
Sign up to save your podcasts
Or


In this episode I interview behavioral economist Melina Palmer. We chat about how behavioral economics can enhance sales strategies using techniques like price anchoring and framing.
The episode also tackles ethical considerations and the psychological principles behind decision-making. Melina shares actionable insights to help course creators, membership owners, and coaches improve their business communication and ultimately boost sales.
If you enjoyed this episode then please feel free to go and share it on your social media or head over to
Apple podcasts
or
Spotify
and give me a review, I would be so very grateful.
Connect with Melina on
www.thebrainybusiness.com
,
LinkedIn (Melina)
,
LinkedIn (The Brainy Business)
,
,
YouTube
,
,
Connect with Teresa on
Website
,
The Club
,
Sign up to Teresa's email list
,
,
,
or
Teresa:
What is behavioral economics and why on earth should you care? Well, the short answer is because it helps you communicate better to your customers and ultimately helps you to help them make a buying decision. My guest today is a behavioral economist and she shares the most amazing tools and strategies and just generally super smart stuff that we can do in our businesses, such as things like price anchoring and framing that will help us help our customers make that buying decision.
Melina:
I am doing fantastic. Thank you. Glad to be here.
Teresa:
I am very happy for you to be here. It's actually now in the UK while we're recording this, it's about coming up to 6pm. And normally by this point, I'd be like, hanging would be the official term. I'd be like, okay, we're nearly done. But honestly, Out of all the calls I've had [00:05:00] today, you are the one I've been looking forward to the most.
Melina:
Aww, well, thank you. Delighted, honored to hear it. And I know, yeah, end of the day interview too, especially depending on what you've been doing through the day. It's like bringing the energy for the interview is, is a thing. I get it. So.
Teresa:
Yeah. Yeah. Which I somehow managed to have this good, and I guess When you do a job like I do, where you do have to be on camera, when I come off though, I'm great when I'm on, and when I come off it's like, don't speak to me.
Melina:
Yes, other than, you know, a field that needs some rebranding, perhaps, but that's not really the
Teresa:
Maybe.
Melina:
So essentially, I just like to say, you know, if traditional economics and psychology had a baby, you would have behavioral economics. And the reason that the field came about is because traditional economics assumes logical people making rational choices in everything they do all the time.
Teresa:
Were you, were you here last night?
Melina:
I know, right? It's like, not from personal experience, of course.
Teresa:
I've never actually done that, but I've heard people do it.
Melina:
Yes. And so, you know, what you end up with are these models that are built on bad assumptions. And so it's predicting what someone somewhere decided people should do versus what we actually do.
Teresa:
I love that and I love the way you just said brain friendly because you know what kind of comes to mind sometimes when I think about behavioral and understanding kind of how people buy and what they do is when do we worry that it tips into like a manipulative like I've seen it, you've probably seen it, in the online space it can happen a lot of like NLP type things and just like a few things that you're like, Oh, interesting.
Melina:
Well, the thing is, so couple things about our brains and, and some stuff to know before I answer your question directly would be, so one, research shows that we humans make up to 35,000 decisions a day.
Teresa:
It's barely one. We had peas with dinner as opposed to a cauliflower. Right. I remember making that one.
Melina:
Yeah. Right. But not anywhere near the thousands of choices that we're making throughout the day. And the reason is because our brains are really separated into two systems. I just talk about it as conscious and subconscious because I think it's easiest for people. So, in this way, that subconscious brain is making the bulk of your decisions.
Teresa:
Yeah, and I think we've all been in that situation where, and I know I for sure have many times, where someone has been in your world a while, they, you think they know what you do, they like you, they, you know, they consume your content, they follow your stuff, and then you are, I've had a conversation with them, and they've gone and bought from someone over here, and you're like, why?
Melina:
Right. You want to make sure you're not getting them all primed and ready to buy someone else's stuff. Right.
Teresa:
And I think [00:12:00] in my personal experience, that has happened because I thought, you know, they haven't bought. I thought, okay, that's fine. It's obviously not right for them or not for, you know, the price or whatever.
Melina:
Yes. And so, of course, you know, I always joke I need a mug or t shirt or something that says it depends on it because. Context really matters. And we need to know, you know, where people are coming from and everything, but, but really, so in my first book, what your customer wants and can't tell you, I have, you know, kind of what I call a recipe of steps of things to, to do and think about as you go through any sort of sales process.
Teresa:
