Description:

In the span of a single year, Abby Wambach lost her beloved brother, her wife Glennon Doyle  was diagnosed with anorexia, and her sister-in-law Amanda Doyle was diagnosed with breast cancer. For the first time, the trio who host the wildly popular We Can Do Hard Things podcast, all found themselves simultaneously lost, looking for answers. So they turned toward the only thing that’s ever helped them find their way: deep, honest conversations with other brave, kind, wise people. What resulted from those conversations was a myriad of guideposts, words of wisdom from some of the most brilliant wayfinders in the zeitgeist today.

In this episode, Jen and Amy talk with Abby and Amanda about some of the most meaningful bits of guidance that they have received from inspirational voices like Elizabeth Gilbert, Jane Fonda, Michelle Obama, Ocean Vuong, Esther Perel,  Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson, and others that they have gathered into a new book called, We Can Do Hard Things: Answers to Life's 20 Questions.

Some of the conversations they delve into include:

Why are we like this?

How do we figure out what we really want?

How do we let go, or forgive, or get unstuck?

Why do we wake up every day having forgotten everything we know?

Why self-loyalty is so damn hard for women?

Thought-provoking Quotes:

“I'm just trying to remain a human in this political environment, in this place of deep fear where so much is at risk. And I think the way we do that is continuing to see each other as human and continuing to let our hearts break over what should break our hearts.” – Amanda Doyle

“Having played on many different teams, I'm well suited to work well with others. I just have to be here and be myself. That is the way that I add value. I am not gonna add value in the way that Glennon and Amanda do. I know that. But that doesn't give me any lack of confidence because I know I bring something to the team.” – Abby Wambach

“After 400 or so conversations, it was so wild that, whether we were talking to a person who's been a therapist for 40 years, or a person who's a poet, or a person who's an activist, there were just a handful of questions that all of these people are struggling with. The smartest people in the world are trying to figure out the same things that we are.” – Amanda Doyle

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Forward: A Memoir by Abby Wambach - https://amzn.to/4ckZOFi

WOLFPACK: How to Come Together, Unleash Our Power, and Change the Game by Abby Wambach - https://amzn.to/4cpazqg

We Can Do Hard Things: Answers to Life's 20 Questions by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Amanda Doyle - https://amzn.to/3EfeZ6r

Glennon Doyle - https://momastery.com/

Amanda Doyle Stops Keeping Score And Stays In The Moment - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-60/amanda-doyle-stops-keeping-score-and-stays-in-the-moment/

Brené Brown - https://brenebrown.com/

Kate Bowler - https://katebowler.com/about/

Suzanne Stabile - https://suzannestabile.com/

Guest’s Links:

Website - https://abbywambach.com/

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/abbywambach/

Twitter - https://x.com/abbywambach

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/abbywambach/

Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCej3anJvC-rSMd63asN8cXg

Podcast - https://wecandohardthingspodcast.com/

Guest’s Links:

Twitter - https://x.com/amandafdoyle

Podcast - https://wecandohardthingspodcast.com/

Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker

The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:

The April 2025 JHBC selection, The Light Pirate, is a haunting, lyrical, and original story that takes place in the near future, set against the backdrop of climate-ravaged Florida, with parts of the state going underwater and being abandoned by those who used to call it home. The story follows Wanda—a luminous child born out of a devastating hurricane—as she navigates a rapidly changing world. With elements of literary fiction, speculative realism, and subtle magical undertones, The Light Pirate is a meditation on grief, transformation, resilience, and the relationship between humanity and the natural world. It’s both a warning and a whisper of hope—a reminder that even in the face of collapse, there is still beauty, connection, and light.

