Coaching for Leaders

David Schonthal: The Human Element

David Schonthal is an award-winning Professor of Strategy, Innovation & Entrepreneurship at the Kellogg School of Management where he teaches courses on new venture creation, design thinking, healthcare innovation and creativity. In addition to his teaching, he also serves as the Director of Entrepreneurship Programs and the Faculty Director of the Zell Fellows Program.

Along with his colleague Loran Nordgren, David is one of the originators of Friction Theory – a ground-breaking methodology that explains why even the most promising innovations and change initiatives often struggle to gain traction with their intended audiences – and what to do about it. He is the author with Loran of The Human Element: Overcoming the Resistance That Awaits New Ideas*.

In this conversation, David and I discuss how leaders can do a better job at helping others overcome resistance to a new idea. We explore the distinction between friction and fuel — and why leaders tend to miss opportunities to reduce friction. David also shares several, practical strategies that almost all of us can use to reduce the weight of friction with those we are trying to influence.

Key Points

When introducing something new, we tend to think more about fuel than we do about friction. Both are essential for traction.

Repetition is missed opportunity in most organizations. Leaders tend to want to perfect the details too much.

Start small with a beacon project to prototype the value change may bring to the organization.

Leaning in on making a new idea prototypical will help it be more familiar to those you are trying to influence. Emphasize what is similar — not just what is new.

Analogies can help bridge the gap between the new and the familiar. Use an analogy the audience can relate to.

Adding an extreme option and/or an undesirable can help transform inertia from a friction into a fuel.

Resources Mentioned

The Human Element: Overcoming the Resistance That Awaits New Ideas* by Loren Nordgren and David Schonthal

Related Episodes

How to Succeed with Leadership and Management, with John Kotter (episode 249)

How to Pivot Quickly, with Steve Blank (episode 476)

The Way Innovators Get Traction, with Tendayi Viki (episode 512)

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Jodi-Ann Burey: End Imposter Syndrome in Your Workplace

Jodi-Ann Burey is a sought-after speaker and writer who works at the intersections of race, culture, and health equity. Her TED talk, “The Myth of Bringing Your Full Authentic Self to Work,” embodies her disruption of traditional narratives about racism at work. Jodi-Ann is also the creator and host of Black Cancer, a podcast about the lives of people of color through their cancer journeys.

She is the author, with Ruchika Tulshyan, of two recent Harvard Business Review articles: Stop Telling Women They Have Imposter Syndrome and End Imposter Syndrome in Your Workplace.

In this conversation, Jodi-Ann and I challenge that notion that imposter syndrome is something that an individual should address alone. Instead, we invite managers and organizations to begin to consider their own contributions to “imposter syndrome” and how we can work together with employees to help everybody move forward. We highlight several key actions that managers can take to begin to end imposter syndrome inside of their organizations.

Key Points

Managers and organizations tend to address the symptoms of imposter syndrome, but not the source.

Those who experience imposter syndrome often feel like it is “death by a thousand paper cuts.”

Managers can help by reinforcing an employee’s belief in their abilities and chances of success. Listen for what employees are asking for — and explore when they are silent.

Managers should be transparent about an organization’s locked doors — and demonstrate that they are also willing to be vulnerable.

In private conversations, managers should redirect perceptions and language that do not accurately reflect the value of their employees.

Resources Mentioned

Stop Telling Women They Have Imposter Syndrome by Jodi-Ann Burey and Ruchika Tulshyan

End Imposter Syndrome in Your Workplace by Jodi-Ann Burey and Ruchika Tulshyan

Interview Notes

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Related Episodes

Three Steps to Great Career Conversations, with Russ Laraway (episode 370)

What You Gain By Sponsoring People, with Julia Taylor Kennedy (episode 398)

The Way Managers Can be Champions for Justice, with Minda Harts (episode 552)

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Sukhinder Singh Cassidy: Choose Possibility

Sukhinder Singh Cassidy is a leading technology executive and entrepreneur, board member, and investor with twenty-five years of experience founding and helping to scale companies, including Google, Amazon, and Yodlee. Most recently, she served as president of StubHub, which thrived under her leadership and sold in 2020 right before the pandemic for $4+ billion.

She is the founder and chairman of the Boardlist and has been profiled in Fortune, Forbes, The Wall Street Journal, Business Week, and The New York Times, among others. She has been named one of Elle’s Power Women, one of the Most Creative People in Business by Fast Company, and one of the Top 100 People in the Valley by Business Insider. She is the author of Choose Possibility: Take Risks and Thrive (Even When You Fail)*.

