Seven years of A's life ran on a story her father repeated to her: that her mother was crazy, that her mother did not love her, and that her mother had let her go. A was twelve when the sisters moved in with him, and she was a young adult before she worked out how much of it was untrue.

This episode is a conversation Lisa recorded with a young woman she calls A, the daughter of a friend. A asked to stay anonymous, so no names, no places, and no identifying details appear here or in the recording. She was four when her parents separated. She is twenty now, living with her mother again, and she agreed to talk because she wanted parents in this position to hear what the years looked like from the child's side.

A walks through the timeline. The visitation years, when her father was the parent with no rules and a steady commentary about her mother. The day an argument between her mother and her older sister brought the police and a restraining order, and the sisters moved out. The instructions on what to tell the social workers and the therapists, and the warning that if anyone learned they were depressed the two of them would be split up and placed elsewhere. The calls, eight or nine a day, timed to how long the walk to school and the drive to work should take. A says she thought all of that meant she was loved, and that her mother, who did not do it, must not love her.

The turn comes slowly. A started therapy at seventeen after a relationship that repeated her father's pattern, started journaling at eighteen because a therapist suggested it, and describes reading her own writing back as the first time she understood what she thought about anything. She and her sister started talking. She reached out to her mother on an impulse she still cannot explain, and heard a version of events that matched things happening to her. Reconciliation has not been simple, and A is honest about the resentment on both sides. Her advice to parents is short: you do not know the whole story, do not make your child feel guilty for having left, and just listen.

As always, this is strategic education, not legal or mental-health advice for your specific situation.

🎓 What you'll learn

• What the fun-parent setup buys, and what it costs a child later
• How a child gets coached on what to tell social workers, therapists, and the court
• Why a threat of being separated from a sibling keeps kids silent about everything
• Golden child and scapegoat: what each role does to a child's sense of self
• Why constant calls and tracking read as love to a kid who has known nothing else
• What actually started the change: therapy, journaling, and a sibling to talk to
• How financial control, from a car loan to the groceries, keeps a young adult in place
• What A wants a target parent to do differently when their child comes back

⏱️ Chapters
0:00 Intro
1:00 Why A is anonymous, and where the story starts
3:00 The fun parent: no rules, no homework, no bedtime
7:00 The day the police were called, and the restraining order
11:00 Why moving in with her father felt like her own choice
13:00 Coached on what to tell the social workers and therapists
17:00 Growing up without being allowed to have an opinion
23:00 Therapy at seventeen, and a relationship that repeated the pattern
27:00 Journaling at eighteen, and having a thought of her own
31:00 Meeting her mother again, and hearing the other side
37:00 A threat, a hospital, and three months living in a car
51:00 Debt, food, and what she would tell a parent trying to reconnect

Keep going 💜
Book a free 30-minute discovery call and we'll help you map your next steps: https://beentheregotout.com/call
📘 Been There Got Out: Toxic Relationships, High-Conflict Divorce, and How to Stay Sane Under Insane Circumstances — https://www.amazon.com/dp/194627495X
📘 Been There Got Out: When Your Ex Turns the Kids Against You (our parental-alienation book) — https://www.amazon.com/dp/1967674183

About Been There Got Out
Chris Barry and Lisa Johnson are high-conflict divorce, custody, and co-parenting strategists, and the founders of Been There Got Out. They know these cases from the inside: both have successfully represented themselves in family court. Few attorneys have a playbook for a case like this — Chris and Lisa write yours with you, so you and your kids can get through it as unscathed as possible.

Filing jointly with your spouse can hand you a bigger refund, and, if that return is ever wrong, a bill you never saw coming. Attorney Nancy Rossner says that is the trade-off people going through a divorce underestimate, because the IRS can hold either spouse responsible for the whole balance, including tax on income the other person left off.

Nancy Rossner is an attorney and the executive director of the Community Tax Law Project, a nonprofit low-income taxpayer clinic in Richmond, Virginia that serves the whole state and is part of a national network of clinics offering the same free help. She has been on the show before, and Lisa treats this as an annual tradition timed to tax season, because the questions come up in the BTGO community every single year.

In this episode, Nancy and Lisa cover the choice between filing jointly and separately and the risk each carries, why an agreement over who claims a child is a contract with real consequences, and the rule people trip over most: the earned income tax credit follows the child, no matter what the decree assigns. They talk about keeping a dated calendar of overnights as proof, filing early and using an IRS identity protection PIN so an ex can't claim your kids first, and building enforcement language with deadlines and consequences into any agreement about tax debt.

Nancy also explains the superseding return, using a client whose spouse pocketed the joint refund: filing her own return before the deadline replaced the joint one and got her money back. She closes with the free options worth knowing, from VITA and United Way to the taxpayer advocate service and the clinic list in IRS Publication 4134.

As always, this is strategic education, not legal or mental-health advice for your specific situation.

🎓 What you'll learn

• Why a joint return can leave you owing tax on income your spouse hid or misreported
• The earned income tax credit follows the child, whatever the divorce decree assigns
• Why an agreement over who claims a child is a contract you can be sued for breaking
• How to prove which parent had the child more: a dated calendar of overnights
• File early and use an IRS identity protection PIN so an ex can't claim your kids first
• The superseding return: how filing your own return before the deadline can undo a joint one
• Enforcement language with deadlines and consequences for any agreement about tax debt
• Free help most people don't know exists: VITA, tax clinics, and the taxpayer advocate

⏱️ Chapters
0:00 Intro
1:00 File jointly or separately during a divorce
3:00 Nancy's clinic, and free help for tax problems
5:00 How taxes get weaponized: claiming the children
7:00 The earned income credit that follows the child
9:00 Enforcement language on tax debt, and why "when" not "if"
12:00 Tracking overnights and keeping contemporaneous records
14:00 Red flags, filing early, and the identity protection PIN
19:00 The superseding return that got a client her refund
22:00 Free filing resources: VITA, clinics, and Publication 4134

Keep going 💜
Book a free 30-minute discovery call and we'll help you map your next steps: https://beentheregotout.com/call
📘 Been There Got Out: Toxic Relationships, High-Conflict Divorce, and How to Stay Sane Under Insane Circumstances — https://www.amazon.com/dp/194627495X
📘 Been There Got Out: When Your Ex Turns the Kids Against You (our parental-alienation book) — https://www.amazon.com/dp/1967674183
🔗 Nancy Rossner at The Community Tax Law Project: https://ctlp.org/
🔗 Find a free low-income tax clinic (IRS Publication 4134): https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p4134.pdf

🎧 More with Nancy Rossner on this podcast
Ep 168: Tax Abuse and Innocent Spouse Relief

About Been There Got Out
Chris Barry and Lisa Johnson are high-conflict divorce, custody, and co-parenting strategists, and the founders of Been There Got Out. They know these cases from the inside: both have successfully represented themselves in family court. Few attorneys have a playbook for a case like this — Chris and Lisa write yours with you, so you and your kids can get through it as unscathed as possible.

Three kinds of preparation, according to Chloe Oudiz, decide how a divorce goes: the emotional readiness, the expectations you walk in with, and the logistics. Most people handle the third and ignore the first two.

Our guest is Chloe Oudiz, a certified divorce coach based in London who works internationally because most of her clients are expats and international families. She and Lisa are both part of the Amicable Divorce Network, and BTGO has referred clients to her for cross-border questions. She has just published Don't Screw Up Your Divorce, written for people at the crossroads, before anything is filed, who are afraid that one wrong first step will set off a war.

Chloe's argument is that the earliest stage carries leverage you will not get back, particularly if you are the one making the decision: you choose when and how you tell your spouse, you gather information first, and you get yourself emotionally ready. She spends time on the expectation she sees derail people, the hope of emotional justice from a judge, and on how to tell children by age group. Grown children get their own section, because a family break can land harder on someone who never witnessed the tension and is in the middle of building their own life.

From there they cover the resolution options many people never hear about, mediation, collaborative law, sharing a lawyer where the jurisdiction allows it, arbitration and private hearings, and Chloe's case for starting at the lowest rung and escalating rather than opening with the strongest move you have. Lisa flags the difference in their client bases directly: Chloe works to keep matters out of court, while BTGO's clients are already in high-conflict cases, and an ex who feels cornered will come back harder. Both agree on the money and the professionals. Build a budget per professional, ask how often they bill, keep the therapy conversations away from the lawyer's six-minute increments, and treat yourself as the client rather than the passenger. Chloe closes on boundaries with friends and family, and on getting the anger out somewhere safe, in a letter or in front of a mirror, rather than at your ex or through your children.

As always, this is strategic education, not legal or mental-health advice for your specific situation.

