Some people are the LEAN IN sort. They lean into your unsolvable problems, show up on your impossible days, and walk with you all the way to the end. How do we become them? How do we create belonging when the people we love experience such uncertainty? Practical theologian and mental health nurse John Swinton knows a thing or two about this kind of love.  

In this conversation, Kate and John discuss: 

• The importance of learning to be present for people with intellectual disabilities, dementia, or in mental health crises 
• How two places that should be known as places of belonging—the church and the hospital—have become difficult for fragile people… and how we might begin to make these institutions better
• A theology of hope we might all be able to sign up for (Spoiler: Hope is a long story.) 
• How love moves at a certain speed, so we all might need to slow down a bit

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THE LIVES WE ACTUALLY HAVE: 100 Blessings for Imperfect Days is out now. Learn more, here.

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