In this conversation, Sukhinder and I discuss how to handle a transition in a way that works for both you and the organization you’re leaving. We discuss the value of proactive communication and clear timelines — plus some of the hidden costs of transitioning poorly. Finally, we made the invitation to consider transitions in the context of your long-term career goals.

Key Points

Don’t leave before you leave. Putting in maximum effort until you’re gone protects your reputation and the impact you’ve worked to achieve.

Beware the cost of lingering. You likely know the right timeframe for your departure — use that to frame your transition.

Leave opportunity in your wake. Use remaining time to set the team up for success, provide coaching and mentoring, and make it an easier transition for others.

Tie up loose ends before you depart. Leave the team an organization in a place you would want to inherit if you were the new leader coming in.

Take small steps, middle steps, and big steps. Avoid fixating on the myth of the single choice. Careers come together with many choices, over time.

Resources Mentioned

Choose Possibility: Take Risks and Thrive (Even When You Fail)* by Sukhinder Singh Cassidy

Related Episodes

How to Challenge Directly and Care Personally, with Kim Scott (episode 302)

The Way to Make Better Decisions, with Annie Duke (episode 499)

Making the Case for Your Promotion, with May Busch (episode 526)

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Liz Wiseman: Impact Players

Liz Wiseman is a researcher and executive advisor. She is the author of the New York Times bestseller Multipliers: How the Best Leaders Make Everyone Smarter*, The Multiplier Effect: Tapping the Genius Inside Our Schools*, and Wall Street Journal bestseller Rookie Smarts*. She is the CEO of The Wiseman Group, a leadership research and development firm headquartered in Silicon Valley.

Her clients include: Apple, Disney, Facebook, Google, Microsoft, Tesla, Twitter, and many others. Liz has been listed on the Thinkers50 ranking and named one of the top 10 leadership thinkers in the world. She is a former Oracle executive, who worked over the course of 17 years as the Vice President of Oracle University and as the global leader for Human Resource Development.

Liz is the author of Impact Players: How to Take the Lead, Play Bigger, and Multiply Your Impact*. In this conversation, Liz and I discuss the mindset that’s most useful in making real traction in an organization. Plus, we explore practical steps that you can take to think bigger and get noticed for your work.

Key Points

The #1 thing managers appreciate: when employees do things that need doing without being asked.

Upward empathy is the ability to consider what the bosses situation feels like — and what they need from you.

Pursuing your passion sounds nice in a commencement speech, but can get in the way of what the organization actually needs.

A job description might be a starting point, but it’s almost never the ending point.

Beware of becoming the foosball player that does hard work in one spot, but misses the bigger picture. Become a nimble midfielder who plays where they are most needed.

Resources Mentioned

Impact Players: How to Take the Lead, Play Bigger, and Multiply Your Impact* by Liz Wiseman

The Wiseman Group

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

The Benefit of Being a Rookie, with Liz Wiseman (episode 340)

Influence Through Overlapping Networks, with Sandie Morgan (episode 422)

How to Motivate Leaders, with John Maxwell (episode 452)

Keep Your Ideas From Being Stolen (Dave’s Journal)

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David Hutchens: Story Dash

David Hutchens helps leaders find and tell their stories. He works with leaders around the world to find, craft, and tell their most urgent stories for the purpose of creating shared meaning, preserving culture, disseminating learning, and speeding change in organizations.

He has taught the Storytelling Leader program at some of the most influential organizations — and he’s written many books, including the Circle of the 9 Muses* and The Leadership Story Deck*. He is the co-creator with longtime friend of the show Susan Gerke of the GO Team program. He's also the author of the new book, Story Dash: Find, Develop, and Activate Your Most Valuable Business Stories...In Just a Few Hours*.

In this conversation, David and I revisit the power of storytelling and highlight where many leaders go wrong. We explore the common mistakes that David sees in his work all over the world. Plus, we invite listeners into a few practical actions that will help stories land with better impact.

Key Points

Four mistakes that leaders make:

They are not storytelling, sometimes because they don’t see themselves as storytellers or feel like they are performing.

They don’t connect the story to the strategic intent but never clearly answering the “why am I telling this story?” question.

They avoid emotional content of stories because they either don’t want to be emotional or are presenting to a “numbers person.”

They expect it to just happen, instead of making intentional effort to make it happen.

Resources Mentioned

To receive David Hutchen’s Story Canvas, reach out to him at [email protected] and tell him one valuable tip you gained from this episode.

Interview Notes

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Related Episodes

The Four Critical Stories Leaders Need For Influence, with David Hutchens (episode 148)

The Way to Influence Executives, with Nancy Duarte (episode 450)

The Way to Earn Attention, with Raja Rajamannar (episode 521)

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Minda Harts: Right Within

Minda Harts is the founder and CEO of The Memo and an advocate for women of color in the workplace. She is a sought-after speaker and thought-leader, frequently speaking on topics of advancing women of color, leadership, diversity, and entrepreneurship. She was named a LinkedIn Top Voice for Equity in the Workplace and was honored as one of BET’s Future 40. She has been a featured speaker at TEDx Harlem, Nike, Levi's, Bloomberg, Google, SXSW, and many other places.

She is an adjunct assistant professor of public service at NYU. She also hosts Secure the Seat, a career podcast for women of color. Minda is the author of the bestselling book The Memo* and now her new book Right Within: How to Heal From Racial Trauma in the Workplace*.

In this conversation, Minda and I discuss the daily actions that managers can do to support inclusion in the workplace, especially for women of color. We explore the unfortunate realities of systemic racism that still show up in many workplaces and how we can all do better. Plus, Minda invites us to consider the Manager’s Pledge and six key ways we can bring more equity into our organizations.

Key Points

The State of Black Women in Corporate America report finds that in 2020, Black women held 1.6 percent of vice president roles and 1.4 percent of executive suite positions.

When someone says something racially charged, one of two things tend to happen: laugher or silence. We can do better.

You don’t need to be the hero, but you do have a responsibility to start.

All of us will mess up. Take inspiration from the Japanese art of Kintsugi, where the broken pieces reassembled become more beautiful than the original.

We often miss the opportunities that are right in front of us. Starting there is how each of us bring justice into the world.

Resources Mentioned

Right Within: How to Heal From Racial Trauma in the Workplace* by Minda Harts

Minda’s website

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

How to Build Psychological Safety, with Amy Edmondson (episode 404)

How to Support Women of Color, with Minda Harts (episode 506)

How to Reduce Bias in Feedback, with Therese Huston (episode 510)

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Vanessa Bohns: You Have More Influence Than You Think

Vanessa Bohns is a social psychologist, an award-winning researcher and teacher, and a professor of organizational behavior at Cornell University.

Her writing and research has been published in top academic journals in psychology, management, and law and has also been featured in the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, Harvard Business Review, and NPR's Hidden Brain. Her book is titled You Have More Influence Than You Think: How We Underestimate Our Power of Persuasion, and Why It Matters*.

In this conversation, Vanessa and I explore the conclusions of research: we often don’t recognize our own power. We detail some of the common patterns that leaders should watch for in their work. Most importantly, we discuss the practical steps that almost anybody can take to use power more responsibly.

Key Points

Power can lead people to underestimate their words and actions. A powerful person's whisper can sound more like a shout to the person they have power over.

Power tends to lead people to ignore the perspective of others and to feel freer to do whatever they want.

The effects of power are not inevitable. You can do better for others by thinking about power as responsibility.

Adopt the lens of a third party in order to see the impact of your actions on others.

To feel your impact better, ask people what they aren thinking of feeling, rather than simply imagining or assuming.

One way to experience your influence by taking action to give positive recognition and feedback.

Resources Mentioned

You Have More Influence Than You Think: How We Underestimate Our Power of Persuasion, and Why It Matters* by Vanessa Bohns

Interview Notes

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Related Episodes

Use Power for Good and Not Evil, with Dacher Keltner (episode 254)

How to Create Meaningful Gatherings, with Priya Parker (episode 395)

How to Negotiate When Others Have Power, with Kwame Christian (episode 416)

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Dorie Clark: The Long Game

Dorie Clark has been named one of the Top 50 business thinkers in the world by Thinkers50, and was recognized as the #1 Communication Coach in the world by the Marshall Goldsmith Leading Global Coaches Awards. She is a consultant and keynote speaker and teaches executive education at Duke University’s Fuqua School of Business and Columbia Business School.

Dorie is the author of the bestselling books Entrepreneurial You, Reinventing You, and Stand Out which was named the #1 Leadership Book of the Year by Inc. Magazine. She has been described by the New York Times as an “expert at self-reinvention and helping others make changes in their lives.” She is a frequent contributor to Harvard Business Review and is now the author of her latest book, The Long Game: How to Be a Long-Term Thinker in a Short-Term World*.

In this conversation, Dorie and I discuss how to win the long game, even when things look bleak today. We examine the typical timelines that most professionals should expect in order to get traction on their work. Plus, we highlight three key questions to ask yourself during the toughest times.

Key Points

It’s often 2-3 years of sustained work before you see noticeable progress.

To become a recognized expert, you should expect at least five years of consistent effort.

People revisit strategy too often when instead they should often continue to follow their action plan.

Even if you end up “losing,” strategize up front how the time and effort you put in is still a win.

When times are toughest, ask three questions:

Why am I doing this?

How has it worked for others?

What do my trusted advisors say?

Resources Mentioned

The Long Game: How to Be a Long-Term Thinker in a Short-Term World* by Dorie Clark

Long Game Strategic Thinking Self-Assessment

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

The Value of Being Uncomfortable, with Neil Pasricha (episode 448)

How to Find Helpful Advisors, with Ethan Kross (episode 516)

Making the Case for Your Promotion, with May Busch (episode 526)

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Nicol Verheem: Teradek

Nicol Verheem is a globally recognized leader and innovator, senior business executive, serial entrepreneur, and prolific angel investor. He has been recognized for his impact in the film industry with a lifetime achievement award from the Society of Camera Operators and an Academy Award for Sciences and Engineering, also known as a Technical Oscar. He was also recently recognized with the Innovator of the Year Award from the leading business journal in Orange County, California.

Nicol currently serves on the Executive Management Board of The Vitec Group, as the Divisional CEO of Creative Solutions, and as the CEO of Teradek. As a technology leader, his is responsible for the strategy, roadmap, and execution of Teradek’s highly recognized high tech video products driving more than $100M annual revenue -- with dominant market share across the globe. He is also a member of the Coaching for Leaders Academy.

In this conversation, Nicol and I discuss how to take the ideas you hear in books, presentations, and podcasts — and make them your own. Nicol shares many examples of how he has done this in his organization in order grow a team that was ultimately recognized with an Academy Award. Plus, we discuss some of his mindsets that have helped drive the success of Teradek over the years.

Key Points

Leadership models aren’t always molded to your organization or situation. Adapt the idea to make it a better fit for you.

Well intended language by an expert might not match the culture of your organization. Don’t hesitate to change a word or phrase to make sense to your team.

Build relationships today with the people who will grow with you throughout your career. That’s “networking for commoners.”

When interviewing, ask people about their hobbies or interests in order to discover if you can lead them to live out their passions.

Resources Mentioned

We'd Like to Thank the Academy by Teradek

Coaching for Leaders Academy

Related Episodes

How to Know What You Don’t Know, with Art Markman (episode 437)

How to Build an Invincible Company, with Alex Osterwalder (episode 470)

Start Finding Overlooked Talent, with Johnny Taylor, Jr. (episode 544)

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Ashley Brundage: Empowering Differences

Ashley Brundage is the Founder and President of Empowering Differences. She's overcame homelessness, harassment, and discrimination and then, while seeking employment at a major financial institution, she self-identified during the interview process as a male to female transgender woman and subsequently was hired. She was offered a position and started as a part time bank teller and worked in various lines of business before moving to VP of Diversity & Inclusion in less than 5 years.

Since beginning transitioning in 2008, she has worked tirelessly to promote awareness and acceptance of gender identity and expression. She serves on the Corporate Advisory Council for the National LGBT Chamber of Commerce. In 2019, she was voted on the National Board of Directors for GLAAD and has also been named one of Florida’s Most Powerful and Influential Women from the National Diversity Council. She is the author of Empowering Differences: Leveraging Differences to Impact Change*.

In this conversation, Ashley and I discuss her experience in the working world as a transgender woman. We highlight key language that every leader should be aware of to support the differences of others. Plus, we discuss the initial steps that leaders can take in the workplace, especially related to gender identity.

Key Points

The harassment and discrimination that transgender people experience also finds its way into the workplace.

Respect people’s pronouns — and leaders can highlight their own in order to create a safe space for others.

Comfort and ability to use the restroom is something that organizations should address. A helpful starting point is dialogue and conversation.

Beware of binary thinking in relation to gender — and many other ways we identify ourselves. Expand your horizon on the gender continuum.

Resources Mentioned

Empowering Differences: Leveraging Differences to Impact Change* by Ashley Brundage

Empowering Differences Self Assessment

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

What You Gain By Sponsoring People, with Julia Taylor Kennedy (episode 398)

How to Reduce Bias in Feedback, with Therese Huston (episode 510)

Start Finding Overlooked Talent, with Johnny Taylor, Jr. (episode 544)

Discover More

Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic.