Where Do We Go From Here?

In this episode, Katherine Spearing discusses her experiences with spiritual abuse, particularly within the contexts of purity culture and the Christian Patriarchy Movement. She shares insights on how these environments shape beliefs about gender roles, emotional labor, and personal values. The conversation explores the dynamics of cult-like behavior in religious communities, the importance of consent, and the journey towards healing from spiritual trauma. Katherine emphasizes the need for diverse communities and the significance of understanding one's own emotions as a pathway to recovery.

Takeaways:

· Many churches perpetuate patriarchal values under the guise of spirituality.

· Spiritual abuse often uses religious texts to control behavior.

· Purity culture is overt spiritual abuse that can lead to significant emotional and psychological harm.

· Women are often conditioned to prioritize perfection over bravery.

· Emotional labor disproportionately falls on women, even in egalitarian settings.

· Spiritual bypassing can invalidate genuine feelings of grief and sadness.

· Differentiation of feelings is crucial for healthy relationships.

· Healing from spiritual abuse requires understanding personal values and emotions.

· Diverse communities provide essential support for recovery from spiritual trauma.

Katherine has a Masters of religion and culture. She grew up in an extreme Christian patriarchal movement (a cult) and has worked for several evangelical churches. After leaving spiritually abusive workplaces, she went on to found Tears of Eden, a nonprofit supporting survivors of Spiritual Abuse, producing and hosting its groundbreaking affiliate podcast Uncertain, which pioneered pivotal conversations around Spiritual Abuse and has been quoted in scholarly articles, seminary papers, and PhD dissertations. Her book, A Thousand Tiny Papercuts was published in October 2025.

Find Katherine on Instagram: @katherinespearing & @tearsofedenofficial

And websites: www.katherinespearing.com & www.tearsofeden.org

Jess' Archive Bundles (available until 28 February 2026): • The Jess and Devi Show (2021–2025) – $30 • The Jess and Friends Show (2025) – $10 Discounts available for paid and free Patreon members.

This episode marks the final chapter of Where Do We Go From Here? hosted by Jess, and it's centred on a deeply personal, wide-ranging conversation with long-time co-host and author Eady Jay.

At the heart of the episode is an interview about Eady's latest book, Reconstructing Sexual Ethics, a part-memoir, part-theological work that traces her journey from growing up in Australian evangelical purity culture to reimagining a Christian sexual ethic shaped by grace, consent, dignity, and justice.

The conversation moves fluidly between personal story and theological reflection, including:

• Eady's early public commitment to abstinence and the "virgin vs vixen" binary she was placed into as a teenager

• How purity culture shaped desire, shame, mental health, and expectations around marriage

• Why deconstruction alone isn't enough, and what reconstruction actually requires

• The vulnerability and risk of speaking about sex personally, not just abstractly

• Reframing Christian sexual ethics around consent, love, and lived experience

• Navigating progressive and conservative tensions without collapsing into certainty

The episode also includes the regular Thoughts & Prayers segments:

• Unsolicited Advice for Christians on Reddit, including a candid discussion about "body count," virginity, and the long shadow of purity culture

• A closing Prayer of the People, holding space for grief, justice, transition, and hope

This episode is both a farewell and a handover, honouring what this space has held while opening the door to what comes next.

The Jess and Devi Show Bundle - $30USD (++ on iOS)

The Jess and Friends Show Bundle - $10USD (++ on iOS)

If you're looking for discounts as a previous Patreon member, send a request via email to: [email protected]

• Eady Jay's website and bio: https://evangelicaldeconstructionjourney.com

• Reconstructing Sexual Ethics (book): https://evangelicaldeconstructionjourney.com

• Patreon archive bundles: https://www.patreon.com/wheredowegopod/collections

• Making Biblical Womanhood by Beth Allison Barr (mentioned in discussion)

• Sheila Wray Gregoire's work on consent and arousal non-concordance (referenced)

If this episode brings things up for you, you're not alone, and help is available. Healing support does not require certainty, a clear memory, or a particular story. You deserve care simply because something hurt you. Immediate and confidential support:

RAINN (Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network) Call 800-656-HOPE (4673) Chat online at rainn.org Available 24/7. Free, confidential, and anonymous.

In this special Ask Jess Anything episode of Where Do We Go From Here?, Jess opens the vault and shares one of the most personal conversations from behind the Patreon paywall.