🎓 What you'll learn

• The three kinds of preparation: emotional, expectations, and logistics
• Why the day in court where a judge vindicates you is almost never coming
• How to tell children by age group, and why grown children can take it harder
• Why it is the conflict, not the divorce itself, that damages kids
• The resolution options nobody explains: mediation, collaborative law, arbitration
• Why opening with your strongest move is so difficult to walk back
• Budgeting for the divorce and for life after it, professional by professional
• How to set boundaries with friends and family, and where to put the anger safely

⏱️ Chapters
0:00 Intro
1:00 The book, and why you have more say than you think
3:00 The leverage you hold before anyone has been told
5:00 Three kinds of preparation: emotional, expectations, logistics
6:00 The day in court that is never coming
7:00 Telling your kids, by age group
9:00 Grown children, and why it can land harder
13:00 The conflict, not the divorce, is what harms kids
15:00 Mediation, collaborative law, arbitration: the options nobody explains
19:00 Can I afford to divorce, and can I afford to be divorced?
22:00 You are the client, and you are paying the bills
27:00 Getting it out somewhere safe, not at your ex or your kids

Keep going 💜
Book a free 30-minute discovery call and we'll help you map your next steps: https://beentheregotout.com/call
📘 Been There Got Out: Toxic Relationships, High-Conflict Divorce, and How to Stay Sane Under Insane Circumstances — https://www.amazon.com/dp/194627495X
📘 Been There Got Out: When Your Ex Turns the Kids Against You (our parental-alienation book) — https://www.amazon.com/dp/1967674183
🔗 Chloe Oudiz, Divorce Differently: https://divorcewithchloe.com/
🔗 Don't Screw Up Your Divorce (the book): https://www.dontscrewupyourdivorce.com/

About Been There Got Out
Chris Barry and Lisa Johnson are high-conflict divorce, custody, and co-parenting strategists, and the founders of Been There Got Out. They know these cases from the inside: both have successfully represented themselves in family court. Few attorneys have a playbook for a case like this — Chris and Lisa write yours with you, so you and your kids can get through it as unscathed as possible.

Lisa's divorce attorney gave her one instruction above the others: protect your credit. Years later she is still finding out how much she did not know about how it works. This episode is the version of that conversation she wishes she had had at the time.

Derrick Diksa is a financial advisor at Black Diamond Financial Solutions in Delaware. Before this he worked at a large bank helping business owners build business credit, and he moved toward individual clients because of the people he kept meeting during transitions, divorce and the death of a spouse in particular. His focus is the person who delegated every financial decision for years and now has to know what is owed, to whom, and by when. Anyone who has been on the wrong side of a one-sided marriage will recognize the description.

He starts with store cards, which he calls traps, and explains why the danger is not the rate but the account you forget you have. From there he goes through what actually makes up a score: length of history at roughly fifteen percent, amounts owed at roughly thirty, and why both of those make closing an old unused card the wrong instinct. He explains authorized user versus primary guarantor, why only one of those two positions puts your credit at risk when a payment is missed, and the letter codes that tell you which one you are on each account.

The second half is protection. Secured cards and co-signers for someone with no credit history of their own. Why a credit card gives you liability protection a debit card does not. What to do the moment you find an account you never opened. And the credit freeze, which costs nothing, has to be placed separately at Equifax, Experian, and TransUnion, and stays in place until you lift it. Derrick keeps his own frozen year-round. He and Lisa close on the annual audit at annualcreditreport.com, and why the time to fix anything is the stretch when you are not applying for a thing.

As always, this is strategic education, not legal or mental-health advice for your specific situation.

🎓 What you'll learn

• Why store cards are the ones people forget, and how long a missed payment follows you
• Authorized user versus guarantor, and how to tell which you are from your own report
• Why the score in your banking app is not the score a lender sees
• Why closing an old unused card lowers your score twice over
• Utilization, and what happens when legal fees push one card near its limit
• Building credit from nothing: secured cards, co-signers, and what each one costs you
• Placing a free credit freeze at all three bureaus, and why he keeps his on permanently
• The annual audit at annualcreditreport.com, and the right moment to do it

⏱️ Chapters
0:00 Intro
1:00 Why store credit cards are traps
3:00 Working with people who never handled the money
5:00 Authorized user versus guarantor, and whose credit takes the hit
7:00 FICO, hard versus soft inquiries, and the score on your phone
11:00 Why closing old cards backfires
15:00 Utilization, and what legal fees on a credit card do to it
17:00 Building credit from nothing: secured cards and co-signers
20:00 Debit versus credit, identity theft, and free credit freezes
25:00 Reading your own credit report, line by line

Keep going 💜
Book a free 30-minute discovery call and we'll help you map your next steps: https://beentheregotout.com/call
📘 Been There Got Out: Toxic Relationships, High-Conflict Divorce, and How to Stay Sane Under Insane Circumstances — https://www.amazon.com/dp/194627495X
📘 Been There Got Out: When Your Ex Turns the Kids Against You (our parental-alienation book) — https://www.amazon.com/dp/1967674183
🔗 Black Diamond Financial Solutions: https://blackdiamondfs.com/
🔗 Derrick Diksa on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/derrickdiksa/

About Been There Got Out
Chris Barry and Lisa Johnson are high-conflict divorce, custody, and co-parenting strategists, and the founders of Been There Got Out. They know these cases from the inside: both have successfully represented themselves in family court. Few attorneys have a playbook for a case like this — Chris and Lisa write yours with you, so you and your kids can get through it as unscathed as possible.