In this discussion with The Light Pirate author, Lily Brooks-Dalton, she and Jen discuss:

How the simple practice of journaling helped Lily evolve her craft and find her own unique voice as a writer

The ways in which Lily weaves unexpected, real-life texture into her work by marrying her passions in other hobbies and subjects

The evolving demands on a modern author

And Lily talks about her next book project titled 'Ruins' that explores the fascinating field of archaeology

Thought-provoking Quotes:

“I always wanted to be a writer. And it was just a matter of figuring out that that was a goal worth working toward.” – Lily Brooks-Dalton

“I always had a journal. I was so much better at figuring out what I felt through writing it down, as opposed to even thinking or talking out loud. It was just like my medium.” – Lily Brooks-Dalton

“That moment of preparation really stuck with me for a long time. And I couldn't get it out of my head. I was just thinking about all the different ways that a human being could react to that kind of energy, that kind of dread and fear and excitement.” – Lily Brooks-Dalton

“This is the conundrum of living in places that aren’t for us, places  that aren't accommodating to us anymore in the way that maybe they used to be. It's so easy to be tucked into your safe home and be like, just move, just go somewhere else. But, I think you are able to put yourself in those shoes and realize these are people's homes. They invest their whole lives in these spaces. And it's no small thing to just move somewhere a little easier.” – Lily Brooks-Dalton

“I didn’t become a writer to be seen. It's not my comfort zone, so it's been a little bit scary at times and also really exciting.” – Lily Brooks-Dalton

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

The Light Pirate: A Novel by Lily Brooks-Dalton - https://amzn.to/42dGxCn

Motorcycles I've Loved: A Memoir by Lily Brooks-Dalton - https://amzn.to/4cEEavY

Good Morning, Midnight: A Novel by Lily Brooks-Dalton - https://amzn.to/4jy3S7v

The Midnight Sky on Netflix - https://www.netflix.com/title/80244645

Piranesi by Susanna Clarke - https://amzn.to/4jzVvZ6

Audition: A Novel by Katie Kitamura - https://amzn.to/42koxXa

Guest’s Links:

Website - https://www.lilybrooksdalton.com/

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/lilybrooksdalton

Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker

The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:

She’s become a leading voice in the culinary world and today stars as the lead host of the same cooking competition show that launched her career. Kristen Kish was eliminated from Bravo’s season 10 of Top Chef, only to make a triumphant return through a Last Chance Kitchen opportunity that cleared the way for her to beat out the remaining competition and win the season. 

Since that 2013 victory, Kristen has been everywhere – launching a new restaurant, Arlo Grey, in Jen’s hometown of Austin (and another restaurant opening soon in New York), hosting some of our favorite food shows including Kitchens at the End of the World, Iron Chef, and now Top Chef (the student has become the teacher). She’s also flexing a new muscle as an author. In her new book, Accidentally on Purpose, Kristen shares her story of being born in South Korea and adopted into a loving white, midwestern American family and what it was like for her to navigate her identity in all of its racial, sexual and professional contexts. Ultimately, what defines Kristen’s story is how she learned to find her voice and use it and, while accidents may be unexpected, they don’t have to be at odds with our purpose. 

Our conversation today covers: 

Thought-provoking Quotes:

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Guest’s Links:

Website - https://www.thelinehotel.com/magazine/meet-atx-family-kristen-kish/

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/kristenlkish/

Twitter - https://x.com/kristenlkish?lang=en

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/KristenLKish/

TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@kristenlkish

Connect with Jen!

Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker

The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. 

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:

Today, Jen and Amy sit down with a treasured friend of the show, Franciscan priest and truth-teller, Father Richard Rohr. Father Rohr has been a genuine hero of the faith who has guided us through much uncertainty over the years. Sometimes, we turn to him for mystic insights into lighter things like our Enneagram types and relationships. But today, we turned to him for help processing the anger, grief, and dismay we feel living in America right now. And he met the moment, as he always does.

With gentle grace, Father Rohr guides us through our toughest questions, like:

Thought-provoking Quotes:

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Guest’s Links:

Website - https://cac.org/

Twitter - https://x.com/RichardRohrOFM

Connect with Jen!

Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker

The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:

Jeff Chu, an award-winning journalist, author, and "sort-of-kind-of farmer," joins Jen on the For the Love podcast to discuss his book, Good Soil: The Education of an Accidental Farmhand. In the book, Jeff shares stories from his time at “The Farminary”, a twenty-one-acre working farm at Princeton’s Theological Seminary, where students explore life's biggest questions while cultivating the earth. 