As Jess prepares to step away from the podcast she founded, she reflects honestly on purity culture, sex, faith, parenting, creative burnout, and what it's like to leave a space you helped build. Listeners submitted their questions with no topic off-limits, and Jess answers them with the clarity, nuance, and vulnerability that has defined the show for the past five years.

In this episode, Jess talks about why she's stepping back from podcasting, the emotional and physical toll of documentary filmmaking, her experience making I Survived I Kissed Dating Goodbye, and her complicated relationship with Joshua Harris and the film's legacy. She also shares how purity culture did (and didn't) shape her marriage and sex life, how her views shifted after her first kiss and first sexual experiences, and how she's thinking about consent, bodies, and faith as a parent to young twins.

Jess also reflects on content creation, Patreon, monetisation, and the tension between integrity and algorithms in today's creator economy. This episode serves as both a thank-you to longtime listeners and a thoughtful handover as EDJ steps into the future of the podcast.

Some sections of this episode have been intentionally edited for public release, with a small number of moments remaining exclusive to Patreon for personal safety.

• Why Jess is stepping away from Where Do We Go From Here?

• What an "Ask Me Anything" revealed about her deconstruction journey

• Purity culture, sex, shame, and agency

• First kisses, first sex, and dismantling fear-based narratives

• Parenting without purity culture

• Creative burnout, documentary filmmaking, and boundaries

• Patreon, paywalls, and the realities of independent podcasting

• What happens to the archive and how to access it for a limited time

If you've been with the podcast for a short time or a long time, this episode is a moment of reflection, closure, and gratitude.

🎧 Note: A limited-time archive of previously paywalled episodes is currently available via Patreon before it is permanently removed.

Link for Collections:

Jess & Devi Show - $30USD

Jess & Friends Show - $10USD

In this episode of Where Do We Go From Here?, Jess sits down with Erin Moon, writer, podcaster, and author of I've Got Questions, for a deeply honest conversation about purity culture, faith deconstruction, curiosity, and what it looks like to stay tethered to God while letting certainty fall away.

Erin reflects on growing up fully immersed in evangelical purity culture, including the long-term impact it had on her body, marriage, and sense of self. She shares candidly about why deconstructing purity culture can take decades, how shame keeps so many people silent, and why asking questions is not a failure of faith but an expression of it.

Together, Jess and Erin explore why curiosity was discouraged in many evangelical spaces, how political power and Christian nationalism accelerated Erin's own deconstruction, and what it means to be "suspicious of certainty" while still loving scripture. Erin also discusses her work as Resident Bible Scholar on Faith Adjacent, the shift from The Bible Binge, and why humour, humility, and community matter when navigating heavy theological terrain.

This episode is for anyone who feels unmoored by faith questions, is re-examining purity culture, or is trying to stay connected to God without suppressing their doubts. It's also for parents, partners, and loved ones who want to better understand the deconstruction journeys happening around them.

• Growing up "all in" on purity culture and its long-term effects

• Why sexual shame doesn't magically disappear after marriage

• How asking questions can deepen faith rather than destroy it

• The role of politics and power in evangelical disillusionment

• Being curious without demanding certainty

• Reading scripture with humility and openness

• Why community matters, both online and in real life

• Erin's book I've Got Questions and the companion guided journal

• Erin Moon's website: https://www.erinhmoon.com

• I've Got Questions by Erin Moon: https://www.erinhmoon.com/book

• I've Got Questions: Guided Journal: https://www.erinhmoon.com/journal

• Faith Adjacent podcast: https://faithadjacentpod.com

If you've ever felt afraid to ask questions about faith, sexuality, scripture, or God, this conversation offers permission, honesty, and hope.

What happens when algorithms profit from our outrage?

In this episode of No Hard Feelings, Jess is joined by Emily and Kristen to unpack a piece of viral rage bait that sparked intense online reactions around dating, loneliness, and gender. Using a widely shared clip from a Diary of a CEOinterview as a case study, the hosts slow the conversation down and ask a different set of questions.

Rather than reacting, blaming, or feeding the algorithm, they practice what they call their No Hard Feelings muscle:

• noticing emotional responses without immediately responding

• fact-checking claims and statistics

• zooming out to full context

• questioning binaries like men vs women, single vs partnered

• and sitting with nuance instead of certainty

The conversation explores how statistics can be used as authority without accountability, how loneliness is often conflated with relationship status, and why phrases like "childless women" are emotionally loaded and culturally shaming. The hosts challenge the idea that romantic partnership is the primary solution to loneliness and ask whether community, friendship, and social structures deserve more attention.