So that's a really good point and it really resonates with me. Cause one of the things that I talk about is not trying to get people to marry you on the first date, you know, and it is a nudge thing. However, recently I. I actually interviewed someone recently who talks about, and they're not the first person I've spoken to, about making people, or not making people, getting people to make a purchase as soon as possible.
Melina:
So, once again, we have the it depends answer for this, and what I would say, looking at it, would be, you know, if you're selling, if you have a small, Like loss leader type of a product that you're trying to get people into. That's the first piece to something larger, or you sell, you know, smaller ticket type of items that that is likely a good way to be going.
Teresa:
Hang on a minute. Just go straight in, yeah, and sign it up.
Melina:
Ta da! Right? Like, it's not necessarily the process that someone's going to be going through there, but There may be a
In this episode, I delve into the often-dreaded topic of rejection, particularly as it affects women entrepreneurs. I interviewed Alice Draper, founder and chief strategist at Hustle Writers, who shared valuable insights into why rejection feels so daunting and how women are often socially conditioned to avoid it.
We discussed strategies for building resilience to rejection and provided practical tips for crafting effective pitches to increase visibility. We also shared personal stories of rejection to emphasize that it's a common experience, even for seasoned professionals.
Join the conversation to learn how overcoming the fear of rejection can open doors to business success.
If you enjoyed this episode then please feel free to go and share it on your social media or head over to
Apple podcasts
or
Spotify
and give me a review, I would be so very grateful.
Connect with Alice on
https://hustlingwriters.com/template
,
Podcast
Connect with Teresa on
Website
,
The Club
,
Sign up to Teresa's email list
,
,
,
or
Teresa:
In today's episode of the podcast, we are talking about rejection. Now, I know it's something that you don't want in your life. And in fact, as humans, we avoid it at all costs. But today's guest Alice shares with us some insight as to why that's the case. And also, If you are a female, why it's even more the case that we try and avoid rejection at all costs, which really helped me understand why it's not our fault.
Alice:
I'm doing great. How are you doing, Teresa?
Teresa:
I'm really, really good. We've already had a conversation about where you're from.
Alice:
Yes, I'm living in Dubai and I'm zooming in from Norwich. So we're both in the UK right now.
Teresa:
So it's, it's very interesting where you're, you're all over the place.
Alice:
Yeah. Yeah. So rejection is tough full stop because humans are hardwired evolutionarily to avoid rejection. Like if we're, if our ancestors were rejected, they'd be kicked out of the tribe.
Teresa:
I was just gonna say, so do you think that's the, that's the key? Do you think it's a case of actually this is just a muscle you've got to build? Or do you think that there are [00:08:00] things that you can do prior to getting rejected to feel better about it or to be prepared for it?
Alice:
That's a great question.
Teresa:
Oh wow, wow, wow, wow.
Alice:
I felt like my like hot lip to my throat, I just felt like red and ashamed and horrified and immediately I was like, I can't do this anymore. Clearly I'm just gonna make everyone angry by like, pitching them.
Teresa:
Oh my god, that's horrible. I feel sick for you. Like, I just see sometimes I don't understand with like, There's only once I've been slightly rude to and rejected something and that is not me at all.
Alice:
Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, I don't even think that your response is rude. I would take that as you're being honest. Like that is helpful information.
Teresa:
She should have done her homework.
Alice:
As the pitcher, you're like, oh, damn, I made a mistake there. But this was like, oof. And you know, like. Yeah. I actually had read the articles.
Teresa:
I mean, I just wanna know who said that now, obviously, but this, the, the funny thing is, and the, the cool thing is the fear that we will oust from the community, which like you said, comes from a very old, you know, thing that has been around for a very, very long time that our brain just hasn't caught up on yet.
Alice:
Yeah, precisely. Like, I could quote that and put it in a little clip or a quote, but I, I love the story you just shared. Cause I mean, it's so relatable. I've had that too. And I think that sales holds us back so much, especially as women. I like, I don't know, but I've seen it with various of my clients who are business coaches and I've gone through their [00:15:00] programs and I've like spoken to the people kind of, and it's like, you've got the offer, you've done the market research.
Teresa:
And sometimes the rejection will be nothing to do with you. Like, so one of the things you talk about, one of the things I want to dive into, because it's actually something that I talk about a lot is this getting visible.
Alice:
I mean, everything you just said there, I think it's so much like I, there, there's, you know, cause I do podcast publicity. That's kind of what I do for my clients and what the whole business model is rooted in.
