Disarming Leviathan Podcast

What can America’s political and religious polarization learn from the history of Northern Ireland? In this episode, David Montgomery (”Monty”) reflects on decades of sectarian conflict and explains how fear, political identity, and religious symbolism became deeply intertwined in his own country. Drawing on his work with university students across Europe, Monty offers a thoughtful warning about the dangers of conflating national identity with Christian faith and invites believers to recover a vision of the church that transcends political tribes. Rather than calling Christians to build a “Christian nation,” he points us back to the kingdom of God and the cruciform way of Jesus.

David Montgomery, known as "Monty," serves with International Fellowship of Evangelical Students, helping equip and support evangelical student movements across Europe. Based in Northern Ireland, he has spent decades working with university students, teaching Scripture, and helping Christians faithfully engage culture in increasingly polarized societies.

Was the United States founded as a Christian nation? In this episode, historian Warren Throckmorton separates popular myths from the historical record, exploring what America's founders actually believed about Christianity, religious liberty, and the relationship between church and state. Together, we examine why the founders intentionally created a government without an established religion, how religious freedom has strengthened both the church and the nation, and what faithful patriotism looks like in a country marked by both remarkable ideals and profound failures.

Warren Throckmorton is a historian, researcher, and author whose work focuses on American religious history, Christian nationalism, and the historical claims surrounding the nation's founding. His book, The Christian Past That Wasn't, carefully examines the stories Americans tell about their origins and challenges readers to distinguish historical evidence from popular mythology.

Most political debates skirt the core question: What does it mean to live as a faithful outpost of God's kingdom today? Michael Rhodes challenges us to root our political engagement in Scripture's vision of justice, love, and humility, emphasizing that biblical teachings expand our options—beyond the simplistic slogans of modern politics.

You'll discover how Scripture illuminates the role of God's people as counter-cultural witnesses—live outposts dedicated first and foremost to Jesus’ reign. We break down concrete ways the Bible guides our approach to issues such as concentration of power, economic justice, and the common good, emphasizing wisdom, humility, and lived-out love. From early biblical models like Daniel and Esther to contemporary applications, this episode invites believers to see politics as part of their discipleship—an opportunity to witness, serve, and pursue justice in every sphere.

About Michael Rhodes

Michael J. Rhodes is an Old Testament scholar, author, and teacher whose work explores how Scripture shapes the public life and political witness of God’s people. He serves as Associate Professor of Old Testament at Carey Baptist College in New Zealand and is the author and co-author of several books, including Practicing the King’s Economy, Just Discipleship, and his newest release, Reimagining Biblical Politics: What Scripture Says About Public Life and Why It Matters. Through his writing and teaching, Michael invites Christians to recover the strange, beautiful, and often-overlooked political imagination of the Bible and to embody a faithful witness in their churches, neighborhoods, and communities.

Show Notes* 01:07 - Rooting our politics in Scripture’s portrayal of God’s reign

* 02:33 - Living as outposts of God’s kingdom in a divided world

* 03:56 - Expanding the political toolbox through biblical narratives

* 05:27 - Applying biblical wisdom to modern policy issues, such as unions

* 08:40 - Models for faithful engagement in governance and justice

* 11:06 - How to listen to biblical voices and interpret Scripture today

* 12:35 - Understanding God’s economic priorities for the marginalized

* 14:30 - The biblical critique of the concentration of power

* 16:20 - The importance of wisdom and unintended consequences in policy debates

* 19:12 - Stories of faithful Christians living out biblical justice

* 20:35 - Recognizing the complexity of love and justice at a societal level

* 23:24 - The church’s role in shaping faithful political engagement

* 26:27 - How everyday believers can exercise justice in their spheres of influence

* 30:35 - The joy and purpose of integrating faith with public life

Resources & Links:

* Reimagining Biblical Politics by Michael Rhodes

* Just Discipleship — Michael Rhodes’ book on economics, wages, and justice

* Crossroads Substack — Michael Rhodes’ newsletter and podcast series

What happens when a theology of hierarchy, control, and male authority moves from the margins into the mainstream? In this episode, Margaret Bronson shares her firsthand experience growing up in a patriarchal Christian Nationalist movement that emphasized male dominance, rigid gender roles, homeschooling, and authoritarian leadership. Drawing on both personal story and historical analysis, Margaret explains how these ideas spread through churches, seminaries, and family systems, and why many Christians are encountering them with increasing frequency today. Together, we explore the difference between the gospel of Jesus and religious movements built on fear, control, and domination—and discuss how curiosity, compassion, and pastoral presence can help people find a healthier path forward.

