 2016. After transitioning to pro road racing in Europe, however, his career was cut short by several factors caused by the pandemic. After moving back home to Tassie, he started a new chapter, both on the bike and off. 

This episode is brought to you by MAAP, TrainingPeaks, and Osprey. 

Watch Payson's new film Crossings: New Zealand here.

Watch Crossing Tasmania here. 

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Leni Carrillo, a self-proclaimed "gravel normie" from San Antonio, Texas is the genius behind the HolySpiritofGravel meme account on Instagram. With her lighthearted and extremely specific takes on the world of gravel racing, she brings some much needed levity to a sport that can take itself pretty seriously. In doing so, she's earned a passionate fanbase. Payson caught up with Leni for a little spin and chat the day before the final round of the Life Time Grand Prix, the Big Sugar Classic, to talk about how she got interested in gravel racing, where she gets her best ideas, and what she really thinks about the pros.

You can watch this conversation on Youtube here.

This episode is sponsored by TrainingPeaks. Go to trainingpeaks.com/withpace and use code CYBER2025 to get 25% off TrainingPeaks Premium before December 1. 

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