Betrayal, in Leszek Erazmus's definition, is being deceived, harmed or let down by someone you trusted, in a way that goes against the values you thought you shared. What interests him is what it does afterward, which is that people stop living in ordinary time and start living in fight or flight, all day and then overnight, in a state the body was only ever built to hold for a few minutes.

Leszek Erazmus is a double certified life coach and a consulting hypnotist based in the Portland, Oregon area, working with clients online and in person. He has worked across a wide range of issues but has increasingly focused on betrayal, and he says why: he has been through two of his own, one that took him twenty years to process and one that took five, and he does not want anyone else spending a quarter of a century on it. He calls what someone comes out the other side of a rebirth, and is candid that the cost of that is something in you having to end.

He and Lisa start with the two directions betrayal pushes people. Outward, into anger at the person who did it, which at least generates energy. Or inward, into shame and questions about your own worth, which he considers the harder one because it can slowly rewrite someone's identity, with the betrayal itself submitted as the evidence. From there he spends time dismantling what people assume hypnosis is, and explains how it differs from talk therapy: cognitive and narrative on one side, experiential and metaphorical on the other, and no requirement to describe what happened. He is careful to say the two work well together and that severely traumatized people should keep the talk therapy going.

The second half turns to what Lisa calls systemic betrayal, where the harm is coming from the court rather than from a person, and where the sense of powerlessness is renewed at every hearing. Leszek's approach begins with rebuilding an internal place of safety, then uses a technique developed for combat veterans in which someone watches their own history at two removes and then alters what they are watching, which is aimed at loosening the link between an event and the meaning attached to it. He closes with something anyone can use tomorrow: pressing the toes into the floor, tensing and releasing the large muscles of the legs, gently rubbing the fingertips, and a longer self-touch routine called havening for the morning of a hearing.

As always, this is strategic education, not legal or mental-health advice for your specific situation.

🎓 What you'll learn

• What betrayal does to the nervous system, and why fight or flight isn't survivable long term
• The two directions betrayal sends people, and why the inward one is harder to reverse
• What therapeutic hypnosis actually is, and the myths that keep people away from it
• Why hypnosis doesn't require you to describe what happened to you
• How to work on betrayal by a system, not only betrayal by a person
• The movie theater technique, and putting space between an event and what it means
• Three grounding techniques you can use in a courtroom without anyone noticing
• Havening: the routine Leszek gives every client, and how to use it before a hearing

⏱️ Chapters
0:00 Intro
1:00 What betrayal is, and Leszek's own two
5:00 The two directions it sends people: outward anger, inward blame
8:00 Hypnosis myths: mind control, sleep, and spilling your secrets
11:00 What a session is, and how it sits alongside talk therapy
13:00 Why hypnosis doesn't require you to retell the story
17:00 The dominoes, and how the change shows up days later
18:00 Betrayal by the system, and rebuilding a sense of safety first
20:30 The movie theater technique, and space between event and meaning
25:00 Doom scrolling, agency, and giving up too soon
31:00 Three grounding techniques nobody will notice you doing
35:00 Havening, and how to use it before a hearing

Keep going 💜
Book a free 30-minute discovery call and we'll help you map your next steps: https://beentheregotout.com/call
📘 Been There Got Out: Toxic Relationships, High-Conflict Divorce, and How to Stay Sane Under Insane Circumstances — https://www.amazon.com/dp/194627495X
📘 Been There Got Out: When Your Ex Turns the Kids Against You (our parental-alienation book) — https://www.amazon.com/dp/1967674183
🔗 Become You Today: https://becomeyou.today/
🔗 Leszek on Instagram (@becomeyoutoday): https://www.instagram.com/becomeyoutoday/

About Been There Got Out
Chris Barry and Lisa Johnson are high-conflict divorce, custody, and co-parenting strategists, and the founders of Been There Got Out. They know these cases from the inside: both have successfully represented themselves in family court. Few attorneys have a playbook for a case like this — Chris and Lisa write yours with you, so you and your kids can get through it as unscathed as possible.

