Disarming Leviathan Podcast

Who do you want to see on the pod?We are recording the next season of the Disarming Leviathan podcast! Let us know who you want to see on the pod in the comment section. Use the contact form at disarmingleviathan.com.

Calling all Pastors! Join us for the J29 Coalition Cohort, starting August 2026. Learn more at J29Coalition.com.

We are in between seasons of the Disarming Leviathan podcast (mainly so I can finish my Doctoral project at Fuller Seminary), but I wanted to post this episode I did with the Surge Network. My friend Aaron Dailey and I talk about a variety of things, including how we have seen pastoral ministry change in Phoenix over the last two decades. I share some of the lessons I’ve learned, the growing anxiety about affiliation among clergy, and why the hardest part of this job is the ghosts.

You can also find the video here.

In this episode of Disarming Leviathan, Caleb sits down with Pastor David Ruybalid Ruybalid to examine the growing narrative that a “revival” is underway—especially among young men returning to church. While acknowledging real shifts in generational engagement, David offers a careful theological and pastoral critique of revival language that prioritizes numbers, emotion, or cultural momentum over repentance, humility, unity, and Spirit-formed fruit. Drawing on historical examples like the Moravian Revival, David argues that genuine revival cannot be manufactured or controlled—and must be evaluated by its fruit, not its hype.

The conversation also explores why increased male participation in church has coincided with many women disengaging, highlighting the impact of institutional betrayal, abuse, unaddressed power dynamics, and the weaponization of Scripture.

About DavidDavid Ruybalid is a pastor, writer, and trauma-informed practitioner who works at the intersection of church leadership, abuse response, and spiritual formation. He is the co-founder of the Religious Trauma Network and teaches on abuse response through a course developed with Danielle Strickland’s organization. Drawing on years of pastoral ministry, worship leadership, and advocacy for survivors, David equips churches to recognize institutional betrayal, respond faithfully to abuse, and cultivate leadership rooted in humility, repentance, and the character of Christ.

Learn more about Disarming Leviathan at DisarmingLeviathan.com

Many Christians struggle with the violence and conquest language of the Old Testament—especially texts like Joshua that seem at odds with the way of Jesus. In this episode, biblical scholar Helen Paynter helps us read these passages within the unfolding story of Scripture, showing how themes like warfare and power are transformed at the cross. Together, we explore why using these texts to justify modern political or military agendas is theologically thin, and how deeper biblical literacy helps Christians discern when Scripture is being misused.

About HelenHelen is a former nephrologist who followed a call into Baptist ministry, training at Bristol Baptist College and serving in associate and interim ministry roles in South Bristol before taking up her current full-time role at the college in 2020. She holds a PhD in Old Testament, along with master’s degrees in Biblical Studies and Missional Church Leadership, and her research focuses on narrative texts in the Hebrew Bible, particularly themes of violence, humor, and the misuse of Scripture. Helen is the founding director of the College’s Centre for the Study of Bible and Violence, which equips churches and scholars to engage biblical texts responsibly in a violent world. She is deeply committed to teaching and preaching, passionate about the Bible’s life-giving power through the Spirit, and attentive to the harm it can cause when misused. Her most recent book is Blessed are the Peacemakers: A Biblical Theology of Human Violence (Zondervan, 2023).

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In this episode of the Disarming Leviathan podcast, biblical scholar Dr. Dru Johnson pushes back against the misuse of Old Testament law by culture warriors and partisan tribalists who treat the Torah as a ready-made tool for coercive governance. Instead, he presents biblical law as a formational guide—not a rigid codebook—for shaping the moral and social imagination of God’s people. Johnson explains how casuistic law in the Bible functions through patterns and wisdom rather than universal enforcement. He contrasts this with modern Western legal assumptions shaped by Enlightenment thought, which often distort how Christians read and apply Scripture in public life. This conversation invites listeners to approach biblical law as a source of discernment, not domination.

About Dru

Dr. Dru Johnson is a biblical scholar and philosopher specializing in Old Testament law, ritual, and theological epistemology. He serves as Professor of Biblical and Theological Studies at Hope College and is the author of numerous books, including Human Rites, Biblical Philosophy, and Understanding Biblical Law (Zondervan Academic, 2024). Johnson is also a Senior Fellow at The King’s College and director of the Center for Hebraic Thought. His work bridges academic scholarship and public theology, helping Christians engage Scripture with intellectual integrity and cultural awareness. He also heads up the Center for Hebraic Thought and the Biblical Mind podcast.

In this episode, pastor and author Zach W. Lambert confronts the weaponization of Scripture in American public life and church culture. Drawing from his book Better Ways to Read the Bible, he outlines how harmful interpretive “lenses” have been used to justify everything from Christian nationalism to slavery to spiritual abuse. Rather than abandoning Scripture, Lambert calls Christians to reclaim a Jesus-centered, context-aware, fruit-bearing engagement with the Bible. He offers four healthy lenses—Jesus, context, flourishing, and fruitfulness—and explains how these can guide both personal discipleship and public theology in a way that heals rather than harms.

About Zach

Zach W. Lambert is the founding pastor of Restore Austin, a multiethnic, multigenerational church in Austin, Texas. He is the author of Better Ways to Read the Bible: Transforming a Weapon of Harm into a Tool of Healing, a book that helps Christians rethink how Scripture is interpreted and applied in both church and society. Zach is a frequent speaker and writer on topics related to justice, public theology, and deconstruction. His work appears on Substack under the title Public Theology, and he shares regular content on Instagram and X at @ZachWLambert.

In this episode, pastor and author Tara Beth Leach reflects on how the work of preaching and pastoring has changed in a time of political division, cultural anxiety, and social media outrage. She names the temptation pastors face to use the pulpit for venting or applause, and instead offers a vision of slow, intentional, Spirit-led formation shaped by liturgy, Scripture, and communal prayer. Drawing from her own journey, Tara Beth shares how she moved from reactive preaching to prophetic pastoring marked by maternal empathy, imagination, and subversive presence.

About Tara Beth

Tara Beth Leach is a pastor, writer, and speaker who serves as the Senior Pastor of Good Shepherd Church in Naperville, Illinois. She is the author of several books including Radiant Church and Emboldened: A Vision for Empowering Women in Ministry. A graduate of Northern Seminary, Tara Beth has pastored in diverse settings across the country and regularly writes and teaches on preaching, spiritual formation, and women in leadership. Her ministry centers on helping the church embody a radiant witness of the Kingdom of God in the midst of division, injustice, and fear. She writes regularly on Substack and speaks at conferences and churches across the U.S.

In this episode, writer and researcher Rachel Darnall shares her firsthand perspective on the rise of patriarchal theology in American Christianity and its connection to Christian nationalism. Drawing from her new video series It’s a Man’s World: The Genesis 3:16 Effect, Rachel explains how teachings rooted in control, male hierarchy, and politicized family roles have moved from the margins into mainstream evangelical spaces. She outlines how homeschooling, classical education, and economic structures are often used to reinforce authoritarian leadership, particularly in places like Moscow, Idaho. Rachel helps listeners see the human cost of these systems and offers practical insight into how churches and families can resist spiritual abuse while staying rooted in Scripture and community.

About Rachel

Rachel Darnall is a writer and researcher focused on gender, theological ethics, and religious authoritarianism. She is the creator of It’s a Man’s World: The Genesis 3:16 Effect, a video series produced with the Anastasis Center for Christian Education and Ministry that examines the rise and reach of Christian patriarchy in American religious life. Rachel holds an M.A. in Theological Studies from Westminster Theological Seminary (2024) and has been writing on gender, purity culture, and church power dynamics since 2017. Her work is shaped by a deep interest in women’s history and a commitment to biblical integrity.

In this episode, Dr. Vincent Bacote offers a thoughtful and theologically grounded vision for civic engagement shaped by the character of Christ. He challenges listeners to reject both Christian triumphalism and political withdrawal, advocating instead for a kingdom-oriented public witness that seeks the good of others. Drawing from his work in ethics, political theology, and his recent documentary Black + Evangelical, Bacote addresses power, integrity, institutional engagement, and the importance of discernment in advocacy. He invites Christians to see politics not as ultimate but as a space of provisional service, where we gesture toward the coming Kingdom through faithful, humble presence in public life.

About Vince

Dr. Vincent Bacote is Professor of Theology and the Director of the Center for Applied Christian Ethics at Wheaton College, where he has taught since 2000. He is the author of The Political Disciple: A Theology of Public Life and numerous articles on theology, culture, and public ethics. Dr. Bacote is also the narrator and co-creator of the documentary Black + Evangelical, which explores the lived experiences of Black Christians within evangelical institutions. A frequent conference speaker and commentator, he writes at vincentbacote.com and is known for equipping the church to engage faithfully in political and cultural life without falling into ideological captivity.

In this episode, Joash Thomas challenges Western Christians to recover a holistic vision of justice rooted in the way of Jesus. Drawing from his new book The Justice of Jesus, Joash contrasts retributive and restorative justice, highlights the global church’s theological depth, and critiques the “colonizer’s gospel” that prioritizes soul salvation over bodily and communal healing. He explores how colonization, individualism, and Christian nationalism have distorted the church’s witness, and offers a practical, hopeful path forward that centers marginalized neighbors, deepens civic discipleship, and calls the church to follow the Spirit’s lead toward holistic restoration.

About Joash

Joash Thomas is a Canadian-based speaker, advocate, and ordained minister focused on biblical justice, global theology, and civic discipleship. A former political consultant in Georgia, he now works at the intersection of faith and international human rights. Joash is the author of The Justice of Jesus: Liberating Our Broken Communities, Healing the Oppressed, and Redeeming Our Politics, and he leads weekly reflections through his Substack, Jesus, Justice, and Joash.