A Podcast for Coaches

I set aside an episode I'd spent a week on after an adversarial read exposed a weakness in my own arguments. What came out of that is a three-question tool for evaluating claims — mine, yours, your clients', and the ones on every sales page you'll read this week. In this episode I run two of my own claims through it and show you where they hold and where they don't.

• [00:00] The episode I've been working on for a week — over 3,000 words, and I stopped short of publishing it
• [00:57] Why I wanted a closer look: I want this material to be foundational, which means it has to be reliable
• [01:26] I know how close I am to my own theories, so I don't know where my blind spots are
• [01:50] A reader who already agrees with me nods along. A reader who doesn't might find big holes
• [02:12] What I asked Claude to do: not content, not flow, not style — strength and defensibility
• [02:39] It found gaping holes in about thirty seconds, and a discernment tool started to emerge from the conversation
• [03:24] Where this tool applies: your own thinking, content you consume, sales pages, and conversations with clients — not to put them on trial, but to help them see the claims they're making
• [03:57] The tool: What is the claim being made? What happens if the claim is wrong? Can we find out if it's wrong?
• [04:39] Story one: my high school best friend texted me after five years of no contact, and I felt a surge of good feeling
• [05:04] Story two: a fellow coach running Facebook ads to consultations, spending far more than is coming back

Question one: what is the claim?

• [05:47] The claim I actually made about my friend — relationships persist in spite of long dormancy — and why it's easy to confirm
• [06:13] The next rung up: dormant relationships could become coaching engagements. I can confirm the warm feeling. I can't confirm it converts
• [07:08] A claim about affinity quietly gets swapped for a claim about a transaction — and you'll meet this move constantly in the wild
• [07:25] "He referred me a client, therefore dormant relationships are your best lead source" — a sample size of one driving strategy, with no mention of the other forty-nine
• [08:14] The absurd version, three short steps from a story that felt completely reasonable
• [08:45] Why a relatable story and a relatable emotion can make an absurd claim feel believable
• [09:01] Every one of those claims could be true. The failure isn't dishonesty — it's the fit between the facts and what I claimed from them
• [09:37] The second story, where I got onto shaky ground
• [10:04] I never said you can't grow a coaching practice through paid ads. I implied it, and asked you to state it for me
• [10:29] Why this is the same move as the earnings claims I criticized a few weeks ago — just the mathematical reverse
• [11:17] An old sales adage from my own selling days: if you say it, the prospect can challenge it; if they say it, it's true
• [11:41] "So? You tell me." I was completely guilty of this
• [12:26] If I had stated my claim, I would have had to defend my claim
• [12:31] Stating the claim is often the whole job

Question two: what happens if the claim is wrong?

• [13:21] If the friend story were entirely fabricated, essentially nothing changes for you or for me
• [13:47] If I'm wrong about paid ads, many of you discard a potentially profitable growth strategy
• [14:14] The stakes, not the intent, are what separate these two
• [14:43] I'm asking my listener to eat the cost of my being wrong — which is why I've got to clean up the claim

Question three: can we find out if it's wrong?

• [15:18] For the friend claim, trivially — you yourselves are the evidence, which is why it needs no support
• [15:56] My first job with the ads claim: admit I don't know how representative that one coach is
• [16:29] Acknowledging that weakens the claim and strengthens the ethics — it pulls the cost of being wrong back onto me
• [17:08] I struggle to believe advertising works for one-on-one practices, and I don't have enough data to stand behind that
• [17:40] What it would take to actually know: survey a hundred coaches and find out
• [18:02] What a strong version of my claim would sound like with real numbers behind it
• [18:53] Going further still — accounting for the cases where it did work, and what those coaches had in play
• [19:30] Until I've done that work: this is my bias, supported by one story
• [19:45] What I wish the people making earnings claims would publish — robust data we could analyze, discuss, and debate
• [20:21] All I can offer today is an opinion with a small handful of anecdotes. You have to do your own research

The tool, restated

• [20:31] Three questions for a client conversation, a spouse, a sales page, or a purchase decision
• [20:56] It usually takes about thirty seconds — and at minimum it tells you what the next step would be
• [21:20] If nothing else, it short-circuits hasty decisions built on weak claims

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Bookkeeping

Let's Do the Books is bookkeeping built for coaches and small practices — letsdothebooks.com

I get asked with some regularity what it looks like to scale a one-on-one coaching practice — usually by coaches who don't want a membership or a group program, but who also don't want to feel trapped by their business model. In this episode I work through what scaling actually is, the ways a one-on-one coach can genuinely do it, and why moving to groups isn't scaling at all. It's starting a second business.

