Drew's departure from the Fathoms podcast marks a significant transition for everyone involved, as they reflect on the challenges and growth that come with saying goodbye. Throughout the conversation, Drew shares his journey of reinventing himself after losing his job and the emotional complexities that accompany such a change. The team discusses the importance of acknowledging loss and the value of maintaining connections, even when circumstances evolve. They explore how transitions can lead to personal growth and a deeper understanding of one's identity beyond professional roles. As they reminisce about their shared experiences, the group emphasizes gratitude for the influence and camaraderie they’ve built over the years, affirming that while goodbyes can be painful, they also pave the way for new beginnings.

One of Drew's Favorite Episodes: Conversation | Grief, Hope, & Kindness with Leslie Hershberger

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Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast: Serious Work for Unserious Humans

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Help Fathoms, By Supporting Us Here: Fathoms Membership Community

Co-hosts: Seth Abram, Seth Creekmore, Lindsey Marks

Production/Editing: Liminal Podcasts

• Follow us on Instagram: @fathoms.enneagram
• Follow Abram: @integratedenneagram
• Follow Creek: @_creekmore
• Follow Lindsey: @lindseyfaithdm

This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:

Podcorn - https://podcorn.com/privacy

Leslie Flood Hershberger joins the Fathoms podcast to discuss the Enneagram and its profound implications on personal development, particularly in the context of navigating the second half of life. The conversation begins with Leslie reflecting on her own journey with the Enneagram, a tool she originally approached to better understand those around her—her family, students, and colleagues. As she delved deeper into the Enneagram, Leslie discovered that the true work lies not merely in categorizing personalities but in fostering a genuine presence and awareness of oneself. This shift from a superficial understanding of the Enneagram to a more intimate exploration of personal growth marks a significant evolution in her practice.

Throughout the episode, Leslie emphasizes the importance of acknowledging the complexities of life transitions, particularly as one ages. She discusses how the second half of life often invites individuals to confront their shadows—the parts of themselves they have repressed or neglected. This process is not just about facing discomfort but also about embracing regrets and recognizing their role as teachers. Leslie draws on her extensive experience, highlighting that the journey is unique for everyone; some may begin their second half of life work in their 30s, while others may not engage with it until much later. The deep emotional and spiritual insights shared by Leslie provide listeners with a framework for understanding their own experiences of growth, loss, and transformation.

The episode culminates in a rich discussion about the three centers of intelligence: the head, heart, and body. Leslie proposes a re-evaluation of how these centers are perceived in relation to the Enneagram, suggesting that the body center, often overlooked, is crucial for understanding our instinctual responses. She argues that true emotional connection can only occur when we ground ourselves in our physical sensations and feelings. This perspective not only deepens the understanding of the Enneagram but also serves as a call to action for listeners to integrate these centers into their personal development practices, highlighting the importance of somatic awareness as a gateway to authenticity and presence.

Takeaways:

• Leslie Flood Hershberger emphasizes that the Enneagram serves as a tool for self-discovery and personal growth throughout various life stages.
• The conversation highlights the importance of integrating emotional awareness into the practice of the Enneagram, especially as one ages.
• Understanding the distinction between emotional experiences and somatic feelings can enhance personal transformation work.
• In the second half of life, individuals are often asked to let go of attachments that no longer serve them, leading to deeper self-awareness.
• Leslie shares insights on how grief and loss profoundly shape one's journey into the second half of life.
• The podcast underscores that shadow work can be a powerful portal for personal growth and healing, revealing hidden aspects of ourselves.

Links referenced in this episode:

• lesliehershberger.com
• enneagramshop.com

Support our podcast:

• fathomspodcast.com/support

Follow us on Instagram:

@fathoms.enneagram

• Follow Abram: @integratedenneagram
• Follow Creek: @_creekmore
• Follow Lindsey: @lindseyfaithdm

This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:

Podcorn - https://podcorn.com/privacy

In this episode, we talk to Sandra C. Smith, an Enneagram teacher, about her new book, The Enneagram Map to Your Deeper Self: Living Beyond Your Type.