Jeff reflects on his own struggles with faith, identity, and the expectations placed upon him as a gay man raised in a conservative Christian environment. His journey reveals the challenges of cultivating, not just plants, but also a spiritual life that is authentic, evolving, and inclusive​. 

In this conversation, Jeff, Jen and Amy discuss: 

Thought-provoking Quotes:

#JeffChu #GoodSoil #ForTheLovePodcast #SpiritualJourney

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Guest’s Links:

Website - https://byjeffchu.com/

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/byjeffchu

Twitter - https://x.com/jeffchu

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/byjeffchu

Substack - https://byjeffchu.com/contact#substack

Connect with Jen!

Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker

The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:

If we’re lucky, most of us will live an abundant life that’s filled with a number of significant transitions. How we embrace those inevitable life changes and honor that growth can make a big difference in how we are prepared to meet future challenges.

Today, Jen and Amy have the pleasure of sitting down with Melinda French Gates to discuss how, at 60, she is stepping into this next beautiful season of life. By giving a rare glimpse into her interior life, and sharing previously untold stories included in her new memoir, The Next Day: Transitions, Change and Moving Forward, Melinda shares the heart-connecting lessons that we all can apply to the universal moments in our lives – including becoming a parent, the loss of a close friend, the loss of a marriage, knowing the right time to make a career move.

In this episode, we discuss:

Thought-provoking Quotes:

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Guest’s Links:

Website - https://www.pivotalventures.org/

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/melindafrenchgates

Twitter - https://x.com/melindagates

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/melindagates

Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/c/melindagates

TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@melindafrenchgates

Connect with Jen!

Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker

The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:

In the summer of 2020, as Jen was beginning to process the loss of her 26-year marriage, there was one person walking her own similar but different journey, and understood many of the feelings of anger, grief, shame, and loss that Jen was just beginning to feel. Someone who knew how that disappointment felt.

Jessica N. Tuner, founder of the popular lifestyle blog The Mom Creative, was a few months ahead of Jen in processing the loss of her 16-year marriage to her husband and father of her three children. Today, Jessica shared with Jen and Amy what the road to recovery has looked like for her, including grieving the end of the life she thought she would have forever, the change of her identity, navigating  the messy false-starts, and clawing her way back from what felt like “the floor of hell”. Jessica compiled those hard-fought lessons into a book she’s hoping will be a manifesto of hope to others, called I Thought It Would Be Better Than This: Rise From Disappointment, Regain Control, and Rebuild a Life You Love.

***

Thought-provoking Quotes:

Nothing about what I thought my life was going to be, is my life now. Now I feel like I walk around in the world and I feel grief and loss and disappointment and dismay from everybody. It’s amazing how my eyes have opened. It was a big awakening to the loss people are living with everyday.–Jessica N. Turner

When we made the decision to divorce, I felt like I was sitting on the floor of hell, everything was dust, everything was different.–Jessica N. Turner

No matter how devastating the loss, the life you can still rebuild is astonishing. – Jen Hatmaker

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Say Anything film (1989) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0098258/

Sixteen Candles film (1984) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088128/

Cameron Crowe - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001081/

John Hughes - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000455/

James Spader - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000652/

Some Kind of Wonderful film (1987) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094006/

I Go Crazy by Flesh for Lulu - https://open.spotify.com/track/2o1AevEuv39qZAVy6k2pmn

The Breakfast Club film (1985) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088847/

Weird Science film (1985) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0090305

Ferris Bueller’s Day Off film (1986) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091042/

Planes, Trains and Automobiles film (1987) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093748/

Uncle Buck film (1989) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0098554

Pretty in Pink film (1986) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091790

Beethoven film (1992) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0103786

I Thought It Would Be Better Than This: Rise From Disappointment, Regain Control, and Rebuild a Life You Love by Jessica Turner - https://amzn.to/40yC1fF

