The Exit Five Podcast

By Exit FiveBusiness Entrepreneurship Marketing

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Typical duration
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per episode

Based on Podcast App listening data

The Exit Five Podcast episodes

April 21, 2025How To Measure Your Marketing Efforts (And Why Click Attribution Is Dead)
#239: Measurement | In this Exit Five live session, Dave sits down with Pranav Piyush, Co-Founder & CEO of Paramark (ex-PayPal, Dropbox, Adobe, BILL), to talk about the future of B2B marketing measurement.
Spoiler alert: it’s not clicks.
They break down why the old way of doing attribution doesn’t cut it anymore and why leading B2B teams are shifting toward incrementality, experimentation, and marketing mix modeling.
Dave and Pranav also cover:
The gaps in the old way of doing attribution
What the best B2B marketing teams are doing now for attribution
The key questions CMOs face from boards and execs about measurement
Three things you can do this quarter to improve your measurement
Timestamps
(00:00) - – Intro to Pranav
(03:00) - – The Purple Cow mindset: why differentiation matters more than ever
(04:40) - – Pranav’s background (PayPal, Dropbox, Adobe, BILL → Paramark)
(05:45) - – “Measurement is Robin. Creative is Batman.”
(07:00) - – Why click/touch attribution is flawed and misleading
(10:30) - – The 95/5 rule: most of your audience isn’t in-market…yet
(13:15) - – How top brands (Asana, DoorDash, P&G) measure beyond attribution
(14:40) - – What is incrementality and why it’s more useful than attribution
(17:00) - – Why revenue isn’t always the right KPI - especially in long sales cycles
(19:00) - – Intro to marketing mix modeling (MMM) and how it works
(21:00) - – Visualizing baseline vs. incremental impact on pipeline
(22:15) - – Geo testing: how to prove a channel’s impact without attribution tools
(24:15) - – The branded search trap: why you should test turning it off
(26:45) - – Even Meta, Google, LinkedIn admit attribution is flawed
(27:30) - – How to measure untrackable stuff (organic, content, social)
(31:00) - – Why “credit” kills performance
(32:50) - – Measurement for startups
(35:45) - – What to do if all you track is closed-won revenue
(37:30) - – Why attribution software is overkill under $100K in spend
(38:45) - – Should you ask “How did you hear about us?”
(41:30) - – How to carve out budget for channel testing
(44:10) - – Don’t skip audience research
(47:30) - – Creativity is still your #1 growth lever (measurement just supports it)
(49:00) - – Wrap-up and final takeaways
Join 50,0000 people who get Dave's Newsletter here: https://www.exitfive.com/newsletter
Learn more about Exit Five's private marketing community: https://www.exitfive.com/

***

Brought to you by:
Zoom Webinars & Events – The virtual event platform built to help B2B marketers run webinars that actually drive pipeline, with branded registration pages, live engagement features, and built-in tools to repurpose sessions into clips and content. Learn more at zoom.com/exitfive.
Convertiv - A B2B marketing agency that helps enterprise teams build an AI-powered go-to-market strategy, specializing in AEO. Podcast listeners get a free AI search review showing how you stack up against competitors. Learn more at convertiv.com/exitfive.
Optimizely - the AI platform for marketers. Build your own AI agents or pull from a directory of 50+ pre-built ones for marketing use cases. Their new Virtual Teammates can join meetings, complete tasks, support campaigns, and keep your website optimized. Learn more at optimizely.com/exitfive.
Compound Growth Marketing - A full-funnel demand gen agency helping high-growth cybersecurity and enterprise software companies show up earlier in the buying journey, combining AEO, modern paid advertising, and a dedicated go-to-market engineering team. Podcast listeners get two free media planning sessions to find out what channels are driving the best ROI. Learn more at compoundgrowthmarketing.com/exitfive.
Customer.io - An AI powered customer engagement platform that help marketers turn first-party data into engaging customer experiences across email, SMS, and push. Learn more at customer.io/exitfive.
***