[2:44] Getting to know Sandra through summer-themed questions

[8:26] Sandra’s personal journey with the Enneagram

[12:19] Sandra’s teachers, their influences on her and how they show up in her book

[17:16] Defining type and why is understanding that you’re more than and not just your type is important for your growth

[25:37] How Sandra’s strengths show up as she wrote her book

[29:19] The dualities of the types

[41:39] This yearning to open ourselves to more of what we are

[47:21] Prompt for each type to help them reframe and move beyond their own limited perspective

[52:24] Why we should buy Sandra’s book and where they can buy it

Follow Sandra’s work: Alchemy Works // @sandrasmithalchemyworks // Heart of the Enneagram Podcast // “The Enneagram Map to Your Deeper Self: Living Beyond Your Type”

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Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast: “Serious Work for Unserious Humans.”

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Co-hosts: Seth Abram, Seth Creekmore, Lindsey Marks

Production/Editing: Seth Creekmore

• Support our podcast: https://fathomspodcast.com/support
• Follow us on Instagram: @fathoms.enneagram
• Follow Abram: @integratedenneagram
• Follow Creek: @_creekmore
• Follow Lindsey: @lindseyfaithdm

This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:

Podcorn - https://podcorn.com/privacy

Here’s Part 2 of our Season Finale: Revisiting Ego & Essence. To end our season, we have a deep and meaningful conversation with enneagram legends Russ Hudson and Mario Sikora on these often used, often misunderstood concepts. 

Lee Fields joins the Fathoms crew for this conversation, which always makes us better. 

[2:00] How can we move forward with these terms despite the issues? 

[13:05] Ego & Essence as bypassing

[19:05] It’s about the process, not a destination

[24:00] Individuality, Mutuality, & Unity in relation to ego and essence

[31:35] Russ’ and Mario’s closing remarks for people using the enneagram

[35:40] The Fathoms Cohosts provide their initial reactions to the conversation

[45:05] How we’ll use the terms “ego” & “essence” moving forward

[60:00] Abram shares a story

[1:01:00] Linz hands out podcast awards to the guys

[1:05:30] Why we do this podcast

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Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast: “Discovering our inner depths, one fathom at a time.”

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Co-hosts: Seth Abram, Seth Creekmore, Lindsey Marks, Drew Moser

Production/Editing: Seth Creekmore

• Follow us on Instagram: @fathoms.enneagram
• Follow Abram: @integratedenneagram
• Follow Creek: @_creekmore
• Follow Drew: @typetrailenneagram
• Follow Lindsey: @lindseyfaithdm

This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:

Podcorn - https://podcorn.com/privacy

It’s here! Part 1 of our season finale: Revisiting Ego & Essence. To end our season, we have a deep and meaningful conversation with enneagram legends Russ Hudson and Mario Sikora on these often used, often misunderstood concepts. 

Lee Fields joins the Fathoms crew for this conversation, which always makes us better. 

[1:00] A quick recap of this season

[5:30] We talk about (and cringe a bit) our Season 1 episode on Ego & Essence

[12:30] Lindsey’s thoughts about the first episode as a listener

[14:15] Our thoughts behind ending the season with the topic of Ego & Essence

[18:50] Some tips listening to this conversation with Russ & Mario

[23:00] Our conversation with Russ & Mario begins

[25:15] What’s the conversation we need to have today about ego & essence? 

[27:45] Having beginner’s mind with ego & essence?

[28:50] Russ & Mario’s first meeting…and first impressions!

[30:45] Their common fascination with zombies

[32:50] What Russ and Mario admire about each other’s enneagram work

[35:45] Russ and Mario’s definition of “ego” and “essence”

[45:00] Examples of how they’ve changed their minds on ego and essence

[55:30] How Mario interprets Russ’ view of ego and essence

[1:00:00] Russ on “essence”

[1:08:00] Mario’s problems with the term “essence”

[1:11:45] Why are still using these words in these ways?