• [00:00] Why the scaling question is inevitable, even for coaches drawn to the simplicity of one-on-one
• [01:21] Accepting the constraints of a business model as a key to being happy in it
• [01:47] A working definition: to scale is to get more output from a single unit of input than you got before
• [02:13] The most basic form of scale in a coaching practice — charge more for the same hour
• [02:54] Why "raise your rates" is the cheapest business advice anyone can give
• [03:32] The other version of scale: hold income constant, reduce the hours
• [03:51] The question I ask first: what problem are you actually trying to solve? Income? Hours? Burnout? One draining client?
• [05:23] Scaling by reducing the other inputs — marketing time and administrative time
• [05:55] Why paid advertising is an expensive way to grow a one-on-one practice: higher no-show rates, lower close rates
• [07:31] The apparent inefficiency of organic, relationship-driven client acquisition — and why it's actually more efficient
• [08:12] "Charging what you're worth": what you're worth is exactly what people are willing to pay you
• [09:00] The strongest signal it's time to raise your rate — demand in excess of the time you want to make available
• [09:45] Scale is supported by demand. The scale conversation comes after the demand conversation
• [11:02] The caveat: because coaching value is perceived, a higher price can create its own demand — at least in the short term
• [12:05] But can you sustain demand at $1,000 an hour? The questions that decides it
• [13:26] Why I don't think moving to groups, memberships, or courses is scaling a one-on-one practice
• [14:27] It's starting a new business that runs in parallel — with some real spillover benefits
• [15:57] Why the second, third, and fourth launches feel exponentially harder than the first
• [17:09] The three Rs that sustain and scale a one-on-one practice: relationships, renewals, rate increases
• [17:34] What sustains a group practice or membership? Marketing, marketing, marketing
• [17:58] Where the coach's mind goes first — scaling the delivery — and why that's the solvable part
• [19:43] The real bottleneck is demand generation. To sustain enrollment, the coach almost has to stop being a coach
• [21:04] Running both at once: two businesses, two sets of marketing, two sets of delivery
• [22:29] Why your one-on-one hour starts to feel more and more costly to you
• [23:20] Anyone who tells you the transition is smooth and reduces your workload isn't quite right
• [25:07] The dip: output shrinks relative to input before it grows — and some coaches selling you the path are still in it
• [26:33] The simplicity and elegance of the one-on-one practice are really hard to beat, including financially
• [28:21] The equalizing effect: similar compensation, more churn, more activity, more stuff
• [29:51] Why we don't hear from the coaches who actually scale one-on-one — the quiet minority
• [31:38] The mental and emotional discipline of letting the world be noisy around you
• [33:14] I'm not anti-group. I'm anti-claims that groups are easier and deliver more dollars per hour

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A sensible refund policy benefits sellers as much as it benefits buyers. A new view of refunds in the coaching industry would solve some of our biggest image problems, protect the brands of coaches doing good work, and allow more people to engage more enthusiastically with the training and support they need.

Timestamps

[00:00:00] Introduction and thesis

• A no-refund policy is widely accepted in high-ticket coaching, often framed as a benefit to both seller and buyer
• Today's argument: a sensible refund policy benefits sellers as much as buyers
• Background: inside dozens of coaching businesses since 2014, including several that exceeded a million dollars in annual revenue—this is an insider perspective, not opinion from the outside

[00:03:16] The asymmetry of information problem

• The seller knows what the program is actually like; the buyer has only the sales page, the testimonials, and the price
• Sellers often filter applicants by income or client count—well-intentioned, but imperfect; how much someone has made is a good but incomplete signal of fit
• Even with filters in place, some people who cross the threshold are not a great fit—the seller knows this; a refund policy is the honest acknowledgment of that fact
• A no-refund policy leaves no room for either party to have made a mistake: "A refund policy becomes the insurance against the imperfection of the sales experience and the imperfection of the fit between buyer and seller"

[00:07:03] Six psychological principles stacking the deck against the buyer

• [00:07:10] 1. Parasocial relationship — Buyers often spend months or years in a seller's content orbit, forming a one-sided relationship in which the seller becomes associated with their own aspirations; the shorthand is "I want to be her"—and that lean makes it harder to evaluate a program on its merits; a seller who can acknowledge the parasocial dynamic and formalize that acknowledgment through a reasonable refund policy is headed in the direction of ethics
• [00:10:19] 2. FOMO and 3. Social proof — Fear of missing out looks like this: a peer joins the mastermind, momentum builds, and the cost of saying no starts to feel higher than the cost of saying yes; social proof compounds it—testimonials, photography of beautifully designed conference rooms, smiling participants—none of it is wrong, but it can blur the decision and take the buyer's eye off whether the program is actually a good fit for them right now
• [00:12:57] 4. Price as a value signal — In the absence of other good information, high price functions as a credibility signal; the more expensive the experience, the more likely we are to assume it is valuable; combined with the parasocial relationship, FOMO, and social proof, price becomes the final thumb pressing down on the yes side of the scale
• [00:14:32] 5. Consistency principle (Cialdini) — Human beings have a powerful drive to feel consistent in the decisions they've made; the bigger the decision, the greater that need; a buyer who generated significant emotion to get themselves to yes—who told themselves "I am a person who goes all in, I get a great return on my investments"—now has to violate all of that to ask for a refund; the consistency principle makes that psychologically expensive enough that very few people will do it; when someone sends a refund request, they may already be in a fragile state, having paid a significant internal cost just to send the email
• [00:26:06] 6. Reciprocity — A gracious refund triggers reciprocity; the buyer who receives a quick, courteous refund feels some degree of debt to the seller and is more likely to go out and speak well of them; you could end up with someone going into a critical subreddit and saying "I withdrew early and they were so kind about it—I can't speak to the program but I can say they're good people to work with"

[00:18:35] What happens when a refund is denied

• A dismissive refund rejection can bump up against the buyer's fears about their own character—framing it as a commitment issue ("we only want people who are all in") forces the buyer to either agree they're a quitter or fight back
• When they fight, they fight in two places: chargebacks with the merchant processor, and subreddits
• Chargebacks are hard to win for the buyer, but they create a blemish on the seller's payment processing account
• Subreddits are another matter—pop some popcorn, because there are some very angry people posting some very angry things in life coaching-related subreddits

[00:27:51] Refund policies are low risk and high reward

• Refund request rates in the coaching industry are astonishingly low—and there is a negative correlation between program price and refund requests; the higher the price, the fewer the requests
• A no-refund policy signals scarcity and fear; a generous one signals confidence and abundance: "if you won't give me a refund, I have to wonder if it's because you really desperately need those dollars"
• A generous refund policy makes you look like someone swimming backstroke through an Olympic-sized pool of gold coins—it supports the sales process rather than undermining it
• A good refund policy will likely make more money than it costs

[00:30:08] The honest admission: this may all be moot

• The same psychology that makes no-refund policies ethically problematic also makes them commercially durable
• A buyer with a strong parasocial relationship may encounter angry subreddits and be galvanized rather than deterred—the vitriol confirms their identity as someone who is committed and not a quitter
• The no-refund policy can even become a "burn the ships" moment: proof of their own all-in conviction
• I have to allow for the possibility that everything argued here is irrelevant anyway

[00:32:00] The closing argument

• One-sentence refund policy: "If you ask for a refund, I will quickly grant it with a smile on my face"
• The refunds are affordable—unless these businesses are truly mismanaging their cash, they can handle them
• In the long run, refunds are less costly than angry subreddits—but it's not really about the subreddits; it's about the conversations happening over dinner, over drinks, at the gym, that you will never hear but that will make or break your business
• A generous refund policy is a very small part of a very smart strategy

Continue the conversation

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A friend sent me a sales page full of earnings claims. That got me thinking about what earnings claims actually do—and why coaches who use them should take a harder look at what they're presenting and what they're leaving out.