Thanks to my friends at hatch.fm for producing this episode and handling all of the Exit Five podcast production.
They give you unlimited podcast editing and strategy for your B2B podcast.
Get unlimited podcast editing and on-demand strategy for one low monthly cost. Just upload your episode, and they take care of the rest.
Visit hatch.fm to learn more
52 min
April 17, 2025How to Stop The Busywork in B2B Marketing (with Dmitry Shamis)
#238: Brand | In this episode, Dave sits down with Dmitry Shamis, former Head of Brand at HubSpot and now founder of Oh Snap, to talk about what brand really means in B2B and why so many teams are stuck doing busy work instead of meaningful marketing. After leading a team of 150+ creatives and scaling HubSpot’s brand across multiple products, Dmitry shares lessons on building brands that actually stand out.
Dave and Dmitry cover:
How to stand out in a crowded market
How to develop and refine your point of view
Why marketers get lost in busy work and how to stop it
What to look for when hiring great designers
The role of AI in B2B marketing today (and what it won’t replace)
Timestamps
(00:00) - – Intro to Dmitry
(04:00) - – What brand actually means in B2B
(06:20) - – Why your POV is the foundation of your brand
(08:30) - – How to uncover a real, differentiated POV
(12:29) - – How to stand out in a crowded, same-sounding market
(15:04) - – Why differentiation requires alignment between product and marketing
(17:54) - – Building trust with product teams
(18:43) - – Busy work in marketing: how to spot it and stop it
(21:25) - – Why marketers burn out and how poor prioritization is killing teams
(24:25) - – Making the case for brand work when it’s hard to measure
(26:00) - – The “fishing” analogy: performance vs brand marketing
(30:31) - – The real opportunity with AI in B2B marketing
(34:30) - – How AI can eliminate bottlenecks and speed up creative execution
(36:00) - – Why Dmitry’s starting a creative agency (Oh Snap) and how it’s different
(39:08) - – How to hire great designers: what to look for beyond the portfolio
Join 50,0000 people who get Dave's Newsletter here: https://www.exitfive.com/newsletter
Learn more about Exit Five's private marketing community: https://www.exitfive.com/

***

Brought to you by:
Zoom Webinars & Events – The virtual event platform built to help B2B marketers run webinars that actually drive pipeline, with branded registration pages, live engagement features, and built-in tools to repurpose sessions into clips and content. Learn more at zoom.com/exitfive.
Convertiv - A B2B marketing agency that helps enterprise teams build an AI-powered go-to-market strategy, specializing in AEO. Podcast listeners get a free AI search review showing how you stack up against competitors. Learn more at convertiv.com/exitfive.
Optimizely - the AI platform for marketers. Build your own AI agents or pull from a directory of 50+ pre-built ones for marketing use cases. Their new Virtual Teammates can join meetings, complete tasks, support campaigns, and keep your website optimized. Learn more at optimizely.com/exitfive.
Compound Growth Marketing - A full-funnel demand gen agency helping high-growth cybersecurity and enterprise software companies show up earlier in the buying journey, combining AEO, modern paid advertising, and a dedicated go-to-market engineering team. Podcast listeners get two free media planning sessions to find out what channels are driving the best ROI. Learn more at compoundgrowthmarketing.com/exitfive.
Customer.io - An AI powered customer engagement platform that help marketers turn first-party data into engaging customer experiences across email, SMS, and push. Learn more at customer.io/exitfive.
***

Thanks to my friends at hatch.fm for producing this episode and handling all of the Exit Five podcast production.
They give you unlimited podcast editing and strategy for your B2B podcast.
Get unlimited podcast editing and on-demand strategy for one low monthly cost. Just upload your episode, and they take care of the rest.
Visit hatch.fm to learn more
43 min
April 14, 2025B2B Doesn't Have to Be Boring with Udi Ledergor, Chief Evangelist at Gong
#237: Strategy | Udi Ledergor (former CMO, now Chief Evangelist at Gong) helped turn Gong into one of B2B’s most iconic brands—and now he’s sharing how they scaled it to a multi-billion dollar valuation. In this episode, Dave sits down with Udi to unpack lessons from building Gong’s category, brand, and marketing engine (and why B2B marketing needs way more courage).

You’ll learn:
Lessons from building Gong from 0 to $100M in revenue
How to make B2B marketing not boring
How to measure and justify brand investments in marketing
Why you need to be more courageous with your marketing
Udi also shares stories from his new book Courageous Marketing, featuring specific plays and strategies any B2B marketer can steal.
Timestamps
(00:00) - – Intro to Udi
(06:00) - – Early career lessons and building a marketing role from scratch
(09:00) - – How Gong achieved early product-market fit
(13:00) - – The importance of picking the right company and founder
(15:00) - – Why Gong’s focus, clarity, and positioning stood out from day one
(17:10) - – Why Udi wrote Courageous Marketing and what it’s about
(18:00) - – What “courageous marketing” actually means
(21:00) - – Defining brand personality before visual identity
(23:40) - – Campaign breakdown: Times Square billboards, employee spotlights, and perception hacks
(27:00) - – The “punching above your weight” formula for early-stage brands
(30:30) - – How to measure soft ROI and prove brand impact
(34:00) - – Super Bowl ad, Michael Lewis podcast, and tying brand to pipeline
(38:45) - – How to budget for experiments and get CFO/CEO buy-in
(40:00) - – Building a courageous team: culture, process, and psychological safety
(43:00) - – Gong Labs: Turning product data into content with staying power
(46:00) - – Product + marketing alignment: the real unlock
(47:30) - – Where AI fits in the future of courageous marketing
(49:50) - – Udi’s book Courageous Marketing (and why you should go read it)
Join 50,0000 people who get Dave's Newsletter here: https://www.exitfive.com/newsletter
Learn more about Exit Five's private marketing community: https://www.exitfive.com/

***

Brought to you by:
Zoom Webinars & Events – The virtual event platform built to help B2B marketers run webinars that actually drive pipeline, with branded registration pages, live engagement features, and built-in tools to repurpose sessions into clips and content. Learn more at zoom.com/exitfive.
Convertiv - A B2B marketing agency that helps enterprise teams build an AI-powered go-to-market strategy, specializing in AEO. Podcast listeners get a free AI search review showing how you stack up against competitors. Learn more at convertiv.com/exitfive.
Optimizely - the AI platform for marketers. Build your own AI agents or pull from a directory of 50+ pre-built ones for marketing use cases. Their new Virtual Teammates can join meetings, complete tasks, support campaigns, and keep your website optimized. Learn more at optimizely.com/exitfive.
Compound Growth Marketing - A full-funnel demand gen agency helping high-growth cybersecurity and enterprise software companies show up earlier in the buying journey, combining AEO, modern paid advertising, and a dedicated go-to-market engineering team. Podcast listeners get two free media planning sessions to find out what channels are driving the best ROI. Learn more at compoundgrowthmarketing.com/exitfive.
Customer.io - An AI powered customer engagement platform that help marketers turn first-party data into engaging customer experiences across email, SMS, and push. Learn more at customer.io/exitfive.
***

Thanks to my friends at hatch.fm for producing this episode and handling all of the Exit Five podcast production.
They give you unlimited podcast editing and strategy for your B2B podcast.
Get unlimited podcast editing and on-demand strategy for one low monthly cost. Just upload your episode, and they take care of the rest.
Visit hatch.fm to learn more
53 min
April 10, 2025The Role of Product Marketing in B2B: Strategies, Tools, and Metrics for Success
#236: Product Marketing | Product marketers are no strangers to change. Whether it’s navigating new responsibilities, proving impact to leadership, or balancing short-term wins with long-term strategy, the role is constantly evolving - and in 2025, that evolution is only accelerating.
This Exit Five Live session is built to help you stay ahead. Dave sits down with Natalie Marcotullio (Head of Growth & Product Marketing at Navattic), Jason Oakley (Founder of Productive PMM), and Eric Holland (Senior PMM at Betterworks and Co-Founder of DemoDash) for a tactical discussion on how to sharpen your skills, adapt to a shifting landscape, and deliver measurable impact.
They cover:
What a successful product marketing function looks like in B2B
Tools, frameworks, and metrics that actually matter
How to align with sales and customer success
Trends to watch in 2025 and beyond
Timestamps
(00:00) - – Intro to Natalie, Jason, and Eric
(02:00) - – Why product marketing is the most important function in B2B marketing
(03:50) - – Defining the role: What should product marketing actually own?
(06:00) - – How PMM impacts revenue, growth, and pipeline
(07:30) - – Differentiation: What it really takes and why most companies get it wrong
(10:00) - – Real examples of effective positioning in crowded markets
(14:30) - – What bad product marketing looks like
(16:00) - – Why PMMs need to market the product more (and not just during launches)
(19:00) - – Launch marketing, momentum, and creating "marketable moments"
(21:00) - – Why PMM charters don’t work - and what to do instead
(23:00) - – How to measure product marketing impact (with or without KPIs)
(29:30) - – Tying assets and enablement to revenue
(31:00) - – Tracking usage without a big tech stack
(34:00) - – Who owns positioning: PMM vs brand?
(36:00) - – How to shine as a PMM in a sales-led org
(40:30) - – The death of one-pagers and what to use instead
(43:00) - – What to look for when hiring a great product marketer
Join 50,0000 people who get Dave's Newsletter here: https://www.exitfive.com/newsletter
Learn more about Exit Five's private marketing community: https://www.exitfive.com/

***

Brought to you by:
Zoom Webinars & Events – The virtual event platform built to help B2B marketers run webinars that actually drive pipeline, with branded registration pages, live engagement features, and built-in tools to repurpose sessions into clips and content. Learn more at zoom.com/exitfive.
Convertiv - A B2B marketing agency that helps enterprise teams build an AI-powered go-to-market strategy, specializing in AEO. Podcast listeners get a free AI search review showing how you stack up against competitors. Learn more at convertiv.com/exitfive.
Optimizely - the AI platform for marketers. Build your own AI agents or pull from a directory of 50+ pre-built ones for marketing use cases. Their new Virtual Teammates can join meetings, complete tasks, support campaigns, and keep your website optimized. Learn more at optimizely.com/exitfive.
Compound Growth Marketing - A full-funnel demand gen agency helping high-growth cybersecurity and enterprise software companies show up earlier in the buying journey, combining AEO, modern paid advertising, and a dedicated go-to-market engineering team. Podcast listeners get two free media planning sessions to find out what channels are driving the best ROI. Learn more at compoundgrowthmarketing.com/exitfive.
Customer.io - An AI powered customer engagement platform that help marketers turn first-party data into engaging customer experiences across email, SMS, and push. Learn more at customer.io/exitfive.
***

Thanks to my friends at hatch.fm for producing this episode and handling all of the Exit Five podcast production.
They give you unlimited podcast editing and strategy for your B2B podcast.
Get unlimited podcast editing and on-demand strategy for one low monthly cost. Just upload your episode, and they take care of the rest.
Visit hatch.fm to learn more
50 min
April 07, 2025The 7 Marketing Metrics Every B2B Leader Should Report On
#235: Strategy |In this episode, Matt sits down with Aditya Vempaty, VP of Marketing at MoEngage, to talk about a topic every marketing leader has wrestled with: reporting on the right metrics. Aditya has led marketing at companies like Nutanix, Amplitude, and Synthego - and he’s learned how to build dashboards and reporting frameworks that actually communicate marketing’s impact across leadership, sales, and finance.
Matt and Aditya cover:
Why marketing metrics should translate performance into a common language the business understands
The four buckets of metrics every B2B team should track
How often you should be reporting on metrics
The exact 7 metrics Aditya uses to report up, down, and across the org
Timestamps
(00:00) - – Intro to Aditya
(02:12) - – Why communicating marketing’s impact is a challenge for many teams
(04:48) - – The importance of using a common language when reporting to leadership
(07:26) - – Breaking marketing metrics into four key buckets
(10:41) - – How pipeline coverage connects marketing to revenue
(13:10) - – Reporting on efficiency: CAC, cost per opportunity, and more
(16:25) - – The role of awareness metrics and how to contextualize them
(19:18) - – How marketing and sales alignment can be measured effectively
(21:47) - – The 7 core marketing metrics Aditya reports on regularly
(25:30) - – How often should marketing be reporting metrics?
(28:14) - – Dashboards, recurring meetings, and what execs actually care about
(31:06) - – Advice for first-time marketing leaders on building reporting habits
(33:20) - – Why clarity beats complexity when it comes to data
(36:02) - – Final thoughts
Join 50,0000 people who get Dave's Newsletter here: https://www.exitfive.com/newsletter
Learn more about Exit Five's private marketing community: https://www.exitfive.com/

***

Brought to you by:
Zoom Webinars & Events – The virtual event platform built to help B2B marketers run webinars that actually drive pipeline, with branded registration pages, live engagement features, and built-in tools to repurpose sessions into clips and content. Learn more at zoom.com/exitfive.
Convertiv - A B2B marketing agency that helps enterprise teams build an AI-powered go-to-market strategy, specializing in AEO. Podcast listeners get a free AI search review showing how you stack up against competitors. Learn more at convertiv.com/exitfive.
Optimizely - the AI platform for marketers. Build your own AI agents or pull from a directory of 50+ pre-built ones for marketing use cases. Their new Virtual Teammates can join meetings, complete tasks, support campaigns, and keep your website optimized. Learn more at optimizely.com/exitfive.
Compound Growth Marketing - A full-funnel demand gen agency helping high-growth cybersecurity and enterprise software companies show up earlier in the buying journey, combining AEO, modern paid advertising, and a dedicated go-to-market engineering team. Podcast listeners get two free media planning sessions to find out what channels are driving the best ROI. Learn more at compoundgrowthmarketing.com/exitfive.
Customer.io - An AI powered customer engagement platform that help marketers turn first-party data into engaging customer experiences across email, SMS, and push. Learn more at customer.io/exitfive.
***

Thanks to my friends at hatch.fm for producing this episode and handling all of the Exit Five podcast production.
They give you unlimited podcast editing and strategy for your B2B podcast.
Get unlimited podcast editing and on-demand strategy for one low monthly cost. Just upload your episode, and they take care of the rest.
Visit hatch.fm to learn more
40 min
April 03, 2025Mastering Messaging, Copy, and Clarity with Emma Stratton
#234: Messaging | In this episode, Dave sits down with Emma Stratton, founder of Punchy, to break down what great B2B messaging actually looks like - and how to get it right. Emma has worked with hundreds of B2B tech companies to sharpen their positioning, eliminate vague copy, and train marketing teams to write with clarity and impact. They cover what makes messaging actually resonate and how to spot and fix abstract or weak copy. They also dive into Emma’s process for creating message-market fit, doing customer research, and working with execs and cross-functional teams.
And BONUS: they spend the last 20 minutes talking about personal development, productivity, journaling, and managing your mental energy to be a better marketer (and human).
Dave and Emma also cover:
How to go from vague to punchy by writing with specificity and buyer empathy
Why most B2B messaging falls flat and how to avoid the “sea of sameness”
How to use customer interviews, sales calls, and concrete language to create strong messaging
Why writing, meditation, and personal rituals are so important for creative energy
Timestamps
(00:00) - – Intro to Emma
(03:05) - – What makes B2B messaging actually good
(06:47) - – Common messaging mistakes (and why "clarity > clever")
(09:45) - – Positioning vs. messaging: what’s the difference?
(13:58) - – Why it's hard to name great B2B marketing examples
(16:22) - – How to sharpen weak messaging and fix vague positioning statements
(19:30) - – Simplifying complex products without dumbing it down
(22:40) - – How to write for buyers (not just execs)
(26:12) - – Using customer interviews and research to build strong messaging
(30:50) - – Standing out in a crowded, buzzword-filled market
(33:34) - – How storytelling fits into B2B messaging
(36:40) - – Messaging advice for early-stage founders and startups
(39:55) - – How often should you revisit and update messaging?
(42:05) - – Productivity, managing your energy, and staying focused
(45:20) - – Journaling, mindfulness, and being intentional with your time
(49:15) - – Final takeaways
Join 50,0000 people who get Dave's Newsletter here: https://www.exitfive.com/newsletter
Learn more about Exit Five's private marketing community: https://www.exitfive.com/

***

Brought to you by:
Zoom Webinars & Events – The virtual event platform built to help B2B marketers run webinars that actually drive pipeline, with branded registration pages, live engagement features, and built-in tools to repurpose sessions into clips and content. Learn more at zoom.com/exitfive.
Convertiv - A B2B marketing agency that helps enterprise teams build an AI-powered go-to-market strategy, specializing in AEO. Podcast listeners get a free AI search review showing how you stack up against competitors. Learn more at convertiv.com/exitfive.
Optimizely - the AI platform for marketers. Build your own AI agents or pull from a directory of 50+ pre-built ones for marketing use cases. Their new Virtual Teammates can join meetings, complete tasks, support campaigns, and keep your website optimized. Learn more at optimizely.com/exitfive.
Compound Growth Marketing - A full-funnel demand gen agency helping high-growth cybersecurity and enterprise software companies show up earlier in the buying journey, combining AEO, modern paid advertising, and a dedicated go-to-market engineering team. Podcast listeners get two free media planning sessions to find out what channels are driving the best ROI. Learn more at compoundgrowthmarketing.com/exitfive.
Customer.io - An AI powered customer engagement platform that help marketers turn first-party data into engaging customer experiences across email, SMS, and push. Learn more at customer.io/exitfive.
***

Thanks to my friends at hatch.fm for producing this episode and handling all of the Exit Five podcast production.
They give you unlimited podcast editing and strategy for your B2B podcast.
Get unlimited podcast editing and on-demand strategy for one low monthly cost. Just upload your episode, and they take care of the rest.
Visit hatch.fm to learn more
50 min
March 31, 2025Inside Exit Five: How We Doubled Community Growth in Under a Year (with Matt Carnevale)
#233: Inside Exit Five | In this episode, Matt Carnevale (Head of Community at Exit Five) joins the team at Circle to break down how we’ve doubled Exit Five community membership and boosted engagement—all by treating Exit Five like a product. He shares our playbook: audience growth, engagement systems, how we use member feedback to shape what we build, and why “curate, don’t create” has been key to scaling. If you’re running (or joining) a B2B community, this is how you make it work.
Matt covers:
Why we think of community like a product, not just a channel
How Exit Five grew community membership over 100% in under a year
The systems we use to drive 40% monthly active user engagement
The power of “tripwires,” onboarding, and member matchmaking
How feedback loops shape what we build
Timestamps
(00:00) - – Intro to Matt
(02:30) - – Exit Five’s approach to community
(05:00) - – What it means to treat community like a product
(09:00) - – Why audience is the foundation of community growth
(12:00) - – How Exit Five builds and converts audience from LinkedIn
(15:00) - – Using content tripwires to drive signups
(17:00) - – Offers that work: Why we use a 7-day free trial
(20:00) - – How Exit Five got started as a paid community
(23:00) - – The product mindset: build, test, iterate
(26:00) - – Using member feedback to drive product decisions
(28:00) - – Real example: member matchmaking feature
(30:00) - – Promoting new community features like product launches
(33:00) - – How we drive 40% monthly active usage
(35:00) - – The value of member-led events and how we do them
(38:00) - – Other plays: tagging experts, matchmaking, onboarding
(41:00) - – Why self-promo was hurting our community and what changed when we cut it
(43:00) - – Final takeaways + advice for small communities
(47:00) - – Audience Q&A: re-engagement, matchmaking, content cadence
Join 50,0000 people who get Dave's Newsletter here: https://www.exitfive.com/newsletter
Learn more about Exit Five's private marketing community: https://www.exitfive.com/

***

Brought to you by:
Zoom Webinars & Events – The virtual event platform built to help B2B marketers run webinars that actually drive pipeline, with branded registration pages, live engagement features, and built-in tools to repurpose sessions into clips and content. Learn more at zoom.com/exitfive.
Convertiv - A B2B marketing agency that helps enterprise teams build an AI-powered go-to-market strategy, specializing in AEO. Podcast listeners get a free AI search review showing how you stack up against competitors. Learn more at convertiv.com/exitfive.
Optimizely - the AI platform for marketers. Build your own AI agents or pull from a directory of 50+ pre-built ones for marketing use cases. Their new Virtual Teammates can join meetings, complete tasks, support campaigns, and keep your website optimized. Learn more at optimizely.com/exitfive.
Compound Growth Marketing - A full-funnel demand gen agency helping high-growth cybersecurity and enterprise software companies show up earlier in the buying journey, combining AEO, modern paid advertising, and a dedicated go-to-market engineering team. Podcast listeners get two free media planning sessions to find out what channels are driving the best ROI. Learn more at compoundgrowthmarketing.com/exitfive.
Customer.io - An AI powered customer engagement platform that help marketers turn first-party data into engaging customer experiences across email, SMS, and push. Learn more at customer.io/exitfive.
***

Thanks to my friends at hatch.fm for producing this episode and handling all of the Exit Five podcast production.
They give you unlimited podcast editing and strategy for your B2B podcast.
Get unlimited podcast editing and on-demand strategy for one low monthly cost. Just upload your episode, and they take care of the rest.
Visit hatch.fm to learn more
58 min
March 27, 2025How Marketers Can Be Better Partners with Sales (with Jen Allen-Knuth)
#232: Sales | Dave sits down with Jen Allen-Knuth, founder of DemandJen. Jen shares her insights from her 15+ years in B2B Sales, from managing a quota to building great working relationships with marketing.
Jen and Dave cover:
Co-creating content with Marketing and Sales that drives better customer engagement and grows your pipeline
How Jen successfully built her audience using video on LinkedIn and leveraged it to start DemandJen
How companies should focus on genuine diversity efforts rather than superficial inclusivity
Timestamps
(00:00) - – Intro to Jen
(06:10) - – Why you should have a mentor and how to get one
(08:00) - – Sales experiences and becoming a Chief Evangelist
(11:31) - – Making the leap from side hustle to full-time
(15:58) - – Why your career experiences should be diverse
(19:22) - – The shallow impact of diversity panels
(23:26) - – How Jen built her personal brand
(26:47) - – Creating unscripted content that’s still clear
(30:19) - – Being authentic in marketing
(35:14) - – Don’t use templates for customer conversations
(41:36) - – Strong relationships between product marketing and sales
(42:23) - – Being customer-centric
(47:45) - – Why you need to be a good storyteller
(49:34) - – Challenges of data analysis
Join 50,0000 people who get Dave's Newsletter here: https://www.exitfive.com/newsletter
Learn more about Exit Five's private marketing community: https://www.exitfive.com/

***

Brought to you by:
Zoom Webinars & Events – The virtual event platform built to help B2B marketers run webinars that actually drive pipeline, with branded registration pages, live engagement features, and built-in tools to repurpose sessions into clips and content. Learn more at zoom.com/exitfive.
Convertiv - A B2B marketing agency that helps enterprise teams build an AI-powered go-to-market strategy, specializing in AEO. Podcast listeners get a free AI search review showing how you stack up against competitors. Learn more at convertiv.com/exitfive.
Optimizely - the AI platform for marketers. Build your own AI agents or pull from a directory of 50+ pre-built ones for marketing use cases. Their new Virtual Teammates can join meetings, complete tasks, support campaigns, and keep your website optimized. Learn more at optimizely.com/exitfive.
Compound Growth Marketing - A full-funnel demand gen agency helping high-growth cybersecurity and enterprise software companies show up earlier in the buying journey, combining AEO, modern paid advertising, and a dedicated go-to-market engineering team. Podcast listeners get two free media planning sessions to find out what channels are driving the best ROI. Learn more at compoundgrowthmarketing.com/exitfive.
Customer.io - An AI powered customer engagement platform that help marketers turn first-party data into engaging customer experiences across email, SMS, and push. Learn more at customer.io/exitfive.
***

Thanks to my friends at hatch.fm for producing this episode and handling all of the Exit Five podcast production.
They give you unlimited podcast editing and strategy for your B2B podcast.
Get unlimited podcast editing and on-demand strategy for one low monthly cost. Just upload your episode, and they take care of the rest.
Visit hatch.fm to learn more
51 min
March 24, 2025We Audited 100+ B2B Websites – Here's What We Learned (with Talia Wolf)
#230: Messaging | In this episode, Matt sits down with Talia Wolf, founder and CEO of GetUplift, to unpack what’s really wrong with most B2B websites – and how to fix it. After reviewing 100+ member-submitted sites from the Exit Five community, Talia shares what she sees over and over again: messaging that’s too focused on the product, poor design flow, and a lack of real customer understanding.
Matt and Talia cover:
Why most B2B sites focus too much on features and not enough on buyer emotion
How to use emotional targeting and customer research to write copy that converts
The biggest design mistakes B2B marketers are making (and how to fix them)
How to get stakeholder buy-in for website changes
Why great websites start with strong product marketing
Timestamps
(00:00) - – Intro to Talia
(02:04) - – Why most B2B websites fail to convert
(04:30) - – The common thread across 100+ website reviews from Exit Five members
(07:15) - – Why focusing on features instead of emotion kills conversions
(10:03) - – What is emotional targeting (and how to actually use it)?
(13:18) - – The power of customer research in website optimization
(16:40) - – How to apply emotional triggers to your homepage copy
(20:09) - – Mistakes B2B companies make with above-the-fold content
(23:11) - – Why you should write copy before designing the site
(26:28) - – Structuring your site around buyer intent and behavior
(29:45) - – How to get internal buy-in for messaging and UX changes
(33:02) - – The difference between product marketing and “just copywriting”
(36:18) - – The role of hierarchy, visual flow, and CTA placement
(39:44) - – When to simplify and when to educate on B2B websites
(43:06) - – Final takeaways and practical steps to start improving your site
Join 50,0000 people who get Dave's Newsletter here: https://www.exitfive.com/newsletter
Learn more about Exit Five's private marketing community: https://www.exitfive.com/

***

Brought to you by:
Zoom Webinars & Events – The virtual event platform built to help B2B marketers run webinars that actually drive pipeline, with branded registration pages, live engagement features, and built-in tools to repurpose sessions into clips and content. Learn more at zoom.com/exitfive.
Convertiv - A B2B marketing agency that helps enterprise teams build an AI-powered go-to-market strategy, specializing in AEO. Podcast listeners get a free AI search review showing how you stack up against competitors. Learn more at convertiv.com/exitfive.
Optimizely - the AI platform for marketers. Build your own AI agents or pull from a directory of 50+ pre-built ones for marketing use cases. Their new Virtual Teammates can join meetings, complete tasks, support campaigns, and keep your website optimized. Learn more at optimizely.com/exitfive.
Compound Growth Marketing - A full-funnel demand gen agency helping high-growth cybersecurity and enterprise software companies show up earlier in the buying journey, combining AEO, modern paid advertising, and a dedicated go-to-market engineering team. Podcast listeners get two free media planning sessions to find out what channels are driving the best ROI. Learn more at compoundgrowthmarketing.com/exitfive.
Customer.io - An AI powered customer engagement platform that help marketers turn first-party data into engaging customer experiences across email, SMS, and push. Learn more at customer.io/exitfive.
***

Thanks to my friends at hatch.fm for producing this episode and handling all of the Exit Five podcast production.
They give you unlimited podcast editing and strategy for your B2B podcast.
Get unlimited podcast editing and on-demand strategy for one low monthly cost. Just upload your episode, and they take care of the rest.
Visit hatch.fm to learn more
50 min
March 20, 2025Inside the Minds of Top CMOs: What’s Working, What’s Not, and How the CMO Role is Evolving in B2B Marketing
#229: Marketing Leadership | In this episode, Dave sits down with Megan Lueders (CMO at Sonatype), Ido Mart (CMO at Manychat), and Kimberly Storin (CMO at Zayo) for a live CMO panel discussion at Exit Five’s Austin marketing meetup. These marketing leaders share what’s working what’s not in B2B marketing today and how the role of the CMO is evolving.
Dave, Megan, Ido, and Kimberly cover:
What every new CMO needs to know about leading a marketing org
How to align with CEOs, CFOs, and key stakeholders to drive business impact
The biggest marketing shifts happening right now (and what’s no longer working)
How to prove marketing’s impact in the era of efficiency
Timestamps
(00:00) - – Introduction to the CMO panel
(02:12) - – The evolving role of the CMO in 2025
(05:38) - – The biggest challenges marketing leaders face today
(08:45) - – How to align marketing with CEOs, CFOs, and key stakeholders
(12:20) - – What every new CMO needs to know when stepping into the role
(15:55) - – The marketing strategies that are working right now (and what’s not)
(19:42) - – Why B2B marketing is more emotional than most people realize
(23:08) - – How to prove marketing’s impact in a data-driven, efficiency-focused era
(26:50) - – The shift from demand gen to brand-led growth
(30:15) - – The role of storytelling and positioning in B2B marketing success
(34:30) - – Building a high-performing marketing team and the skills CMOs need today
(38:10) - – Key takeaways and final advice for marketing leaders
Join 50,0000 people who get Dave's Newsletter here: https://www.exitfive.com/newsletter
Learn more about Exit Five's private marketing community: https://www.exitfive.com/

***

Brought to you by:
Zoom Webinars & Events – The virtual event platform built to help B2B marketers run webinars that actually drive pipeline, with branded registration pages, live engagement features, and built-in tools to repurpose sessions into clips and content. Learn more at zoom.com/exitfive.
Convertiv - A B2B marketing agency that helps enterprise teams build an AI-powered go-to-market strategy, specializing in AEO. Podcast listeners get a free AI search review showing how you stack up against competitors. Learn more at convertiv.com/exitfive.
Optimizely - the AI platform for marketers. Build your own AI agents or pull from a directory of 50+ pre-built ones for marketing use cases. Their new Virtual Teammates can join meetings, complete tasks, support campaigns, and keep your website optimized. Learn more at optimizely.com/exitfive.
Compound Growth Marketing - A full-funnel demand gen agency helping high-growth cybersecurity and enterprise software companies show up earlier in the buying journey, combining AEO, modern paid advertising, and a dedicated go-to-market engineering team. Podcast listeners get two free media planning sessions to find out what channels are driving the best ROI. Learn more at compoundgrowthmarketing.com/exitfive.
Customer.io - An AI powered customer engagement platform that help marketers turn first-party data into engaging customer experiences across email, SMS, and push. Learn more at customer.io/exitfive.
***

Thanks to my friends at hatch.fm for producing this episode and handling all of the Exit Five podcast production.
They give you unlimited podcast editing and strategy for your B2B podcast.
Get unlimited podcast editing and on-demand strategy for one low monthly cost. Just upload your episode, and they take care of the rest.
Visit hatch.fm to learn more
58 min

About The Exit Five Podcast

From the publisher's feed

The #1 resource for B2B marketing professionals. Each week, hosts Dave Gerhardt and Dasha Shakov sit down with B2B marketers to break down everything from strategy and leadership to the channels and tactics that drive growth, plus what it takes to build a career in marketing. You'll find real ideas you can put to work right away, and the gut check and inspiration to keep getting better at your job.