Outlander - https://www.starz.com/us/en/series/outlander/21796

Onsite - https://experienceonsite.com/

ONSITE COURSE [BOOK ORDER BONUS]: What now? Practical steps to navigate disappointment and learn to dream again - https://bit.ly/3DTV4d4

Jen’s Maine MeCamp Bar Harbor Travel Guide - https://jenhatmaker.com/bar-harbor/

Going - https://www.going.com/

Guest’s Links:

Jessica’s website - https://jessicanturner.com/

Jessica’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jessicanturner/

Jessica’s Twitter - https://x.com/jessicanturner

Jessica’s TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@jessicanturner

Jessica’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/TheMomCreative/

Jessica’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/TheMomCreative

Jessica’s Pinterest - https://www.pinterest.com/JessicaNTurner/

Connect with Jen!

Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker

The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:

Maddie Corman is a seasoned American actress and playwright that you’ve seen in classic films including Some Kind of Wonderful, Maid in Manhattan, A Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood, and our favorite television shows like Law and Order, Curb Your Enthusiasm, and The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel.

Most recently, she has put her creative hand to writing and performing in a very raw and vulnerable autobiographical one-woman play called Accidentally Brave, that delves into Maddie's personal journey following the arrest of her husband on child pornography charges in 2015. Today, Maddie shares her story of navigating the aftermath, focusing on themes of resilience, healing, and redefining normalcy when life takes an unforeseen turn.

In this tender and transparent conversation, we discuss:

Thought-provoking Quotes:

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Guest’s Links:

Website - https://www.maddiecorman.com/

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/msmaddiecorman/

Twitter - https://x.com/maddiecorman

Connect with Jen!

Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker

The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. 

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:

This month’s JHBC selection, The Berry Pickers, by Nova Scotian author Amanda Peters has found a particularly receptive audience within book club communities, including the Jen Hatmaker Book Club, for exploring universal human emotions and experiences, and for  examining unique cultural perspectives.  By masterfully blending her father's compelling stories as a Maine berry picker with her own extensive career in Indigenous governance, The Berry Pickers delves into a unique and original plot surrounding a Mi’kmaw family that grapples with the corrosive effects of guilt and shame, and the possibility of redemption. Peters reveals how the debut novel initially took shape as a short story, but as the beautifully-flawed characters and tendrilled themes began to unfold, the narrative organically expanded into the full-fledged novel that it is now, which has been translated into an impressive 22 languages and has been awarded the Andrew Carnegie Medal for Excellence in Fiction. 

Thought-provoking Quotes:

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Guest’s Links:

Website - https://amandapetersauthor.com/

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/amandapetersauthor/

Twitter - https://x.com/amandapetersaut?lang=en

Connect with Jen!

Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker

The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:

Today’s guest, Shannon Watts, has come to be known as a formidable force in the world. As the founder of Moms Demand Action, the largest grassroots movement against gun violence formed after the Sandy Hook school shooting tragedy in 2012, her activism has mobilized millions of moms to successfully pass  over 500 gun safety laws. As Amy poignantly stated, Shannon’s work “has legitimately made a tangible impact on the safety of my kids in their classrooms”, demonstrating the profound significance of Shannon’s contributions.

Watts has since shifted her time and attention to empowering women, whom she credits as the real changemakers in any movement. She has founded the Firestarter School, a platform designed to help women reclaim their power and has a forthcoming book,  Fired Up: How to Turn Your Spark into a Flame and Come Alive at Any Age, releasing in the summer of 2025, which explores the necessary elements needed to ignite a fire in your life and pursue your passion and purpose.

Thought-provoking Quotes:

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Guest’s Links:

Website - https://momsdemandaction.org/shannon-watts/

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/shannonrwatts/

Twitter - https://x.com/shannonrwatts

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/fightlikeamother.org

Substack - https://shannonwatts.substack.com/

Moms Demand Action website - https://momsdemandaction.org/

Moms Demand Action Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/momsdemand

Moms Demand Action Twitter - https://x.com/momsdemand

Moms Demand Action Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/MomsDemandAction

Moms Demand Action YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/MomsDemandAction

Connect with Jen!

Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker

The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. 

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices