Why do so many kids seem unmotivated at school, and what can we do about it? In this episode of Psychologists Off the Clock, we’re taking a look at what’s really going on with student engagement, especially during those tricky adolescent years. 

Our guests, Rebecca Winthrop and Jenny Anderson, co-authors of The Disengaged Teen, join Emily to break it all down. From the four types of learners—the Passenger, Achiever, Resistor, and Explorer—to how we can help kids tap into curiosity and motivation, this conversation is full of eye-opening insights for both parents and educators. 

They also unpack the pressures of today’s achievement culture, the influence of tech and AI, and most importantly, how parents and teachers can support teens in becoming more confident, engaged learners.

Listen and Learn: 

• Why Rebecca Winthrop and Jenny Anderson wrote a game-changing book to fix the student disengagement crisis
• Why only 4% of teens feel truly engaged in school, and what you can do to change that
• What true engagement looks like in your teen 
• How boosting your child’s engagement in learning can improve grades, motivation, and mental health
• Why the “age of achievement” hoop-jumping is harming your child and how to shift toward true agency
• How your child can shift between four learning modes and how you can help them thrive
• Spotting if your child’s stuck in “passenger mode” and igniting their true learning spark
• How your neurodivergent or struggling child can unlock support and build resilience
• How your well-meaning expectations might be fueling your child’s harmful perfectionism
• Turning your child’s “resistor mode” into growth by truly understanding and supporting them
• Why your child’s curiosity and choices spark real learning skills that grades and rules can’t teach
• How your curiosity and relationship with your child can transform their learning mindset

Resources: 

• The Disengaged Teen: Helping Kids Learn Better, Feel Better, and Live Better:
• https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9780593727072
• Jenny’s website: https://www.jennywestanderson.org/ 
• Rebecca’s website: https://www.rebeccawinthrop.com/
• Connect with Rebecca on social media: 

https://www.instagram.com/drrebeccawinthrop/?hl=en

https://x.com/rebeccawinthrop?lang=en

https://www.linkedin.com/in/rebecca-winthrop-b36b0617

• Connect with Jenny on social media: 

https://uk.linkedin.com/in/jennyandersonnyt

https://x.com/jwestanderson?lang=en

https://www.instagram.com/jennyandersonwrites/?hl=en 

About Rebecca Winthrop and Jenny Anderson

Rebecca Winthrop is a leading global authority on education, the director of the Center for Universal Education at Brookings and an adjunct professor at Georgetown University. She is dedicated to ensuring that every child has the opportunity to thrive in life, work, and as an engaged citizen. She leads cutting-edge research and initiatives aimed at transforming education systems around the world to better support children's learning and development. 

Rebecca is a trusted advisor to both school communities and national and international organizations. Her expertise is sought by many including parent networks, schools, district education leaders, the White House, the United Nations, and Fortune 500 companies. Rebecca's work is centered on developing and advocating for evidence-based strategies that bring people together—families, educators, policymakers, and companies—to help children maximize their potential. 

She holds a PhD from Columbia University’s Teachers College, an MA from its School of International and Public Affairs, and a BA from Swarthmore College.

Jenny Anderson is an award-winning journalist, author, and speaker with more than 25 years of experience. Her work has appeared in some of the world’s leading publications, including The New York Times, where she was on staff for 10 years, TIME, The Atlantic, the Wall Street Journal and Quartz.

Related Episodes:

• 369. Good News About Adolescence with Ellen Galinsky
• 344. Differently Wired Kids with Deborah Reber
• 332. Middle School Superpowers with Phyllis Fagell
• 324. Toxic Achievement Culture with Jennifer Wallace
• 319. Autonomy-Supportive Parenting with Emily Edlynn
• 272. Middle School Matters with Phyllis Fagell

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

What’s a skill that can instantly improve your relationships, communication, and even your influence? In this episode, Yael talks with Caroline Fleck, a licensed psychologist and author of Validation, to unpack exactly that.

Caroline explains what validation really is, how it’s different from empathy or sympathy, and why it can be so powerful in both personal and professional relationships. 

They walk you through how validation first gained traction in therapy, especially in dialectical behavior therapy, and Caroline shares simple techniques like attending, copying, and proposing that anyone can use.

You’ll get Caroline’s take on the challenge of validating someone when you strongly disagree, the role of self-disclosure in connection, and how our understanding of emotions has shifted from classic microexpressions to a more nuanced view of emotional experience.

