Coaching Session with Joyce: Money Mindset & Relationship Dynamics

Episode Summary

In this coaching session, I help "Joyce" explore her beliefs around money, particularly how she feels responsible for meeting her "wants" while relying on others for basic needs. The conversation evolves from financial concerns into deeper relationship dynamics around desire, communication, and self-betrayal.

To hear my follow-up conversations with Joyce, start a 30-day trial of Office Hours with Mark.

Timestamps

[00:00:00] Introduction; Joyce identifies money as her top concern

[00:01:00] Joyce explains her core belief: she's responsible for providing her own "wants" while relying on others (previously her father, now her husband) for basic needs

[00:02:00] Discussion of Joyce's interest in coaching as a potential income source; feeling pressure to earn money for things her husband's income can't provide

[00:03:00] Joyce's conflict between entrepreneur vs. employee paths; observation of her father's entrepreneurial experience

[00:04:00] Mark asks Joyce to clarify what she considers "needs" versus "wants"

[00:05:00] Joyce defines her values: holistic health products, personal development, travel with family

[00:06:00] Discussion of financial trade-offs; Joyce mentions feeling they don't have cash for her "wants" without incurring debt

[00:07:00] Mark compliments Joyce on framing the decision space well; suggests making vague desires more specific

[00:09:00] Joyce reveals it's more about the feeling of financial freedom than specific purchases

[00:10:00] Mark shifts focus to Joyce's relationship with money; asks why she feels the need to hold onto money

[00:11:00] Exploration of Joyce's financial security fears; Mark guides her through worst-case scenarios

[00:14:00] Discussion of safety nets (family, church) that make true destitution unlikely

[00:16:00] Mark observes that Joyce's real fear is embarrassment/shame about financial struggles

[00:17:00] Joyce connects this to her identity of being financially independent; pride in never asking family for help

[00:18:00] Mark asks Joyce to share her thoughts about people who've made poor financial choices

[00:20:00] Discussion about whether spending money is foolish; Joyce notes it depends on alignment with values

[00:21:00] Conversation about grocery budget tensions between Joyce and her husband

[00:23:00] Mark observes husband's conservative financial approach; Joyce feels they've reduced expenses as much as possible

[00:24:00] Joyce explains she wouldn't put her income in "the family pot" but would keep it separate for "extras"

[00:26:00] Discussion of financial decision-making in the marriage; Joyce has deferred to husband on major decisions

[00:28:00] Mark asks how the couple discusses desires and wants; Joyce says such conversations get "slapped with reality"

[00:30:00] Joyce describes difficulty maintaining an abundance mindset when her husband operates from scarcity

[00:32:00] Mark suggests framing as relationship challenge rather than money problem; recommends conversation approach

[00:34:00] Discussion about connection without agreement; Joyce notes husband's behavior doesn't change despite listening

[00:36:00] Mark emphasizes importance of honest desire without self-betrayal or relationship conditions

[00:38:00] Joyce realizes she keeps desires to herself to avoid negative emotions; Mark notes this reveals deeper relationship disconnection

[00:39:00] Discussion of next steps; Joyce recognizes she's gone as far as she can without involving her husband

[00:40:00] Mark emphasizes that greatest potential is achieved in relationship, not alone

[00:41:00] Joyce acknowledges she can only ask and offer; Mark cautions against using assumed resistance as an excuse

[00:43:00] Mark suggests Joyce explore job options to clarify what she wants; session wrap-up

I alternate between awe and terror when I work with Claude. One minute I'm watching 5,000 lines of code appear like I'm in The Matrix, the next I'm having existential panic about robots taking my job.

As coaches, we're not far behind software engineers. There's no reason to think a client couldn't eventually reach many of the same insights with Claude that they would with us. Pretending otherwise does us no good.

So what's our best option? Stay at the leading edge of this technology. We can use AI to spot language patterns in session transcripts, create low-friction summaries that cement insights, and help clients integrate their learning between sessions.

New technology is inevitable. The winners will embrace it; the losers will yell about it, complain about it, or pretend it doesn't exist.

You Are Not Your Label

I've noticed a concerning trend: clients who filter their experience through diagnostic labels rather than their actual thoughts and feelings. They're essentially "othering" themselves, asking "Does this fit my diagnosis?" instead of "What can I learn from this experience?"

While labels offer comfort (I've felt it myself with ADHD), they risk becoming prisons of consistency. A client who can't get through five minutes without referencing their diagnosis is using it as both explanation and excuse.

As coaches, our job isn't to categorize clients for our own comfort. It's to emphasize agency through thoughts, feelings, and behaviors—things clients can actually change.

I'm not saying abandon frameworks entirely. Personality tests can be insightful! But keep them secondary, not primary. View clients developmentally (what can they learn and become?) rather than pathologically (how do we fix them within their diagnosis?).