They also examine how social media incentives reward division, why rage bait spreads so effectively, and how engagement itself becomes a vote for more of the same content. Along the way, they discuss dating apps, emotional labour, shifting gender expectations, declining birth rates, and the difference between correlation and causation when it comes to health outcomes and relationships.

This episode is not about defending or cancelling anyone. It's about learning how to engage thoughtfully in a culture that thrives on outrage, and asking what kind of social, economic, and relational conditions actually make connection feel safe and chosen.

If you've ever felt angry, defensive, or exhausted after watching a viral clip about dating or gender, this episode invites you to pause, breathe, and think again.

In this episode of Where Do We Go From Here?, Jess is joined by scholar and author Sara Moslener to discuss her latest book, After Purity, and the deeper political, racial, and theological forces behind evangelical purity culture.

Sara argues that purity culture was never only about sex. It was about power. Drawing on years of academic research and firsthand stories from the After Purity Project, she traces how purity culture trained white women to equate obedience, self-denial, and innocence with moral authority, patriotism, and faithfulness. These ideals, she explains, are inseparable from Christian nationalism, white supremacy, and the politics of "innocence" in the United States.

Together, Jess and Sara unpack how purity culture relied on the myth of innocence while simultaneously hyper-sexualising girls and young women. They explore how evangelical movements claimed their work was "not political" while actively shaping national policy, sexual norms, and racial hierarchies. The conversation also examines the limits of white feminism, the problem of disembodiment, and why healing from purity culture requires more than reclaiming sexuality alone.

This episode is for listeners who want to understand why purity culture caused so much harm, how it intersected with race and power, and what it means to reckon honestly with faith, feminism, and national identity after deconstruction.

Topics include:

• Purity culture as a political and racial project

• Innocence, power, and Christian nationalism

• White feminism and its limits

• Disembodiment and bodily shame

• Evangelicalism, race, and sexual ethics

• The After Purity Project and lived experience

Core Readings Referenced in This Episode

• After Purity — Sara Moslener

• Pure — Linda Kay Klein

• Making Chastity Sexy — Christine J. Gardner

• Incidents in the Life of a Slave Girl — Harriet Jacobs

• White Tears / Brown Scars — Ruby Hamad

• The Myth of Colorblind Christians — Jemar Tisby

In this episode of Thoughts & Prayers, Jess and EDJ reflect on the year that's been and wade into some of the most tender questions facing Christians who are rethinking faith, sex, and dating after purity culture.

Drawing from listener submissions and Christian Reddit threads, they explore what happens when the old rules no longer work. How do you choose a partner without a checklist? What does consent look like in Christian dating? Is celibacy still meaningful if it's chosen freely rather than enforced by shame? And how do you stay anchored in faith while deconstructing long-held beliefs?

The conversation moves between personal stories, cultural critique, and pastoral honesty. Jess and EDJ unpack how purity culture shaped women's bodies, desire, and self-worth, including the overlap between sexual repression and diet culture, modesty, and shrinking oneself to feel "safe." They talk candidly about dating privilege, power dynamics in church spaces, and why "waiting for the right one" can sometimes be a way of avoiding real connection.

The episode also addresses grief and solidarity in the wake of violence, reflecting on the Bondi attack and the courage and humanity displayed in its aftermath. As always, Thoughts & Prayers closes with a communal prayer, holding space for listeners wherever they find themselves on their faith journey.

This episode is for anyone navigating Christian dating after purity culture, wrestling with deconstruction without wanting to lose their faith, or trying to rebuild a sexual ethic rooted in consent, agency, and love rather than fear.

Topics include:

• Christian dating after purity culture

• Consent, agency, and sexual ethics

• Celibacy as choice vs obligation

• Deconstruction without deconversion

• Dating privilege and power in church spaces

• Purity culture, diet culture, and women's bodies

• Faith, grief, and communal prayer

This Christmas Eve, we're unwrapping a special gift for everyone.

Normally, our Rom-Com Recaps are exclusive to our Patreon partners, but for December we're sharing this one on the main feed as a thank-you and a holiday treat.

In this episode, Jess is joined by Bri from our Patreon community to recap and unpack Happiest Season. The 2020 holiday rom-com starring Kristen Stewart and Mackenzie Davis set out to be a festive queer love story, but left many viewers divided.