Every text you send your ex can resurface as an exhibit, read months later by a judge or a custody evaluator who was not there for the fight. Attorney Mia Poppe builds much of her advice around that fact, because the message you fire off to feel better today is often the one that undercuts you tomorrow.

Mia Poppe is a matrimonial attorney and the founder of a boutique, all-female firm in Midtown Manhattan, practicing across several New York counties. She has been on the show before, and she brings both sides of the table: she has represented clients through high-conflict custody litigation and lived through her own. She is deliberate about language, describing patterns of behavior rather than offering a clinical label for anyone's ex.

In this episode, Poppe and Lisa work through what she calls court culture, and why presenting as "mama bear" in the courtroom tends to get you bitten by the system while authentic emotion reads as credible. They talk about accepting that a high-conflict ex will keep behaving as they do, so false hope becomes its own injury, and why an opponent who is winning often overreaches if you give them room. Because communication outside court is communication inside court, she covers writing for the invisible audience, keeping clean hands, and the risk of leaning on AI to draft messages a sophisticated reader can spot.

The back half turns to steadiness: choosing support that pushes toward solutions instead of a fishbowl of grievances, detaching enough to function, and modeling regulation for your kids without bashing the other parent or clouding the truth. In the courtroom, she says, expect the lies, keep your face still, and look at the judge, never at the person across the aisle.

As always, this is strategic education, not legal or mental-health advice for your specific situation.

🎓 What you'll learn

• Why the judge is watching you, not your ex, and what your reactions signal
• Why coming in as "mama bear" backfires while genuine emotion reads as credible
• Accepting what is: a high-conflict ex keeps behaving as they do, and hope keeps hurting you
• Why an opponent who is overreaching will often expose themselves if you stay patient
• Your texts and emails are exhibits: write every message for the invisible audience
• Why leaning on AI to write your messages can be spotted by lawyers and judges
• Choosing support that drives toward solutions, not a fishbowl of grievances
• In court: expect the lies, keep your face still, and look at the judge, not your ex

⏱️ Chapters
0:00 Intro
1:00 Returning guest, and why reactivity decides so much
3:00 Court culture: how judges read you
5:00 Why "mama bear" gets bitten by the system
9:00 Describing behavior, not handing out a diagnosis
11:00 Accept what is: the playbook's first step
15:00 When a high-conflict ex overreaches
19:00 Communication outside court is communication inside court
23:00 Strategic communication, and a caution about AI
35:00 The effect on kids: being the emotional rock
41:00 In-court behavior: prepare, and look at the judge

Keep going 💜
Book a free 30-minute discovery call and we'll help you map your next steps: https://beentheregotout.com/call
📘 Been There Got Out: Toxic Relationships, High-Conflict Divorce, and How to Stay Sane Under Insane Circumstances — https://www.amazon.com/dp/194627495X
📘 Been There Got Out: When Your Ex Turns the Kids Against You (our parental-alienation book) — https://www.amazon.com/dp/1967674183
🔗 Kamelia "Mia" Poppe at the Law Firm of Poppe & Associates, PLLC: https://www.miapoppe.com/

🎧 More with Kamelia "Mia" Poppe on this podcast
Ep 64: A Family Lawyer's 3-Year Custody Battle, and the Turn
Ep 304: Running a High-Conflict Divorce Like a Business

About Been There Got Out
Chris Barry and Lisa Johnson are high-conflict divorce, custody, and co-parenting strategists, and the founders of Been There Got Out. They know these cases from the inside: both have successfully represented themselves in family court. Few attorneys have a playbook for a case like this — Chris and Lisa write yours with you, so you and your kids can get through it as unscathed as possible.

The mistake happens before the case even gets going. A parent decides they need to move, and they give the court the honest reason: to get away from a difficult ex. New York family lawyer Yoni Levoritz says that framing alone can end a relocation request, because it reads as an inability to support the child's relationship with the other parent.

Yoni Levoritz has practiced family law in New York since 2005, working out of Manhattan and across the boroughs, Westchester, and Long Island, and he handles complex matters rather than routine ones. He talks with Lisa about the two areas where getting the detail right early changes how the case goes later: how a relocation is argued, and what belongs in a parenting plan before anyone signs.

Yoni describes winning a relocation on appeal by setting the abuse arguments aside and building the case on the child's best interest and on the economics of an ex who paid no support. He and Lisa then go provision by provision through a parenting plan: a radius clause that most judges will honor even where it isn't strictly binding, therapy arranged while a child is young enough that it sticks, a secondary-education clause with a pro-rata split of the cost, and language that keeps a child's calls with the other parent private and unobserved. They also cover instant poverty syndrome, and how a vocational expert values what someone is capable of earning rather than what they happen to be earning during the divorce.