If you’re looking for practical ways to build better relationships and truly connect, this episode is full of insight.

Listen and Learn: 

Resources: 

https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9780593541210

https://www.linkedin.com/in/carolinefleck/

https://www.instagram.com/carolinefleckphd/

https://www.youtube.com/@Dr.CarolineFleck

https://www.tiktok.com/@drcarolinefleck 

About Caroline Fleck: 

Dr. Caroline Fleck is a licensed psychologist, writer, and corporate consultant who has served as a supervisor and consultant for some of the most rigorous training programs in the country, including Dr. Marsha Linehan’s program at the University of Washington, the Department of Psychiatry at Stanford Medical Center, and the VA Palo Alto.

She is a respected voice in psychology and has been featured in national media outlets, including The New York Times, Good Morning America, and The Huffington Post. Her new book, which we’re here to discuss, is the first of its kind to make the specialized validation skills therapists master to get through to anyone available to everyone.

Related Episodes:

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

In a world constantly demanding our attention and energy, have you ever felt trapped between the crucial need to care for yourself and the undeniable urge to care for those around you? 

Well, for this conversation, Debbie gets into that very dilemma with Dr. Jordan Quaglia, as he challenges us to move beyond the 'either/or' of self-care and explore his revolutionary 'We Care' approach. 

Jordan, who is the author of Self-Care to We Care: The New Science of Mindful Boundaries and Caring From an Undivided Heart, gives his take on the research on balancing self-care with caring for others and emphasizes the importance of holding both self-care and compassion for others simultaneously and offers practical strategies for setting healthy boundaries and integrating self-care into daily life. Come join Debbie and Jordan to redefine what it means to care!

Listen and Learn: 

Resources: 

About Jordan Quaglia

Jordan Quaglia, PhD, has spent over a decade researching and teaching on topics such as mindfulness, compassion, and boundaries. He is an associate professor of psychology at Naropa University, where he directs the Cognitive and Affective Science Laboratory and is research director for its Center for the Advancement of Contemplative Education. A recognized expert in the science of compassion, he has been designated as a research fellow by the Mind & Life Institute, a Contemplative Social Justice Scholar for Contemplative Mind in Society, and a panelist for multiple United Nations Day of Vesak conferences. In addition to his research, Jordan co-developed and regularly teaches an eight-week compassion training curriculum for hundreds of individuals. He lives with his wife in Boulder, Colorado.

Book: From Self-Care to We-Care: The New Science of Mindful Boundaries and Caring from an Undivided Heart

Related episodes: 

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

True strength and success lie in how well we can come together and support one another and how well we can stand side by side to move forward as a collective. 

That powerful message comes straight from our guest, Dr. Lakeysha Hallmon, who is the author of No One Is Self-Made: Build Your Village to Flourish in Business and Life, and it perfectly sets the tone for this deeply honest and inspiring conversation with Jill.

They talk about why we’re not meant to do life or business solo, the power of building your “village,” and how real success comes from community, not isolation.

If you’ve ever wondered who you need in your corner, how to find your purpose, or how to stop carrying the weight alone, this one’s for you. Hit play on this conversation to find out what being “village made” really means and why it just might change the way you show up in the world.

Listen and Learn: 

Why the "self-made" myth is harmful and how being "village-made" redefines success

How neuroscience proves we're wired for community and why it's vital for well-being

Why being communal is especially critical for marginalized communities to overcome systemic barriers

Are purpose and alignment the driving forces behind building a thriving community?

"Life assignments" you can put into practice reveal your true purpose

The six essential roles needed to build your "village" and how they contribute to collective success

How to attract your "village" by showing up authentically and setting intentions in new spaces

The crucial difference between individual and "village-made" values, and how they shape community

Key "village-made" values like sharing space with those who shine and radical inclusivity

When to keep grinding and when surrendering opens doors you never expected

Channelling your anger into action and the "village verbs" that empower community building

Resources: 

Find Lakeysha and buy her book, No One is Self-Made, at https://drkeyhallmon.com/noism/ or get it at our POTC bookshop: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9780063315891 

Connect with Lakeysha on social media: http://www.linkedin.com/in/lakeysha-hallmon-ed-d-52680215a

https://www.instagram.com/drkeyhallmon  

Debbie’s article on asking for help: https://psyche.co/guides/how-to-ask-for-help-without-discomfort-or-apology

About Lakeysha Hallmon

Dr. Lakeysha Hallmon has transformed the lives of thousands of Black entrepreneurs across the world through her flagship brand The Village Market, and sister organizations The Village Retail, a storefront featuring premier Black-owned brands and nonprofit Our Village United, which revitalizes small businesses by providing funding and technical services. Her love of community, paired with her mantra, Support Is a Verb, inspires Black entrepreneurs everywhere and the communities who support them with intention. As an award-winning expert in education and business development, Hallmon’s innovative village model has become highly sought-after and has facilitated 8.3 million dollars in sales to Black businesses.