We dive into:

• The central relationship between Abby and Harper and why it frustrated us more than it warmed our hearts

• The emotional cost of closeting a partner and where consent breaks down

• Why Dan Levy's character delivers the most honest moment in the entire film

• The chemistry that arguably should have changed the ending

• Whether this movie was made for queer audiences or about them

• How family pressure, image management, and unspoken expectations shape holiday dynamics

This conversation goes beyond a simple movie review. We talk honestly about coming out, family roles, emotional labour, and why "happily ever after" sometimes feels unearned.

If you love rom-coms, have complicated feelings about Christmas, or have ever watched a holiday movie and thought "wait… this isn't actually okay," this episode is for you.

🎁 A Christmas gift from us to you. Enjoy.

For access to the RomCom Recap of Saved! simply sign up as a free or paid member at patreon.com/wheredowegopod

Summary: In this episode of No Hard Feelings, Jess, Emily, and Kristen take on one of the most timeless questions for Christians navigating doubt and deconstruction: Can you question your beliefs without losing your faith?

Jess shares reflections from making I Survived I Kissed Dating Goodbye with Joshua Harris and a recent conversation with her boss who's struggling not to "throw the baby out with the bathwater." Emily walks us through James Fowler's Stages of Faith Development and Kohlberg's Moral Development, offering a developmental lens for understanding why deconstruction can actually be a sign of growth rather than loss. Kristen brings warmth and honesty to the emotional fallout of leaving evangelical spaces, exploring how community, inclusion, and re-reading Scripture through a "Jesus lens" can help rebuild faith on new foundations.

Together, the trio asks: What is the "baby" we're trying to keep? Is it Jesus? Love? Mystery? The creeds? And can we learn to hold uncertainty as a form of faith itself?

Timestamps: 00:00 — Intro: What even is the baby and the bathwater? 04:00 — Jess on Joshua Harris, Josephine Butler, and modern deconstruction 13:00 — Emily explains Fowler's Stages of Faith and what they reveal about deconstruction 30:00 — Where we are now: bouncing between Stage 4 and 5 35:00 — Kristen's story of leaving church and finding belonging again 48:00 — So what is the baby? Defining what's worth holding onto 57:00 — Ancient creeds, mystery, and rediscovering Jesus 1:02:00 — Closing reflections: curiosity, courage, and faith that grows up

Links Mentioned:

• I Survived I Kissed Dating Goodbye documentary

• James Fowler, Stages of Faith (1981) https://www.ngumc.org/files/fileslibrary/james+fowlers+stages+of+faith.pdf

• "Religious Deconstruction: The Process, Themes, and Psychosocial Dynamics…" (academic dissertation) https://www.proquest.com/openview/ba405ff9b1a90e17f43a39de1ddf40b3/1?pq-origsite=gscholar&cbl=18750&diss=y

• Josephine Butler biography (When Courage Calls by Sarah C. Williams)

• Patreon community: patreon.com/wheredowegopod

Keywords for SEO: faith deconstruction, Fowler stages of faith, Joshua Harris, evangelical deconstruction, progressive Christianity, exvangelical podcast, Christian faith development, Kohlberg moral development, losing faith, reconstructing faith, deconstruction without deconversion, No Hard Feelings podcast

In this special interview, EDJ sits down with writer and cultural critic Anna Rollins, author of Famished, to talk about the haunting overlap between purity culture, diet culture, and the ways women learn to shrink themselves — in body, desire, and voice.

With honesty and nuance, Anna speaks about her own story, the systems that shaped her, and the practices she's now reclaiming. This is an episode for anyone who grew up equating holiness with self-erasure, or who has ever sensed that controlling the body is often a proxy for controlling sexuality, worthiness, and belonging.

In this conversation, we explore:

✨ The shared logic between purity culture and diet culture — and why both teach women that their bodies are a threat ✨ How thinness, obedience, and "good girl" energy become spiritualised ✨ Anna's journey through disordered eating and recovery ✨ Why evangelical spaces often reward self-denial but punish desire ✨ The shame-fear cycle that forms when food, sex, and worth collapse into each other ✨ How Anna rebuilt a relationship with her body, appetite, and autonomy ✨ The theological stories that keep harmful systems alive — and the better ones that can replace them

EDJ and Anna also dig into the deeper question this podcast always circles back to: What happens when we stop starving ourselves — physically, spiritually, and emotionally — and start living as whole people?

⚠️ Content warning: This episode includes discussion of diet culture, disordered eating, and a reference to sexual assault. Take care of yourself as you listen.