[00:00:00] Introduction

• A friend shared a sales page, which prompted this episode
• The program being offered may be fine—what I want to examine is the earnings claims being used to sell it

[00:01:08] What an earnings claim is and what it does

• Earnings claims function as a shortcut to trust and credibility
• The numbers that appear on sales pages aren't accidental: big enough to be exciting, small enough to be believable
• That's the anchoring effect—once it happens, your psychology has already been changed

[00:05:38] Why sellers feel justified making earnings claims

• Confirmation bias: coaches naturally gravitate toward participants who validate their advice, and away from those who don't
• This doesn't require bad intent—a well-intentioned seller working from incomplete data is still presenting incomplete data
• The seller also has a structural incentive not to look too closely, because transparency here tends to go against their financial interest

[00:09:24] The Jane problem: what earnings claims leave out

• A former Fortune 100 executive generates several hundred thousand dollars in coaching fees after joining a program
• The anchoring effect lands on the number—what gets glossed over is the 25 years of network, pedigree, and relationship capital Jane built before she ever found the program
• Her result may have almost nothing to do with you, but the anchoring has already happened

[00:13:23] The numbers being presented aren't the whole picture

• Earnings claims almost always report gross revenue—before expenses, before refunds
• I share an example from my bookkeeping days of a coach who reported cumulative lifetime revenue as if it were annual
• The anchoring effect depends on presenting the most exciting version of the number, which means context gets left out by design

[00:16:00] What a more honest earnings claim would look like

• Load in the costs, the background, the network, the timing
• The standard: support an earnings claim with enough context that it stops being exciting and starts being useful
• If the context deflates the number, that's not a reason to leave it out—that's the whole point

[00:18:00] How to evaluate an earnings claim as a buyer

• Strip all earnings claims from the sales material and evaluate what's left
• Ask whether the program stands on its features, benefits, and the trust you have with the person offering it
• The question isn't whether the program worked for someone—it almost certainly has; the question is whether you are similar enough to that person for their result to tell you anything about yours
• Ask yourself: if this program had no impact on your income, would you still want to do it, and does the price still make sense?
• If the answer is no, the earnings claims were doing more work than the program
• This test matters most if you're borrowing the money—and perhaps exponentially more if there's no refund policy

[00:22:05] Get-rich-quick psychology

• I don't think it's fair to call most of these programs get-rich-quick schemes
• But they do make use of get-rich-quick psychology—dressed up, made to seem more reasonable
• There is no shortcut to developing the skills and mindset that support earning at any level as a coach; the only way around is through

[00:23:39] The closing argument

• Earnings claims generate emotion, and emotion generates yes
• If you need to generate a lot of emotion to make the decision, it's probably not a good decision
• Set the claims aside; let the decision be a little bit boring
• If it can survive boring, unemotional analysis, go ahead—and if not, the doors aren't actually closing, and the offer will be back

Refund policies get their own episode—stay tuned.

Continue the conversation at

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I talk with coaches every week through my bookkeeping service at letsdothebooks.com. Over time I've distilled three questions whose answers reveal more about where a coach is in their practice than almost anything else — not because of what the answers say, but because of how confidently and clearly a coach can say them.

Timestamps

[00:00:00] Introduction — I describe the conversations that led to these three questions, and introduce the core idea: confidence and clarity in the answers matter more than the content of the answers.

[00:00:48] Question 1: How will I meet and enroll my next coaching client? — This question has marketing and sales baked into it. A boring answer is a good sign. A hopeful or hypothetical answer signals a practice still in an exploratory season.

[00:02:02] What a mature answer looks like — I use my own practice as an example: referrals and podcast listeners. No drama, no hypothesis. An answered question.

[00:03:06] What the answer reveals — Confidence in this answer gives me a strong read on where a coach is in their practice, independent of whether they're a good coach or what their timeline looks like.

[00:04:13] The confidence edge — Where my own confidence becomes hypothetical: scaling enrollment, moving from a handful of clients per year to dozens. That gap is diagnostic too.

[00:05:11] Question 1 as a standalone heuristic — If there were only one question to ask, this would be it.

[00:05:38] Questions 2 and 3 — Why they matter: coaches can really lose the thread of a healthy practice here, and the answers reveal mental and emotional state as much as business strategy.

[00:06:06] Question 2: What structure and deliverables will I follow to support my next client? — I describe my own model: block of sessions, Zoom calls, no homework, no portal, no between-session access. Simple and settled.