Related Episodes

116. Building a Meaningful, Values-based Life with Jenna LeJeune

138. Exploring Existence and Purpose: Existentialism with Robyn Walser

234. The Power of Us with Dominic Packer

273. A More Just Future with Dolly Chugh

285. What Do You Want Out of Life? Values Fulfillment Theory with Valerie Tiberius

329. The Power of Curiosity with Scott Shigeoka

370. Freedom, Energy, and Power with Emma Seppälä

371. Uniting Toward a Better Future with Diana McLain Smith

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

It’s easy to forget how much doing something creative can lift your mood. Whether you're painting, building something, or just doodling for fun, creating is good for your brain and your mental health! 

In this conversation, Debbie interviews bestselling author Kelly Corrigan, along with her daughter and coauthor, Claire Corrigan Lichty. They talk about their new children’s book, Marianne the Maker, which highlights how creativity and hands-on making can support well-being for kids and adults alike.

Listen in to hear about Kelly and Claire's experience working together as a mother-and-daughter duo, and learn how to incorporate everyday creativity to lift spirits, spark connection, and bond families!

Listen and Learn:

Resources:

Social Media: 

Kelly’s New York Times Op Eds: 

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Raising grounded, thoughtful kids in today’s chaotic world is no small task.

In this episode, Emily talks with award-winning journalist and author Melinda Wenner Moyer about her new book, Hello, Cruel World: Science-Based Strategies for Raising Terrific Kids in Terrifying Times.

Melinda shares practical, research-based tools to help parents guide their children through media influence, bias, and the challenges of social media and technology.

It’s a powerful conversation filled with real-world strategies for raising compassionate, critical-thinking kids who can thrive, even when the world feels upside down.

Listen and Learn:

Resources:

About Melinda Wenner Moyer

Melinda Wenner Moyer is an award-winning journalist whose work explores the intersection of science and everyday life. She’s known for her deep dives into subjects that have both scientific and societal implications, addressing issues that are relevant to parents, families, and the general public. Melinda is a contributing editor at Scientific American magazine and a regular contributor and former columnist at The New York Times. Her first book, How To Raise Kids Who Aren’t Assholes, was published in July 2021 and won a gold medal in the 2022 Living Now Book Awards. Her second book, Hello Cruel World!: Science-Based Strategies for Raising Terrific Kids in Terrifying Times, will be published on May 27, 2025. She lives in New York's Hudson Valley. 

390. Raising Empowered Girls in a Sexist World with Jo-Ann Finkelstein

381. Reimagining Boyhood with Ruth Whippman

382. The Anxious Generation? The Conversation We Should Be Having About Kids, Technology, and Mental Health

377. How to Raise a Citizen with Lindsey Cormack

317. Growing Up in Public with Devorah Heitner

256. Social Justice Parenting with Traci Baxley

214. How to Raise Kids Who Aren’t Jerks with Melinda Wenner Moyer

398. Finding Joy in Your Relationship with Money with Elizabeth Husserl

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

What if the ability to negotiate with a hostage-taker was also a skill that could improve relationships in everyday life?

Gary Noesner, who is a former FBI chief negotiator and author of 'Stalling for Time,' which deep dives into his experiences and the lessons he's learned about human nature and effective communication over his 30-year career, joins Yael for this episode.

You’ll hear how patience, empathy, and active listening aren't just crisis tools; they're essential for everyday connection too.

Gary also reflects on the evolution of negotiation tactics, the significance of emotional control, and the value of building genuine relationships.

Resources: 

Stalling for Time: My Life as an FBI Hostage Negotiator

https://garynoesner.com/

Yael’s newsletter post about connecting like a hostage negotiator

Kate Murphy’s book with a profile of Gary: Why Won’t You Listen to Me?