Remember this fundamental truth: You are not your label. You're a complex individual with capacities beyond any diagnosis.

In this episode, I explore two fundamental coaching approaches that impact your practice's financial stability. "Hygiene coaching" serves clients who view coaching as essential maintenance—like brushing and flossing for their thoughts and relationships. They renew consistently but relationships eventually end naturally. "Repair coaching" serves clients who reach out only during acute situations—positive breakthroughs or challenging crises.

The most sustainable practices blend both approaches, similar to dentistry. Dentists build predictable income through regular cleanings while accommodating emergency repairs. They reduce friction by scheduling next appointments while you're still in the chair.

For coaches who rely on practice income to support their families, predictability matters. We need financial stability to keep our attention where it belongs—on our clients, not on our bank accounts. The goal isn't just stable income, but creating an environment where you remain happy, healthy, and clear-headed for decades of service.

To discuss topics like this one, network with other coaches, and get support directly from me in running your practice, consider joining my Office Hours membership: https://officehourswithmark.com.

In this episode, I explore the territory of superiority - that place where I position myself as right, evolved, or "above" while seeing others as wrong or behind. This pattern emerges most in emotionally activated moments, when I'm feeling insecure or fearful.

For me, superiority manifests as becoming a well-spoken, fast-talking bully, using my natural ability to rapidly process ideas as a weapon rather than a tool for connection. Through coaching and my patient wife's feedback, I've developed awareness of the physical sensations that accompany this pattern.

Practical strategies like 24-hour processing periods with Kate and creating intentional space in client sessions have been transformative. I no longer incur the internal penalties of superiority as often, though the sneaky internal voice of criticism still appears.

For coaches struggling with superiority (and many of us do), I recommend regularly checking: "Was I being superior or collaborative in that interaction?"

The goal isn't perfection but awareness and correction when we slip.

In this episode, I share a new hypothesis about how coaching practices can get full without spending too much time or money pursuing clients. I've reduced my ideas into a simple mantra: "As I spend time in spaces and with people I enjoy, always working to be more interested and interesting, coaching clients will appear."

I break down how this approach relies on confidence, curiosity, and patience rather than anxious, desperate chasing. The goal isn't trying to "get clients" but rather investing deeply in areas that genuinely interest you, developing hard-to-ignore perspectives (often through productive disagreement with conventional wisdom), and creating a practice that feels good now and will feel good later.

If you'd like to create a sustainable 5-15 session per week coaching practice without exhausting yourself in the pursuit of clients, this episode, I think you'll enjoy what I have to say.

If you'd like support and community around these ideas, consider joining my Office Hours community:

https://officehourswithmark.com

Most months I start with no idea who will hire me. That uncertainty creates anxiety, even though I've learned to manage it well.

Here's what helps: While my practice feels unpredictable month-to-month, it's actually quite predictable year-to-year. In the past three years, I've rarely had a month with zero coaching transactions.

I've found that reducing uncertainty comes down to nurturing three types of relationships:

1. People who already trust me in a coaching context (past clients, podcast listeners)
2. People who like and trust me, but not yet in a coaching context
3. Complete strangers who might eventually become clients

The coaching transactions that happen this month won't be random or "out of the blue" – they'll be the natural outcome of relationships planted and nurtured days, weeks, or even years ago.

So yes, coaching is an unpredictable business. But by nurturing relationships, we make the unpredictable parts less volatile.

My friend Chantel Allen uses personal practices like "the hour of silence" to calm her mind, heal her pains, and prepare herself to coach her clients in the way that feels right to her. I brought her back on the show today to discuss how coaches can serve their clients better and grow their practices through doing the inner work. 

To find out how you can with with Chantel, join her waitlist here: https://www.chantelallencoaching.com/waiting-list

Here's a GPT-generated outline of the conversation:

1. Coaches Often Focus Too Much on Providing Answers Instead of Asking Questions: The episode discusses how coaches may feel the need to prove themselves by giving advice and answers, rather than facilitating deeper client insights through powerful questioning and active listening.

2. The Impact of Unresolved Personal Issues on Coaching: The conversation explores how unresolved personal challenges in a coach’s life can unconsciously affect their coaching, causing them to project their own need for validation onto their clients.

3. The Shift from Hustle to Heart in Coaching: Mark and Chantel highlight the growing importance of slowing down and focusing on internal work and connection, rather than obsessing over external achievements and hustling to gain clients or success. This shift in mindset leads to more genuine and impactful coaching.

In this episode, I talk about an experience with a friend in high school that shaped my love for listening. She shared the details of a tough season in her life, and then thanked me for the way I listened to her. I know this isn't a unique experience, but it's my first memory of realizing that just paying close, compassionate attention is a way to connect with people. Now that I'm a coach, I believe listening is our most important skill, and one we can develop through careful practice and repetition.

Along with a few other ideas about what numbers a one-on-one coach might want to track in order to keep the practice healthy.