The listener questions land on enforcement, where plans usually break. Yoni favors counsel-fee awards so a violation costs something, argues for going straight back to court the first time visitation is blocked, and explains the right of first refusal and what to do when an ex ignores it repeatedly. Running underneath all of it is an idea Lisa took from him years ago: an abusive ex's anger, put in writing, can become the evidence that limits their access.

As always, this is strategic education, not legal or mental-health advice for your specific situation.

🎓 What you'll learn

• Why "I want to move away from my ex" can weaken a relocation case on its own
• How a denied relocation was won on appeal by arguing best interest and economics
• The parenting-plan provisions people forget: radius clause, therapy, college, private phone calls
• Why setting up a child's therapy early beats fighting for it once they are a teenager
• Instant poverty syndrome, and how a vocational expert values earning capacity over a bad year
• How counsel-fee awards create real consequences when an ex violates the plan
• Why blocking visitation even once can call for going straight back to court
• What a right of first refusal is, and what to do when it is repeatedly ignored

⏱️ Chapters
0:00 Intro
1:00 What a relocation is, and why distance isn't the whole story
3:00 The move-away mistake, and an appeal won on best interest
5:00 Your parenting plan as your constitution
7:00 Therapy provisions, and why early beats the teenage years
9:00 College and secondary-education clauses
13:00 Instant poverty syndrome and the vocational expert
17:00 "Their anger is your gold," and private phone calls
21:00 Enforcement: counsel fees and right of first refusal
25:00 Blocking visitation, sick kids, and health insurance
31:00 The radius clause, proving alienation, and finding Yoni

Keep going 💜
Book a free 30-minute discovery call and we'll help you map your next steps: https://beentheregotout.com/call
📘 Been There Got Out: Toxic Relationships, High-Conflict Divorce, and How to Stay Sane Under Insane Circumstances — https://www.amazon.com/dp/194627495X
📘 Been There Got Out: When Your Ex Turns the Kids Against You (our parental-alienation book) — https://www.amazon.com/dp/1967674183
🔗 Yoni Levoritz at The Levoritz Law Firm: https://www.levoritzlaw.com/

About Been There Got Out
Chris Barry and Lisa Johnson are high-conflict divorce, custody, and co-parenting strategists, and the founders of Been There Got Out. They know these cases from the inside: both have successfully represented themselves in family court. Few attorneys have a playbook for a case like this — Chris and Lisa write yours with you, so you and your kids can get through it as unscathed as possible.

Jeff Kaplan has practiced matrimonial law in New York for close to thirty years, and his whole message in this conversation is that your case is a partnership. The client who does their homework, stays honest, and keeps their conduct clean gives their lawyer something to work with. The client who hides things and fires off angry texts hands the other side the case.

Jeff Kaplan runs his own matrimonial and family law practice in Midtown Manhattan, working across the five boroughs and the surrounding counties. He is a returning guest, and this time the subject is the relationship between an attorney and the person they represent, and how to be the kind of client a good lawyer can genuinely go to bat for.

In this episode, Kaplan and Lisa cover how to vet a lawyer before you hire one and how to read your own distrust, since it often comes from disliking the truth rather than from bad lawyering. They talk about why a cordial relationship between opposing counsel tends to help settlement, how to handle a genuinely unreasonable opposing counsel by putting that unreasonableness before the court, and why social media and unfiltered messages come back as exhibits. He walks through full financial transparency, the statement of net worth, and being the party the judge trusts on discovery while your lawyer handles the other side's non-compliance.

He ends on candor and preparation: be honest with your attorney from the first meeting, because what you bury will surface in court, and expect a good lawyer to cross-examine you before trial on the questions you would least want to answer, including what you are actually asking the judge to order.

As always, this is strategic education, not legal or mental-health advice for your specific situation.

🎓 What you'll learn

• How to vet a lawyer before you hire, using people with firsthand experience, not reviews
• Why a good lawyer's honest bad news is working for you, not against you
• How to tell distrust of your lawyer from simply disliking the truth they're telling you
• Why friendly opposing counsel usually saves you money rather than plotting against you
• Handling an unreasonable opposing counsel by putting their conduct in front of the court
• Your texts and co-parenting-app messages are exhibits: respond measured, kill them with kindness
• Why full financial transparency early makes you the party the judge trusts on discovery
• Trial prep most people never picture: your own lawyer cross-examining you first

⏱️ Chapters
0:00 Intro
1:00 Welcome back: why the client relationship decides the case
3:00 Jeff's background: nearly thirty years of NYC matrimonial law
5:00 Your lawyer should know your case cold
9:00 Vetting a lawyer, and when you stop trusting yours
11:00 Delivering honest bad news and managing expectations
13:00 "Is my lawyer conspiring with my ex's lawyer?"
19:00 Handling a difficult, unreasonable opposing counsel
25:00 Social media and texts become exhibits
29:00 Financial transparency and the statement of net worth
43:00 Trial prep: cross-examining your own client

Keep going 💜
Book a free 30-minute discovery call and we'll help you map your next steps: https://beentheregotout.com/call
📘 Been There Got Out: Toxic Relationships, High-Conflict Divorce, and How to Stay Sane Under Insane Circumstances — https://www.amazon.com/dp/194627495X
📘 Been There Got Out: When Your Ex Turns the Kids Against You (our parental-alienation book) — https://www.amazon.com/dp/1967674183
🔗 Jeff Kaplan at J. Kaplan & Associates, PLLC: https://www.kaplanlawny.com/

🎧 More with Jeff Kaplan on this podcast
Ep 85: Getting a Stalled High-Conflict Divorce Moving

About Been There Got Out
Chris Barry and Lisa Johnson are high-conflict divorce, custody, and co-parenting strategists, and the founders of Been There Got Out. They know these cases from the inside: both have successfully represented themselves in family court. Few attorneys have a playbook for a case like this — Chris and Lisa write yours with you, so you and your kids can get through it as unscathed as possible.

Grief has stages, and the stages need room to happen. An ex who keeps filing motions, keeps reappearing, and keeps running things through the children is taking that room away. Jessica Anne Pressler calls grief a luxury for people in high-conflict divorces, and it is the sharpest idea in this episode.

Jessica Anne Pressler is a licensed clinical social worker who has worked as a psychotherapist since 1988, with couples, families and individuals, and who spent sixteen-plus years as a hospice social worker before moving to volunteering. She also spent years conducting court-ordered custody and visitation evaluations. She is not currently in practice, and now writes and works publicly on mental health, with a framework she calls the Traitor Within. She is also open that she has lived this: several toxic relationships, a divorce, and the grief that followed.

She begins by widening what grief means, since most people reserve it for death, and then explains why the end of an abusive relationship produces a version of it that is harder to move through. Trauma bonding, and why intermittent good moments create something that behaves like an addiction. Hoovering, and why it happens even when the other person does not want you back, because control and a reaction will do just as well. The cognitive dissonance that has you writing explanations for behavior you would not accept from anyone else. And the secondary losses that come with any divorce, on top of which someone leaving a toxic marriage is also grieving what they believed it was.

The second half is about getting out from under it. Boundaries, and cutting contact including the second-hand kind through social media. Why she insists on a trauma-informed therapist, having been made to feel like the problem by one who was not. Journaling, rebuilding a life that is not organized around managing another person's mood, and stepping away from anyone still carrying messages back and forth. She introduces the traitor within, the self-sabotaging pattern she traces in her own case to what she watched the women in her family do. Jessica and Lisa also talk about children being used as leverage, using an image from Jessica's father that stayed with her, and about preparing for mediation when the other side is actively working to get a reaction out of you. Both are clear on one point: these relationships do not happen to weak people.

As always, this is strategic education, not legal or mental-health advice for your specific situation.

🎓 What you'll learn

• What grief is, and why the end of a toxic relationship gets grieved differently
• Trauma bonding, and why missing someone who hurt you isn't a character problem
• Hoovering: what it looks like, and why it's about control rather than wanting you back
• Why grief becomes a luxury when someone keeps pulling you back into court
• How to break the bond: boundaries, cutting the feeds, and a trauma-informed therapist
• The traitor within: the self-sabotaging pattern, and where it usually comes from
• Why abusers target capable, empathetic people rather than the other way round
• Why an ex keeps coming after you long after they've moved on

⏱️ Chapters
0:00 Intro
1:00 What grief actually is, and Jessica's background
3:30 Trauma bonding, and the addictive part of it
6:00 Hoovering, and why it isn't about wanting you back
7:30 Why grief is a luxury when someone keeps pulling you back
10:00 Boundaries, and cutting off every feed
10:30 Finding a therapist who gets it, and being re-injured by one who doesn't
13:00 The traitor within, and where it comes from
16:00 Grieving a healthy ending vs grieving a toxic one
19:00 Losing faith in your judgment, and who abusers actually target
25:00 Supply after the split, and children used as leverage
29:30 Mediation, fear, and getting the voice out of your head

Keep going 💜
Book a free 30-minute discovery call and we'll help you map your next steps: https://beentheregotout.com/call
📘 Been There Got Out: Toxic Relationships, High-Conflict Divorce, and How to Stay Sane Under Insane Circumstances — https://www.amazon.com/dp/194627495X
📘 Been There Got Out: When Your Ex Turns the Kids Against You (our parental-alienation book) — https://www.amazon.com/dp/1967674183
🔗 Jessica Anne Pressler, LCSW: https://www.jessicaannepressler.com/
🔗 Traitor Within: https://www.traitorwithin.com/

About Been There Got Out
Chris Barry and Lisa Johnson are high-conflict divorce, custody, and co-parenting strategists, and the founders of Been There Got Out. They know these cases from the inside: both have successfully represented themselves in family court. Few attorneys have a playbook for a case like this — Chris and Lisa write yours with you, so you and your kids can get through it as unscathed as possible.

Parents walk into court with a folder of school emails, a diagnosis, and an article they found online. The other side asks why no specialist was ever asked to evaluate the child. That gap is where a legal nurse consultant works.

Our guest is Tara Zacharzuk-Marciano, a registered nurse of 25 years with a PhD in nursing education. She spent ten years in academia and nearly five as a lead surgical services educator for a health system before adding legal nurse consulting, which is the work she and Lisa focus on here: reviewing medical records for attorneys, identifying standards of care and deviations from them, and putting complex clinical material into language a court can follow. She is emphatic that she is a nurse and not an attorney, and that the opinions in her reports belong to the treating clinicians and the research, not to her.

The scenario Tara and Lisa work through will be familiar to anyone with joint legal custody and a child who needs care an ex will not agree to. Tara describes going through records for the documentation supporting a diagnosis, the treatments offered, and what the school has sent to the physician, then adding peer-reviewed research and, where it helps, an expert who can speak to both.

They also cover the part that matters if you are the one taking the stand. Tara coordinates with attorneys on questions for direct and cross, and she deliberately argues the other side so a parent hears the difficult questions before opposing counsel asks them. As Lisa points out, people who have come out of an abusive relationship tend to present as scattered under pressure, and knowing what is coming is what steadies them.

The last stretch is practical. Why working through your attorney keeps her findings out of the other side's hands. What she looks for in a case involving abuse or addiction, including the specialist evaluation nobody thought to schedule. And the record-keeping she asks every client to do: which doctors you saw and when, and copies of the portal messages that never arrive with the official records.

As always, this is strategic education, not legal or mental-health advice for your specific situation.

🎓 What you'll learn

• What a legal nurse consultant does, and where they fit on your team
• How to support a disputed diagnosis or IEP when your ex refuses to agree to treatment
• How records, peer-reviewed research, and an expert witness stack into one argument
• How to prepare for testimony by hearing the other side's questions first
• Why retaining her through your attorney keeps her work product confidential
• What is often missing from a file in an abuse or addiction case
• Why one overlooked sentence in a medical record can carry a case
• The documentation habits to start now, including your doctor's portal messages

⏱️ Chapters
0:00 Intro
1:00 What a legal nurse consultant actually does
3:00 When your ex disputes the diagnosis or the IEP
5:00 Records, peer-reviewed research, and expert witnesses
7:00 Preparing for testimony and the cross-examination you should expect
9:00 The nurse as advocate, and why staying calm changes your presentation
11:00 The range of cases: ADHD, addiction, disability, abuse
13:00 Working through your attorney, and how she gets paid
15:00 Confidentiality, and keeping findings away from the other side
17:00 What is missing from your child's records
21:00 Documentation habits: visits, portal messages, and email

Keep going 💜
Book a free 30-minute discovery call and we'll help you map your next steps: https://beentheregotout.com/call
📘 Been There Got Out: Toxic Relationships, High-Conflict Divorce, and How to Stay Sane Under Insane Circumstances — https://www.amazon.com/dp/194627495X
📘 Been There Got Out: When Your Ex Turns the Kids Against You (our parental-alienation book) — https://www.amazon.com/dp/1967674183
🔗 Tara Zacharzuk-Marciano, TZM Legal Nurse Consultant: https://tzmlegalnurseconsultant.com/

About Been There Got Out
Chris Barry and Lisa Johnson are high-conflict divorce, custody, and co-parenting strategists, and the founders of Been There Got Out. They know these cases from the inside: both have successfully represented themselves in family court. Few attorneys have a playbook for a case like this — Chris and Lisa write yours with you, so you and your kids can get through it as unscathed as possible.