[1:18:45] Lindsey pushes back a bit

Stay tuned for Part 2 of our conversation with Russ & Mario next week! 

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Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast: “Discovering our inner depths, one fathom at a time.”

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Co-hosts: Seth Abram, Seth Creekmore, Lindsey Marks, Drew Moser

Production/Editing: Seth Creekmore

• Follow us on Instagram: @fathoms.enneagram
• Follow Abram: @integratedenneagram
• Follow Creek: @_creekmore
• Follow Drew: @typetrailenneagram
• Follow Lindsey: @lindseyfaithdm

This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:

Podcorn - https://podcorn.com/privacy

Today we debrief our three-episode series on trauma. If you haven’t listened to those interviews with Sharon K. Ball, Dr. B, and Miles Adcox, be sure to check them out! We also talk about our next episode, where we revisit the concepts of ego and essence. In that episode we’re joined by enneagram legends Mario Sikora and Russ Hudson! 

[2:00] Reflecting on our conversation with Sharon K. Ball, including her 3 m’s: movement, meaningful connections, mindfulness

[5:20] Reflecting on our conversation with Dr. B, including “resilience is not random.”

[14:00] Reflecting on our conversation with Miles Adcox, including his thoughts on projection between therapist and client

[19:40] Setting up our next episode, revisiting Ego and Essence. What we still think, how we’ve changed our views, etc. 

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Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast: “Discovering our inner depths, one fathom at a time.”

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Co-hosts: Seth Abram, Seth Creekmore, Lindsey Marks, Drew Moser

Production/Editing: Seth Creekmore

• Follow us on Instagram: @fathoms.enneagram
• Follow Abram: @integratedenneagram
• Follow Creek: @_creekmore
• Follow Drew: @typetrailenneagram
• Follow Lindsey: @lindseyfaithdm

This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:

Podcorn - https://podcorn.com/privacy

Today we finish our series of conversations on trauma and personhood with Miles Adcox. He is the Chairman and Owner of Onsite, an internationally-known emotional wellness lifestyle brand that delivers life-changing personal growth workshops, digital mental health master classes, emotionally smart leadership retreats, and residential emotional wellness and trauma treatment. Miles’ work at Onsite has been featured on 20/20, Good Morning America, New York Times, Wall Street Journal, Dr. Phil Show, The Doctors, People, Billboard, Marie Claire, and NOW FATHOMS | AN ENNEAGRAM PODCAST! 

[1:45] Lightning round questions to get to know Miles

[7:50] What is mental health and emotional wellness?

[10:00] How does Miles approach his work amid the rise of pop psychology?

[17:00] Miles’ cautions regarding the pitfalls of self-help/personal development

[21:00] On “crescendo culture” and the success of Onsite

[27:15] Miles’ talks about Internal Family Systems theory

[30:05] Some practical advice: The 20/10/5 list

[33:30] On clean and dirty pain

[42:10] What should be in our “trauma kit”? 

[48:30] Miles’ own experience as a father

[56:15] A current challenge Miles is facing

[58:30] What Miles has to say to mental health professionals and other helpers

Follow Miles at www.milesadcox.com // www.experienceonsite.com  

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Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast: “Discovering our inner depths, one fathom at a time.”

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Co-hosts: Seth Abram, Seth Creekmore, Lindsey Marks, Drew Moser

Production/Editing: Seth Creekmore

• Follow us on Instagram: @fathoms.enneagram
• Follow Abram: @integratedenneagram
• Follow Creek: @_creekmore
• Follow Drew: @typetrailenneagram
• Follow Lindsey: @lindseyfaithdm

This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:

Podcorn - https://podcorn.com/privacy

We continue our series on trauma and personhood with another conversation with Dr. Kristin Beasley. Dr. B is a clinical psychologist who specializes in trauma and early childhood development. Dr. B helps us clarify terms such as “victim” and “victimhood.” She provides practical insight on how to more compassionately work with those who have experienced trauma and is a wealth of wisdom on cultivating resilience. 

[1:00] What is victimhood? 

[3:40] The difference between states and. traits

[9:20] Resilience is not random

[10:00] A more compassionate response

[14:50] On true Victim/victimhood and the limits of the terms

[23:40] For those who struggle to acknowledge their victimhood

[33:00] Dr. B’s problem with the “hood” in “victimhood”

[37:30] Resilience starts in the front end of life

[38:30] If Dr. B were president…

[42:15] Developing resilience and respecting those who struggle

[55:45] What we can do to cultivate resilience (in ourselves and in those we help)

Follow Dr B’s work: https://www.drbconnections.com/ [trauma-informed care and resilience training!]

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Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast: “Discovering our inner depths, one fathom at a time.”

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Co-hosts: Seth Abram, Seth Creekmore, Lindsey Marks, Drew Moser

Production/Editing: Seth Creekmore

• Follow us on Instagram: @fathoms.enneagram
• Follow Abram: @integratedenneagram
• Follow Creek: @_creekmore
• Follow Drew: @typetrailenneagram
• Follow Lindsey: @lindseyfaithdm

This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:

Podcorn - https://podcorn.com/privacy

In this first episode on trauma, we interview Sharon K. Ball. Licensed therapist and enneagram professional who specializes in trauma and the enneagram. Sharon is the author of Reclaiming You: Using the Enneagram to Move from Trauma to Resilience. 

[1:10] Abram asks Sharon for her “top strength in her Myers-briggs finder” (?)

[2:00] Clarifying some terms: trauma and resilience

[4:15] The 4 Types of Trauma: Chronic, Insidious, Acute, & Complex

[9:30] Big T vs. little t trauma

[12:00] How important is it to label one’s type of trauma?

[16:10] The difference between a stressful experience and a traumatic one

[22:30] On being trauma informed…and not reducing people to a type

[27:40] Finding specific practices for our type

[29:45] The triad of resilience/trauma resolution

[33:00] The difference between an enneagram type as a coping strategy vs. a trauma response. 

[36:20] How knowing your type can engage your trauma work

[39:05] How can we honor each other and arrive at a greater sense of unity? 

Follow Sharon’s work: @sharonkball // www.ninepaths.com

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Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast: “Discovering our inner depths, one fathom at a time.”

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Co-hosts: Seth Abram, Seth Creekmore, Lindsey Marks, Drew Moser

Production/Editing: Seth Creekmore

• Follow us on Instagram: @fathoms.enneagram
• Follow Abram: @integratedenneagram
• Follow Creek: @_creekmore
• Follow Drew: @typetrailenneagram
• Follow Lindsey: @lindseyfaithdm

This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:

Podcorn - https://podcorn.com/privacy

In this episode, we reflect upon our recent conversation with singer/songwriter Andy Squyres. If you haven't listened to that episode, go check it out and then come back and reflect with us. We look forward to our next topic, trauma and personhood.

Andy’s Instagram post that inspired our conversation: https://www.instagram.com/p/CgUkgrYOn6M/ 

Follow Andy’s work at https://andysquyres.com/ and listen to his music! 

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Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast: “Discovering our inner depths, one fathom at a time.”

—

Co-hosts: Seth Abram, Seth Creekmore, Lindsey Marks, Drew Moser

Production/Editing: Seth Creekmore

• Follow us on Instagram: @fathoms.enneagram
• Follow Abram: @integratedenneagram
• Follow Creek: @_creekmore
• Follow Drew: @typetrailenneagram
• Follow Lindsey: @lindseyfaithdm

This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:

Podcorn - https://podcorn.com/privacy