In today's episode I chatted with chatbot expert Mel about the ease and accessibility of setting up chat funnels on Instagram and Facebook for small businesses. Mel shares valuable hacks, tips, and strategies for improving engagement, building email lists, and integrating chat funnels into your marketing plan.
The discussion emphasizes the affordability and low barrier to entry for businesses of any size and highlights the importance of personalizing customer journeys via DMs. Tune in to learn how chatbots can enhance your online presence and convert followers into leads.
If you enjoyed this episode then please feel free to go and share it on your social media or head over to
Apple podcasts
or
Spotify
and give me a review, I would be so very grateful.
Connect with Teresa on
Website
,
The Club
,
Sign up to Teresa's email list
,
,
,
or
Teresa:
If you've ever seen any of the big names in the online industry using chatbots, you know, where they post something and say, comment this or DM me this, and you thought, oh man, that must be really big and complicated and expensive to set up, then you definitely want to listen to this episode today.
Mel:
Thank you for having me.
Teresa:
I'm excited to have this conversation because I think this, I'm such a geek, right? I'm not sure I come across as a geek, but I am an absolute geek around tech, funnels, all of this sort of stuff. And this is the conversation we're having today, which I'm so excited about.
Mel:
So a chat funnel is essentially a, a new way of marketing your business that can compliment what you do already. So for a lot of businesses, their marketing will comprise doing their social media posts.
Teresa:
It is. And I was telling Mel that one of the first speaking gigs or the first speaking gig I did out of the country or in the States was for Leadpages, which For those of you who don't know who Leadpages are, they basically do landing pages for list building. And they also owned a company at the time called Drip, which was their CRM on the back end.
Mel:
There are, there are, yeah, there are other chats, there are other platforms that you can use.
Teresa:
And, and they were one of the speakers and this was literally like eight years ago and they were like chat funnels, chat bots. This is going to be the next big thing.
Mel:
They are. Yeah.
Teresa:
So. Let's just because I touched on that, have you got some stats and I appreciate I am literally just throwing questions at you. So have you got some stats in your head about the kind of conversions that people can expect through this kind of stuff?
Mel:
So essentially from what I see and from the flows that I build for clients and from myself and just in the wider industry as well, you can expect to open rates and click through rates of between 60 to 80%.
Teresa:
I mean, that's wild.
Mel:
But generally, you don't get that on a landing page or an email. It's not to say it's impossible, but generally, it's actually because no one really ignores a message from a brand in their DMs.
Teresa:
So, which is amazing because that is the aim of everything we're doing. So one of the things I know about you is that obviously you also do Facebook ads and you started in the ad space.
Mel:
So I essentially, I wanted to add another string to my bow apart from just doing and doing Facebook ads, which I still love, still do that. And my background years and years ago, long time ago now, for your children, is in print publishing. So I've worked in journalism and editing and page design.
Teresa:
But like you said, this is so freaking clever for so many reasons. One, like you said, we all know engagement on posts is key to get anything to actually have any traction. So the fact that you the whole way this starts is by commenting on a post or sending a DM or whatever.
Mel:
No, not, it's certainly not just for those who have the huge, the huge accounts. Yes, you do need to have, an engaged, instead of talking specifically about Instagram, an engaged Instagram account. Now people will be seeing possibly at the moment, there is a little bit of concern that people aren't getting comments on posts, but The chat funnels, the, and Manychat can connect into more than just the post.
Teresa:
And also taking something off your plate, which is business owners. That is so flipping key that we are able to bring things in that will help engagement and help sales and help conversions without you having to actually do the thing yourself in real time, because that is hard. Okay, so talk to me about the, so I've been in many chats, I've had to look around you, I've done work with you on it, and you're right, it's really lovely to look at and really like, I, things like that matter to me, like it needs to be intuitive and it is, which is great.
Mel:
So, [00:17:00] essentially, in order to, integrate it with your CRM, there are, ManyChat does have native integrations, but what I generally tell clients to do, and what I do for clients, is to set up Zapier. Or the other and another integration kind of platform that provides the bridge between the two. I personally use make, but I tend to use Zapier for clients.
Is there still money to be made from selling online courses? A while ago, online business expert Pat Flynn argued that online courses are in decline due to oversaturation, low completion rates, and the availability of free information online. He’s not wrong but in this episode of the podcast I offer my own insights on the future of online courses and strategies for course creators, membership owners, and coaches to adapt to the many changes that are happening in the online business space.
If you enjoyed this episode then please feel free to go and share it on your social media or head over to
Apple podcasts
or
Spotify
and give me a review, I would be so very grateful.
Connect with Teresa on
Website
,
The Club
,
Sign up to Teresa's email list
,
,
,
or
Teresa:
We have so many people come into the online space, the space that I've been in for 10 years now, and yet, so few of them seem to grow it to where they replace their done for you and one to one income or give themselves a substantial income that they are hoping for. So my job with this podcast is to help you grow an online business to the level that you want it, be it five figures, six figures, seven figures, or even more.
Can AI really help you grow your business? And can it ever really be used with integrity so that the output sounds like you and feels authentic? These are some of the big questions I ask my latest podcast guest Michelle Thames. She’s a marketing expert and knows all there is to know about AI. In this brand new episode she shares her top tips for saving time and money with AI whilst maintaining a human touch.
If you enjoyed this episode then please feel free to go and share it on your social media or head over to
Apple podcasts
or
Spotify
and give me a review, I would be so very grateful.
Connect with Michelle on
,
Connect with Teresa on
Website
,
The Club
,
Sign up to Teresa's email list
,
,
,
or
Teresa:
[00:00:00] If you're a business owner, you literally can't go. a couple of posts without someone talking about AI and what it can do for our business. But is it really true? Can using AI save us loads of time, loads of money, and most importantly, without it looking like it's AI? Because that's the thing, isn't it? We don't want AI written stuff and images that look like they've been made with AI.
Michelle:
I'm so excited to be here. So excited to chat today.
Teresa:
Me too. Me too. So I always thought the podcast the same way and I keep saying I'm going to change it and I will change it, but I haven't got, got round to that.
Michelle:
Yes. I am Michelle Thames. I'm from Chicago. It is the windy city, but it's beautiful in the summer. I am a marketing strategist and business coach and how I got started is really crazy. I actually have a background in healthcare administration.
Teresa:
So there's a couple of things I want to pick up on that first off. You and your husband working together. Was that scary? Well, there's a couple of questions I've got like, first off, both of you going into a business and therefore I'm assuming no other income coming into the house. Was that terrifying? And secondly, how do you manage working with your husband?
Michelle:
Yeah, no, I really love working with my husband.
Teresa:
I love that. And, and I think there is something about we need to work it out, which means you work it out. I think when it's optional, it feels optional when it's like, I need to pay my mortgage. I am going to make this work. There is no greater motivation. Is there?
Michelle:
None? Because it's like, yeah, I could go back to a nine to five, right?
Teresa:
Yeah. Yeah. I love that. We want to talk about, or one of the things that you talk about is AI, and I want to talk about that. However, I want to talk, I just want to ask you something else first. It's kind of like, obviously, you know, and both of us are from a marketing background, we both do marketing. I want to get your take at the moment on social media because you are so passionate about social media.
Michelle:
No, this is good. This is a good question. And no, I think all of us are feeling like, uh, but the truth of the matter is it definitely still works. Here's the thing, me and you, we have taken time to build a community of people.
Teresa:
I think, I so love what you just said. I think creating the content you want to create. I love that. I think too many people, and I remember hearing it was an influencer. It was someone talking at an event and they had a ginormous account and they were saying, don't just jump on the latest trend to get followers and to get views because you're going to attract people that aren't your people.
Michelle:
Oh yeah. No, you mean my, my Instagram? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I have 37, 000, but I feel like that's not like super huge where I can't manage it. Like, I get messages every day, but I feel like, number one, like you said, I make connections with those people. Now, one of my clients has 147, 000 on our Instagram account, and yes, like, that's, you know, It takes like a team to manage something like that.
Teresa:
I think you're right. I think that's the other thing. Like I actively encourage people to DM me and I actively respond to them. And I, you know, my account's teeny tiny, but you know, I remember watching Jasmine Star years ago and someone, she stood on stage and she was talking about outsourcing and she was saying, I outsource the things I can outsource.
Michelle:
And you can use automations too. So, ManyChat, right? If you don't have the time, we're
From the publisher's feed

2,778 Listeners

4,585 Listeners

12,077 Listeners

1,447 Listeners

329 Listeners

8,301 Listeners

3,614 Listeners

2,606 Listeners

214 Listeners

19,058 Listeners

1,000 Listeners

153 Listeners

327 Listeners

591 Listeners

708 Listeners