Jamie Holmes’ book with a profile of Gary: Nonsense

Connect with Gary on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gary-noesner-1a2480b

Connect with Gary on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Stalling-for-Time/148979708465038

Connect with Gary on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/garynoesner/?hl=en

Gary Noesner retired from the FBI in 2003 following a 30-year career as an investigator, instructor, and negotiator. A significant focus of his career was directed toward investigating Middle East hijackings in which American citizens were victimized. In addition, he was an FBI hostage negotiator for 23 years of his career, retiring as the Chief of the FBI’s Crisis Negotiation Unit, Critical Incident Response Group, the first person to hold that position. In that capacity, he was heavily involved in numerous crisis incidents covering prison riots, right-wing militia standoffs, religious zealot sieges, terrorist embassy takeovers, airplane hijackings, and over 120 overseas kidnapping cases involving American citizens.

He has written a book about his FBI negotiation career, which was published by Penguin Random House in 2010, entitled Stalling for Time: My Life as an FBI Hostage Negotiator.    The book is being used in part as the basis for a six-part mini-series on Waco that will air on the Paramount Network on January 24, 2018.

255. Influence is Your Superpower with Zoe Chance

276. Assertive Communication Skills with Randy Paterson

392. Outraged with Kurt Gray

403. Conflict Resilience with Bob Bordone and Joel Salinas

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Today’s episode is one you’re really going to want to lean into because Michael is talking all about radical listening with Robert V. Biswas-Diener.

If you’ve ever felt like traditional ‘active listening’ just doesn’t cut it, this conversation is going to open your ears and your mind in a whole new way.

They chat about key ideas from Robert and his coauthor Christian Van Nieuwerburgh's book, Radical Listening: The Art of True Connection, such as why traditional active listening often falls short and what it means to really show up for someone through listening with intention, how to adapt your listening style depending on the situation, how culture can shape communication, and why staying curious might be one of the most powerful tools in your toolbox.

This conversation is for anyone who wants to have deeper, more meaningful conversations with friends, coworkers, or anyone you care about!

Listen and Learn:

Resources:

Radical Listening: The Art of True Connection: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9781523007196 Robert's LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/robert-biswas-diener-a860289/

Robert’s websites https://robertdiener.com/ and https://positiveacorn.com/ 

Christian’s website: https://coachonamotorcycle.com/

Parking Cars in America, 1910-1945: A History

https://relationalriffs.substack.com/p/why-listening-is-a-superpower

https://hiddenbrain.org/podcast/are-you-listening/

About Robert Biswas-Diener:

Dr. Robert Biswas-Diener is a researcher, author, and consultant with 75 peer-reviewed academic articles, and he has over 27,000 citations. 

His previous books include The Upside Of Your Dark Side (New York Times bestseller, 2014) and the 2007 prose award winner, Happiness. 

He has presented keynotes to Lululemon, Deloitte, Humana, AARP, The World Bank, and others. 

In 2024, Thinkers50 named Robert one of the “50 most influential executive coaches in the world”. 

He lives in Portland, Oregon, enjoying drawing and rock climbing.

Related Episodes:

393. Supercommunicators with Charles Duhigg

353. Ask Great Questions with Jeff Wetzler

360. The Laws of Connection with David Robson

191. Conversations that Connect with AJ Harbinger

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Leadership so often comes with the pressure to appear strong, composed, and endlessly capable, but that version of leadership is no longer serving us. In this episode, Debbie sits down with Patricia Grabarek and Katina Sawyer, co-authors of Leading for Wellness, for a meaningful conversation about redefining leadership through the lens of wellness, authenticity, and vulnerability. 

They share why it’s time to move beyond outdated ideals of stoicism and perfection and how embracing a more human-centered approach, through genuine connection, clear boundaries, and flexible team cultures, can lead to healthier, more productive workplaces. With real-life examples and research-backed insights, Patricia and Katina offer practical strategies leaders can use to show up more fully, support their teams more deeply, and lead with intention and care.

How toxic workplaces don’t just harm employees, they drain communities, profits, and society as a whole

How small acts of support from “generator” leaders can spark workplace wellness, even in hard times

Can embracing authenticity over outdated leadership norms help teams connect, grow, and stay human?

Why showing vulnerability and owning mistakes builds trust, safety, and real connection in leadership

Building emotionally honest, flexible team cultures without slipping into toxic positivity

How humane leaders bend rigid rules and protect their teams without crossing ethical lines

The ways leaders break toxic overwork cycles and build teams that thrive without being always on

Leading for Wellness: How to Create a Team Culture Where Everyone Thrives: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9781394292011Connect with Patricia Grabarek and Katina Sawyer on social media:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/patriciagrabarek/ 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/katina-sawyer-ph-d/ 

https://www.linkedin.com/company/workrbeeing/ 

https://www.instagram.com/workrbeeing/

https://www.instagram.com/patriciagrabarek/

Patricia Grabarek and Katina Sawyer are co-founders of Workr Beeing, and coauthor of Leading for Wellness: How to Create a Team Culture Where Everyone Thrives.

Patricia Grabarek, Ph.D., is a seasoned industrial and organizational psychologist specializing in workplace wellness, organizational culture, employee engagement, diversity and inclusion, and leadership development. With a background in both consulting and internal roles, Dr. Grabarek has led people analytics and talent management initiatives for more than 60 organizations across various industries. Her work focuses on research-based strategies to improve well-being, retention, performance, and diversity efforts. She holds a Ph.D. and MS in industrial/organizational psychology from Penn State and a B.A. in Psychology from UCLA.

Katina Sawyer, Ph.D., is an industrial and organizational psychologist and an Associate Professor of Management and Organizations at the University of Arizona’s Eller College of Management. A leading expert in work-life balance, leadership, positive workplace behaviors, and diversity, she has published more than 50 peer-reviewed studies, book chapters, and articles in outlets such as Harvard Business Review. She holds a B.A. in psychology from Villanova University and a dual Ph.D. and M.S. in industrial and organizational psychology and women’s studies from Penn State.

338. ACT for Burnout with Debbie! 

265. The Power of Emotions at Work with Karla McLaren 

299. Leadership and the Changing Workplace with Chris Shipley 

378. The Happy High Achiever with Mary Anderson

357. Is Your Work Worth It? How to Think About Meaningful Work with Jennifer Tosti-Kharas and Christopher Wong Michaelson

290. Shared Sisterhood: Collective Action for Racial and Gender Equity at Work with Tina Opie and Beth Livingston 

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Constantly battling that harsh inner voice that tells you you're not enough, that you’ll never measure up?

It can feel like this voice is always lurking, trying to undermine your confidence and making it so much harder to move forward. The good news is that you can change your internal narrative.

For this episode, Jill welcomes Shawn Costello Woolley and Holly Yates, coauthors of The Inner Critic Workbook, a fantastic resource that helps you transform your inner critic into a supportive, empowering voice.

You’ll understand how shame fuels negative self-talk, but more importantly, how self-compassion, mindfulness, and connecting with shared humanity can help you to quiet your critic and start building a kinder, more confident inner dialogue.

Listen and Learn:

How your inner critic often sabotages your path toward what matters to you most

Why your inner critic exists, how it hijacks your progress, and the ways it holds you back in life

Is your inner critic pushing you to avoid discomfort, keeping you from the meaningful things you crave?

Why self-compassion isn’t about letting yourself off the hook

Why attempting to replace your inner critic with positivity frequently fails, and what works instead

When your inner critic speaks, does it close doors or point you in the direction of values you care about?

Using the CARE method for growth to turn your inner critic into a compassionate coach

How shame isolates you, but sharing struggles helps you connect and turns our inner critic into a coach

Transforming self-criticism into compassion by speaking to yourself the way you would to a friend

Stepping back from your thoughts and reacting intentionally, not just based on emotional interpretations

How observing your thoughts and actions in the present moment can help clarify your values and guide your choices

Resources:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/holly-yates-8a8055321

https://www.instagram.com/holly.yates.healing/

https://www.instagram.com/shawncostello19/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/shawn-costello-whooley-psyd-b181294

385. Oliver Burkeman on Embracing Your Limitations

346. Self-compassion Daily Journal with Diana Hill

341. Self-Forgiveness with Grant Dewar

301. Seven Daily ACT Practices for Living Fully with Diana Hill and Debbie Sorensen

201. Fierce Compassion with Kristin Neff

147. Extending Compassion with Janina Scarlet and Sara Schairer

145. Caring, Compassion, and Cooperation with Paul Gilbert

75. Mindful Self-Compassion with Christopher Germer

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.