Over thirty years ago, Elaine Pagels’ young son and husband died within the same year. In this tender conversation, Kate and Elaine discuss surviving the aftermath of such devastation, the painful explanations religion often offers, and how we love and keep loving even after so much tragedy. 

Together, they discuss:

• The need for connection to others during grief
• Religion’s often painful and punitive explanations for suffering (and why they aren’t helpful or complete)
• Why parents often feel like they’ve “failed” when a child dies
• How suffering pulls us closer to mystery 

This episode is for someone who has ever had the thought “haven’t I suffered enough?” Elaine and Kate are trusted companions in a life that hasn’t turned out like we thought it should. 

CW: death of a child, death of a spouse

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A big thank you to Jed Meyers for contributing his beautiful poem to today's episode.

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