Margaret Bronson is a writer, speaker, and advocate who helps people recover from spiritually abusive and authoritarian religious environments. Having grown up within a patriarchal Christian Nationalist movement, Margaret brings a unique insider perspective to conversations about power, theology, family systems, and faith. Through her work with Deconstruction Doulas, she helps individuals process religious trauma, reconnect with their own stories, and pursue healthier expressions of faith and community.

What happens when the symbols commonly associated with Christian Nationalism mean something entirely different to the people displaying them?

In this episode, Caleb sits down with Arizona State University professor, veteran, and pastor John Mark Sianghio to explore how Christian Nationalism is experienced and expressed within immigrant communities, particularly among Filipino-American churches. Drawing from his research, John Mark argues that while the dominant form of Christian Nationalism in America is deeply intertwined with white supremacy, immigrant communities often relate faith and nation in ways that challenge simple categories.

Together they discuss patriotic church services, American flags in sanctuaries, military memorials, civic nationalism, immigration, public theology, and the complicated role symbols play in shaping communal identity. The conversation invites listeners to move beyond assumptions, approach others with curiosity, and consider how immigrant communities may offer alternative ways of imagining faithfulness in public life.

About John Marc Sianghio John Marc is a scholar, pastor, veteran, and researcher at the Center for the Study of Religion and Conflict at Arizona State University. His work explores Christian Nationalism, immigration, civic identity, and the ways faith communities navigate questions of nation, belonging, and public life.

For many Americans, conversations about refugees happen at the level of politics, policy, and headlines. In this episode, Clint Leavitt invites us into a different starting place: the stories of real people. Drawing from his friendship with a Congolese refugee and the research behind his book Cockroaches, God, Death and Mangos, Clint shares how personal relationships transformed his understanding of refugees, Scripture, and the church’s calling to welcome the stranger. Together, we explore how fear shapes our public imagination, what Christians miss when refugees are excluded from our communities, and practical ways ordinary people can love their refugee neighbors.

Clint Leavitt is a pastor at Midtown Presbyterian Church in Phoenix, Arizona, a writer, educator, and advocate for refugees and displaced people. He is the co-author of the book Cockroaches, God, Death and Mangos, which tells the story of a Congolese family displaced by war and resettled in the United States. Through his pastoral ministry, teaching, and writing, Clint helps Christians engage issues of justice, hospitality, and public life with compassion and theological depth.

In this insightful interview, Mary Kaech from Phoenix Refugee Connections shares the history, current challenges, and opportunities in refugee resettlement in the U.S., emphasizing the importance of community involvement, faith, and understanding. Discover how refugees contribute to local communities and how Christians can actively participate in welcoming and supporting their neighbors.

https://phxrc.org/

https://womenofwelcome.com/

00:00Understanding Phoenix Refugee Connections

03:23The State of Refugee Resettlement in America

06:15The Refugee Experience and Community Integration

09:26Economic and Social Contributions of Refugees

12:32The Role of Faith and Community in Refugee Lives

15:12How to Get Involved and Advocate for Refugees

18:21Addressing Fear and Misconceptions about Refugees

In this in-depth interview, Matthew Soerens discusses the global refugee crisis, U.S. immigration policies, and the biblical perspective on caring for refugees and immigrants. He highlights recent policy changes, the economic and moral implications, and offers practical ways for evangelicals and citizens to advocate for humane immigration reform.

Chapters

00:00 Understanding the Refugee Crisis

01:59 Current State of Refugee Resettlement

05:07 Impact of Immigration Enforcement

08:58 The Cost of Immigration Policies

12:39 Advocacy and Political Responsibility

19:14 Engaging with Congress

24:53 The Role of Evangelicals in Immigration

Seeking Refuge - https://amzn.to/4vc6xtF

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/matthewsoerens/

Website - https://www.worldrelief.org/

Daniel Yang discusses the significance of Refugee Day, the history and current state of refugee resettlement in the U.S., and the role of the church in welcoming and supporting refugees. He shares personal stories, historical context, and practical ways for individuals and churches to engage compassionately.

Chapters

00:00 Understanding Refugee Awareness and Its Importance

02:18 Personal Stories: The Refugee Experience

04:31 Shifts in Refugee Policies and Their Impact

07:37 Defining Refugees: Life on the Run

10:05 Current State of Refugee Programs

14:21 The Church's Role in Refugee Care

19:12 Refugees as Contributors to Society

24:23 Navigating Conversations About Refugees

resources

World Relief - https://www.worldrelief.org/

Refugee Day - https://www.un.org/en/observances/refugee-day

Advocacy Resources - https://worldrelief.org/advocate

This June, we will publish a special series of interviews related to World Refugee Awareness Month.

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