[00:07:43] What an unsettled answer looks like — A coach adding and subtracting from their delivery model could signal confident growth, or it could signal burnout trying to disguise itself as a structural problem.

[00:08:58] Structural solutions to mental-emotional problems — The tell: a coach building a portal because they're tired of repeating themselves versus a coach building one because they're excited about a new dimension of service. Same idea, very different implications.

[00:10:57] Reading the tone — Bored and matter-of-fact, or excited and energized: I trust the answer. Deep sigh, fatigue, hoping something will fix something: I dig deeper.

[00:11:32] Question 3: What will happen when your next client is finished with the engagement? — The question most coaches haven't thought through. My answer: invite them to continue in almost an identical engagement.

[00:12:36] What a hypothetical answer signals — Wishing, hoping, and wondering here carries the same diagnostic weight as in Questions 1 and 2.

[00:14:13] The grandiosity of "I don't want to create dependence" — I push back on this framing directly. What's more likely: insecurity about asking for the renewal, or a belief that renewals are predatory.

[00:15:20] Why renewals matter — The first yes is the hardest thing in any business. Subsequent yeses are much easier to clear. If you're not set up for renewals, you're in an eat-what-you-kill business.

[00:15:58] Big promises make renewals harder — Coaches who oversell a specific result in the initial sales process anchor clients to a finish line. That makes the second yes harder or even impossible.

[00:16:44] Eat what you kill vs. reap what you sow — The two business models, and why one becomes easier over time and the other doesn't.

[00:18:17] Closing — I don't believe there are wrong answers to any of these questions. What I'm listening for is confidence and clarity in whatever path a coach is on, because that's what keeps a practice in productive motion.

[00:18:49] The three questions, restated — A clean summary before the close.

Links

• letsdothebooks.com — My bookkeeping service for coaches
• officehourswithmark.com — My coaching membership

Coaching Session with Joyce: Money Mindset & Relationship Dynamics

Episode Summary

In this coaching session, I help "Joyce" explore her beliefs around money, particularly how she feels responsible for meeting her "wants" while relying on others for basic needs. The conversation evolves from financial concerns into deeper relationship dynamics around desire, communication, and self-betrayal.

To hear my follow-up conversations with Joyce, start a 30-day trial of Office Hours with Mark.

Timestamps

[00:00:00] Introduction; Joyce identifies money as her top concern

[00:01:00] Joyce explains her core belief: she's responsible for providing her own "wants" while relying on others (previously her father, now her husband) for basic needs

[00:02:00] Discussion of Joyce's interest in coaching as a potential income source; feeling pressure to earn money for things her husband's income can't provide

[00:03:00] Joyce's conflict between entrepreneur vs. employee paths; observation of her father's entrepreneurial experience

[00:04:00] Mark asks Joyce to clarify what she considers "needs" versus "wants"

[00:05:00] Joyce defines her values: holistic health products, personal development, travel with family

[00:06:00] Discussion of financial trade-offs; Joyce mentions feeling they don't have cash for her "wants" without incurring debt

[00:07:00] Mark compliments Joyce on framing the decision space well; suggests making vague desires more specific

[00:09:00] Joyce reveals it's more about the feeling of financial freedom than specific purchases

[00:10:00] Mark shifts focus to Joyce's relationship with money; asks why she feels the need to hold onto money

[00:11:00] Exploration of Joyce's financial security fears; Mark guides her through worst-case scenarios

[00:14:00] Discussion of safety nets (family, church) that make true destitution unlikely

[00:16:00] Mark observes that Joyce's real fear is embarrassment/shame about financial struggles

[00:17:00] Joyce connects this to her identity of being financially independent; pride in never asking family for help

[00:18:00] Mark asks Joyce to share her thoughts about people who've made poor financial choices

[00:20:00] Discussion about whether spending money is foolish; Joyce notes it depends on alignment with values

[00:21:00] Conversation about grocery budget tensions between Joyce and her husband

[00:23:00] Mark observes husband's conservative financial approach; Joyce feels they've reduced expenses as much as possible

[00:24:00] Joyce explains she wouldn't put her income in "the family pot" but would keep it separate for "extras"

[00:26:00] Discussion of financial decision-making in the marriage; Joyce has deferred to husband on major decisions

[00:28:00] Mark asks how the couple discusses desires and wants; Joyce says such conversations get "slapped with reality"

[00:30:00] Joyce describes difficulty maintaining an abundance mindset when her husband operates from scarcity

[00:32:00] Mark suggests framing as relationship challenge rather than money problem; recommends conversation approach

[00:34:00] Discussion about connection without agreement; Joyce notes husband's behavior doesn't change despite listening

[00:36:00] Mark emphasizes importance of honest desire without self-betrayal or relationship conditions

[00:38:00] Joyce realizes she keeps desires to herself to avoid negative emotions; Mark notes this reveals deeper relationship disconnection

[00:39:00] Discussion of next steps; Joyce recognizes she's gone as far as she can without involving her husband

[00:40:00] Mark emphasizes that greatest potential is achieved in relationship, not alone

[00:41:00] Joyce acknowledges she can only ask and offer; Mark cautions against using assumed resistance as an excuse

[00:43:00] Mark suggests Joyce explore job options to clarify what she wants; session wrap-up

I alternate between awe and terror when I work with Claude. One minute I'm watching 5,000 lines of code appear like I'm in The Matrix, the next I'm having existential panic about robots taking my job.

As coaches, we're not far behind software engineers. There's no reason to think a client couldn't eventually reach many of the same insights with Claude that they would with us. Pretending otherwise does us no good.

So what's our best option? Stay at the leading edge of this technology. We can use AI to spot language patterns in session transcripts, create low-friction summaries that cement insights, and help clients integrate their learning between sessions.

New technology is inevitable. The winners will embrace it; the losers will yell about it, complain about it, or pretend it doesn't exist.

You Are Not Your Label

I've noticed a concerning trend: clients who filter their experience through diagnostic labels rather than their actual thoughts and feelings. They're essentially "othering" themselves, asking "Does this fit my diagnosis?" instead of "What can I learn from this experience?"

While labels offer comfort (I've felt it myself with ADHD), they risk becoming prisons of consistency. A client who can't get through five minutes without referencing their diagnosis is using it as both explanation and excuse.

As coaches, our job isn't to categorize clients for our own comfort. It's to emphasize agency through thoughts, feelings, and behaviors—things clients can actually change.

I'm not saying abandon frameworks entirely. Personality tests can be insightful! But keep them secondary, not primary. View clients developmentally (what can they learn and become?) rather than pathologically (how do we fix them within their diagnosis?).

Remember this fundamental truth: You are not your label. You're a complex individual with capacities beyond any diagnosis.

In this episode, I explore two fundamental coaching approaches that impact your practice's financial stability. "Hygiene coaching" serves clients who view coaching as essential maintenance—like brushing and flossing for their thoughts and relationships. They renew consistently but relationships eventually end naturally. "Repair coaching" serves clients who reach out only during acute situations—positive breakthroughs or challenging crises.

The most sustainable practices blend both approaches, similar to dentistry. Dentists build predictable income through regular cleanings while accommodating emergency repairs. They reduce friction by scheduling next appointments while you're still in the chair.

For coaches who rely on practice income to support their families, predictability matters. We need financial stability to keep our attention where it belongs—on our clients, not on our bank accounts. The goal isn't just stable income, but creating an environment where you remain happy, healthy, and clear-headed for decades of service.

To discuss topics like this one, network with other coaches, and get support directly from me in running your practice, consider joining my Office Hours membership: https://officehourswithmark.com.

In this episode, I explore the territory of superiority - that place where I position myself as right, evolved, or "above" while seeing others as wrong or behind. This pattern emerges most in emotionally activated moments, when I'm feeling insecure or fearful.

For me, superiority manifests as becoming a well-spoken, fast-talking bully, using my natural ability to rapidly process ideas as a weapon rather than a tool for connection. Through coaching and my patient wife's feedback, I've developed awareness of the physical sensations that accompany this pattern.

Practical strategies like 24-hour processing periods with Kate and creating intentional space in client sessions have been transformative. I no longer incur the internal penalties of superiority as often, though the sneaky internal voice of criticism still appears.

For coaches struggling with superiority (and many of us do), I recommend regularly checking: "Was I being superior or collaborative in that interaction?"

The goal isn't perfection but awareness and correction when we slip.